Work permit working with Thai wife?

[umbanda]

I am married but still keeping my retirement visa. My next yearly renewal is in June next year. My wife owns a small company doing real estate management and "we" are starting an export business. Was my idea and looks like it is working. In reality I am just helping her in communicate with potential clients in English. She only speaks Thai. She doesn't have employees, and probably she will not need to hire anybody for this too.

Can I have problems because I do not have a WP? What will be better? Get the marriage visa? Open a limited company with her and pay Social Security for 2 part time employees to get a WP? Or just keeping in helping her without worries about immigration? I just write e-mails and answer some phone calls inside our home, but sometimes I meet her Thai clients in person to coach her.

[Mario2008]

Legally you need a work permit and for that you will need to extend your stay based on marriage, not on retirement as on that a WP will not be issued.

Without a WP you are breaking the law and can be fined, even jailed and expelled. The norm is paying a fine and sometimes leave the country.

[umbanda]

Legally you need a work permit and for that you will need to extend your stay based on marriage, not on retirement as on that a WP will not be issued.

Without a WP you are breaking the law and can be fined, even jailed and expelled. The norm is paying a fine and sometimes leave the country.

I need to register the company before getting the marriage visa, or get the marriage visa first? If the company hired 2 Thai employees, can the company apply for my WP? The company will be a husband and wife limited partnership.

[Mario2008]

I think you are talking about extension of stay, not visas. What you do first doesn't matter, only for the WP itself it is important that you are on an extension of stay based on marriage.

[umbanda]

I think you are talking about extension of stay, not visas. What you do first doesn't matter, only for the WP itself it is important that you are on an extension of stay based on marriage.

Thank you very much for your advise..

[PattayaPhom]

If in Chonburi its 4 Thais regardless of marriage

[umbanda]

If in Chonburi its 4 Thais regardless of marriage

Thai wife + 3 or Thai wife + 4 ?

[ubonjoe]

Wife is included in any case.

[elliottm]

Next year I'm opening a shoe shop with the wife and am renewing my Non Imm O Visa (spouse) next month. The wife will run the shop but I'm sure I'll be roped in to help out some times. Does that fall into illegal working, any links/reliable sources to research this? Thanks.

[hempa]

Next year I'm opening a shoe shop with the wife and am renewing my Non Imm O Visa (spouse) next month. The wife will run the shop but I'm sure I'll be roped in to help out some times. Does that fall into illegal working, any links/reliable sources to research this? Thanks.

ALL work require WP!

[elliottm]

Looking at the below criteria from the Immigration site for a visa based on "business necessity" you need to be on Non-Im visa and employ 4 Thai employees as stated above, but there's also a raft of other qualifications such as 2 year audited accounts, 2 million baht capital etc

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=service#

Is there another route to getting a WP on Type O visa (spouse) where the wife registers as a sole trader/small business with the government? At most, I could occasionally see myself sitting in the shared living/office area if the wife momentarily stepped away from the shop front, does that qualify as "working"?

To clarify, I'd be helping with start up costs such as stock but not be working in the shop.

Edited October 16, 2013 by elliottm

[elliottm]

Legally you need a work permit and for that you will need to extend your stay based on marriage, not on retirement as on that a WP will not be issued.

Without a WP you are breaking the law and can be fined, even jailed and expelled. The norm is paying a fine and sometimes leave the country.

I need to register the company before getting the marriage visa, or get the marriage visa first? If the company hired 2 Thai employees, can the company apply for my WP? The company will be a husband and wife limited partnership.

Anugoon, below are the several criteria for Visa Extension based on business, is this separate from getting a WP from your company that you are proposing? Apologies for any confusion.

Criteria for Consideration (1) The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) The alien must earn an income per the attached Table of Income (Annex A).

(3) The business must have a paid-up registered capital of no less than Baht 2 million.

(4) Said business must have submitted its financial statements as at the end of its fiscal year for the

past two accounting years which have duly been audited and certified by a certified public

accountant or a tax auditor, to prove that the business is sufficiently secure with actual and

continuous operation, according to the guidelines for consideration of business status concerning the

actual and continuous operation attached hereto (Annex .

(5) Said business needs to hire aliens.

(6) Said business must have a ratio of one alien employee per four permanent Thai employees.

