Half-baked solutions will not ease Bangkok's traffic congestion

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE
Half-baked solutions will not ease Bangkok's traffic congestion
Chularat Saengpassa



THE METROPOLITAN Police's proposed solution to Bangkok's traffic problems is a step in the right direction, but given the absence of comprehensive planning, it is not surprising that the proposal has drawn major opposition. Bangkok's traffic system certainly needs a serious overhaul, but any measures to tackle it must be carefully coordinated - involving the full cooperation of all parties.

Bangkok roads cannot serve all 7 million vehicles registered in the city, and many more registered in the provinces, without causing congestion. Traffic and Transport Policy and Planning Office data show that each year, the average speed of automobiles in Bangkok has declined as the number of new cars continues to rise. According to the office, the average speed of vehicles on Bangkok's main roads - such as Rama IV and Sukhumvit roads - during morning rush hour has dropped to 15.7km/h.

What should authorities do?

Much of the criticism is directed at the government's first-car-buyer programme. The scheme initially drew orders for more than a million vehicles, but as many as 200,000 may be cancelled, since new campaigns by automakers are offering even more attractive packages than the tax-rebate package offered last year by the government. Whichever way you look at it, these policies allow for the easy purchase of automobiles, thus increasing the problems of carbon emissions, while also aggravating Bangkok's congestion problems.

At a time when climate change is the greatest global challenge, carbon emissions should be a part of all government policy - particularly that related to transport.

This is why the Metropolitan Police's proposal seems absurd. According to police, old cars should be banned from Bangkok roads, unless their owners are paying as much registration tax as new cars. The proposal should be fought against - not because it is pressing for old cars to pay higher registration taxes, but because it fails to take into account the carbon dioxide that old cars emit.

As Transport Minister Chadchart Sittipunt said recently, the proposal has also come at a bad time because Bangkok's public-transport system is under fire.

In fast-expanding Greater Bangkok, which includes four peripheral provinces - Nonthaburi, Pathum Thani, Nakhom Pathom |and Samut Prakan - any changes should include planning for the whole area. The Skytrain and MRT are positive advances, but both systems have failed to solve transport problems for those people who have to commute from the suburbs, or beyond.

The German Academy for International Cooperation (GIZ), an institute specialising in development issues, is now working on a transport model for Asean, with Bangkok a key area of the study.

Principally, more transport infrastructure is needed, but at the same time, it must be friendly to the environment where we live.

Let's look at what other metropolises have done.

London has introduced a Congestion Charge Zone (CCZ) for vehicles operating in the city centre between 7am and 6pm, Monday to Friday. Launched in 2003, the initiative is the first of its kind in the world. While it is intended to reduce the flow of traffic into and around the city centre, it also addresses the problem of carbon emissions.

For example, it offers a 100-per-cent discount on the Congestion Charge to cars or vans (not exceeding 3.5 tonnes in gross vehicle weight) that emit 75 grams per kilometre or less of carbon dioxide, and that meet also the Euro 5 standard for air quality.

Sound interesting? If the answer is yes, perhaps the very first thing that Thai authorities should do is identify roads where traffic must be strictly controlled. These roads are very likely located in the Rattanakosin Island area and in main business areas such as Siam, Silom and Sathorn.

To win public support, the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration would then need to come up with a comprehensive report as to why such traffic-control measures are worthwhile. The report should show how much money authorities have spent on fixing properties in those areas after they were damaged by volumes of heavy traffic.

It should also indicate how exhaust emissions have polluted the environment and hurt people's health in these areas.

At the same time, the BMA must also present alternative means of transport for commuters in these areas.

Such measures could also be extended to other parts of the city later, leading to a comprehensive traffic system that would benefit all in the long term.


-- The Nation 2013-10-15

[yooper2001]

Have another one million first time car buyers discount program like last year should solve the problem

[ChrisY1]

What you get rom half baked people...half baked decisions!

[Local Drunk]

"the very first thing that Thai authorities should do is identify roads where traffic must be strictly controlled."

Well, to strictly control anything you must first be able to enforce it. The government is pretty good at issuing and enforcing an ISA, but when it comes to a traffic intersection or a U-turn...

