Dummies Guide to Solar Power for one Office AC ?

[SurinBeach]

Gents

I know there's a few long threads re solar power...been reading them this morning....

I just wondered if there is a simple/cost effective solution to one Office AC unit being powered by Solar Panel(s).

(I have an office at home, work during the day, would be nice to power it by Solar when it is hot/sunny ie when Solar Panel being effective)

DummyOut.

[kannot]

Simple answer NO uses way too much power, unless you have a big field to fill with panels

[Crossy]

Slightly more complex answer, yes, under certain constraints.

Do you have mains power on site?

If yes then a grid-tie system will be able to offset the cost of running your aircon without all the issues of energy storage (expensive batteries) and start-up power consumption (big, expensive inverter).

Have a look at the grid-tie systems from Amorn Solar http://www.amornsolar.com/ . Cost 70,000 Baht (2,000W) to 439,000 Baht (20,000W 3-phase), payback without a feed-in tariff is probably about 7 years, if the government actually get around to implementing their proposed feed-in tariff somewhat shorter.

There are also solar-assistors that you can bolt on to your aircon to reduce its power consumption, how effective they actually are I cannot comment http://www.saveenergyasia.com/products/solaraircon.html

[Naam]

WHAT ARE THE COSTS?

A. We have several different packages available and it all depends on your current system. Prices start at around US$400 (THB12,000)

If your current air conditioning unit is old then you may want to consider upgrading to a new system which would be more efficient. Depending on the BTU prices start at around $600 (THB18,000) for a new Complete Solar Air Conditioning System.

http://www.saveenergyasia.com/products/solaraircon.html

-conversion starts @ THB12,000

-new unit starts @ THB 18,000

hmmm...

[SurinBeach]

1. Yes Have power on site, 4 bedroom house, 5 x ACs but only use them separately a few hours a day in total, so I guess from your two replies (thanks), not really worth installing anything ....

(Total Elect bill, including washing machine running lots for 2 kids = 3,000thb pcm)

[Feesbay John]

Check this company out, Ping Solar

[Greenside]

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has experience with the solar assisted a/c in SEA's catalogue.

[Feesbay John]

Check this company out, Ping Solar

Ping Solar just installed this for James at a cost of around 255,000 baht, with just under a 6 year return, If you can install it your self it would be cheaper. Solar is well worth installing.

[splitlid]

^ok that looks good, but what can James run off it?

[bankruatsteve]

Solar panels can be a bitch to clean. And, if they are not clean, they are less efficient. Less efficient pushes the ROI way out there. I don't know - this is good stuff but just not where it SHOULD be from a technological perspective. Any photos of installed units after 1-2 years?

[IMHO]

Check this company out, Ping Solar

Ping Solar just installed this for James at a cost of around 255,000 baht, with just under a 6 year return, If you can install it your self it would be cheaper. Solar is well worth installing.

I just noticed your ad in Classifieds using this same photo and price - so are you a rep for Ping Solar?

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/miscellaneous/household/5040w-solar-panels-plus-5kw-grid-tie-inverter-247320.html

[IMHO]

Solar panels can be a bitch to clean. And, if they are not clean, they are less efficient. Less efficient pushes the ROI way out there. I don't know - this is good stuff but just not where it SHOULD be from a technological perspective. Any photos of installed units after 1-2 years?

whats so hard about some soap, running water and a brush on the end of a long piece of bamboo?

[bankruatsteve]

Solar panels can be a bitch to clean. And, if they are not clean, they are less efficient. Less efficient pushes the ROI way out there. I don't know - this is good stuff but just not where it SHOULD be from a technological perspective. Any photos of installed units after 1-2 years?

whats so hard about some soap, running water and a brush on the end of a long piece of bamboo?

Well, if you have ever tried cleaning solar panels caked with bird shit, you would know.

[IMHO]

Solar panels can be a bitch to clean. And, if they are not clean, they are less efficient. Less efficient pushes the ROI way out there. I don't know - this is good stuff but just not where it SHOULD be from a technological perspective. Any photos of installed units after 1-2 years?

whats so hard about some soap, running water and a brush on the end of a long piece of bamboo?

Well, if you have ever tried cleaning solar panels caked with bird shit, you would know.

Well, I wouldn't - definitely a maid's job, especially if there's shit involved

[Feesbay John]

^ok that looks good, but what can James run off it?

He can run everything he has been doing before the solar was fitted. the only thing that has changed is his electric bill.

[Feesbay John]

Check this company out, Ping Solar

Ping Solar just installed this for James at a cost of around 255,000 baht, with just under a 6 year return, If you can install it your self it would be cheaper. Solar is well worth installing.

I just noticed your ad in Classifieds using this same photo and price - so are you a rep for Ping Solar?

