Hauntings

[thaibebop]

I know that Thailand's movie industry spits out a lot of movies about ghosts and ghouls and all, but I wanted to know if anyone had really heard anything true?

Have you had any experiences in Thailand yourself?

Have you heard/know of a place that is haunted?

If you have a story and it's not in Thailand, that's okay too.

Thanks All!

[jackr]

They're here (global), but not many people can see/sense them

[girlx]

nana hotel is haunted for sure... had some weird experiences in there. don't ask me why i was staying there.

[Tywais]

nana hotel is haunted for sure... had some weird experiences in there. don't ask me why i was staying there.

Do tell.

A British friend of mine has a very nice garden and he photographed some leaves/flowers after a light rain. He showed them to me trying to point out faces of people in them saying they were spirits. Apparantely Thais believe that spirits can be seen in plants. But, just like clouds - one can pretty much find something in them if so inclined. I'm not so inclined.

[verzenden]

I don't experience it mysefl but i have seen people who did and i'm confident they where telling the truth. I remember when i was still in highschool. One of the students was giving a presentation and of course must have been pretty nervous. I was sitting in the back of the classroom, next to a girlfriend of me. We both didn't pay any attention to the student who was doing the presentation. Actually we where sleeping, using the table and our arms as pillows, must sound familiar. The girl next to me must have looked up and took a look at the student giving the presentation. What happenend was that she suddenly jumped out of her chair, a reaction pretty similar to cats who jump in the air when you scare them while sleeping. Her sudden reaction made me almost jump out of my chair to. Her eyes looked extremely horrified and where wide open. She completely freaked out instant. I questioned her:"What the f#, what's wrong?" She started pointing to the student giving the presentation using one of her arms. She hardly couldn't control her arm and was shivering and shaking all over while trying to avoid looking in the same direction again. Then she said:"I see a ghost directly behind the student!" Of course i didn't see a thing. It was her reaction that convinced me of her speaking the truth, she could not have acted it, and there wouldn't be a reason to act it. I've never seen somebody more scared than her again ever since, she really impressed me.

Later she told me she could hear voices as well, she explained, when people are in stress, like during an examination, and you thought something like:"F#, why this question?", she claimed to receive all those thoughts of everybody in the examination room and keeping her out of concentration all the time. Before the final exams she had spoken with the school staff, they where, lucky for her, openminded towards her problem. She made all her final exams in another room, where she could be alone.

My sister claims to see my grandmother once in a while. In my moms house the upper floor is unused but has a big beautiful room, i wish it was mine if i still was a teenager. My sisters bedroom is on the second floor and pretty small. My mom decorated the big room and putted furniture in there so my sister could move in there, this room would have been better for her since she's in puberty now and you can fit a sofa in the room as well and hang out there with friends. My sister never slept in the room and never goes up since she saw my grandmother there sitting in one of the chairs, just looking at my sister. She's still sleeps in that small room on the second floor.

Next month i'll go back to Holland for a few months and will bring my Thai gf as well, our accomodation is the big room at my moms house! I'll tell you guys here if i experience something! Think i won't tell this story to my gf, she will have us sleeping in a hotel for 3 months if i tell her

[Gazza]

Only last week there was eerie things happening in my house. One night, I went to bed with a half bottle of whiskey and in the morning..........it was empty. Also, during the night something must've hit me on the head 'cause I woke up with a throbbing headache. Whatever it was, it left a pool of sickly ectoplasm beside the bed.

[Tippaporn]

Some people can see peoples' auroas while others cannot. Just because you can't see something doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't exist. You can't see it, is all. But people generally aren't willing to believe in anything they can't experience with their physical senses.

Dogs can hear sounds that people can't. Same same.

[ThaiPauly]

Thai beleive in Ghosts for sure... thats why it is very difficult to sell a house that is not brand new!

Lats week we bought a second hand chair ...my Wife (who claims to have seen the ghost of her Mother on several occassions when she was young) wanted some kinda guarnatee that the person who owned the chair before was not dead. ! This conversation was conducted in very brisk Thai so I could not really get the gist of it.. but it was very serious.. in the end she was as satisfied as she could be so she bought it

[jackr]

Thai beleive in Ghosts for sure... thats why it is very difficult to sell a house that is not brand new!

