Ministers dispute Thai rice-pledging loss figure

[webfact]

CONTROVERSIAL RICE SCHEME
Ministers dispute rice-pledging loss figure
NAKARIN SRILERT,
PETCHANET PRATRUANGKRAI
THE NATION



BANGKOK: -- THREE ECONOMIC ministers involved in the rice-pledging scheme yesterday came out to defend the government in the face of criticism by academics and a former minister over what they claimed was a massive loss to date.

The ministers said the loss should not in fact exceed Bt100 billion a year, while insisting that the government would continue with the pledging programme.

Their defence of the scheme followed comments by former deputy prime minister and ex-Bank of Thailand chief MR Pridiyathorn Devakula and the Thailand Development Research Institute that two years of pledging had created a cumulative loss of Bt425 billion.

Of this amount, only Bt210 billion had gone to farmers, but more than Bt115 billion had benefited other persons, according to Pridiyathorn and the TDRI.

Deputy Prime Minister Niwatthumrong Boonsongpaisan said the accusation was false.

The information and figures revealed by Pridiyathorn are too concise and have not been proved, he said, adding that anyone in possession of information about corruption in the rice-pledging scheme should share it with the government, so that it could be investigated.

"Pledging was a choice made by farmers, and it has been created to help farmers. The Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives has directly transferred Bt330 billion from the pledging project budget to 2 million farmers. Besides farmers, nobody can earn money from the pledging," he said.

Niwatthumrong said the government would only tot up the total loss from the scheme after selling all its stockpiles of pledged rice.

The latest balance account was undertaken in January, which showed losses of about Bt100 billion a year, he said.

The minister also explained that without pledging, farmers would earn only Bt7,000 a tonne, while the scheme meant they could bring in about Bt11,000 per tonne. Deputy PM and Finance Minister Kittiratt Na-Ranong said the government would continue the pledging scheme as it benefited farmers.

However, the administration is prepared to listen to all concerns and suggestions about the programme, he said.

He said Pridiyathorn should be careful about expressing his opinion, as there was a difference between a loss-on-account balance and an actual loss.

"I understand that some economists are not educated about accounting. Any figures referring to losses should be presented with care," said Kittiratt.

He added that the government would have an adequate budget to continue its rice-pledging scheme, as the Cabinet's authorised limit was as high as Bt500 billion. Deputy Commerce Minister Yanyong Phuangrach, meanwhile, said the government's pledging was aimed at helping farmers, and it was normal to face losses in such a programme.

However, the losses would not be as high as critics have claimed, and should not be more than Bt100 billion a year, he said.Yanyong said that if the government faced a huge loss of Bt425 billion, as Pridiyathorn and the TDRI claimed was the case, it would need to sell rice at a very low price - at less than half its costs, which would be impossible.


-- The Nation 2013-10-17

[NongKhaiKid]

As the other newspaper points out Kittirat was right in there with denials the figures were accurate but wouldn't give any official ones in response.

It's hardly likely that he would or ever will since the scheme is such a financial disaster that the truth would be damning so the government will keep stalling and extending the time frame they supposedly need to conduct a full and accurate assessment.

They know the situation now but cannot and will not make it public.

[slapout]

How many times and how many people have to point out and report corruption before this and other law enforcement agencies acknowledge it and do something? The have found that rice quanity is less than pledged, foreign rice was entered into the scheme and they are still asking for more help????

Both ministeries need to be cleaned out from the top down, press charges against them for malfeasense in office, derilection of duty, and any other charges that could be even be remotely entertained. Its too bad stupid is not a political crime, most of Thalands problems would disappear as would many other countries, if it were.

[notmyself]

I understand that some economists are not educated about accounting

And how many ministers are 'in charge' of a field they know nothing about? Laughable.

Edited October 17, 2013 by notmyself

[chainarong]

Stop the buss, will the PTP put the figures out to an independent accounts , this will stop all this unbelievable rot about the rice scheme, unfortunately, will the figures that be provided , be the truth or a false set of feel good ones, the distrust for the truth from the PTP beggars belief on any issue , so history wont be made on this subject.

[meatboy]

of course the figures are not accurate its double that.