[MaxLee]

"the very first thing that Thai authorities should do is identify roads where traffic must be strictly controlled."

Well, to strictly control anything you must first be able to enforce it. The government is pretty good at issuing and enforcing an ISA, but when it comes to a traffic intersection or a U-turn...

U-turns are the worst b******s out of all the drivers, if at a U turn you are one of the "lucky ones" I the inner lane, you have put yourself in grave danger, because the U-turners won't stop without regards to human life...

Like many of you mentioned, the problem was to allow that first car scam in the first place, and now that most buyers realize they can't pay for the extra loans, they're screwed and there'll be a higher amount of unused cars which cannot disappear in thin air.

Another problem however is from the rich feudal and influential society who is too much worried to preserve face and status, because car means face.

Now the main problem is that the public transportation system, trains, public buses, vans, is so dangerous and below standard quality, thus BTS and MRT are only in limited areas, that it's no wonder that people rather desire a car than putting themselves in the line if fire.

[UncleJ]

In Bogota, Colombia the mayor has created a system that seems to work.

Youtube video interview:

Edited October 15, 2013 by UncleJ

[Local Drunk]

In Bogota, Colombia the mayor has created a system that seems to work.

Youtube video interview:

I like that. "A bus with a hundred passengers has the right to a hundred times more road space than a car with a single passenger"

[lujanit]

Maybe if the BIB enforced the road rules instead of ignoring them, unless it's to their own benefit of course, traffic flow 'might' get better. Scycronization of traffic lights would help. Waiting at a red light for 180 seconds then getting a green for 30 seconds, <deleted> gives? Anyone who has driven in BKK for any length of time knows that a light going green for 120 seconds hits a red light 200 metres up the road saying I'm not turning red for another 120 seconds. Plain stupidity!

[Curt1591]

Simply understanding, and enforcement, of traffic laws would go a long way towards helping the situation.

Yielding to oncoming traffic, not parking in no parking zones, keeping to one lane at a time, and other simple practices would help

[gemini81]

In Bogota, Colombia the mayor has created a system that seems to work.

Youtube video interview:

That is way too clever for the politicians here. Introduce even one of these concept to the PTP, and they'll mentally train wreck.

[roiethome]

I remember back in 1998 when Bangkok spent 5M$ automating the traffic light systems. Only thing wrong was to out an over ride switch in every police box. When the system failed to give 180 seconds to the main flow, the BIB simply ushed the switch and caused even more congestion.

The system needs to make the decisions, nit some half educated operator.

Also double the price of fuel, that would take plenty of cars off the bangkoks treets overnight.

[Thait Spot]

Half baked dams

Half baked trains

Half baked rice scheme

Half baked tourism

Half baked power strategy

Half baked rubber policy

..... and half baked roads

[Honkytowner]

There are two roots to this problem:

1. Whereas other major cities around the world reserve about 20% of their space for roads, Bangkok reserves only 10%;

2. The government is in thrall to foreign automotive manufacturers, for the revenue their production plants here provide, but shows little consideration for the convenience of its citizens — the people whose interests they should be putting first.

Likewise, the solution is twofold and relatively simple:

1. Allow the purchase of a private car only on production of documents showing a level of income commensurate with the ability to comfortably afford such, and proof of payment of related income tax;

2. Make much greater investment in developing fast, comfortable mass transit systems.

Mind you, since Bangkok is sinking at 3cm per year and sea levels are rising, the whole dam_n city will be awash within the next couple of decades, so the unvoiced attitude is "Why bother?"

Edited October 15, 2013 by Honkytowner

[rfukata]

illegal parking on all streets are certainly a big problem - just tow the vehicles away, stoping for a food cart/food stall should be

a strong traffic violation and cited as well.

[yourauntbob]

This isnt rocket science, they need

1) more public transport

2) more bike lane

3) repair sidewalks so people can walk

4) enforce driving laws

5) move the cops out of those stupid aircon booths, they cause more traffic than they assist

etc...

