Four Children Electrocuted In Chiang Mai

[george]

Four children electrocuted in Chiang Mai

CHIANG MAI: -- Four children were electrocuted from short circuit from wielding shop when they swam in a canal near the shop, police reported.

The accident happened at 4 pm in Saraphee district.

Their bodies were found floating on the canal near the wielding shop. They were identified as Saneh Chumchai, 11, Kornwit Luangoonjai, 10, Netr Khanthawong, 9, and Pitchaya Khampao, 10.

Police said the shop owner would be charged for negligence causing death.

Police said the shop ground their electric wielding machine and after it rained, the current apparently leaked to the bridge over the canal and electrocuted the children in the canal.

--The Nation 2006-04-28

[Thaising]

Another sad news.

[A. BOOZER]

Four children electrocuted in Chiang Mai

CHIANG MAI: -- Four children were electrocuted from short circuit from wielding shop when they swam in a canal near the shop, police reported.

--The Nation 2006-04-28

Tragic! Such a terrible thing to happen.

[BlackJack]

wow must have been some amps running through his equipment

poor kids

[Martin]

Probably there was not anything whatsoever wrong with his equipment, or his 'grounding' system.

Human bodies immersed in water are vulnerable to very small currents that are on their way through the main body of the Earth.

A vehicle battery getting a very small proportion of its current back by parallel paths through the ground (just due to wet tyres) has been known to kill cattle drinking from a cattle trough in the farmyard that the vehicle was parked in.

This is a tragic accident.

[mickmac]

"wow must have been some amps running through his equipment"

If the

voltage is right 16 mamps can kill.

But as you say," an awful tragedy"

[jaapfries]

Four children electrocuted in Chiang Mai

CHIANG MAI: -- Four children were electrocuted from short circuit from wielding shop when they swam in a canal near the shop, police reported.

=================================================================

This is one very devastating accidental coincidence.

Our thoughts are with the parents, family and friends of these young people.

Life's a mystery.

[Upcountry]

Interesting that the shop owner was charged (no pun intended, right?) unless he did the electrical work himself. Try asking an electrician for grounding in LOS, and you never know what you'll get.

I found a spike in the brick of the attic instead of wires to a three-foot spike in the ground a while back. I can't buy a three-prong extension cord at the hyper marts. It's not taken seriously enough.

[re_fuse]

A very sad story indeed.

I think some welders suck out 400 Amps

[skippybangkok]

Very sad indeed. I have done some welding, and have never ever heard of something like this....... how on earth can this happen.

[ThaiPauly]

Being a Chiang Mai resident... this is terrible news.. What a terrible waste of such young Lives.. We thought we were over the worst with Songkran now over

I know the families will not be reading this forum..but still.. what can one say at a time like this?

[Chua]

Tragic for anyone to be killed no matter what the cicrumstances.

I feel badly for their friends and families.

I feel even worse for the poor welder who obviously had no idea what he was doing wrong or would have never done it.

Yet, the story does not seem correct.... I wasn EE major and I understand electricity... For one to be electrocuted, one must be the path of least resistance in an electric circuit. The explnation reported does not seem plausible, unless they some how came in contract with the + and - terminals of the welding equipment wires or terminals, or touched some part of the equipment.

Cattle drinking water out of troughs touch the metal lining of the basin, but children in a stream are just in water, which, even if it is salted ocean water, is a poor conductor at best, and one would wonder how there could possibly been a current flowing from one point in the river to another unless the welder left his torch submerged under water.

[Peter_in_Frankfurt]

Being a Chiang Mai resident... this is terrible news.. What a terrible waste of such young Lives.. We thought we were over the worst with Songkran now over

I know the families will not be reading this forum..but still.. what can one say at a time like this?

Could someone in Chiang Mai, on behalf of this forum, send flowers? Next time I visit, I will pay my share.

[astral]

Yet, the story does not seem correct.... I wasn EE major and I understand electricity... For one to be electrocuted, one must be the path of least resistance in an electric circuit. The explnation reported does not seem plausible, unless they some how came in contract with the + and - terminals of the welding equipment wires or terminals, or touched some part of the equipment.

A sad tragedy, but as Chua says it does not ring true.

IMO Simply being in the water would not have cause death.

