Thailand's left-hand traffic 'impedes integration'

[Jay Sata]

Thai's drive left right and centre plus every other combination on the road so where is the problem.

Foreign drivers appear to see it as a challenge and part of the fun of being here.

When they return to their home country they never complain about other drivers again.

[wilcopops]

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced the Burma should change back to driving on the left of the road.

I agree... especially since the entire swath of countries there were British-colonised and so are all RHD-left of road. Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, Myanmar, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore in one long stretch would be all RHD-left of road if Myanmar would just switch back.

But what are the odds of it happening...

I wouldn't want to give odds, but as ASEAN draws closer, some may consider it justifiable. I'm sure that some Thai ministers would love the idea.

Edited March 14, 2014 by wilcopops

[build6]

I wouldn't want to give odds, but as ASEAN draws closer, some may consider it justifiable. I'm sure that some Thai ministers would love the idea.

realistically only Myanmar has the option of changing. Because every other country has too large an installed base of cars and RHD/LHD is fixed. Only Myanmar has in fact still got the majority of cars with the "wrong" orientation, AND doesn't have that many cars ultimately.

I do not believe Thailand could switch over. Too much installed base.

Edited March 14, 2014 by build6

[Thongkorn]

They will probably start off with wagons Driving on the right, Then the week after all the cars.

[englishoak]

Myanmar might drive on the right but all their vehicles are right hand drive, you get off the bus you do so straight into the the road and not the pavement.

[pb1936]

Of course trading and integration with the Asean community has nothing to do with which side of the road is used.....

The proposal that Thailand changes has been made by someone of such low intelligence that he is unable to comprehend the real issues.

[Jay Sata]

Myanmar might drive on the right but all their vehicles are right hand drive, you get off the bus you do so straight into the the road and not the pavement.

They only changed over in 1970 and I suspect a lot of Thai vehicles have been imported during the intervening years .

Incidentally this makes good reading?

The Geneva Convention on Road Traffic (1949)[15] has been ratified by 95 countries[16] and requires each ratifying country to have a uniform direction of traffic in the country. Article 9(1) provides that -

All vehicular traffic proceeding in the same direction on any road shall keep to the same side of the road, which shall be uniform in each country for all roads. Domestic regulations concerning one-way traffic shall not be affected.

It's a pity Thai drivers have never read that.

[wilcopops]

I wouldn't want to give odds, but as ASEAN draws closer, some may consider it justifiable. I'm sure that some Thai ministers would love the idea.

realistically only Myanmar has the option of changing. Because every other country has too large an installed base of cars and RHD/LHD is fixed. Only Myanmar has in fact still got the majority of cars with the "wrong" orientation, AND doesn't have that many cars ultimately.

I do not believe Thailand could switch over. Too much installed base.

That's what I just said.

[wilcopops]

Myanmar might drive on the right but all their vehicles are right hand drive, you get off the bus you do so straight into the the road and not the pavement.

Already been noted.

[wilcopops]

Now there's a thought.......

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/01/scotland-driving-on-right-independence-road-scheme?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

[taotoo]

What's the date today?

[MW72]

Now there's a thought.......

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/01/scotland-driving-on-right-independence-road-scheme?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

Almost as good as the Pattaya poll booth story.

[3NUMBAS]

imagine a potential changeover ,some would and some wouldnt comply 5555

[Tomtomtom69]

What absolute drivel. First of all, I thought this was another April Fool's Joke, like the one made last year on the same topic but then I checked when the article was originally posted.

Currently plenty of Thai trucks enter Laos (which drives on the right) and go all over Laos to transport goods. I don't see any need to offload goods at the border (which isn't done anyway, certainly not at the Lao border) or why driving with the steering wheel on the "wrong" side is any impediment at all. Why should Thailand change? Why wouldn't Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam change? They have very little infrastructure compared to Thailand, fewer signs to swap, fewer on/off ramps that lend themselves to a particular direction (in Cambodia and Laos there are basically no such roads/junctions etc. that I can think of anyway). Very, very few multi-lane roads exist in any of these countries, except for a few stretches near Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam. Surely it would be a lot easier for those countries to change to the left than for Thailand to change to the right.