(7) The following businesses shall be exempted from the Criteria (3), (4), and (5), and the ratio of

Thai employees specified under Criteria (6), shall be reduced to one alien employee per one

permanent Thai employee:

(a) International trade business (representative office)

( Regional office

© Overseas company (branch office)

[Mario2008]

He is married to a Thai, so can get extensions of stay based on his marriage.

if they start a new company, he wont be able to get extensions of stay based on employment for the first two year anyway, as that requires tax documents.

[elliottm]

Here is a link on TV sponsored by sunbelt lawyers for getting a work permit.

http://www.thaivisa.com/how-to-get-thai-workpermit.html

The company sponsoring the work permit of an applicant married to a Thai national must have registered capital of 1,000,000 baht and in its first year have two Thai employees and 4 thereafter:

"When applying for the visa Extension of Stay, the immigration requires the company to have at least 4 Thai employees (listed in Social Security Fund 3 months prior to the application). This is a compulsory requirement from the Immigration".

Now I am Really confused/worried. If my Thai wife moves from salaried employment next year to run a tax registered, sole trader shop in a house that I will also be living in does that mean I automatically require a work permit to avoid breaking the law & then have to set her up in a company that complies with all of the above WP compliance to do so?

Don't get me wrong here, I'm perfectly happy to tell the wife I'm not allowed to lift a finger in the shop if it means breaking immigration laws - am I immediately compromised if I help with any of the shop costs such as stock (I may have already inadvertantly painted the shop front).

I'm currently on a Non Imm O (Thai spouse).

[hugocnx]

If you have some special craftsmanship or knowledge which Thai cannot do or know, here is a way to do.

My wife (Thai) and me started a company based on 1 million capital.

3 shareholders were needed. No need for staff!

My wife is the director, owing 51 %, myself am shareholder for 48% (foreigner) and there is this third party with 1%. We actually got married after the setup of the company, then got my visa extension based on marriage an applied after this for a work permit. My specialty was Dutch Chef for our factory making Dutch fast food and specialties. As long as your turnover is lower than 1,2 M Thai baht, you are exempted from VAT admin and payment.

Ok, if you don't have the distinctive skills you need some staff.

Edited October 16, 2013 by hugocnx

[flyingdoc]

I would recommend setting up a Thai company. If you start with a 2,000,000 baht authorised capital, not paid up, this entitles you to one work permit, which is all you need. I don't believe in more restrictions or red tape than is utterly necessary !

[ubonjoe]

Only 1 million baht of registered capital is needed if married to a Thai.

[elliottm]

I would recommend setting up a Thai company. If you start with a 2,000,000 baht authorised capital, not paid up, this entitles you to one work permit, which is all you need. I don't believe in more restrictions or red tape than is utterly necessary !

Thanks flyingdoc. So 1,000,000 baht (if married to Thai national) could be the authorised capital with the minimum issued capital allocated to the shareholders (with majority Thai ownership), that would still require 4 Thai employees enrolled on Social Security and the other tax/VAT documents etc to get a WP, right?

So to avoid being deemed as working I would literally have to do nothing at the shop floor, not even clean?

If I provide any start up costs, does that automatically qualify me as a partner requiring a WP?

[umbanda]

If you have some special craftsmanship or knowledge which Thai cannot do or know, here is a way to do.

My wife (Thai) and me started a company based on 1 million capital.

3 shareholders were needed. No need for staff!

My wife is the director, owing 51 %, myself am shareholder for 48% (foreigner) and there is this third party with 1%. We actually got married after the setup of the company, then got my visa extension based on marriage an applied after this for a work permit. My specialty was Dutch Chef for our factory making Dutch fast food and specialties. As long as your turnover is lower than 1,2 M Thai baht, you are exempted from VAT admin and payment.

Ok, if you don't have the distinctive skills you need some staff.

Good info! My wife already own a real estate management company, just by herself. We are planning in go into condo development to sell to foreigners. I am a Brazilian architect and former US Realtor. I speak English, she don't. I think that will be enough for specialty, or not?

Can her 25 years old son be the shareholder with 1%?

[thaiexpat21]

anugoon

Among the many prohibited occupations are ....................

Service business: Accounting, farming animals, architecture, advertising, brokerage, auctioning, Barber, hair dressing & beautician. Building industry.

Edited October 16, 2013 by thaiexpat21

[umbanda]

anugoon

Among the many prohibited occupations are ....................