The electricity, and it only takes a few milliamps, has to flow through body to cause death.

This is why birds can land one high voltage power cables quite safely. No path to earth!!

If the children were simply swimming this is highly unlikey.

I suspect there is something more sinister here.........???

Perhaps the bodies were thrown in the canal afterwards to cover up????

[Lancashirelad]

Police said the shop ground their electric welding machine and after it rained, the current apparently leaked to the bridge over the canal and electrocuted the children in the canal.

Very sad indeed. Think this is the bit some posters have failed to read. Sounds to me like when the ground is wet & they are welding, it is making the (presumably metal) bridge live.

If the kids have touched the bridge AND ground or water at the same time, that would surely fry them. But all 4 at once is still a mystery?

I'm 47 & have wanted children for the past 17 years, i can't imagine what it must be like to lose a child of this (or any) age.

[ventureline]

Very sad indeed. I have done some welding, and have never ever heard of something like this....... how on earth can this happen.

Can't see the welder output being at fault, had to have been the primary going into it, a welder might push 300 amps at 32 voltsdc, but nothing would happen if you held both the pos and neg terminals, other than a little shiver. Even an AC welder doesn't push enough voltage to do much. However, the input at 220volts single or 3 phase at 100 amps will kill you imediately.

I don't see too many thailand electricains with proper or any meters, to verify input power to a building, let alone poperly grounded building wiring. Most of the time I have seen an Electician checking wiring by licking his fingers and zapping himself to check if the wires are "hot" or not.

Kinda freaks me out to see that........

Jeff Amos

Welder tech

[cmiuc]

Wow such news...

I guess nothing else is going on in LOS...

I wonder how many people per day get killed in LOS by other means... such as the totally bad driving in LOS...

[TRD LOVER]

Four children electrocuted in Chiang Mai

CHIANG MAI: -- Four children were electrocuted from short circuit from wielding shop when they swam in a canal near the shop, police reported.

The accident happened at 4 pm in Saraphee district.

Their bodies were found floating on the canal near the wielding shop. They were identified as Saneh Chumchai, 11, Kornwit Luangoonjai, 10, Netr Khanthawong, 9, and Pitchaya Khampao, 10.

Police said the shop owner would be charged for negligence causing death.

Police said the shop ground their electric wielding machine and after it rained, the current apparently leaked to the bridge over the canal and electrocuted the children in the canal.

--The Nation 2006-04-28

OH MY DEAR GOD.. I am so sad to read this post.. I was driving to Burma on a "border run" yesterday.. the weather was so bad.. the rain was was and is overwelming now... here in the north.

The roads are so bad.. driving was horrible.. Then after my power came back I decided to open my emails... to find this one posted by George...

I am just sick.. I have two boys 7 & 3 year olds who play all the time in the small pool and I know how much these kids love the water and the rain.. The canels are full now and kids will be kids.. but where were the parents??? To allow your kids to swim in a canal at that age alone is the real crime.

The welder is the same as all the people here who run shadey businesses.. Safety is not a concern to most Thai men in the welding trade.. I know as I hire them to build for me and see the way they work..sunglasses instead of a proper face shield and proper eye protection.. pluging into a socket with two live wires.. improper this and that.. it is really a joke how these guys seem to think it is okay to work.. I had all new wiring done just to use my welder here at my home and then find the workers taking certain freedoms to bypass what I had set up.. Who fault?? Mine for not demanding it all to be done according to the OSHA rules I remember back in the states. This sort of thing is tragic and I am so sad for the moms and dads of thoise kids.. but as far as saying I am sorry about the shop owner.. NO WAY.. he should be give some electic shocks to show him the way they died.

Let him feel the pain as well as jail time as well.. BS is anyone think different.. He was a lazy sod who did not comply with simple rules of the welding trade.. I say make him a new "one" and make him pay all costs..

So many Thai MEN get away with murder here.. and the police do nothing. FRY HIM!

[thymode91]

My condolence to the family of victims.

[rcav8r]

I can't buy a three-prong extension cord at the hyper marts. It's not taken seriously enough.

Yes, a real and totally unnecessary tragedy for the survivors. We can only hope the children didn't suffer overly. I can't believe the offered theory. It had to be the mains supply wire going into the welder was faulty - quite likely what happened is the wire - which was sure to be faulty through previous misuse - somehow got into the water .......... !!!???