Lats week we bought a second hand chair ...my Wife (who claims to have seen the ghost of her Mother on several occassions when she was young) wanted some kinda guarnatee that the person who owned the chair before was not dead. ! This conversation was conducted in very brisk Thai so I could not really get the gist of it.. but it was very serious.. in the end she was as satisfied as she could be so she bought it

I guess she wouldn't have moved into my old flat back home then - 250-year-old townhouse in the centre of town opposite an ancient church and adjacent to the old town hall. The crux of it was that someone was murdered in the lounge in the 1950s, of which the landlord notified me beforehand. Stayed there for couple years and no probs, although never felt quite right, especially when walking back from the bathroom at night which was at the end of a 15-metre, dimly-lit corridor downstairs.

[Carmine6]

nana hotel is haunted for sure... had some weird experiences in there. don't ask me why i was staying there.

Would be very interested in hearing about your experiences, as in what room number or floor. There have to have been some bad things that happened there over the years.

The only story I can relate is from a week or two after my father passed away. My niece was staring and waving out a side window which looks only at a concrete wall 10 feet away. There's nothing out there to look at. My sister-in-law just thought she was playing and asked her who she was waving to and she said grandpa. So she asked if he was outside and my niece said yes. Freaked my sister-in-law out.

[seonai]

For goodness sake, there are spirits/ghosts everywhere.......... not just in hotels or such like. But you just have to talk to them peacefully and ask them not to disturb you. They won't if you talk like that. Just don't scare them, they only want to do their thing.

[AmeriThai]

Some people can see peoples' auroas while others cannot. Just because you can't see something doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't exist. You can't see it, is all. But people generally aren't willing to believe in anything they can't experience with their physical senses.

Dogs can hear sounds that people can't. Same same.

“Dogs can hear sounds that people can’t. Same same.”

Not a good example because it’s understood that dogs can hear things people can’t. That has to do with frequencies and volumes that are measurable.

“You can't see it, is all. But people generally aren't willing to believe in anything they can't experience with their physical senses.”

Regarding auras (an electrical discharge or glow sometimes thought of as a person’s ‘life force’), perhaps they aren’t as ‘paranormal’ as some people might think. For example, I remember times when listening to someone drone on with a boring speech, finding myself right at the verge of nearly nodding off, but attempting to force myself to stay awake. When focusing my drowsy attention on someone, I would see what appeared to be like an ‘aura’ surrounding the person. The person would also appear to be more crisp and clear looking than the surrounding area.

A paranormal experience? Not at all. What’s happening is the body, being tired, is trying to shut itself down to sleep. As you become more tired but try to fight it, your vision can ‘narrow’ the field of view resembling what might be thought of as ‘tunnel vision’. Things outside the field of view become blurred. The same thing can happen when you’re on the verge of passing out. I’ve also been given injections to put me out for surgery and have had the same experience.

“Just because you can't see something doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't exist.”

That falls into the area of circular reasoning because it doesn’t mean it does exist either. Sometimes there are things that have more mundane explanations that the ‘observer’ isn’t aware of or doesn’t understand. When we see or experience certain kinds of phenomena that we don’t understand, our brain tries to find whatever explanation is suitable based on our personal knowledge and experiences, even if the explanation is not correct. In other words, such events can more easily be chalked off as being paranormal, when in reality it might not be at all.

“You can't see it, is all. But people generally aren't willing to believe in anything they can't experience with their physical senses.”

I disagree. We can’t see x-rays either, but we certainly have equipment that conclusively shows they exist. While there are various kinds of equipment that are thought to be able to detect certain kinds of paranormal phenomena, unfortunately, there hasn’t been any conclusive evidence that proves the phenomena because there are other known things such equipment may be detecting.

Edited April 29, 2006 by AmeriThai

[thaibebop]

Thanks for all the posts, please keep them coming. I also should encourge the debate that AmeriThai, is starting. Always been interested in spooks, but I am still waiting for the proof.

