US school shooting: Teacher killed, two students wounded

[folium]

The Sandy Hook school shooter killed his mother, the only parent in the home.

A kid that age and that deranged is gonna get his hands on a firearm(s) if he wants to.

One aspect of this that deserves a lot more scientific investigation is why males but not females do the mass shootings. Beyond the standard biophysical delineations between the genders. The sociopathy and as well as the psychopathy of it.

If the Sandy Hook shooter's parents had the guns locked in a safe or on their person, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Any time you're ready, you can stop quoting spurious polls and such. The REAL poll is the 100 million Americans who own 300 million guns. They voted with their pocketbooks.

More than 1/2 of Americans live in a house with a gun. If one person in the house owns a gun, but the other 3 people including children don't, and you still have 100 million who do own a gun, then the vast majority of eligible citizens and a majority of homes own guns. Eligible means of age, not having a criminal background, etc.

Owning guns in America is a Constitutional right unaffected by polls anyway. It's also unaffected by anyone's personal opinion(s).

I support punishment for parents who allow children to have access to guns. I support outlawing realistic toy guns which I don't think the Constitution addresses.

But until you get the 2nd Amendment repealed, you are blowing smoke.

The proper safe storage of weapons and ammunition is key. But who in the US is going to check this?

If I want to have a Firearms Certificate (which is required for anything more than a shotgun) in the UK I need to provide medical details (which are checked), 2 referees (who are contacted), any criminal record (which is checked), what type of weapons I own including serial number and how they are stored, the amount and type of ammunition I intend to possess and how they are stored; can I prove that I have a good reason to own these firearms; on whose land will I be using these weapons, if it is not my own, etc etc. And then a nice person from the local police force will visit my property to check out that what I have said actually makes sense on the ground.

Do I resent this? Absolutely not as all the above requirements should be the absolute minimum for those wishing to own firearms.

Handguns are illegal in the UK. Hurrah! The only time I ever carried a handgun was going out at night on social occasions when carrying a proper weapon would have been a little impolite! Handguns are an accident waiting to happen in common with most short-barreled weapons.

Letting civvies own weapons without stringent checks is the height of irresponsibility.

But as I have said on more than one occasion every country sets its own agenda in respect of firearms. For the US, they wish to follow a different course, but all actions produce their own reactions. The text below will probably be needed to be reproduced on average one every 6 weeks:

While desperately sad for the victims and their families, the awful question has to be asked: "does it really come as a surprise"?

The gun debate in the US is largely a waste of time and effort at the moment. The gun culture (which I personally despise and despair of) is too ingrained and too politically sensitive.

There is no justification for the current ease of access to weaponry and the lax restrictions on secure storage, handling and ownership of weaponry. There is no need for civilians to have access to military or near-military grade hardware. Personal defence, written in the constitution, individual liberty, well funded lobbyists, spineless politicians all will trot out the usual platitudes and avoidances.

The US is an amazing country in so many ways but perhaps one just has to accept that random acts of violence in a society awash with guns is just part of the American deal. Thailand still has slavery and a host of other issues. No country is perfect and if enough American voters and politicians are happy to tolerate the steady flow of gun crime victims, that unfortunately is their choice.

What will it take to change the attitude? Probably only an outrage on a scale that would dwarf the 77 murders committed by Anders Brievik. But even an incident on that sort of scale might only move the dial for a few months.

This is a tragic incident and the gun issue in the USA is, as ever, a tragedy waiting to happen, and how many more similar tragedies will we see in the next 3 months, 6 months, year?

[beechguy]

The Sandy Hook school shooter killed his mother, the only parent in the home.

A kid that age and that deranged is gonna get his hands on a firearm(s) if he wants to.

One aspect of this that deserves a lot more scientific investigation is why males but not females do the mass shootings. Beyond the standard biophysical delineations between the genders. The sociopathy and as well as the psychopathy of it.

If the Sandy Hook shooter's parents had the guns locked in a safe or on their person, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Any time you're ready, you can stop quoting spurious polls and such. The REAL poll is the 100 million Americans who own 300 million guns. They voted with their pocketbooks.

More than 1/2 of Americans live in a house with a gun. If one person in the house owns a gun, but the other 3 people including children don't, and you still have 100 million who do own a gun, then the vast majority of eligible citizens and a majority of homes own guns. Eligible means of age, not having a criminal background, etc.