Again, in the LOS, it's lack of education and inadequate enfocement. If you like living here, then you had better get used to the idea of looking after yourself. Don't expect the government to do it for you.

Beware when buying 3-prong extension cords.[/u]

Yes, the socket and switch panel may have the 3-prongs you're looking for BUT - BUT - check the other end of the wire - does it have a 2-prong or a 3-prong plug ?

And even this is no guarantee ......... I have cords with a 3-prong plug and socket at each end but the wire in between is only a 2-core cable so the third connection at plug and socket is redundant, that is, the safety aspect of the earthed wire has been defeated ! Some cords are sold with 3-prong socket outlets but 2-prong plugs - it would be useless to think "I can fit a 3-prong plug myself" as the wire itself is only 2-core.

To be 100% sure, check the coding or legend printed on the outside surface of the wire. It's about 15 centimeters (6 inches) long - the bit you're looking for will look something like this ....

'2 X ??' or '3 X ??' or maybe '?? X 2' or '?? X 3' ..... This is printed on at the manufacturing stage of the wire and it's the makers' statement of what they've put into that wire. It tells whether it's a 2 core or a 3 core wire. Don't believe what it says on the printed bumph of the packaging. I have a few extension cords around which were wrongly bought and mislabelled ! That was before I learnt to read the legend !

So, when buying extension cords, if you want a true and safer earthed system (no shocks when you touch electrical appliances - iron, microwave, fridge, fan etc - same for the computer and printer which work better so I'm told by my techie etc ) then make sure to check the plug, the socket AND the wire.

That is if your house is also 3-wired correctly !

And why am I so serious about this ? When we built the new house in Chiangmai, I insisted on 3 - wires throughout with 3-prong socket outlets and that 1 metre long copper rod in the ground and all the testing to make sure all was well.. Having all that done correctly and paid for it, then it would be foolish to use 2-wire 2-prong plugs and sockets - right ?

MalcolmL

[Maejo Man]

A tragic waste of young lives, the parents must be distraught.

All too common a practice in Thailand to use shoddy wiring, but having said that, the welding unit is not at fault in this instance. The output from the welder would not electrocute those children in this manner. It has to be a higher voltage somewhere, such as a faulty mains supply.

Deeply saddened.............

[slim]

Thailand has a total disregard for electrical safety.

The next time you stop to eat at your local noodle house or shop at any of your local (older) stores just take a look at the electrics. Multiple adapters joined by insulation tape, cables running everywhere.

I'd like to know how many deaths Thailand suffers per annum through electrocution.

We had an electric shower fitted in our downstairs bathroom where we live in Khon Kaen.

After the "electrician" from the store had finished it was obvious that the appliance hadn't been earthed.

When was tackled about it he said he didn't have a drill long enough to drill through the wall and take an earth outside.

In other words he couldn't be arsed if the appliance was safe or not.

You've only got to look at their 2 pin method of connecting appliances to the sockets. What imbecile came up with a method that allows a plug to fall out of a socket through gravity alone!

(mind you, Thailand isn't alone with this insane 2 pin method of plugging in appliance).

Last year, when I came back from the UK I bought a dozen pattress boxes, 3 pin face plates, plugs, extension cables and rewired most of the house.

We dont get current running through my computers, the washing machine, fridge etc etc any more.

[benlee53]

Its my understanding in thailand there is'nt a ground only a nutrual and a hot wire of 220 at 50 cycles .am I right on this?

[astral]

Its my understanding in thailand there is'nt a ground only a nutrual and a hot wire of 220 at 50 cycles .am I right on this?

This is the case in most houses and offices....................

Highly dangerous.

[phibunmike]

Its my understanding in thailand there is'nt a ground only a nutrual and a hot wire of 220 at 50 cycles .am I right on this?

That is correct. Each house SHOULD install their own earth rod, but most don't. The neutral is connected to earth at the transformer, but your local earth is to provide safety when something goes wrong.

The two-pin sockets are bad news because if you plug something in the wrong way round, the case can be live: that is why you can sometimes get a tingle off the case of a DVD player, amplifier, etc. - just reverse the mains plug.