Service business: Accounting, farming animals, architecture, advertising, brokerage, auctioning, Barber, hair dressing & beautician. Building industry.

Thank you for let me know. Other member here said that I can work or get a work permit if I am a 48% partner in the company with my 51% wife and other 1% shareholder, and no needs for employees. Is that true?

[ben2203]

Next year I'm opening a shoe shop with the wife and am renewing my Non Imm O Visa (spouse) next month. The wife will run the shop but I'm sure I'll be roped in to help out some times. Does that fall into illegal working, any links/reliable sources to research this? Thanks.

ฺBasically yes, but it depends where you are, for instance I have a friend in the North East, who runs a steak house, farms and does all sorts of stuff. The police and immigration police visit him frequently but nobody really cares. If this was some other place south of issan though, it's sketchy.

There are plenty of teachers who work without work permits also, it just depends on how you get on with people, who you know etc.

Some people are on the make though and you could meet a particular corrupt cop or something, mostly don't give them anything or just something small and then they don't bother to come back. Usually, I think you're fine, if you are unfortunate to meet the wrong people just don't get overly friendly with them. That goes for Thai and foreigners.

Adopt to the local customs, some of the most obvious such as, when somebody dies, you should give a few baht and attend the funeral to show that you care, when somebody gets married also, if somebody is sick then go visit them in hospital etc, not much really and you usually get left alone. Don't shout at people too much etc. Imagine some random chinese guy giving the locals abuse in for example America or some such, it's not on is it?

I noticed one English fella who used to abuse some third gender people frequently just because he didn't like them, it's at a western restaurant in Bangkok, anyway these days police come around his premises very often. Oh the fella who caused the disturbance wasn't the owner also so be wary of that, if you do employ anybody to work there.

Anyway, people will usually turn a blind eye to anything which is harmless, you should be fine

[ben2203]

Usually, in Thai culture, rules are not followed that closely, hey?

[elliottm]

Next year I'm opening a shoe shop with the wife and am renewing my Non Imm O Visa (spouse) next month. The wife will run the shop but I'm sure I'll be roped in to help out some times. Does that fall into illegal working, any links/reliable sources to research this? Thanks.

ฺBasically yes, but it depends where you are, for instance I have a friend in the North East, who runs a steak house, farms and does all sorts of stuff. The police and immigration police visit him frequently but nobody really cares. If this was some other place south of issan though, it's sketchy.

There are plenty of teachers who work without work permits also, it just depends on how you get on with people, who you know etc.

Some people are on the make though and you could meet a particular corrupt cop or something, mostly don't give them anything or just something small and then they don't bother to come back. Usually, I think you're fine, if you are unfortunate to meet the wrong people just don't get overly friendly with them. That goes for Thai and foreigners.

Adopt to the local customs, some of the most obvious such as, when somebody dies, you should give a few baht and attend the funeral to show that you care, when somebody gets married also, if somebody is sick then go visit them in hospital etc, not much really and you usually get left alone. Don't shout at people too much etc. Imagine some random chinese guy giving the locals abuse in for example America or some such, it's not on is it?

I noticed one English fella who used to abuse some third gender people frequently just because he didn't like them, it's at a western restaurant in Bangkok, anyway these days police come around his premises very often. Oh the fella who caused the disturbance wasn't the owner also so be wary of that, if you do employ anybody to work there.

Anyway, people will usually turn a blind eye to anything which is harmless, you should be fine

Thanks Ben, the business would be very low key, a local shop in a small Uthai Thani town (central west) run by the wife & we'd be a part of the local community with a large family in one of the neighbouring villages. However, I would prefer not to transgress any immigration rules (& so rely on the goodwill of officials), I'm wondering am I allowed to do anything at the shop floor, such as clean or even sit in the back room area during opening hours, let alone take the shoe shelves in/out for opening hours.ie what will qualify as work as opposed to simply living in a shop-house.

[ben2203]

Next year I'm opening a shoe shop with the wife and am renewing my Non Imm O Visa (spouse) next month. The wife will run the shop but I'm sure I'll be roped in to help out some times. Does that fall into illegal working, any links/reliable sources to research this? Thanks.

ฺBasically yes, but it depends where you are, for instance I have a friend in the North East, who runs a steak house, farms and does all sorts of stuff. The police and immigration police visit him frequently but nobody really cares. If this was some other place south of issan though, it's sketchy.