Owning guns in America is a Constitutional right unaffected by polls anyway. It's also unaffected by anyone's personal opinion(s).

I support punishment for parents who allow children to have access to guns. I support outlawing realistic toy guns which I don't think the Constitution addresses.

But until you get the 2nd Amendment repealed, you are blowing smoke.

The proper safe storage of weapons and ammunition is key. But who in the US is going to check this?

If I want to have a Firearms Certificate (which is required for anything more than a shotgun) in the UK I need to provide medical details (which are checked), 2 referees (who are contacted), any criminal record (which is checked), what type of weapons I own including serial number and how they are stored, the amount and type of ammunition I intend to possess and how they are stored; can I prove that I have a good reason to own these firearms; on whose land will I be using these weapons, if it is not my own, etc etc. And then a nice person from the local police force will visit my property to check out that what I have said actually makes sense on the ground.

Do I resent this? Absolutely not as all the above requirements should be the absolute minimum for those wishing to own firearms.

Handguns are illegal in the UK. Hurrah! The only time I ever carried a handgun was going out at night on social occasions when carrying a proper weapon would have been a little impolite! Handguns are an accident waiting to happen in common with most short-barreled weapons.

Letting civvies own weapons without stringent checks is the height of irresponsibility.

But as I have said on more than one occasion every country sets its own agenda in respect of firearms. For the US, they wish to follow a different course, but all actions produce their own reactions. The text below will probably be needed to be reproduced on average one every 6 weeks:

While desperately sad for the victims and their families, the awful question has to be asked: "does it really come as a surprise"?

The gun debate in the US is largely a waste of time and effort at the moment. The gun culture (which I personally despise and despair of) is too ingrained and too politically sensitive.

There is no justification for the current ease of access to weaponry and the lax restrictions on secure storage, handling and ownership of weaponry. There is no need for civilians to have access to military or near-military grade hardware. Personal defence, written in the constitution, individual liberty, well funded lobbyists, spineless politicians all will trot out the usual platitudes and avoidances.

The US is an amazing country in so many ways but perhaps one just has to accept that random acts of violence in a society awash with guns is just part of the American deal. Thailand still has slavery and a host of other issues. No country is perfect and if enough American voters and politicians are happy to tolerate the steady flow of gun crime victims, that unfortunately is their choice.

What will it take to change the attitude? Probably only an outrage on a scale that would dwarf the 77 murders committed by Anders Brievik. But even an incident on that sort of scale might only move the dial for a few months.

This is a tragic incident and the gun issue in the USA is, as ever, a tragedy waiting to happen, and how many more similar tragedies will we see in the next 3 months, 6 months, year?

Well, you're certainly welcome to stay in the UK if you like the way they do things there. But, ownership of shotguns only, isn't a deterrent is it(Navy shipyard Incident). The part written in italics, is again, written by someone who doesn't understand the situation, I won't say stupid, but incredibly ignorant. Chicago had over 500 murders in 2012, do you really think all those people, mostly gangbangers, bought those weapons at a store, or would stand in line for a medical certificate?

If the government did come along with sensible regulations, I'm sure a number of us would support them, but you see how that works, Obamacare is a good example.

[folium]

The Sandy Hook school shooter killed his mother, the only parent in the home.

A kid that age and that deranged is gonna get his hands on a firearm(s) if he wants to.

One aspect of this that deserves a lot more scientific investigation is why males but not females do the mass shootings. Beyond the standard biophysical delineations between the genders. The sociopathy and as well as the psychopathy of it.

If the Sandy Hook shooter's parents had the guns locked in a safe or on their person, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Any time you're ready, you can stop quoting spurious polls and such. The REAL poll is the 100 million Americans who own 300 million guns. They voted with their pocketbooks.

More than 1/2 of Americans live in a house with a gun. If one person in the house owns a gun, but the other 3 people including children don't, and you still have 100 million who do own a gun, then the vast majority of eligible citizens and a majority of homes own guns. Eligible means of age, not having a criminal background, etc.

Owning guns in America is a Constitutional right unaffected by polls anyway. It's also unaffected by anyone's personal opinion(s).

I support punishment for parents who allow children to have access to guns. I support outlawing realistic toy guns which I don't think the Constitution addresses.