Those "3-pin" extension cords with a two pin plug are a problem - they defeat your earthing system, I have yet to find proper 3-pin ones.

The only scenario I can think of that would explain the tragic accident is if the kids were in the canal, but hanging on to the bridge - then a current leak into the bridge would be dangerous. And even if not killed out-right by a weak current, perhaps stunned enough to drown. Terrible.

[bquick]

I had another electric shower installed last week upstairs and to ground it the guy just drilled a hole in the wall and attached the ground wire to one of them nuts that clamp inside the wall like what attaches a satellite dish to a wall.

Never seen anything like that before and was wondering would that actually work or is it just something he does to fool people who don't know better?

[NaiGreg]

Horrible! Disturbing!

I am a father but I am also an electrical engineer who finds the explanation to be short on facts. These kids were not in a bath tub. Even with Thailand's poor grounding customs, all shops & homes seem to be protected by circuit breakers and ground fault interrupters.

But beyond that the story is a little bit like saying your eye was damaged from looking at a low-power laser beam from 1000 meters. Maybe they were all clinging to the steel-"ish" framework of the bridge when shorted to a 440 VAC line. (440 VAC 3Phase is industrial standard)

btw, for those of you worried about grounding your homes.... In Thailand (and many countries) earth grounds are implemented per-appliance, not at the building service point. That means (in existing structures) you need to earth-ground individual appliances. Start with safety prong on your washing machine power cord in the laundry room! And never use plumbing pipes (infrastructure) for electrical grounds! Home Pro sells 2 meter copper rods which will do the trick.

Please do it. You might save someone's life. Even your own.

** If you have access to a VM or multi-meter, check the AC voltage between the neutral wire in your home and a "real" earthed ground. Should not be more than a few volts. Near-zero is best. If more than that you have a potentially serious problem.

-NG

[ThaiPauly]

My Wife was driving me to the dentsit this morning I saw three young boys swimming in the moat ..right next to where they are carrying out repairs using what seemed to be electrical equipment. I Could not help but think of those poor kids

[Maejo Man]

I had another electric shower installed last week upstairs and to ground it the guy just drilled a hole in the wall and attached the ground wire to one of them nuts that clamp inside the wall like what attaches a satellite dish to a wall.

Never seen anything like that before and was wondering would that actually work or is it just something he does to fool people who don't know better?

An extremely dangerous practice, considering that most houses have a "damp course" which effectively insulates the house from the ground.

Another one of their great "earthing tricks" is to earth the water heaters to the local galvanised pipe. This is all fine and dandy till you realise that this steel pipe normally changes to PVC before it gets anywhere near the ground. How many Thai houses have you seen plumbed in copper or steel?

The only way is a six foot by half inch solid copper rod driven into the ground, with a decent clamp on it wired back to your plug or appliance.

Extremely easy to do adjacent to a power plug. Drill through the wall (only single brick) and drive your rod in next to the outside wall. Then just run the earth wire through the hole from the clamp, and connect it. Dow Corning sillicone sealant will take care of sealing the wire through the wall.

If you are really worried about "buzzing fridges" and such, get an electrician in to install some earth rods, and maybe even "earth leakage protection" devices. The cost is minimal compared to your life!

Thai wiring is not a force to be trifled with!!

[Bryan in Isaan]

Horrible! Disturbing!

I am a father but I am also an electrical engineer who finds the explanation to be short on facts. These kids were not in a bath tub. Even with Thailand's poor grounding customs, all shops & homes seem to be protected by circuit breakers and ground fault interrupters.

Around here, in the Isaan villages, I doubt if many "professional" electrician would even know what a GFI is, much less think it necessary to use them. I have a brother in law who is a real electrician who does work around our amphur. He doesn't seem to care about grounding anything. I was going to have him wire my new shower heater, but changed my mind and did it myself, even though I am an absolute rookie at wiring. This half-ass attitude about safety is common throughout all aspects of life here. Safety is your responsibility - the contractor WON'T do it for you unless you force him to.

From the discussion, it sounds like one must pound a grounding rod and run a seperate wire to each appliance. Why not one good rod and run a single ground wire throughout the house. Just connect to it from each appliance. I am not cutting corners here, it just seems like this would serve the purpose.