[rio666uk]

isnt it true that the human mind/brain is still vastly undiscovered - unsolved and unexplained... isnt it possible that what one assumes is paranormal or of another world is actually our own self exploring new thoughts...

if there was a medical condition that could prove that "a" happens because of "b" we would simply dismiss it because of x,y & z and then move onto something else to ponder about...

i once read that the human brain and the basic instinct for survival is unable to accept that when you die thats it - the end - no more... and it was human nature that needs to believe that it cant just end there - there must be more!

[AmeriThai]

isnt it true that the human mind/brain is still vastly undiscovered - unsolved and unexplained... isnt it possible that what one assumes is paranormal or of another world is actually our own self exploring new thoughts...

if there was a medical condition that could prove that "a" happens because of "b" we would simply dismiss it because of x,y & z and then move onto something else to ponder about...

i once read that the human brain and the basic instinct for survival is unable to accept that when you die thats it - the end - no more... and it was human nature that needs to believe that it cant just end there - there must be more!

Good points Rio. I have a few ‘paranormal’ experiences but I’ll share those a little later.

Some of what we perceive is indeed a part of exploring new thoughts. Some is retrieval of existing thoughts. And some is part of misunderstanding, which is often a part of the learning experience.

I’m inclined to think the basic instinct that strives to believe that life surely must go on after death is probably based on our experience of life itself. Is there more? Maybe or maybe not. We won’t really know until we’ve crossed that final bridge. If we’re still aware at that time, we’ll know.

Although we may not have the answers to everything, we know what it’s like to be alive. We have seen what death does to others, but we don’t know from personal experience what it’s like to be dead. Yes, I know there are some who have had life-changing NDEs which certainly appear to be authentic to those people. But there also seems to be some strong evidence that it may simply be part of the process of the body (which includes the brain) shutting itself down. It’s natural that we all want to think that life goes after death. In a physical sense, it doesn’t. But in a way, our life does indeed go on. It goes on in the mind and memory of others who knew us. And, if I may get a bit metaphysical, not only those our lives have directly touched and influenced, also many others far beyond the scope of our own acquaintances during the course of our life.

Regarding ghosts, hauntings and other similar paranormal phenomena, I’m inclined to think much of it has to do with our personal belief based on how we were raised. There are some who say they actually saw a paranormal entity. I don’t doubt they saw something, but it might not have been what they thought it was. It may have been due to a phenomena known as pareidolia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

[rio666uk]

isnt it true that the human mind/brain is still vastly undiscovered - unsolved and unexplained... isnt it possible that what one assumes is paranormal or of another world is actually our own self exploring new thoughts...

if there was a medical condition that could prove that "a" happens because of "b" we would simply dismiss it because of x,y & z and then move onto something else to ponder about...

i once read that the human brain and the basic instinct for survival is unable to accept that when you die thats it - the end - no more... and it was human nature that needs to believe that it cant just end there - there must be more!

Good points Rio. I have a few ‘paranormal’ experiences but I’ll share those a little later.

Some of what we perceive is indeed a part of exploring new thoughts. Some is retrieval of existing thoughts. And some is part of misunderstanding, which is often a part of the learning experience.

I’m inclined to think the basic instinct that strives to believe that life surely must go on after death is probably based on our experience of life itself. Is there more? Maybe or maybe not. We won’t really know until we’ve crossed that final bridge. If we’re still aware at that time, we’ll know.

Although we may not have the answers to everything, we know what it’s like to be alive. We have seen what death does to others, but we don’t know from personal experience what it’s like to be dead. Yes, I know there are some who have had life-changing NDEs which certainly appear to be authentic to those people. But there also seems to be some strong evidence that it may simply be part of the process of the body (which includes the brain) shutting itself down. It’s natural that we all want to think that life goes after death. In a physical sense, it doesn’t. But in a way, our life does indeed go on. It goes on in the mind and memory of others who knew us. And, if I may get a bit metaphysical, not only those our lives have directly touched and influenced, also many others far beyond the scope of our own acquaintances during the course of our life.