But until you get the 2nd Amendment repealed, you are blowing smoke.

The proper safe storage of weapons and ammunition is key. But who in the US is going to check this?

If I want to have a Firearms Certificate (which is required for anything more than a shotgun) in the UK I need to provide medical details (which are checked), 2 referees (who are contacted), any criminal record (which is checked), what type of weapons I own including serial number and how they are stored, the amount and type of ammunition I intend to possess and how they are stored; can I prove that I have a good reason to own these firearms; on whose land will I be using these weapons, if it is not my own, etc etc. And then a nice person from the local police force will visit my property to check out that what I have said actually makes sense on the ground.

Do I resent this? Absolutely not as all the above requirements should be the absolute minimum for those wishing to own firearms.

Handguns are illegal in the UK. Hurrah! The only time I ever carried a handgun was going out at night on social occasions when carrying a proper weapon would have been a little impolite! Handguns are an accident waiting to happen in common with most short-barreled weapons.

Letting civvies own weapons without stringent checks is the height of irresponsibility.

But as I have said on more than one occasion every country sets its own agenda in respect of firearms. For the US, they wish to follow a different course, but all actions produce their own reactions. The text below will probably be needed to be reproduced on average one every 6 weeks:

While desperately sad for the victims and their families, the awful question has to be asked: "does it really come as a surprise"?

The gun debate in the US is largely a waste of time and effort at the moment. The gun culture (which I personally despise and despair of) is too ingrained and too politically sensitive.

There is no justification for the current ease of access to weaponry and the lax restrictions on secure storage, handling and ownership of weaponry. There is no need for civilians to have access to military or near-military grade hardware. Personal defence, written in the constitution, individual liberty, well funded lobbyists, spineless politicians all will trot out the usual platitudes and avoidances.

The US is an amazing country in so many ways but perhaps one just has to accept that random acts of violence in a society awash with guns is just part of the American deal. Thailand still has slavery and a host of other issues. No country is perfect and if enough American voters and politicians are happy to tolerate the steady flow of gun crime victims, that unfortunately is their choice.

What will it take to change the attitude? Probably only an outrage on a scale that would dwarf the 77 murders committed by Anders Brievik. But even an incident on that sort of scale might only move the dial for a few months.

This is a tragic incident and the gun issue in the USA is, as ever, a tragedy waiting to happen, and how many more similar tragedies will we see in the next 3 months, 6 months, year?

Well, you're certainly welcome to stay in the UK if you like the way they do things there. But, ownership of shotguns only, isn't a deterrent is it(Navy shipyard Incident). The part written in italics, is again, written by someone who doesn't understand the situation, I won't say stupid, but incredibly ignorant. Chicago had over 500 murders in 2012, do you really think all those people, mostly gangbangers, bought those weapons at a store, or would stand in line for a medical certificate?

If the government did come along with sensible regulations, I'm sure a number of us would support them, but you see how that works, Obamacare is a good example.

And there is exactly the rub...

Whatever the government suggests or would like to suggest, it is regarded as an act of aggression against civil liberties, the Constitution, being American etc etc

Criminals/nutjobs will commit criminal acts with whatever they can lay their hands on, that's the nature of the beast. The current arrangements in the US not only facilitates tragic gun-related accidents in the home and elsewhere, but also school killings on a scale unimaginable today in the UK (it's a tad difficult, both physically and mentally, killing many with a knife or hammer), and your "gangbanger" activity, who have few problems sourcing a weapon.

Suburban housewives with AR-15s. Is that really a symbol of an advanced nation with the interests of its citizens first and foremost?

[F430murci]

Every day, innocents life's are being altered due to nutters hiding behind second amendment. I think Brad Pitt summed it up quiet nicely in Seven.

I've been trying to figure something in my head, and maybe you can help me out, yeah? When a person is insane, as you clearly are, do you know that you're insane? Maybe you're just sitting around, reading Guns and Ammo, masturbating in your own feces. Do you just stop and go, "Wow! It is amazing how fuc_king crazy I really am!"? Yeah, do you guys do that?

-----

1 Killed, 5 Injured in Deadly New Haven Club

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/1-Killed-5-Injured-in-New-Haven-Club-Shooting-229371141.html

-----

Oh, that's right. The insane just say we need more guns and everyone in club needed to be packing heat . . .