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/miscellaneous/household/5040w-solar-panels-plus-5kw-grid-tie-inverter-247320.html

Wife is the owner ))))

[Feesbay John]

Slightly more complex answer, yes, under certain constraints.

Do you have mains power on site?

If yes then a grid-tie system will be able to offset the cost of running your aircon without all the issues of energy storage (expensive batteries) and start-up power consumption (big, expensive inverter).

Have a look at the grid-tie systems from Amorn Solar http://www.amornsolar.com/ . Cost 70,000 Baht (2,000W) to 439,000 Baht (20,000W 3-phase), payback without a feed-in tariff is probably about 7 years, if the government actually get around to implementing their proposed feed-in tariff somewhat shorter.

There are also solar-assistors that you can bolt on to your aircon to reduce its power consumption, how effective they actually are I cannot comment http://www.saveenergyasia.com/products/solaraircon.html

The government has implemented a feed in tariff. For this year the time has past about 2 weeks ago to apply for it. You only have 3 days to apply in the year and would need to wait until next year now.

[Crossy]

The government has implemented a feed in tariff. For this year the time has past about 2 weeks ago to apply for it. You only have 3 days to apply in the year and would need to wait until next year now.

Cheers John, another wonderful Thai style implementation of a sensible idea.

So this is supposed to encourage lots of 'rooftop' micro solar installations as announced by the government earlier this year? Here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/653276-thai-energy-minister-to-outline-plan-for-rooftop-solar-panels/ or is that the industrial strength version that's limited to 3 days each year?

[Feesbay John]

The government has implemented a feed in tariff. For this year the time has past about 2 weeks ago to apply for it. You only have 3 days to apply in the year and would need to wait until next year now.

Cheers John, another wonderful Thai style implementation of a sensible idea.

So this is supposed to encourage lots of 'rooftop' micro solar installations as announced by the government earlier this year? Here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/653276-thai-energy-minister-to-outline-plan-for-rooftop-solar-panels/ or is that the industrial strength version that's limited to 3 days each year?

It's the same for both,

[kannot]

^ok that looks good, but what can James run off it?

He can run everything he has been doing before the solar was fitted. the only thing that has changed is his electric bill.

can you clarify the output, ie I have a 3kw appliance etc are you saying it will run that without any other input or is this simply feeding back into the electric system and in fact running nothing?

[Feesbay John]

^ok that looks good, but what can James run off it?

He can run everything he has been doing before the solar was fitted. the only thing that has changed is his electric bill.

can you clarify the output, ie I have a 3kw appliance etc are you saying it will run that without any other input or is this simply feeding back into the electric system and in fact running nothing?

The out put of 280w x 18 = 5040w BUT you are missing the point of what a Grid Tie doe's. It feed's electric into what you are using and the grid if you are not using all the power that is made. If you are using more power than you produce then it is just slowing the meter down. If you are only using 1kw and producing 5kw then you are getting the meter to turn backwards, feeding what you are using and given you credit to use at night or another day. You don't need a battery bank with a grid tie as your meter is the bank. The down fall with a grid tie is if the power is out then they have an island protection and the grid tie will not work. It will only work if the power is on, This is to protect the man fixing the line. Think of it this way, if you have your TV, Computer, Air con what ever on, it is pulling power, with solar it is pushing power into what you are using and more if you are not using as much as you are pulling, given you a credit on your meter. As long as it is not a digital meter as they do not turn backwards.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Feesbay John

[IMHO]

Just as an aside, the deadline for license applications for the 'Solar Rooftop' program have been extended until November 15 - if you get yourself into that program you'll be paid 6.95 Baht for each unit you feed into the grid.

At the price, a grid-tie system seems to be the best way to implement a solar system, unless you want to go totally off-grid. If you need backup power, just implement a mains-charged UPS (charger, batteries, inverter and transfer switch) and let you solar generated electricity charge the batts via both meters

[Crossy]

Just as an aside, the deadline for license applications for the 'Solar Rooftop' program have been extended until November 15 - if you get yourself into that program you'll be paid 6.95 Baht for each unit you feed into the grid.

At the price, a grid-tie system seems to be the best way to implement a solar system, unless you want to go totally off-grid. If you need backup power, just implement a mains-charged UPS (charger, batteries, inverter and transfer switch) and let you solar generated electricity charge the batts via both meters

Good info there IMHO, any indication how one actually applies for the scheme (what to ask our local PEA office, they have been clueless in the past) and will they be repeating the scheme in future years?

[IMHO]

Just as an aside, the deadline for license applications for the 'Solar Rooftop' program have been extended until November 15 - if you get yourself into that program you'll be paid 6.95 Baht for each unit you feed into the grid.