[cloudhopper]

" Besides farmers, nobody can earn money from the pledging," he said."

[moe666]

I guess he forgot about the millers and the fact that most of the farmers who benefit are rich to start with as they are about the only ones who qualify

[Nickymaster]

Niwatthumrong said the government would only tot up the total loss from the scheme after selling all its stockpiles of pledged rice

And we all know it will never happen. This sums up the whole scam. They are using the oldest accounting trick in the books. 2 years into the scam and still no official figures from this arrogant government. Don't expect any figures until maybe after the next elections.

Poor Thailand... or..

[soi41]

A situation like this is to be expected with an airhead government elected by:

The only numbers of interest for everyone involved in this scam is the one on their statements from their offshore accounts!

[AleG]

"Pledging was a choice made by farmers, and it has been created to help farmers. The Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives has directly transferred Bt330 billion from the pledging project budget to 2 million farmers. Besides farmers, nobody can earn money from the pledging," he said.

Oh really? Then were did the other 300 or so billion went?

This is a shameles farce.

[kirk0233]

In addition to the loss on the rice , what is the loss on storage? I don't these figures have ever been revelaed or estimated.

[tominbkk]

How anybody in government could ever be taken seriously at this point is beyond me.

[Ricardo]

The government should release their own detailed figures in response, so that the losses-to-date & likely future-losses can be calculated, or stop making unbelievable counter-claims like this.

And BAAC have surely reported handing-out much more than 330 million, over two years, on this scam ?

Which is why they keep having to demand back-payment, from the slow-to-pay government, and raising their own borrowing-limits ?

[MaxLee]

The ministers defend the scheme, because they are the only ones who reap the benefits from the program, all profits for themselves

[GeorgeO]

As the other newspaper points out Kittirat was right in there with denials the figures were accurate but wouldn't give any official ones in response.

It's hardly likely that he would or ever will since the scheme is such a financial disaster that the truth would be damning so the government will keep stalling and extending the time frame they supposedly need to conduct a full and accurate assessment.

They know the situation now but cannot and will not make it public.

How about, just for argument's sake, setting aside the issue of differences of opinion on the total amount.

THB 100 billion per year equates roughly to 3,300,000,000 US Dollars per year, and they are happy to continue with this....?!

As I've said in the past, we will not know the full amount until these "politicians" are swept from office and the truth becomes known, at which point, I suspect that we are going to find that the real figure is overwhelming....!

[klauskunkel]

1 + 1 just doesn't make 2...

[tomross46]

It is called accounting. How many sets books do they have? or is it " What figures do you want, just tell me me and we will create them"

[slapout]

Just to point out another figure that one of the two minstries ( the article was not real clear on who was speaking), just threw out, 11,000 baht/ton to farmers, when the offical pledge rates are 15,000 and 20,000 baht/ton. I really do not care which accounting method is used or what it is called, someone and its is not the farmer (by their own admission) is raking a enormous sum off the top, up front.

Thailand export figures prior to this government,are about 30% jasmine rice (20,000 baht/ton) and 70% other, at (15,000 baht/ton) on exporrts of 10.3+_ million ton. The 2011 export had to be grain harvested prior to this program, the stored rice lost in a few fires would have been the same as would the 9 billion baht worth, (no weight figure provided) that the Commerce declared they donated to some un named receiptent.

As I mentioned in my first post on this article, both these minestries are up to their neck in this scam as are a few more Ag. ministry, Interior, ministry, etc. The people involved are in Thailand so the Attorney General and other relivent enforcement agencies should not have this cited barrier to overcome, for legal action to be undertaken post haste.

[waza]

Ministers dispute Thai rice-pledging loss figure

HMS Thai-tanic has hit a riceberg and is slowly sinking under an ocean of debt, but the organ grinder keeps playing and the monkeys keep dancing.

[MaxLee]

Remember Kittirath's words: "It is ethical to white lie" in Thailand aka the future SHINA, er China

[Roadman]

Just to point out another figure that one of the two minstries ( the article was not real clear on who was speaking), just threw out, 11,000 baht/ton to farmers, when the offical pledge rates are 15,000 and 20,000 baht/ton. I really do not care which accounting method is used or what it is called, someone and its is not the farmer (by their own admission) is raking a enormous sum off the top, up front.