I wonder how many of those packing, were NRA members? Or how many of those weapons were legally owned?

Or how many NRA members are sitting around reading guns amd ammo, masturbating in their feces and saying, man I am truly insane! I think I perhaps have less confidence in the sanity of an average NRA member than just about any other segment of society.

[NeverSure]

You UK America bashers, listen up.

In not more than 20 years, legal and illegal immigrants from countries with a different belief system are going to own you. They are moving in, in droves and out-breeding you 6:1. They are already pushing for their own courts and laws. Already you are suffering from unbelievable "hate speech" laws which don't apply to them. Already you are afraid to fly your flag. Already you can't protest against them. Already your government prefers them over you.

In 20 years they will own you and there is nothing you can do about it because you gave up your arms.

How stupid does one have to be to actually watch his government give the country away to foreigners who are heavily sprinkled with terrorists, while he at the same time depends on that same government to protect him?

You've had it too soft and too easy for too long. Your country is very old and established and you believe it will stay that way. You have become complacent. You have given up every right to personally defend yourself and your family.

So you take a thread like this going on and on with your America bashing, but in not more than 20 years you will be crying for America to save you. Again. Last time it was so you wouldn't have to learn the goose step. The next time it will be so that you don't have to buy a prayer mat or be blown up in the street.

But this time America won't help you because it won't be an international war. It will be an internal issue left to the voters who will be mostly not native Brits.

England is gone. You're letting it happen. It's already too late. You're history but just can't see it yet.

And in 20 years if a group with long beards and turbines and a book I don't agree with threatens me I will mow them down right in their tracks as would 100 million other Americans.

You see, we don't look at today. We take risks against tomorrow because our past was violent. We believe it can happen again. And unlike you we don't ignorantly believe that our government can or will protect us.

In fact we are most afraid of our government and so should you be.

Cheers.

[F430murci]

You UK America bashers, listen up.

In not more than 20 years, legal and illegal immigrants from countries with a different belief system are going to own you. They are moving in, in droves and out-breeding you 6:1. They are already pushing for their own courts and laws. Already you are suffering from unbelievable "hate speech" laws which don't apply to them. Already you are afraid to fly your flag. Already you can't protest against them. Already your government prefers them over you.

In 20 years they will own you and there is nothing you can do about it because you gave up your arms.

How stupid does one have to be to actually watch his government give the country away to foreigners who are heavily sprinkled with terrorists, while he at the same time depends on that same government to protect him?

You've had it too soft and too easy for too long. Your country is very old and established and you believe it will stay that way. You have become complacent. You have given up every right to personally defend yourself and your family.

So you take a thread like this going on and on with your America bashing, but in not more than 20 years you will be crying for America to save you. Again. Last time it was so you wouldn't have to learn the goose step. The next time it will be so that you don't have to buy a prayer mat or be blown up in the street.

But this time America won't help you because it won't be an international war. It will be an internal issue left to the voters who will be mostly not native Brits.

England is gone. You're letting it happen. It's already too late. You're history but just can't see it yet.

And in 20 years if a group with long beards and turbines and a book I don't agree with threatens me I will mow them down right in their tracks as would 100 million other Americans.

You see, we don't look at today. We take risks against tomorrow because our past was violent. We believe it can happen again. And unlike you we don't ignorantly believe that our government can or will protect us.

In fact we are most afraid of our government and so should you be.

Cheers.

Haha, more comic relief! Sounds like teachings of Jim Jones or David Karrish. Might as well drink the cool aide England, you're done.

[NeverSure]

You UK America bashers, listen up.

In not more than 20 years, legal and illegal immigrants from countries with a different belief system are going to own you. They are moving in, in droves and out-breeding you 6:1. They are already pushing for their own courts and laws. Already you are suffering from unbelievable "hate speech" laws which don't apply to them. Already you are afraid to fly your flag. Already you can't protest against them. Already your government prefers them over you.

In 20 years they will own you and there is nothing you can do about it because you gave up your arms.

How stupid does one have to be to actually watch his government give the country away to foreigners who are heavily sprinkled with terrorists, while he at the same time depends on that same government to protect him?