There are plenty of teachers who work without work permits also, it just depends on how you get on with people, who you know etc.

Some people are on the make though and you could meet a particular corrupt cop or something, mostly don't give them anything or just something small and then they don't bother to come back. Usually, I think you're fine, if you are unfortunate to meet the wrong people just don't get overly friendly with them. That goes for Thai and foreigners.

Adopt to the local customs, some of the most obvious such as, when somebody dies, you should give a few baht and attend the funeral to show that you care, when somebody gets married also, if somebody is sick then go visit them in hospital etc, not much really and you usually get left alone. Don't shout at people too much etc. Imagine some random chinese guy giving the locals abuse in for example America or some such, it's not on is it?

I noticed one English fella who used to abuse some third gender people frequently just because he didn't like them, it's at a western restaurant in Bangkok, anyway these days police come around his premises very often. Oh the fella who caused the disturbance wasn't the owner also so be wary of that, if you do employ anybody to work there.

Anyway, people will usually turn a blind eye to anything which is harmless, you should be fine

Thanks Ben, the business would be very low key, a local shop in a small Uthai Thani town (central west) run by the wife & we'd be a part of the local community with a large family in one of the neighbouring villages. However, I would prefer not to transgress any immigration rules (& so rely on the goodwill of officials), I'm wondering am I allowed to do anything at the shop floor, such as clean or even sit in the back room area during opening hours, let alone take the shoe shelves in/out for opening hours.ie what will qualify as work as opposed to simply living in a shop-house.

Suss it out with the local officials there, mostly they don't really care that much as long as you're not making too much bother for them anyway.

But if you want to do things by the book then that's possible too, but you have to make a successful business first to make it worthwhile right.

I mean if all you are going to be doing is sweeping floors and carrying some shoes to the front of the shop, is there any real point?

[ben2203]

anugoon

Among the many prohibited occupations are ....................

Service business: Accounting, farming animals, architecture, advertising, brokerage, auctioning, Barber, hair dressing & beautician. Building industry.

Thank you for let me know. Other member here said that I can work or get a work permit if I am a 48% partner in the company with my 51% wife and other 1% shareholder, and no needs for employees. Is that true?

Depends on type of business too, i think.

My old boss was American with a Thai wife, he basically does all the work but he mentioned he needed 7 thais for every one foreigner or such. Go to the local labour office and get your wife to speak with them.

[elliottm]

Next year I'm opening a shoe shop with the wife and am renewing my Non Imm O Visa (spouse) next month. The wife will run the shop but I'm sure I'll be roped in to help out some times. Does that fall into illegal working, any links/reliable sources to research this? Thanks.

ฺBasically yes, but it depends where you are, for instance I have a friend in the North East, who runs a steak house, farms and does all sorts of stuff. The police and immigration police visit him frequently but nobody really cares. If this was some other place south of issan though, it's sketchy.

There are plenty of teachers who work without work permits also, it just depends on how you get on with people, who you know etc.

Some people are on the make though and you could meet a particular corrupt cop or something, mostly don't give them anything or just something small and then they don't bother to come back. Usually, I think you're fine, if you are unfortunate to meet the wrong people just don't get overly friendly with them. That goes for Thai and foreigners.

Adopt to the local customs, some of the most obvious such as, when somebody dies, you should give a few baht and attend the funeral to show that you care, when somebody gets married also, if somebody is sick then go visit them in hospital etc, not much really and you usually get left alone. Don't shout at people too much etc. Imagine some random chinese guy giving the locals abuse in for example America or some such, it's not on is it?

I noticed one English fella who used to abuse some third gender people frequently just because he didn't like them, it's at a western restaurant in Bangkok, anyway these days police come around his premises very often. Oh the fella who caused the disturbance wasn't the owner also so be wary of that, if you do employ anybody to work there.

Anyway, people will usually turn a blind eye to anything which is harmless, you should be fine

Thanks Ben, the business would be very low key, a local shop in a small Uthai Thani town (central west) run by the wife & we'd be a part of the local community with a large family in one of the neighbouring villages. However, I would prefer not to transgress any immigration rules (& so rely on the goodwill of officials), I'm wondering am I allowed to do anything at the shop floor, such as clean or even sit in the back room area during opening hours, let alone take the shoe shelves in/out for opening hours.ie what will qualify as work as opposed to simply living in a shop-house.