I agree with many of the other posters regarding Myanmar/Burma though. That country should never have changed to driving on the right. Given the possibility of an east-west link between Thailand and India, both of which drive on the left, Myanmar switching back to the left would definitely be a step in the right direction.

As for driving on the same side of the road as China, who cares. That is nonsense anyway. Consider that Vietnam and China both drive on the same side of the road (right) and yet there is barely any cross-border traffic at all, because neither government (especially the Vietnamese government) is going to allow free-flowing cross border traffic. With few exceptions, all goods must be offloaded at the border or 1km across the other country's territory and reloaded onto local vehicles. This despite both countries driving on the right as mentioned. Whereas in Thailand's case with Laos, this does not occur. Similarly a new agreement with Cambodia means that a number of Thai trucks are now allowed to travel all the way to Phnom Penh, but Cambodian trucks don't seem to be allowed into Thailand as I've never seen even one Cambodian truck in Thailand. Then again since Thailand is the more dominant country with a much more extensive infrastructure and larger economy, they should receive more privileges than the Cambodians going the other way round.

Even between Thailand and Laos the vast majority of trade involves Thai trucks. While Lao trucks do enter Thailand, they rarely venture more than about 100km from the border. No Lao truck has ever made it to Bangkok, but Thai trucks regularly travel all the way to the Vietnamese/Chinese borders to offload/pickup goods there. Apparently Thai trucks (provided they are carrying fruit) are even allowed to enter China and travel to Jinghong (this was discussed in the Bangkok Post some years back), although I have only ever seen Lao registered trucks in that part of China, not Thai ones.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[wilcopops]

"No Lao truck has ever made it to Bangkok," - really?

[Tomtomtom69]

Despite all the hub claims that Thailand usually makes, I am surprised by this ridiculous assertion made by this minister that Thailand isn't a logistics hub because it drives on the wrong side. Let me remind the minister and everyone else that Thailand's infrastructure is light years ahead of most of it's neighbors; of it's 4 neighboring countries, only Malaysia is on par.

Neither Laos, Cambodia nor Myanmar have managed to build any decent roads with more than one lane in each direction with the possible exception of Myanmar's north-south expressway, where about 10 vehicles a day crawl along (I've travelled on it and it's empty!) so apart from Laos, which does act as a bit of a logistics hub mainly because it is open to vehicles from all neighboring countries without restriction, Thailand's position is still the best as far as being a logistics hub goes.

[Tomtomtom69]

"No Lao truck has ever made it to Bangkok," - really?

I'm quite certain about that - even Malaysian trucks don't travel as far as Bangkok, though they could. I have seen Lao registered trucks traveling in Nong Khai, Beung Kan, Mukdaharn and Kalasin. But not Bangkok. But when I say trucks I'm talking about semi-trailers not small private vehicles. Private lao pickup "trucks" or utility vehicles have definitely made it to Bangkok - I even drove one to Bangkok back in 2012. It turned at least one head, but it's not that uncommon to see a Lao registered vehicle in Bangkok from time to time. But larger trucks with 6 or more wheels are all Thai registered once they travel further inside Thailand. It could be that the Thais are more efficient and know the way - not only that but Laos' fleet of trucks is small and inefficient. It is much easier for a Thai driver to find his way around undeveloped Laos than a Lao driver to find his way around Thailand with it's wide roads, high speed traffic, overpasses, junctions etc. For the same reasons Chinese trucks travel down to Vientiane or other parts of Laos rather than Lao trucks heading into China (except to Jinghong).