You've had it too soft and too easy for too long. Your country is very old and established and you believe it will stay that way. You have become complacent. You have given up every right to personally defend yourself and your family.

So you take a thread like this going on and on with your America bashing, but in not more than 20 years you will be crying for America to save you. Again. Last time it was so you wouldn't have to learn the goose step. The next time it will be so that you don't have to buy a prayer mat or be blown up in the street.

But this time America won't help you because it won't be an international war. It will be an internal issue left to the voters who will be mostly not native Brits.

England is gone. You're letting it happen. It's already too late. You're history but just can't see it yet.

And in 20 years if a group with long beards and turbines and a book I don't agree with threatens me I will mow them down right in their tracks as would 100 million other Americans.

You see, we don't look at today. We take risks against tomorrow because our past was violent. We believe it can happen again. And unlike you we don't ignorantly believe that our government can or will protect us.

In fact we are most afraid of our government and so should you be.

Cheers.

Haha, more comic relief! Sounds like teachings of Jim Jones or David Karrish. Might as well drink the cool aide England, you're done.

Comic relief. Like the soldier who was beheaded in public is comedy? Like the Sharia courts are comedy? Like the laws favoring immigrants to the detriment of natives is comedy? Like the very rapid growth of groups containing terrorists and the conversion of native Brits to their religion is comedy? Like the invited and rapid infiltration of the IRA by Al-Qaeda and other terrorists is comedy? The rapid influx and breeding of terrorists and supporters into the UK is comedy?

What would you in your brilliance consider a tragedy?

Apparently this sickness is contageous.

[folium]

You UK America bashers, listen up.

In not more than 20 years, legal and illegal immigrants from countries with a different belief system are going to own you. They are moving in, in droves and out-breeding you 6:1. They are already pushing for their own courts and laws. Already you are suffering from unbelievable "hate speech" laws which don't apply to them. Already you are afraid to fly your flag. Already you can't protest against them. Already your government prefers them over you.

In 20 years they will own you and there is nothing you can do about it because you gave up your arms.

How stupid does one have to be to actually watch his government give the country away to foreigners who are heavily sprinkled with terrorists, while he at the same time depends on that same government to protect him?

You've had it too soft and too easy for too long. Your country is very old and established and you believe it will stay that way. You have become complacent. You have given up every right to personally defend yourself and your family.

So you take a thread like this going on and on with your America bashing, but in not more than 20 years you will be crying for America to save you. Again. Last time it was so you wouldn't have to learn the goose step. The next time it will be so that you don't have to buy a prayer mat or be blown up in the street.

But this time America won't help you because it won't be an international war. It will be an internal issue left to the voters who will be mostly not native Brits.

England is gone. You're letting it happen. It's already too late. You're history but just can't see it yet.

And in 20 years if a group with long beards and turbines and a book I don't agree with threatens me I will mow them down right in their tracks as would 100 million other Americans.

You see, we don't look at today. We take risks against tomorrow because our past was violent. We believe it can happen again. And unlike you we don't ignorantly believe that our government can or will protect us.

In fact we are most afraid of our government and so should you be.

Cheers.

Good grief....

Your wild accusation re America bashers is way wide of the target. Have a read of what I posted if you include me in this diatribe.

Care to back up your claims re "droves' of migrants into the UK? Any data to back up the 6:1 claim? How does that compare to the US? Unless you are a Catholic hispanic that would mean you are facing "droves" of people of a different ethnicity and religion .

As most Brits don't suffer from advanced paranoia there is less need to cling on to church, flag and gun to give us that blessed reassurance.

Intrigued about the US violent past you mention . When was this and quite why is this likely to be repeated?

If you don't believe that the US government can or will protect you, what is the function of the law enforcement agencies and the US military?

Why should the government come after you anyway?

Is it really all down to "100 million" armed US civilians to preserve the dream?

A "group with long beards, turbines and a book you don't agree with".....is this ZZ Top, a new engine in the Eliminator and Grapes of Wrath?

[folium]

You UK America bashers, listen up.

In not more than 20 years, legal and illegal immigrants from countries with a different belief system are going to own you. They are moving in, in droves and out-breeding you 6:1. They are already pushing for their own courts and laws. Already you are suffering from unbelievable "hate speech" laws which don't apply to them. Already you are afraid to fly your flag. Already you can't protest against them. Already your government prefers them over you.