Suss it out with the local officials there, mostly they don't really care that much as long as you're not making too much bother for them anyway.

But if you want to do things by the book then that's possible too, but you have to make a successful business first to make it worthwhile right.

I mean if all you are going to be doing is sweeping floors and carrying some shoes to the front of the shop, is there any real point?

I agree with everything you say, my worry is the Mrs will be giving up a 10 year career in BKK & I'm reading that a business with 1m bt capital & Thai employees should already be up & running to apply for a WP and I wouldn't want to be classed as working in the meantime when doing no more than household chores (including shop floor) and keeping the wife company at the back office/living area.

Another worry is that if I helped buy any stock whether I'm automatically considered as running a business without a WP or Non-Imm 'B' business visa.

[ben2203]

Funnily enough I am just watching UK Border Force.

You should get proper legal advice perhaps, but my opinion is that with your wife being Thai and with her basically controlling everything, you having a proper visa in place, i.e. a marriage visa. No one will really bat a proverbial eyelid if you're simply residing at the address so long as you do all the reporting and go there once a year to extend your visa.

There was some law sometime ago about not being able to front the money for a Thai wife but I think that has pretty much been done away with through too much backlash probably. It was something to do with Thai wives of foreigners losing their rights to own land in Thailand. Anyway it was abolished as I am to believe.

If however you want be more hands on in your business then, yeah, go about getting the proper documentation, basically immigration office and then the labour office, you need a letter from your employer stating that she really needs you to work there, plus business registration documents I guess.

When I had a work permit, the school was well known so I just needed a letter from the school and then they stamped my passport and then told me to go to the labour office to get the work permit. It's going to take a lot of initial work but after that if you are just renewing then it will get easier.

Still a lot of work to do though to basically sweep floors and do accounts or what not.

Edited October 16, 2013 by ben2203

[elliottm]

Funnily enough I am just watching UK Border Force.

You should get proper legal advice perhaps, but my opinion is that with your wife being Thai and with her basically controlling everything, you having a proper visa in place, i.e. a marriage visa. No one will really bat a proverbial eyelid if you're simply residing at the address so long as you do all the reporting and go there once a year to extend your visa.

There was some law sometime ago about not being able to front the money for a Thai wife but I think that has pretty much been done away with through too much backlash probably. It was something to do with Thai wives of foreigners losing their rights to own land in Thailand. Anyway it was abolished as I am to believe.

If however you want be more hands on in your business then, yeah, go about getting the proper documentation, basically immigration office and then the labour office, you need a letter from your employer stating that she really needs you to work there, plus business registration documents I guess.

When I had a work permit, the school was well known so I just needed a letter from the school and then they stamped my passport and then told me to go to the labour office to get the work permit. It's going to take a lot of initial work but after that if you are just renewing then it will get easier.

Still a lot of work to do though to basically sweep floors and do accounts or what not.

I really want the path of least resistance while sticking to the immigration/labour law:

"Work" means engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits (Alien Working Act).

Although a visa company said just move things round with the shutter down & a lawyer said no need to be paranoid....while then going on to tell me a French man got deported for 5 years watering the plants of his Mrs' flower shop, Doh!!!

Funnily both said something like don't upset the police or your competitors as a previous poster implied, so looks like it could come down to circumstance rather than black and white legal, exactly what I'd like to avoid.

[peergin]

If you have some special craftsmanship or knowledge which Thai cannot do or know, here is a way to do.

My wife (Thai) and me started a company based on 1 million capital.

3 shareholders were needed. No need for staff!

My wife is the director, owing 51 %, myself am shareholder for 48% (foreigner) and there is this third party with 1%. We actually got married after the setup of the company, then got my visa extension based on marriage an applied after this for a work permit. My specialty was Dutch Chef for our factory making Dutch fast food and specialties. As long as your turnover is lower than 1,2 M Thai baht, you are exempted from VAT admin and payment.

Ok, if you don't have the distinctive skills you need some staff.

Hugo,

What kind of Dutch specialties do you prepare and where can they be bought? I have been away from Holland (A'dam) for half a century but haven't forgotten croquetten, bitterballen, enz. I live in Chiangmai and I think you do too. Would appreciate your reply. Regards.