Of course if you've ever seen a Lao registered truck with a registration like "Kampaeng Nakorn" or "ກຳແພງນະຄອນ" in Lao, in Bangkok (or anywhere else unexpected like say southern Thailand or even Nakorn Sawan or somewhere like that) please take a picture and send it to me by PM as that would be a first. I live not far from a major industrial estate and I regularly travel all over Bangkok by car and not once have I seen a foreign registered truck.

[wilcopops]

I guess there is corruption involved - by 2015 this should change.

[Tomtomtom69]

Malaysia drives on the left as does Singapore. Malaysia is a key bordering neighbour, the others are Burma, Laos and Cambodia. in Burma and Cambodia they appear to drive on both sides, not sure about Laos but none of these countries are exactly economic powerhouses whereas Malaysia is.. So why would driving on the left in Thailand present particuliar problems with integration? Is this just another dumb Thai government official shooting his or her mouth off with no logic, evidence or facts to back their claim up? The only real impediment to smooth integration that i see is Thai government officials that often seem totally brain dead.

The trade with Malaysia is less significant than with the other countries. Malaysia is way down the peninsula and borders the contentious border provinces. There is not a huge amount of industry in that area.

The other countries are going to be trading a lot with China and it would be advantageous to drive on the same side as China.

Why a logistic nightmare. Please explain.

Lets assume for a moment an articulated vehicle from country X arrives at the Thai border, the vehicle is marshalled into holding bay, uncoupled and then proceeds to another section of the marshalling yard and recouples to a trailer heading back into country X, the arriving uncoupled trailer is in turn coupled to a prime-mover (left-hand drive for Thailand) and proceeds on its way into Thailand- this is a fairly normal procedure for transport vehicles travelling between England and Europe - in many cases only the trailer is put on the ferry / train for transport across the channel -i.e., dropped on one side and collected on the other side. This is also done in many countries when a trailer is put onto the rail system to be collected at a distant location by an entirely different prime-mover.

It's not rocket science but unfortunately many "experts" haven't a clue regarding freight movements as has been shown here in this thread.

So companies with trucks are just going to turn their goods over to another company in a foreign country? It sounds good on paper, but the insurance, legal problems, delivery deadlines get all messed up when you start this sort of thing. The logistics for that is a huge problem.

You'd be wrong. There is FAR more cross border movement of vehicles between Thailand and Malaysia than between Thailand and Cambodia/Laos or Myanmar. Or between Laos and China for that matter. And it's got nothing to do with the side of the road the two countries drive on, which happens to be the same (left) but rather that both countries are quite liberal when it comes to cross border movement of vehicles and goods and yes there is indeed industry in Malaysia, and in any case a lot of Thai products make it down there. Last time I checked the size of Malaysia's economy was the third largest in ASEAN after Indonesia and Thailand. The size of Laos' and Cambodia's basketcase economies are a far cry from the economic might of Thailand and Malaysia. Even Thailand's economy is only somewhat larger than Malaysia's, not that much larger. In fact, Malaysia's economy is even larger than Singapore's, which is in 4th place, but given the much larger population that's not surprising. Please get your facts right and refer to this article for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ASEAN_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29