Regarding ghosts, hauntings and other similar paranormal phenomena, I’m inclined to think much of it has to do with our personal belief based on how we were raised. There are some who say they actually saw a paranormal entity. I don’t doubt they saw something, but it might not have been what they thought it was. It may have been due to a phenomena known as pareidolia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

its a worthwhile read that link youve posted - one i tend to think should not be dismissed

[verzenden]

Science makes some things very hard to prove. Like some medicine that's working but knowbody knows why & how it works. Because you can't grasp the idea it does not mean it's not there. I like to remind me to some laws of nature, one is that energy can't be lost. For me it's obvious that people who die loose energy, question remains is, where does it go?

Edited April 30, 2006 by verzenden

[cobra]

... I like to remind me to some laws of nature, one is that energy can't be lost. For me it's obvious that people who die loose energy, question remains is, where does it go?

Converted to mass and visa versa, corpse to mushrooms, worms, dust in the wind, .... that's where your energy went,

[verzenden]

... I like to remind me to some laws of nature, one is that energy can't be lost. For me it's obvious that people who die loose energy, question remains is, where does it go?

Converted to mass and visa versa, corpse to mushrooms, worms, dust in the wind, .... that's where your energy went,

Losing energy refers to the moment of dying, not the decomposing of the human body, if you are alive now, and dead the next second, it's obvious to me you lost energy / soul or whatever, but where does it go?

[AmeriThai]

... I like to remind me to some laws of nature, one is that energy can't be lost. For me it's obvious that people who die loose energy, question remains is, where does it go?

Converted to mass and visa versa, corpse to mushrooms, worms, dust in the wind, .... that's where your energy went,

Losing energy refers to the moment of dying, not the decomposing of the human body, if you are alive now, and dead the next second, it's obvious to me you lost energy / soul or whatever, but where does it go?

That's a pretty deep thing to think about. Here's one way of looking at it.

Your soul or energy, or maybe a better description is your personality, doesn't completely turn into nothingness. The memory of you remains 'alive' in the minds and memories of your family, friends, acquaintences, and other people you've interacted with during the course of your life. That memory of you has an influence to some degree in the lives of those you've known. Those people in turn interact with other people who also interact with even more people, and so on. Kind of like ripples in a pond. Admittedly, the memory of you fades as it goes further out from your inner circle of family and friends, and it fades with the passage of time. At least that seems to be true for most people, but it doesn't completely disappear. It just becomes absorbed, though faintly, into the continuation of life that goes on in the world.

Some people have made a remarkable influence on others in the world even long after their death because of their notable achievements. History is full of examples. Look at the ancient ruins of temples in Thailand, or ancient artifacts in the Northeast, or the pyramids of Egypt, etc. Someone put some thought into making those things. While we might not always know the mind of those people from long ago in clear detail, we can see what they've done. And that leaves an impression in our own memories. In effect, the influence of those ancient people is still alive, though not quite the same as when they were alive.

The point is that the 'energy' that you're talking about isn't really 'lost' when people die. It's absorbed into the minds and memories of those who remain and are still alive. Just as the body is recycled after death, so to is the influence (or energy) or your personality.

[verzenden]

That's a pretty deep thing to think about. Here's one way of looking at it.

Your soul or energy, or maybe a better description is your personality, doesn't completely turn into nothingness. The memory of you remains 'alive' in the minds and memories of your family, friends, acquaintences, and other people you've interacted with during the course of your life. That memory of you has an influence to some degree in the lives of those you've known. Those people in turn interact with other people who also interact with even more people, and so on. Kind of like ripples in a pond. Admittedly, the memory of you fades as it goes further out from your inner circle of family and friends, and it fades with the passage of time. At least that seems to be true for most people, but it doesn't completely disappear. It just becomes absorbed, though faintly, into the continuation of life that goes on in the world.

Some people have made a remarkable influence on others in the world even long after their death because of their notable achievements. History is full of examples. Look at the ancient ruins of temples in Thailand, or ancient artifacts in the Northeast, or the pyramids of Egypt, etc. Someone put some thought into making those things. While we might not always know the mind of those people from long ago in clear detail, we can see what they've done. And that leaves an impression in our own memories. In effect, the influence of those ancient people is still alive, though not quite the same as when they were alive.

The point is that the 'energy' that you're talking about isn't really 'lost' when people die. It's absorbed into the minds and memories of those who remain and are still alive. Just as the body is recycled after death, so to is the influence (or energy) or your personality.

