The West Of The Family, A Comment On Sinsod And Parents

[cygnusx-1]

HOLY COW! I have been reading some of the posts and many of you make westerners, specifically Americans out to be cold-hearted! The republican party aside, we are not!

You would be hard-pressed to find any American who would turn their back on any member of their family in a time of hardship. Illness, finacial woes, whatever. If they need our help, we will be their for them up to an including living with them. It is stupid to think that we would just say "oh no, you got hurt and cannot work and you will lose your house and your car and everything else? gee pop, that's a shame."

We are an indepentent society. Like other mammals, we live at home and learn how to fend for ourselves and after a time we venture on our own to make a life for ourselves. Whether we had it better at home is not the issue, we want to make it on our own if we can. Some do, some do not. Those that do not will usually, for a time, end up back with their parents.

Putting parents in nursing homes? Not unheard of. But usually, when our parents reach the golden years, they want to be with people their own age, so they usually choose to live in a retirement community of some sort. A nursing home is generally for parents who require special needs and care that, unless the son or daughter is very rich and can afford to personally take care of them, then a nursing home is an attractive offer. The kids usually pay for it or insurance does. Sometimes social security or medicaid will or the place will be ran by some charity.

As I have read more and more, I notice that many state that Thailand does not have things like government programs to care for the elderly, so it is up to the children (and i have noticed, the onus is onthe daughter more than the son) to take care of them. When world's collide.

The way this is talked about makes it seem that Thailand is a third-world backwater that has yet to get electricity. This, we all know is false. Thailand is a developing, modern nation with a strong economy for the region that is continues to grow at a nice clip. Also, it makes America out to be a nation where every one is rich and taken care of by the government. That could not be further from the truth.

Yes, we have a lot of wealth here. We also have a lot of poverty. There are parts of this country that could -quite literally- pass for a "third-world backwater." Marriages there are usually arranged and there is some sort of "dowry" paid. Usually a favor, some agrarian deal is made, or something traded. This is where I want to start myargument about the "sinsod"

Economic disparity is everywhere. When Bill Gate's daughter gets married to, say, someone who makes US$20,000/year, should she be expected to give a chunk of her stake in MicroSoft to the grooms family? I mentioned that sometimes something is traded, this is usually a cow or some other farm animal or implement. This is where the whole 'sinsod' idea starts to get muddied with the idea that people, women, are treated as a commodity. To the uninitiated, it makes it seem that in Thailand, daughters are bred to be sold.

You can twist it anyway you want, but when money has to change hands in order for a man to marry, then the idea of buying a commdity takes hold. Also, as I understand it, if the marriage fails, the man does not get the money back and the woman goes "back on the market", I think if there was a guarantee of some kind, then Americans would buy into this idea a little more.

Would it be fair for the man to bring a lawyer to draw up a contract (that is very common in the states now) what we call a "prenuptual agreement" which basically states who gets what should a divorce happen. How well does that idea sit in the Thai culture? If a dollar amount can be put on love, then why can't a contract be written? Many Thai girls I talk to said they will not sign a contract. See the culture clash coming to play?

That is all for now, I will answer replies as I have time to.

[ProfessorFart]

I'm beginning to think there should be a Sinsod branch..........ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[tyler2uk]

And your point is cygnusx-1??????

Must of took a long time to write all that!

Chill out dude the weather is wonderful..

[crocodilexp]

Well, I do have an anecdote to tell as far as Americans being compassionate with family are concerned. My friend's brother is a very successful doctor, and has made quite decent money over the years (lives in a $5 million home). She went to see him for a minor ailment, and he had the cheek to send her the bill (his own sister!). They are on good terms, and she's middle class (not that it matters).

Yes, there are examples to the contrary, but in the USA, there is no cultural expectation to be close to family members. Most Americans are good people, and would help others in need (not only family), but the society discourages most human contact.

[a2396]

I agree with your observations. I think there is much double standard thinking regarding Thai lady/farang man pairings in LOS. I had an American friend who was engaged to a Thai lady and intended to have her sign a pre-nup. I have heard they have since parted and this could be the reason. I think there is many cases of farangs being "railroaded" into some type of marriage agreement before adequate time has passed for the couple to become thoroughly aquainted. I am talking about 6 monts to one year. The local "minders" like to have you headed for marital bliss as soon as possible and will tell you Thai women don't have sex before marriage, etc, etc. Total B.S. They want dowery ( a big as they can get away with), a monthly stipend for the wife and a monthly stipend for the family, if they can get away with it. And don't forget to buy the house and car, in her name only of course. And oh yes, you could help set them up in establishing a business. One more thing - she may not like sex after marriage either, or at least certain tings under certain conditions. I would make sure everything is given a complete "test drive" before you put your neck in the noose or you will regret it such as I have. Thankfully they are not all like this, but a disgustingly high percentage seem to follow this pattern.