Thailand to Laos also features a reasonable amount of cross border traffic despite driving on the opposite sides of the road as each other. That is because both countries honor the GMS cross border agreement signed in 2001? or whenever it was. It seems to be that you guys haven't been to the Thai/Lao border. Neither Thai nor Lao trucks need to unload anything at the border, they simply cross each other's border, that's why all the friendship bridges and other infrastructure was built! Neither the author of the article nor some of the other posters seem to realize this (the trailers are NOT switched at the Thai-Lao border as there's no need!) On the other hand, as I have pointed out before, it doesn't matter to China which side of the road that a neighboring country drives on, because they have so far quite stubbornly refused the transit of foreign registered vehicles, whether commercial or private vehicles into their territory. Therefore, unless China opens up, Laos could just as well drive on the left as it wouldn't matter. The amount of traffic crossing the Lao-Chinese border is a trickle of that crossing even the Lao-Thai borders. And while Lao registered vehicles do enter China, they usually haven't been permitted to go north of Jinghong (except the Laos to Kunming buses) though that could change soon, especially now that a second international border crossing at Muang Kang in Pu'er's Jiangcheng district (opposite Phongsali's Ban Lanteuy township) opened in December 2013, which is further north of Jinghong and closer to Kunming. However, the agreement between Vietnam and China on cross-border traffic is not being honored, neither is there any cross-border movement of vehicles between China and Myanmar, except for Myanmar traffic that is allowed to proceed up to 2km inside China at Jiegao and 10km inside Myanmar at Muse. That's because Muse is a special economic zone, but Chinese trucks and private cars can not leave the special economic zone...to leave a valid Burmese visa for a foreign passenger and a Burmese registered car is required.

Similarly, Myanmar refuses to allow any foreign registered vehicles from any country, including Thailand to travel more than a few km inside it's territory without special permission. Thailand reciprocates and thus no Myanmar trucks can enter Thailand at all, though private vehicles can enter Mae Sot and travel no more than a 10km radius from the border and only during the day (all Burmese vehicles must cross back to the Burmese side at night) or in the case of Mae Sai they are restricted to a similar radius though they seem to be permitted to remain on the Thai side for up to a week or so at a time. At all other checkpoints Burmese vehicles are refused entry altogether, though I did see a Burmese motorcycle at the Three Pagodas Pass once, but probably this was only permitted to travel within a 2-3 km radius and only during the day.

Therefore this whole rhetoric about cross-border traffic is largely hyped up nonsense, particularly since the current situation where Thailand and Laos as well as Thailand and Malaysia have reciprocal agreements to facilitate the movement of goods and vehicles is working quite well. More recent agreements signed between Thailand and Cambodia now allow more streamlined passage of buses and trucks between Bangkok and Siem Reap and Bangkok and Phnom Penh.

Thailand has something like 20 million cars, trucks and buses on it's roads in addition to something like 22 million motorcycles. It is certainly not about to spend billions of dollars, yes billions, to convert all it's infrastructure, including roads, entry/exit ramps on highways and freeways/expressways, road signs, not to mention the cost of converting car steering wheels to the left and the change of assembly lines in it's car factories and driver retraining etc. all for a lot of hype so maybe 3 Lao truck drivers named Suvannapong that might consider driving to Bangkok on the more familiar right hand side of the road (not that they would be prevented from doing so now anyway) or 2 Cambodian truck drivers might do the same. Consider the much higher cost relating to the inconvenience of some 7 million car drivers in Bangkok alone, plus the numerous buses, trucks etc. and even motorcyclists (many of whom unfortunately already drive on the wrong side sometimes). The number of accidents would be staggering, probably in the tens of thousands, the number of deaths would also be in the thousands within just a few days (I'm absolutely sure about this...if Songkran and New Year cause about 350 deaths each within just a few days you can be guaranteed that a traffic switchover would have far worse consequences), not to mention the incredible logistical challenges involved (meaning the nation's entire police force would need to be on the roads and a one week holiday to allow drivers to adjust and all the associated economic consequences) and lastly, who would pay for all this? Thailand doesn't have the money to pay for such a ridiculous proposal - hell, even the USA wouldn't have the money to change it's infrastructure for driving on the left. It's thus a completely unnecessary and stupid proposal. Incredibly, incredibly stupid and pointless. No way this proposal will ever see the light of day. Perhaps the World Bank should pay Laos and Cambodia to change, and of course Myanmar (the most likely one to change back, besides, 90% of their vehicles are RHD anyway)...it's certainly not Thailand that needs to change.