[belg]

i spot like 15 taxis in this single picture

make lpg, cng less attractive, maybe they will stop crusing around and around

they are a serious part of the problem

sometimes for every 5 cars, i spot one empty taxi

[Pui]

i spot like 15 taxis in this single picture

make lpg, cng less attractive, maybe they will stop crusing around and around

they are a serious part of the problem

sometimes for every 5 cars, i spot one empty taxi

There are too many taxi's on the road but with no decent public transport, taxi's are essentially the only way of getting around.

They are building a new underground station at Hua Lamphong Railway Station. To my astonishment the estimated time of completion is 5 years.

Taxi's are a short term solution. They need proper infrastructure.

[Torrens54]

"the very first thing that Thai authorities should do is identify roads where traffic must be strictly controlled."

Well, to strictly control anything you must first be able to enforce it. The government is pretty good at issuing and enforcing an ISA, but when it comes to a traffic intersection or a U-turn...

U-turns are the worst b******s out of all the drivers, if at a U turn you are one of the "lucky ones" I the inner lane, you have put yourself in grave danger, because the U-turners won't stop without regards to human life...

Like many of you mentioned, the problem was to allow that first car scam in the first place, and now that most buyers realize they can't pay for the extra loans, they're screwed and there'll be a higher amount of unused cars which cannot disappear in thin air.

Another problem however is from the rich feudal and influential society who is too much worried to preserve face and status, because car means face.

Now the main problem is that the public transportation system, trains, public buses, vans, is so dangerous and below standard quality, thus BTS and MRT are only in limited areas, that it's no wonder that people rather desire a car than putting themselves in the line if fire.

Do away with most of the U-Turns and institute Round-Abouts, they are much better at filtering traffic.

[tingtongfarang]

"the very first thing that Thai authorities should do is identify roads where traffic must be strictly controlled."

Well, to strictly control anything you must first be able to enforce it. The government is pretty good at issuing and enforcing an ISA, but when it comes to a traffic intersection or a U-turn...

U-turns are the worst b******s out of all the drivers, if at a U turn you are one of the "lucky ones" I the inner lane, you have put yourself in grave danger, because the U-turners won't stop without regards to human life...

Like many of you mentioned, the problem was to allow that first car scam in the first place, and now that most buyers realize they can't pay for the extra loans, they're screwed and there'll be a higher amount of unused cars which cannot disappear in thin air.

Another problem however is from the rich feudal and influential society who is too much worried to preserve face and status, because car means face.

Now the main problem is that the public transportation system, trains, public buses, vans, is so dangerous and below standard quality, thus BTS and MRT are only in limited areas, that it's no wonder that people rather desire a car than putting themselves in the line if fire.

Do away with most of the U-Turns and institute Round-Abouts, they are much better at filtering traffic.

Thais wont use roundabouts as they should be used, they only traverse in the shortest direction even if its the wrong way.

[thhMan]

Get some westerners to go in their and manage it. Also put some westerners into the police force to sort them out too.

Invest in better salaries for the police instead of wasting it on silly ideas.

Start fixing the basics and the rest will fall into place

[bangon04]

Why should owners of older cars pay less road tax than with new ones? If you take up the same space on the road, pay the same.

A real, enforced vehicle safety check would probably remove many old cars and buses from the road, for the right reasons. An emissions check would remove more.

Would a typical tuk-tuk pass any such checks?

Edited October 15, 2013 by bangon04

[rubl]

Yesterday evening wating for the BTS at ChongNonSri I watched a cartoon displayed on the screens hanging around. It promoted 'good driving', golden rules, a police officer in his box giving advise. Later in the night a watch a promotional clip on Channel7 on 'green thinking' like leave your car and take bus, train, BTS.

As busses and trains tend to be full already (certainly during the many hour long rushhours I can only hope that we get some more buslanes, rail extensions and the like before the promotions take effect.

[sprq]

"the very first thing that Thai authorities should do is identify roads where traffic must be strictly controlled."

Well, to strictly control anything you must first be able to enforce it. The government is pretty good at issuing and enforcing an ISA, but when it comes to a traffic intersection or a U-turn...