[britmaveric]

[Dakhar]

I have a brother that is a lawyer, and he has in the past charged me for his services, that were done in a half a## manner. Then I had to pay an accountant to do the job I paid hem for. The accountant was an old friend of mine, that wanted to help me out for free....

I think it just depends on the person, and not so much the culture. For me, I would feel honored if a family member approached me for help. I would gladly give as much as I possible can. I have in the past given to good friends. Trully, I doubt my siblings would ask anything out of me, because they all have more than I.

Sinsod....

Sad to say, I did not pay a penney. I probably never will, and we have been married for 6 years now. I met my wife in the states while she was working on her M.A. degree. We got married, and I put her through the rest of her education. At times her mother would actually send us money, we never asked... but if she heard that a car was needing repair etc. she would seen a couple 100 US to us. Most times my wife would not even tell me about it.

My point is, my mother-in-law was willing to sacrifice at a great level....

My view of SinSod, is that in a way, it shows honor and respect to your bride. It shows that you value her... But I will agree is smells like a heartless business venture.

[Heng]

Putting parents in nursing homes? Not unheard of. But usually, when our parents reach the golden years, they want to be with people their own age, so they usually choose to live in a retirement community of some sort. A nursing home is generally for parents who require special needs and care that, unless the son or daughter is very rich and can afford to personally take care of them, then a nursing home is an attractive offer. The kids usually pay for it or insurance does. Sometimes social security or medicaid will or the place will be ran by some charity.

Sounds like rationalizing putting one's folks in nursing homes. I spend quite a bit of time stateside and in Thailand, and there are plenty of folks in nursing homes in America who don't have "special needs" and are only there because they have no one who wants to care for them.

There are a handful of such homes popping up in Thailand, but nothing like the industry it is in America. I bet there are plenty of fogies around here in their 60's to 80's who don't feel the need to hang out in a community of old strangers.

Barring intensive care type equipment, care for the elderly is hardly something only the wealthy can afford. I've seen a lot of elders go. In my experience, medical costs don't even start to seriously escalate until the last 10-30 days of their lives (of course results will vary out there).... until then they are surrounded by children, grandchildren, cousins, etc.... with folks they are related to and look up to them. Not to mention at the same time providing the invaluable lessons they can teach to the next generation, particularly those concerning legacy.

Edited April 28, 2006 by Heng

[sierra01]

Well, I do have an anecdote to tell as far as Americans being compassionate with family are concerned. My friend's brother is a very successful doctor, and has made quite decent money over the years (lives in a $5 million home). She went to see him for a minor ailment, and he had the cheek to send her the bill (his own sister!). They are on good terms, and she's middle class (not that it matters).

Yes, there are examples to the contrary, but in the USA, there is no cultural expectation to be close to family members. Most Americans are good people, and would help others in need (not only family), but the society discourages most human contact.

My wife is Thai, and we wanted to borrow her brother's pick up for the day. He never uses it, too drunk most of the time. He charged us 700bt. I did it that time, but never again. As they say, what goes round comes round, I'll bide my time His own sister, geez.

[BKK90210]

It's so funny my experience is like this....

I met my thai wife while she's studying in the same university here in the US. She's from upper class thai, her father 's one of the big developer in Bkk. All her brothers and sister had gone to England to study except her. She likes US better. The family even has 2 sois named after the family's lastname in Bkk - Ladpao area. Anyway we have been married now for 20 yrs and no sin-sot paid. She's actualy against me paying for sinsot because she thinks it's so outdated custom and making her feel "a bought bride" (her word)....plus she wants me to save the money for the school. We were married while I was doing my Master and she's still in undergrad program. She thinks that we will stick together no matter what... for better or worse, with or without sinsot.....because she LOVE ME. We got married in the US in front of the judge for only $35 and paid for dinner afterward with our 2 friends (acting as witnesses), these were all I had to pay. The meaning of marriage to her is about making the money and future together and sharing it with each other... and not about whether I can support her outright & upfront or not, ....that she said we will make it together somehow if we love each other. She even prepared to run away with me if her family disagreed into this... Her family just only want her to be happy so they agreed into it. I guess it depends on each family values, needs and wants. I know she values me as a person more than my money!...because I didn't have any at that time.

And now after 20 some odd yrs in the US, having had accumulated acadamic degrees, work and life experiences, along with money, we're moving back to thailand for the next venture of our life.

Edited April 28, 2006 by BKK90210