It's a nice way of looking but IMHO refers to the memories you leave behind. The influence you have had in the world and how long people will remember you. The pyramids and other wonderful artifacts left behind by our ancestors are like messages in deep time. By seeing what's left behind today we can have a small grasp of how those people lived. Leaving something behind is probably an instinct we all share. Either it's a graffiti:"AmeriThai was here", time capsules or great thoughtful long lasting architecture like the pyramids. If you would argue that your soul is nothing more than the sum of memories left behind than you might be right. If you agree that, stated that there is something like a soul, a soul is different than the sum of memories the question remains unanswered.

[Tippaporn]

Dogs can hear sounds that people can’t. Same same.

Not a good example because it’s understood that dogs can hear things people can’t. That has to do with frequencies and volumes that are measurable.

Good point to bring up frequencies. Everything that exists is actually in constant motion. Which means that everything vibrates. The important thing to note here is that vibratory rates are different for everything. Our sense mechanisms have a particular range of perceiving vibration. Anything which falls outside of that range will not be perceived by us. The fact that dogs have a greater audible range than we have is indicative of the limits of our senses. In which case it's quite logical to then assume that much exists outside of our current perception since we don't utilize any other sensory mechanisms than the ones we're familiar with. Nor have we trained ourselves to increase the range of the senses we currently have.

So it is a very valid and appropriate example. The animal kingdom provides many examples of different sensory equipment. And since we do not share those same senses, or if we do then to differing degrees or ranges, we cannot know the experience of an animal from it's perspective. God only knows what they might have to tell us.

You can't see it, is all. But people generally aren't willing to believe in anything they can't experience with their physical senses.

Regarding auras (an electrical discharge or glow sometimes thought of as a person’s ‘life force’), perhaps they aren’t as ‘paranormal’ as some people might think. For example, I remember times when listening to someone drone on with a boring speech, finding myself right at the verge of nearly nodding off, but attempting to force myself to stay awake. When focusing my drowsy attention on someone, I would see what appeared to be like an ‘aura’ surrounding the person. The person would also appear to be more crisp and clear looking than the surrounding area.

A paranormal experience? Not at all. What’s happening is the body, being tired, is trying to shut itself down to sleep. As you become more tired but try to fight it, your vision can ‘narrow’ the field of view resembling what might be thought of as ‘tunnel vision’. Things outside the field of view become blurred. The same thing can happen when you’re on the verge of passing out. I’ve also been given injections to put me out for surgery and have had the same experience.

Let's define paranormal.

Beyond the range of normal experience or scientific explanation: such paranormal phenomena as telepathy; a medium's paranormal powers.

Since most people do not see auras then, yes, it would be considered to be a paranormal experience. While you provide your own personal example of seeing someone's aura and provide as an explanation for the event the fact that you were tired you must remember that there are people capable of seeing auras while having quite conscious alertness. So that explanation does not cover the complete range of experiences.

Just because you can't see something doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't exist.

That falls into the area of circular reasoning because it doesn’t mean it does exist either. Sometimes there are things that have more mundane explanations that the ‘observer’ isn’t aware of or doesn’t understand. When we see or experience certain kinds of phenomena that we don’t understand, our brain tries to find whatever explanation is suitable based on our personal knowledge and experiences, even if the explanation is not correct. In other words, such events can more easily be chalked off as being paranormal, when in reality it might not be at all.

My reasoning isn't circular at all. As I explained above, we have a number of senses which we commonly use, and I'll add that the range of our senses varies from person to person. Anything that falls outside of the range of those senses to perceive will not be recognized by us. Are we to assume that nothing else can possibly exist by reason of our inability to perceive it?

I completely agree that the mind tries to find a rational explanation for all events it encounters. And I wouldn't disagree that people experience events which they then wrongly interpret. But I'm getting an impression from the above that any event can be rationaized in the context of our present knowledge. Oi, I don't think we're there quite yet.

You can't see it, is all. But people generally aren't willing to believe in anything they can't experience with their physical senses.