U-turns are the worst b******s out of all the drivers, if at a U turn you are one of the "lucky ones" I the inner lane, you have put yourself in grave danger, because the U-turners won't stop without regards to human life...

Like many of you mentioned, the problem was to allow that first car scam in the first place, and now that most buyers realize they can't pay for the extra loans, they're screwed and there'll be a higher amount of unused cars which cannot disappear in thin air.

Another problem however is from the rich feudal and influential society who is too much worried to preserve face and status, because car means face.

Now the main problem is that the public transportation system, trains, public buses, vans, is so dangerous and below standard quality, thus BTS and MRT are only in limited areas, that it's no wonder that people rather desire a car than putting themselves in the line if fire.

Do away with most of the U-Turns and institute Round-Abouts, they are much better at filtering traffic.

I've read all the suggestions so far and this is the first piecemeal one with real merit. Although the real solution is a comprehensive transportation plan for the whole urban area, which does not exist and never has existed, such is Thailand, if we look at piecemeal improvements, roundabouts (US traffic circles) are the top priority. For some reason, the Bangkok authorities have a horror of them. The only ones that exist to my extensive knowledge are the monumental ones at Democracy Monument, Victory Monument and Wongwian Yai (Thonburi). It seems that only some statue or other monument is worthy of a roundabout, whereas in fact there are hundreds of traffic junctions in the city, which have or don't have traffic lights, where the traffic flow would be immeasurably improved by the insertion of roundabouts. Furthermore, besides their internationally proven efficiency, they would suit Thai drivers very well, with their habits of inching into spaces with a little give and take.

But the best single remedy of all would be to abolish most of the downtown parking spaces. From the perspective of those who know big European cities like London or Paris, it's incredible how the Bangkok authorities allow any business, shopping centre, institution, etc, etc to create as many parking spaces as they like for their employees and customers. In major Western European cities, the planning authorities strictly limit the number of parking spaces in city centres, for the simple reason that this stops most peoiple from driving into the city centres. In return, the authorities ensure adequate public transport to carry the people who cannot use their cars.

Those two things are the key to solving Bangkok's traffic problems: vastly reducing traffic by vastly reducing parking spaces, and vastly improving bus and train services. It's simple to state, but politically and practically difficult. In fact, in the hopeless Thai political environment, it's impossible.

All the people on this thread who talk about incompetent police, silly U-turns, bad driving habits and so on are correct, but missing the point. The point is that you have to be stopped from driving in most cases. You are part of the problem.

Edited October 15, 2013 by sprq

[A1Str8]

But these people have only half-baked solutions, no matter what the issue is.

Edited October 15, 2013 by A1Str8

[flyingdoc]

Apart from the rise in emissions, the car industry could do well to look at research and actual progress in the case of airliners.

Within 2 years, some 600 airliners will be fitted with dual motors, which will switch to electric immediately on touchdown, thus reducing airport pollution dramatically, and overall fuel bills by an initial 5%

There is no reason why vehicles using designated city areas, could not be compelled to switch to an auxiliary electric motor, thus reducing emissions to almost zero. Those that refuse or cannot afford to comply, will have to resort to Park and Ride. Soon, there will be no options! Cost is determined by uptake, so mass production would reduce the purchase price of such vehicles or adaptations, to an acceptable level !

[rametindallas]

"the very first thing that Thai authorities should do is identify roads where traffic must be strictly controlled."

Well, to strictly control anything you must first be able to enforce it. The government is pretty good at issuing and enforcing an ISA, but when it comes to a traffic intersection or a U-turn...

U-turns are the worst b******s out of all the drivers, if at a U turn you are one of the "lucky ones" I the inner lane, you have put yourself in grave danger, because the U-turners won't stop without regards to human life...

Like many of you mentioned, the problem was to allow that first car scam in the first place, and now that most buyers realize they can't pay for the extra loans, they're screwed and there'll be a higher amount of unused cars which cannot disappear in thin air.

Another problem however is from the rich feudal and influential society who is too much worried to preserve face and status, because car means face.

Now the main problem is that the public transportation system, trains, public buses, vans, is so dangerous and below standard quality, thus BTS and MRT are only in limited areas, that it's no wonder that people rather desire a car than putting themselves in the line if fire.