In 20 years they will own you and there is nothing you can do about it because you gave up your arms.

How stupid does one have to be to actually watch his government give the country away to foreigners who are heavily sprinkled with terrorists, while he at the same time depends on that same government to protect him?

You've had it too soft and too easy for too long. Your country is very old and established and you believe it will stay that way. You have become complacent. You have given up every right to personally defend yourself and your family.

So you take a thread like this going on and on with your America bashing, but in not more than 20 years you will be crying for America to save you. Again. Last time it was so you wouldn't have to learn the goose step. The next time it will be so that you don't have to buy a prayer mat or be blown up in the street.

But this time America won't help you because it won't be an international war. It will be an internal issue left to the voters who will be mostly not native Brits.

England is gone. You're letting it happen. It's already too late. You're history but just can't see it yet.

And in 20 years if a group with long beards and turbines and a book I don't agree with threatens me I will mow them down right in their tracks as would 100 million other Americans.

You see, we don't look at today. We take risks against tomorrow because our past was violent. We believe it can happen again. And unlike you we don't ignorantly believe that our government can or will protect us.

In fact we are most afraid of our government and so should you be.

Cheers.

Haha, more comic relief! Sounds like teachings of Jim Jones or David Karrish. Might as well drink the cool aide England, you're done.

Comic relief. Like the soldier who was beheaded in public is comedy? Like the Sharia courts are comedy? Like the laws favoring immigrants to the detriment of natives is comedy? Like the very rapid growth of groups containing terrorists and the conversion of native Brits to their religion is comedy? Like the invited and rapid infiltration of the IRA by Al-Qaeda and other terrorists is comedy? The rapid influx and breeding of terrorists and supporters into the UK is comedy?

What would you in your brilliance consider a tragedy?

Apparently this sickness is contageous.

Not sure anyone was claiming that the brutal murder of Lee Rigby was comedy.

Sharia courts in the UL have no more standing than the Jewish Beth DIn (see below if you are not sure), and both have to accept the primacy of English Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_din

What laws favour immigrants over "natives"?

"very rapid growth of groups containing terrorists"...such as? How rapid is the growth?

"conversion of native Brits to their religion"... please quantify and compare to US converts.

"invited and rapid infiltration of the IRA by Al-Qaeda"...fell off my chair laughing (is there a FOMCL?) at this one. Where do you get this nonsense from?

If anything AQ has seriously pi**ed off Slab (charming gentleman of S.Armagh who has "nothing" to do with the continuing republican terrorism) and his boys with a recent stunt in the Suez Canal (see below)

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/al-qaeda-rocket-blows-lid-on-ira-cigarette-cargo-29596545.html

"rapid influx and breeding of terrorists and supporters".....again some evidence to back up the claim would be great.

If you are going to make a whole series of extraordinary claims without any supporting evidence, how can they be taken seriously?

[Scott]

Further off-topic posts about the situation in Europe will result in your post being deleted. Although it is an interesting subject, it does not belong in this thread about US school shootings.

Please stay on-topic.

[Diablo Bob]

A lot of misconceptions on this thread.

The attached is from Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy. A truly LIBERAL establishment, and a rather refreshing view and quite surprising....... , considering the source .

Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

[boomerangutang]

You UK America bashers, listen up.

In not more than 20 years, legal and illegal immigrants from countries with a different belief system are going to own you. They are moving in, in droves and out-breeding you 6:1. They are already pushing for their own courts and laws. Already you are suffering from unbelievable "hate speech" laws which don't apply to them. Already you are afraid to fly your flag. Already you can't protest against them. Already your government prefers them over you.

In 20 years they will own you and there is nothing you can do about it because you gave up your arms.

How stupid does one have to be to actually watch his government give the country away to foreigners who are heavily sprinkled with terrorists, while he at the same time depends on that same government to protect him?

You've had it too soft and too easy for too long. Your country is very old and established and you believe it will stay that way. You have become complacent. You have given up every right to personally defend yourself and your family.

So you take a thread like this going on and on with your America bashing, but in not more than 20 years you will be crying for America to save you. Again. Last time it was so you wouldn't have to learn the goose step. The next time it will be so that you don't have to buy a prayer mat or be blown up in the street.