End of rant.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

However, the deputy prime minister significantly noted that Thailand is quite ‘uncompetitive’ in becoming regional logistic centre, as the nation drives on left hand traffic’

Singapore seems to cope quite well and they ARE the regional logistics center, it seems to Deputy PM has forgotten the other reasons Thailand has obstacles in its way, namely corrupt business practices, repressive customs & excise polices, lack of proficiency in the international language of commerce and trade, ie English, repressive business formation polices for foreign companies etc

Singapore may be regional logistics center for airlines and shipping, but the topic here seems to be roadway logistics and Singapore is an island country so you point does not make any sense

[Tomtomtom69]

Why not ask the other ASAEN countries to change to driving on the left of the road?

Would it not be far simpler for countries with less established infrastructure to swap over - so that would obviously include Cambodia and Laos. ...and VN has far less 4 wheeled vehicles than any of Thailand, Indonesia or Malaysia.

Vietnam has just 2 million cars for a population of 90 million and only about 100,000 new vehicle sales a year, compared to Thailand's 1.2 million. Current proposals proposed by the Vietnamese government that would restrict the growth of cars by preventing car traffic from entering the city centers of Ho Chi Minh and possibly Hanoi, as well as tax increases or possibly other measures like a lottery system for number plates (similar in a sense to either the Beijing system or even the Singaporean COE system) which would make it even more difficult to own a car are up for consideration, according to my Vietnamese friend and a recent article I read. If any such measures were to come to the pass, then there would be little preventing Vietnam from converting to the left because as it stands there is so little car traffic in Vietnam anyway it's like going back 50 years in time.

Vietnam's government is a very anti-car one. It is by far the most anti-car government in the region - Singapore only has it's current system in place because of limitations with it's small physical size and consequently the need to limit the growth of vehicles there is understandable, but less so in Vietnam. Of course, Vietnam's infrastructure can hardly cope with any growth itself as it is hopelessly deficient in a number of areas, but it is a country of some size whose economy has been rather poorly planned thus they only have themselves to blame. It still has only a skeletal infrastructure compared to Thailand, the roads there are similar to Thai roads in the 1960s or 70s perhaps. It's bureaucracy is also a nightmare. No wonder Thailand needn't worry about Japanese investors moving automotive production there from Thailand even if the political situation were to drag on - Thailand is just too established and has all the right factors in place - a pro car government, the right incentives, a reasonably sized car market and reasonably good infrastructure.

[Tomtomtom69]

Why not ask the other ASAEN countries to change to driving on the left of the road?

Would it not be far simpler for countries with less established infrastructure to swap over - so that would obviously include Cambodia and Laos. ...and VN has far less 4 wheeled vehicles than any of Thailand, Indonesia or Malaysia.

Vietnam has just 2 million cars for a population of 90 million and only about 100,000 new vehicle sales a year, compared to Thailand's 1.2 million. Current proposals proposed by the Vietnamese government that would restrict the growth of cars by preventing car traffic from entering the city centers of Ho Chi Minh and possibly Hanoi, as well as tax increases or possibly other measures like a lottery system for number plates (similar in a sense to either the Beijing system or even the Singaporean COE system) which would make it even more difficult to own a car are up for consideration, according to my Vietnamese friend and a recent article I read. If any such measures were to come to the pass, then there would be little preventing Vietnam from converting to the left because as it stands there is so little car traffic in Vietnam anyway it's like going back 50 years in time.

Vietnam's government is a very anti-car one. It is by far the most anti-car government in the region - Singapore only has it's current system in place because of limitations with it's small physical size and consequently the need to limit the growth of vehicles there is understandable, but less so in Vietnam. Of course, Vietnam's infrastructure can hardly cope with any growth itself as it is hopelessly deficient in a number of areas, but it is a country of some size whose economy has been rather poorly planned thus they only have themselves to blame. It still has only a skeletal infrastructure compared to Thailand, the roads there are similar to Thai roads in the 1960s or 70s perhaps. It's bureaucracy is also a nightmare. No wonder Thailand needn't worry about Japanese investors moving automotive production there from Thailand even if the political situation were to drag on - Thailand is just too established and has all the right factors in place - a pro car government, the right incentives, a reasonably sized car market and reasonably good infrastructure.