I disagree. We can’t see x-rays either, but we certainly have equipment that conclusively shows they exist. While there are various kinds of equipment that are thought to be able to detect certain kinds of paranormal phenomena, unfortunately, there hasn’t been any conclusive evidence that proves the phenomena because there are other known things such equipment may be detecting.

Technology certainly enables us to expand our perceptions by way of detecting the existence of events which are beyond our senses to perceive. But just as is the case with our senses, technology has limited perception, also. It may be true, too, that there are things in existence which simply cannot be perceived with any given amount of technology. Physcial science would then be limited to the physical. How would you create a physical machine, instrument, gadget to detect something that is not physical? Only if that event leaves 'traces' upon our environment. We would then be able to ascertain the effects it may impart on our reality. But detecting these traces would still be a long way off from understanding the reality of what it was that produced the traces.

One more item that I'd like to add. I believe that we have more than just our five senses available to us. There is enough evidence to support this notion. Given that we do then I also believe that we, ourselves, are best suited to explore what lays beyond our little reality. That would require trusting our own experience. And it's my honest and humble opinion that most of us do not.

Edited April 30, 2006 by Tippaporn

[thaibebop]

... I like to remind me to some laws of nature, one is that energy can't be lost. For me it's obvious that people who die loose energy, question remains is, where does it go?

Converted to mass and visa versa, corpse to mushrooms, worms, dust in the wind, .... that's where your energy went,

Remember your physics class here, Verzenden. That's what Cobra is talking about. It takes energy to rot.

[thailand_property_search]

Only last week there was eerie things happening in my house. One night, I went to bed with a half bottle of whiskey and in the morning..........it was empty. Also, during the night something must've hit me on the head 'cause I woke up with a throbbing headache. Whatever it was, it left a pool of sickly ectoplasm beside the bed.

I've had that one visit too...Pii Ling.

You can tell it's him/her/it because there is also a nasty taste in your mouth

[verzenden]

... I like to remind me to some laws of nature, one is that energy can't be lost. For me it's obvious that people who die loose energy, question remains is, where does it go?

Converted to mass and visa versa, corpse to mushrooms, worms, dust in the wind, .... that's where your energy went,

Remember your physics class here, Verzenden. That's what Cobra is talking about. It takes energy to rot.

Well it's obvious you haven't read all the posts, no further comments. Or did you mean i will use my highly evolved soul, with just another 85 years of experience into decomposing my own body? That would really su#k...

Edited April 30, 2006 by verzenden

[thaibebop]

... I like to remind me to some laws of nature, one is that energy can't be lost. For me it's obvious that people who die loose energy, question remains is, where does it go?

Converted to mass and visa versa, corpse to mushrooms, worms, dust in the wind, .... that's where your energy went,

Remember your physics class here, Verzenden. That's what Cobra is talking about. It takes energy to rot.

Well it's obvious you haven't read all the posts, no further comments. Or did you mean i will use my highly evolved soul, with just another 85 years of experience into decomposing my own body? That would really su#k...

What I am saying is that you are misunderstanding Cobra. He is not talking about souls but the actual chemical reactions which occur within and around a rotting corpse. Chemical reactions need energy and give off energy. So, his comment is completely different from what you are talking about.

[Tippaporn]

It's a nice way of looking but IMHO refers to the memories you leave behind. The influence you have had in the world and how long people will remember you. The pyramids and other wonderful artifacts left behind by our ancestors are like messages in deep time. By seeing what's left behind today we can have a small grasp of how those people lived. Leaving something behind is probably an instinct we all share. Either it's a graffiti:"AmeriThai was here", time capsules or great thoughtful long lasting architecture like the pyramids. If you would argue that your soul is nothing more than the sum of memories left behind than you might be right. If you agree that, stated that there is something like a soul, a soul is different than the sum of memories the question remains unanswered.

As far as I'm concerned we are souls - the soul garbed in flesh and bone. Everyone has their own opinions about what happens when we die. Since there isn't any conclusive proof we each are left with our own personal beliefs about it. Some are dreary while others are uplifting. If I had to make the choice of what to believe based on nothing more than how the idea made me feel then I'd sooner opt for the uplifting explanation. If we cannot know the answer then I'd rather eek a little joy out of an idea than subscribe to a depressing one. One gives life, the other does not. Apart from that it may be six of one, half a dozen of the other. Most may not know until their time comes, so I suggest you may as well make the best of it.