Do away with most of the U-Turns and institute Round-Abouts, they are much better at filtering traffic.

4 Way Stop Vs Roundabout - Mythbusters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvoFjirrgYA

Even with drivers inexperienced with roundabouts, 50% more cars got through the intersection in the same amount of time.

[Thai at Heart]

In Bogota, Colombia the mayor has created a system that seems to work.

Youtube video interview:

I like that. "A bus with a hundred passengers has the right to a hundred times more road space than a car with a single passenger"

That idea will never catch on in Thailand.

[Local Drunk]

"the very first thing that Thai authorities should do is identify roads where traffic must be strictly controlled."

Well, to strictly control anything you must first be able to enforce it. The government is pretty good at issuing and enforcing an ISA, but when it comes to a traffic intersection or a U-turn...

U-turns are the worst b******s out of all the drivers, if at a U turn you are one of the "lucky ones" I the inner lane, you have put yourself in grave danger, because the U-turners won't stop without regards to human life...

Like many of you mentioned, the problem was to allow that first car scam in the first place, and now that most buyers realize they can't pay for the extra loans, they're screwed and there'll be a higher amount of unused cars which cannot disappear in thin air.

Another problem however is from the rich feudal and influential society who is too much worried to preserve face and status, because car means face.

Now the main problem is that the public transportation system, trains, public buses, vans, is so dangerous and below standard quality, thus BTS and MRT are only in limited areas, that it's no wonder that people rather desire a car than putting themselves in the line if fire.

Do away with most of the U-Turns and institute Round-Abouts, they are much better at filtering traffic.

I've read all the suggestions so far and this is the first piecemeal one with real merit. Although the real solution is a comprehensive transportation plan for the whole urban area, which does not exist and never has existed, such is Thailand, if we look at piecemeal improvements, roundabouts (US traffic circles) are the top priority. For some reason, the Bangkok authorities have a horror of them. The only ones that exist to my extensive knowledge are the monumental ones at Democracy Monument, Victory Monument and Wongwian Yai (Thonburi). It seems that only some statue or other monument is worthy of a roundabout, whereas in fact there are hundreds of traffic junctions in the city, which have or don't have traffic lights, where the traffic flow would be immeasurably improved by the insertion of roundabouts. Furthermore, besides their internationally proven efficiency, they would suit Thai drivers very well, with their habits of inching into spaces with a little give and take.

But the best single remedy of all would be to abolish most of the downtown parking spaces. From the perspective of those who know big European cities like London or Paris, it's incredible how the Bangkok authorities allow any business, shopping centre, institution, etc, etc to create as many parking spaces as they like for their employees and customers. In major Western European cities, the planning authorities strictly limit the number of parking spaces in city centres, for the simple reason that this stops most peoiple from driving into the city centres. In return, the authorities ensure adequate public transport to carry the people who cannot use their cars.

Those two things are the key to solving Bangkok's traffic problems: vastly reducing traffic by vastly reducing parking spaces, and vastly improving bus and train services. It's simple to state, but politically and practically difficult. In fact, in the hopeless Thai political environment, it's impossible.

All the people on this thread who talk about incompetent police, silly U-turns, bad driving habits and so on are correct, but missing the point. The point is that you have to be stopped from driving in most cases. You are part of the problem.

We comment on the u-turns because they are a bit like cholesterol impeding the flow of blood to the heart. Now, if the U-turns were controlled then traffic would flow more quickly. I agree with all you said but I'd be negligent not to opine on the matter of U-turns.

[Curt1591]

Here's what happens when the police take control of traffic:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=705712476105952&set=a.172109969466208.46607.172059279471277&type=1&theater

This happened about an hour ago around Pak Chong!

[soomak]

In Bogota, Colombia the mayor has created a system that seems to work.

Youtube video interview:

True, and that was a long time ago.

Berlin has a great public transportation system, maybe the Bangkok authorities can just go there and learn.

Of course, they will have to agree to learn from foreigners, which means that somebody out there is more clever then them, so low chance of that happening.