[Tomtomtom69]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

However, the deputy prime minister significantly noted that Thailand is quite ‘uncompetitive’ in becoming regional logistic centre, as the nation drives on left hand traffic’

Singapore seems to cope quite well and they ARE the regional logistics center, it seems to Deputy PM has forgotten the other reasons Thailand has obstacles in its way, namely corrupt business practices, repressive customs & excise polices, lack of proficiency in the international language of commerce and trade, ie English, repressive business formation polices for foreign companies etc

Singapore may be regional logistics center for airlines and shipping, but the topic here seems to be roadway logistics and Singapore is an island country so you point does not make any sense

There are two road bridges joining Malaysia and Singapore. However, all road traffic comes from the north (Malaysia and Thailand) or goes north. It is known more as a shipping and air transport hub because it only has one country that can be accessed by road (Malaysia), whereas Thailand is in a strategic position with 4 neighboring countries and it controls the Isthmus of Kra, thus all overland traffic headed for Malaysia and Singapore must pass through Thailand first. Therefore, Singapore is the end of the line as far as overland travel in Asia is concerned.

[Tomtomtom69]

Does anybody seriously believe that the Thai economy will be affected either way by which side of the roads Thai traffic (tends to ) drive on?

When moving large trucks and lots of goods across the borders, it will make a difference.

No it won't. As mentioned in another reply already large numbers of Thai trucks head into Laos everyday and they DON'T change vehicles at the border. Similarly, smaller numbers of Lao trucks head into Thailand everyday, though usually they don't travel more than about 100km inside the country so you won't see them outside of Isarn.

Anyway, what's so difficult about driving a vehicle with the steering wheel on the "wrong" side? All you need to do is keep slightly more space in front of you compared to normally and when you overtake/pass you just lean slightly into the other seat. I've driven LHD Lao registered cars into Thailand many times, traveling from Pakse/Vientiane to Bangkok and Mae Sot-Lampang-Chiang Mai-Chiang Rai etc. and all over the place. It wasn't really any more difficult than driving my Thai RHD vehicle here.

Besides, truck drivers often drive in pairs and the one that isn't driving can just watch to make sure there's enough room for overtaking. In Myanmar the vast majority of vehicles have RHD for driving on the right and they are able to drive quite well...the accident rate isn't even that high there, certainly less than Thailand.

[Cricketnut]

Blimey! - More guff!

What about a simple sticker stating RIGHT hand drive vehicle. Changing to right hand lane will simply cause more carnage.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wilcopops]

this is a fairly normal procedure for transport vehicles travelling between England and Europe - in many cases only the trailer is put on the ferry / train for transport across the channel -i.e., dropped on one side and collected on the other side.

As someone who spent 2 decades involved in transport across the channel I can tell you that the huge majority of traffic did not switch tractor units....many would in fact carry on as far as Saudi a and back.

[Cricketnut]

"No Lao truck has ever made it to Bangkok," - really?

think that trucks may have with some expats on board, get my drift...

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Cricketnut]

Thai's drive left right and centre plus every other combination on the road so where is the problem.

Foreign drivers appear to see it as a challenge and part of the fun of being here.

When they return to their home country they never complain about other drivers again.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[binjalin]

he should not worry... Thai's drive whichever side they feel like and have no idea what that strange leaver is on the dash is - sometimes when it is touched people think they are turning! (but not the way they actually go)

[wilcopops]

Does anybody seriously believe that the Thai economy will be affected either way by which side of the roads Thai traffic (tends to ) drive on?

When moving large trucks and lots of goods across the borders, it will make a difference.

No it won't - this occurs in huge numbers in such places as the UK France crossing - the trucks there proceed all over Europe....and further.