At the price, a grid-tie system seems to be the best way to implement a solar system, unless you want to go totally off-grid. If you need backup power, just implement a mains-charged UPS (charger, batteries, inverter and transfer switch) and let you solar generated electricity charge the batts via both meters

Good info there IMHO, any indication how one actually applies for the scheme (what to ask our local PEA office, they have been clueless in the past) and will they be repeating the scheme in future years?

It was/is one of the worst executed programs in history - hence why the time was extended. Most PEA's didnt'/don't even know it exists.

Some PEA's accept applications direct, some will refer you to a higher-level PEA, and in some areas it's just not available at all. In all cases, don't expect the counter staff to have even heard of the program - and even if you find the boss man, he might need to dig through a pile of papers and do some reading before he know what you're talking about

The program is called "Solar Rooftop" both in English/Thai, and the main page for it can be found here: http://www.pea.co.th/vspp/Pages/Solar%20Rooftop.aspx

[kannot]

^ok that looks good, but what can James run off it?

He can run everything he has been doing before the solar was fitted. the only thing that has changed is his electric bill.

can you clarify the output, ie I have a 3kw appliance etc are you saying it will run that without any other input or is this simply feeding back into the electric system and in fact running nothing?

The out put of 280w x 18 = 5040w BUT you are missing the point of what a Grid Tie doe's. It feed's electric into what you are using and the grid if you are not using all the power that is made. If you are using more power than you produce then it is just slowing the meter down. If you are only using 1kw and producing 5kw then you are getting the meter to turn backwards, feeding what you are using and given you credit to use at night or another day. You don't need a battery bank with a grid tie as your meter is the bank. The down fall with a grid tie is if the power is out then they have an island protection and the grid tie will not work. It will only work if the power is on, This is to protect the man fixing the line. Think of it this way, if you have your TV, Computer, Air con what ever on, it is pulling power, with solar it is pushing power into what you are using and more if you are not using as much as you are pulling, given you a credit on your meter. As long as it is not a digital meter as they do not turn backwards.

OK thats what I thought it would be, which is good if implemented by all areas, of course in time if everyone does this they will turn the whole program off no doubt.

[IMHO]

The out put of 280w x 18 = 5040w BUT you are missing the point of what a Grid Tie doe's. It feed's electric into what you are using and the grid if you are not using all the power that is made. If you are using more power than you produce then it is just slowing the meter down. If you are only using 1kw and producing 5kw then you are getting the meter to turn backwards, feeding what you are using and given you credit to use at night or another day. You don't need a battery bank with a grid tie as your meter is the bank. The down fall with a grid tie is if the power is out then they have an island protection and the grid tie will not work. It will only work if the power is on, This is to protect the man fixing the line. Think of it this way, if you have your TV, Computer, Air con what ever on, it is pulling power, with solar it is pushing power into what you are using and more if you are not using as much as you are pulling, given you a credit on your meter. As long as it is not a digital meter as they do not turn backwards.

OK thats what I thought it would be, which is good if implemented by all areas, of course in time if everyone does this they will turn the whole program off no doubt.

if you're referring to the Solar Rooftop program, it's limited to 300MW (half domestic, half industry) and Nov 15 2013 for applications. If you do get approved for it, the contract lasts or 25 years though.

There has not been anywhere near the level of domestic (<10kWh) systems they thought they'd get, which is why applications were extended for another 2 months.

The problems they've had getting domestic suppliers to sign up are 1) Poor promotion of the program, 2) Short deadline for initial supply (Jan 2014), 3) 25 year binding contract (what if you want to sell/move?), 4) feed-in tariff's not guaranteed, 5) The system prices they've been quoting are over 2x market rates (e.g. 300K Baht for a 5kWh system, when that's readily available for 125K Baht).

My guess? They'll get maybe 25% of the 150MW they thought they'd get from domestic this time around, and will modify the program rules and try again in a couple of years.

[atyclb]

Check out http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/solar-air-conditioner.html for ideas.

There are also ac units that run directly on DC current https://www.google.co.th/search?client=badoo&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=alibaba+dc+solar+air+conditioner&btnG=Search+Google#q=dc+powered+air+conditioner&safe=off

Edited January 1, 2014 by atyclb

[jackflash]

deleted

Edited January 2, 2014 by jackflash

[ozyjon]

I did a costing on solar panels to power indoor lights once in Sydney,, it would have take about 18 years for the panels to pay themselves off against power from mains, maybe it has changed now, not sure.

[Cuban]

When ever i see solar arrays installed without a well planned access to allow cleaning I KNOW that the system was sold to someone that means well but fails to understand what is involved.

Still the installers have their money for minimal work and have ensured a call-out service visit within a year to deal with the reduced power output.

If you are concerned about payback duration investigate heat-pumps and buried pipes, a pumped system driven by much smaller solar (PV) array would give a return in months rather than years.