Thailand export figures prior to this government,are about 30% jasmine rice (20,000 baht/ton) and 70% other, at (15,000 baht/ton) on exporrts of 10.3+_ million ton. The 2011 export had to be grain harvested prior to this program, the stored rice lost in a few fires would have been the same as would the 9 billion baht worth, (no weight figure provided) that the Commerce declared they donated to some un named receiptent.

As I mentioned in my first post on this article, both these minestries are up to their neck in this scam as are a few more Ag. ministry, Interior, ministry, etc. The people involved are in Thailand so the Attorney General and other relivent enforcement agencies should not have this cited barrier to overcome, for legal action to be undertaken post haste.

You mean the Attorney General and other relevant enforcement agencies under the control of Thaksin and Pheu Thai? They only pursue their opposition. Welcome to the quickly shaping Thaksinland.

[smedly]

The government refuses to give figures because they refuse to include stored unsold rice in any financial calculation, (were most of the rice exists) PTP need to learn some basic accounting skills, if this was a public company they'd be forced to give quarterly reports of accounts including the value of inventory- PTP would all be in jail, it is a shame that they can get away with this crap

They say they can only put a figure on it when all the stored rice is sold - so that means never as they will always have stored rice in this scheme - it really is shocking for a government to be acting this way and the bill for the tax payer when all this is exposed (if ever) will make a loan for 2 trillion baht look trivial and will be impossible to investigate were all the money actually went

Edited October 17, 2013 by smedly

[Baerboxer]

And so the pantomime goes on. "Everybody's figures but ours are wrong. But we can't tell you our figures, we're still assessing them. But we know yours must be wrong and ours will be right". This just goes on, and on and on................ and no one will no the truth until a different government is elected to office and has to deal with the resulting problems.

The more lies organizations get away with, the bolder and more numerous the lies become. Eventually, they say anything, no matter how ridiculous and no matter they're not prepared to justify it.

[khunken]

Pridiyathorn is wrong, the World Bank is wrong, Bloomberg is wrong, the whistleblower is wrong & so it goes on.

It's not economic or accounting skills that is need - it's honesty which these ministers can't allow for one minute or they would be out of a job.

[rubl]

"BAAC handed out THB 330 bilion directly to farmers"

Was that 2011/2012 only, or all of 2011/2013 ? The non-revolving fund had to be increased from 500 to 700 billion as sales were somewhat slow. A mere 100++ billion is needed to cover 2013/2014.

And the most remarkable statement is at the end where it seems some of the thruth is revealed:

"Yanyong said that if the government faced a huge loss of Bt425 billion, as Pridiyathorn and the TDRI claimed was the case, it would need to sell rice at a very low price - at less than half its costs, which would be impossible"

[ableguy]

Only farmers can benefit from the rice pledging. Scheme ? What planet is this guy from ???

[ableguy]

As the other newspaper points out Kittirat was right in there with denials the figures were accurate but wouldn't give any official ones in response.

It's hardly likely that he would or ever will since the scheme is such a financial disaster that the truth would be damning so the government will keep stalling and extending the time frame they supposedly need to conduct a full and accurate assessment.

They know the situation now but cannot and will not make it public.

How about, just for argument's sake, setting aside the issue of differences of opinion on the total amount.

THB 100 billion per year equates roughly to 3,300,000,000 US Dollars per year, and they are happy to continue with this....?!

As I've said in the past, we will not know the full amount until these "politicians" are swept from office and the truth becomes known, at which point, I suspect that we are going to find that the real figure is overwhelming....!

And the guilty will be living in Singapore too sick to travel, but don't forget square face said it would take 4 years before the scheme showed a profit .

[belg]

give money to poor farmers so that can buy land with it (only) so they should not be slaves anymore from the masters that live far away and control the rental prices that can go up any time

one time subsidy would be 100x more effective than inflated prices for rice

[bigbamboo]

I would imagine the World Bank might just be wondering if it really ought to lend any money to these guys.