But this time America won't help you because it won't be an international war. It will be an internal issue left to the voters who will be mostly not native Brits.

England is gone. You're letting it happen. It's already too late. You're history but just can't see it yet.

And in 20 years if a group with long beards and turbines and a book I don't agree with threatens me I will mow them down right in their tracks as would 100 million other Americans.

You see, we don't look at today. We take risks against tomorrow because our past was violent. We believe it can happen again. And unlike you we don't ignorantly believe that our government can or will protect us.

In fact we are most afraid of our government and so should you be.

It's good we have forums like this which enable individuals to vent. As a lifelong advocate of strict gun control, I actually agree with much of the above quote. One difference: I don't see massive gun ownership as the answer. Though I agree it may come to (increasing amounts of) armed clashes. It's one way to lessen overpopulation, though rather messy and painful.

Europe has a tougher row to hoe with Muslim immigrants pouring in, than the US. It's estimated that Belgium will be the 1st majority Muslim country in Europe. Europeans are generally too tolerant (for their own good) in that regard. In a typical Muslim community, only about 1 to 3% will be radicals - yet it's that small fanatical % which will cow the others in to saying what the radicals want them to say.

In the US, there's more assimilation, along with a smaller % of Muslims to overall population, compared to Europe. The US is more of a 'melting pot' - so a young Muslim man may entertain thoughts of radicalism, but will likely see the ridiculousness of radicalism before he goes to burning buildings down. Of course there are always exceptions on both sides of the debate. There's Tim McVeigh, a right wing, gun-loving white man, who blew up the Federal building in Oklahoma. His partner in crime was also a gun-loving white man. There are so many whackos in the US, it's a wonder more bad things don't happen. It's back to the 'melting pot' thing, where Americans are exposed to everything, including self-parody and ethnic humor, so they're less likely to act-out, than one might expect from so many hot-heads with tens of millions of guns.

[F430murci]

About 500 American children and teenagers die in hospitals every year after sustaining gunshot wounds a rate that climbed by nearly 60 percent in a decade, according to the first-ever accounting of such fatalities, released Sunday.

http://m.nbcnews.com/health/terrible-tally-500-children-dead-gunshots-every-year-7-500-8C11469222

[F430murci]

This is reality . . . and for what? Nutters thinking there is anarchy in the USA and they have to be at the ready to fight off the government at any time. Awesome!

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The .45-caliber pistol that killed Lucas Heagren, 3, on Memorial Day last year at his Ohio home had been temporarily hidden under the couch by his father. But Lucas found it and shot himself through the right eye. Its bad, his mother told the 911 dispatcher. Its really bad.

A few days later in Georgia, Cassie Culpepper, 11, was riding in the back of a pickup with her 12-year-old brother and two other children. Her brother started playing with a pistol his father had lent him to scare coyotes. Believing he had removed all the bullets, he pointed the pistol at his sister and squeezed the trigger. It fired, and blood poured from Cassies mouth.

Just a few weeks earlier, in Houston, a group of youths found a Glock pistol in an apartment closet while searching for snack money. A 15-year-old boy was handling the gun when it went off. Alex Whitfield, who had just turned 11, was struck. A relative found the bullet in his ashes from the funeral home.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?_r=0

[F430murci]

God bless America! The home of the free and land of we let the crazies be crazy! The actual data shows the NRA is the one lying to everyone when citing the bs about x, y and z causing more deaths each year than guns.

Efforts to create a system to more accurately tally gun deaths were blocked by NRA in the 1990s. Accordingly, the NRA and people on here knowingly use the under reporting to mis lead public.

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And there are far more of these innocent victims than official records show.

A New York Times review of hundreds of child firearm deaths found that accidental shootings occurred roughly twice as often as the records indicate, because of idiosyncrasies in how such deaths are classified by the authorities. The killings of Lucas, Cassie and Alex, for instance, were not recorded as accidents. Nor were more than half of the 259 accidental firearm deaths of children under age 15 identified by The Times in eight states where records were available.

. . .

Compiling a complete census of accidental gun deaths of children is difficult, because most states do not consider death certificate data a matter of public record.

. . .

The National Rifle Association cited the lower official numbers this year in a fact sheet opposing safe storage laws, saying children were more likely to be killed by falls, poisoning or environmental factors an incorrect assertion if the actual number of accidental firearm deaths is significantly higher.