But I believe that the knowledge of what comes after this life is not hidden from us. I do not believe there are inherent barriers preventing us from finding out now. I also believe that if one does not believe in the existence of something then that can be sufficient in preventing one from being lead to that knowledge and/or experience.

Science has proven that energy can never be annihilated, only transmuted. Since we are energy I believe the same applies to us. There's no doubt that we live on to an extent as memories in this world, but I'd say more in terms of our influence. But beyond this world I do believe we continue to exist. Up to each of us to find out for ourselves . . . if the desire is there.

[AmeriThai]

It's a nice way of looking but IMHO refers to the memories you leave behind. The influence you have had in the world and how long people will remember you. The pyramids and other wonderful artifacts left behind by our ancestors are like messages in deep time. By seeing what's left behind today we can have a small grasp of how those people lived. Leaving something behind is probably an instinct we all share. Either it's a graffiti:"AmeriThai was here", time capsules or great thoughtful long lasting architecture like the pyramids. If you would argue that your soul is nothing more than the sum of memories left behind than you might be right. If you agree that, stated that there is something like a soul, a soul is different than the sum of memories the question remains unanswered.

I was trying to suggest is that what is called a ‘soul’ is your own sense of self-awareness of who YOU are, the inner person who looks out from the windows of your eyes. This takes place inside the brain and requires energy to produce thought, etc. Memory alone isn’t the sum of a person’s inner self, but just a part of it. When a person dies, bits and pieces of thoughts and memory originating from the individual are transferred to the perception of others who knew the person or may even be deferred for period of time. This occurs during life BEFORE they died and lingers on to some degree beyond their death. I don’t see any way that could be done apart from the transference of energy. There’s a lot more to it than just graffiti, etc., although you’re right, those things certainly make it obvious that a person existed.

What you asked earlier was:

"Losing energy refers to the moment of dying, not the decomposing of the human body, if you are alive now, and dead the next second, it's obvious to me you lost energy / soul or whatever, but where does it go?"

As already stated, energy is usually transferred or recycled. It is taken in or utilized by other things that need to make use of it. Sounds like the question should be WHY do people and things die in the first place, and then WHAT happens after they die? Energy is not the same thing as a soul.

Perhaps another way of looking at your question is similar to what happens to the energy of a candle flame once its been snuffed out. Again, the energy it produced has already been transferred to the air in the form of heat (radiant energy). It won’t continue generating that kind of energy if the fuel source needed has been exhausted, terminated, interrupted or deflected. A candle by itself can’t produce a flame unless it’s first ignited from another source. That’s an example of energy transference. When a candle has been snuffed out, what energy it produced, though greatly diminished, is still continuing the process of transference on an ever-widening scale, sort of like ripples on a pond after tossing in a pebble.

A few thought-provoking questions:

- What are human beings (or any other form of matter) made of?

- What physically generates thought and memory?

- Is self-awareness (which includes thought and memory) different than a ‘soul’?

- Can a ‘soul’ become an entity (a ghost) that's responsible for hauntings?

There’s nothing new under the sun but variations of what’s been done. - AmeriThai

[richard10365]

I think if there was such a thing as ghost, in this modern time, we would have proof already.

I put ghost in the same category as Santa Clause, Jesus, and Mohammand. I don't believe in any of them . But each person has a right to believe what they want. If it makes you more happy to believe in either....its totally up to you.

[ProfessorFart]

I'm fairly open to the idea that there is still a lot going on we don't understand about.

I tend to lump ghosts in with UFOs. I have had experiences of both which have left me pretty convinced that what I have seen can not be explained.

There is this endless desire for proof and solid evidence and when people try to provide it the naysayers tend to go to great lengths to disclaim it all. However for me, the thousands of reliable eye witness accounts and sightings from everyday people must count for something. True you always get your cranks such as people who claim to be abducted by aliens every friday, but for every 10 weirdos, there is usually one fairly reasonable account which can not be waved away.

I try and keep an open mind about such things and try to convince others to do the same.

If I get time and this thread is still alive I'll post my spooky tale here.