. . .

The Times identified roughly twice as many accidental killings as were tallied in the corresponding federal data.

. . .

The effort first started in the 1990s at the C.D.C. but was shut down shortly afterward when Congress, at the urging of the N.R.A., blocked firearms-related research at the centers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?_r=0

[Credo]

This is reality . . . and for what? Nutters thinking there is anarchy in the USA and they have to be at the ready to fight off the government at any time. Awesome!

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The .45-caliber pistol that killed Lucas Heagren, 3, on Memorial Day last year at his Ohio home had been temporarily hidden under the couch by his father. But Lucas found it and shot himself through the right eye. Its bad, his mother told the 911 dispatcher. Its really bad.

A few days later in Georgia, Cassie Culpepper, 11, was riding in the back of a pickup with her 12-year-old brother and two other children. Her brother started playing with a pistol his father had lent him to scare coyotes. Believing he had removed all the bullets, he pointed the pistol at his sister and squeezed the trigger. It fired, and blood poured from Cassies mouth.

Just a few weeks earlier, in Houston, a group of youths found a Glock pistol in an apartment closet while searching for snack money. A 15-year-old boy was handling the gun when it went off. Alex Whitfield, who had just turned 11, was struck. A relative found the bullet in his ashes from the funeral home.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?_r=0

How sad. Whatever happened to the good ol' days when the worst thing a kid found was his folks pot under the couch?

[F430murci]

This is reality . . . and for what? Nutters thinking there is anarchy in the USA and they have to be at the ready to fight off the government at any time. Awesome!

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The .45-caliber pistol that killed Lucas Heagren, 3, on Memorial Day last year at his Ohio home had been temporarily hidden under the couch by his father. But Lucas found it and shot himself through the right eye. Its bad, his mother told the 911 dispatcher. Its really bad.

A few days later in Georgia, Cassie Culpepper, 11, was riding in the back of a pickup with her 12-year-old brother and two other children. Her brother started playing with a pistol his father had lent him to scare coyotes. Believing he had removed all the bullets, he pointed the pistol at his sister and squeezed the trigger. It fired, and blood poured from Cassies mouth.

Just a few weeks earlier, in Houston, a group of youths found a Glock pistol in an apartment closet while searching for snack money. A 15-year-old boy was handling the gun when it went off. Alex Whitfield, who had just turned 11, was struck. A relative found the bullet in his ashes from the funeral home.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?_r=0

How sad. Whatever happened to the good ol' days when the worst thing a kid found was his folks pot under the couch?

I guess it hits me hard because I have children and I view them so innocent and sweet. I cannot imagine both pain and the horror these innocent babies and children go through when being shot with their nutter parents' guns who apparently think they needed a gun to keep the government or living dead zombies away.

Yeah, people like Neversure needing a big dog, pistol, assault rifle and s shot gun for close quarters killings to protect himself from immigrants or Muslims in failed countries based on his recent postings astound me. They are apparently too deluded to see they are the problem, not the solution. They drank the NRA cool aide, but now they should stop reading whackadoodle websites and start reading children's books before they become really dangerous.

[F430murci]

On a hot and humid August afternoon last year in Hinesville, Ga., Matthew Underhill, a staff sergeant in the Army, was mowing the lawn while his wife, Tessa, was in the house watching television with their 5-year-old son, Matthew. Their other son, Tristan, 2, was scampering down a hallway toward the bedrooms.

It had been a good day for Tristan. He had used the potty for the first time. He and his mother had danced a little jig. Down the hall, Tristan entered the bedroom where his father had been staying because of quarrels with his wife. She had chided her husband in the past for forgetting to safely store his .45-caliber handgun. But he had recently put a lock on his door to keep out his wife and children. He thought he had locked the door before going out to cut the grass.

The lock, though, had failed to catch. Tristan found the loaded gun under the pillow on his fathers bed. He pointed it at his own forehead and pulled the trigger. Hearing the gunshot, Sergeant Underhill sprinted inside to find Tristan face down on the bed, the gun beneath him. When he called 911, the sergeant was screaming so hysterically that the dispatcher initially mistook him for a woman.

My 2-year-old just shot himself in the head, he said breathlessly. Hes dead.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?_r=0