Mahouts fight against elephant ownership bill

[webfact]

Mahouts fight against elephant ownership bill
PONGPHON SARNSAMAK
THE NATION



Many say draft will not solve problem at the root; demand removal of minister

AYUTTHAYA: -- Hundreds of mahouts gathered with their elephants yesterday at Ayutthaya's elephant corral and called on the government not to approve the draft Wild Animals Preservation and Protection Bill, which would transfer the ownership of domesticated elephants to a state agency supervising wildlife protection.

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister General Pracha Promnog is expected to visit Ayutthaya today to collect their complaints. The mahouts have said that if Pracha failed to show up, they would bring their elephants to the capital to rally outside Government House.

A public forum is being held on the draft bill, which will be considered by Parliament later. The mahouts also called on the government to remove Natural Resources and Environment Vice Minister Damrong Phidet - former chief of the National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation Department - from his current position after he told the press that he would push for the draft bill to be taken to Parliament.

Netiwin Amornshing, a 36-year-old mahout from Surin, said the bill was unfair.

"The bill will not resolve the problems," he said.

The bill proposed by the National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation Department aims to prevent the poaching and illegal trade of elephants. However, some proposed measures would allow officials to confiscate elephants if they find that identification certificates do not match the animals' physical characteristics.

Over the past few years many wild elephants in Thailand have been poached and domesticated, with some mahouts forging identification certificates. But instead of a bill to transfer ownership of domesticated elephants to a state agency, Netiwin said the government should plug that loophole by handing responsibility for issuing identification certificates to the Interior Ministry.

"The government should increase penalties instead of passing a new law to control everything," he said, adding that if the government did not respond to their demands, thousands of mahouts nationwide would take their elephants to protest outside city halls.

Netiwin also said that if the government wanted to resolve the problem of mahouts taking their elephants into cities and built-up areas, it should set up an elephant fund.

Meanwhile, Damrong said he was not directly involved in the effort to push through the draft Wild Animals Preservation and Protection Bill.

"I think this bill is a positive step to protect wild elephants, so I am merely supporting it," he said, adding that he was prepared to resign from his ministerial position if necessary. "It's fine if they want me to go."


-- The Nation 2013-10-25

[el jefe]

This bill is great news for the elephants and bad news for beggars who claim to be mahouts. Let's hope it passes.

[Local Drunk]

Hope it doesn't pass too soon. I'd love to see those elephants at Govt. House and watch the riot police wet their pants..

Edited October 25, 2013 by Local Drunk

[JoeThePoster]

"I worry" about the future of these poor beasts. But, the elephants will be just fine.

[coma]

IMO any new bill shouldn't be applied to existing ownership. Not all mahouts are grubs and some people have been with their majestic beast for decades and look after their charges well. It would be devasting for such individuals.

On the other hand I am strongly opposed to any new private ownership of elephants. Anyone wanting to own one could simply do the correct zookeeping training, then be employed by goverment or NGO,s in that field.

[MILT]

This bill is great news for the elephants and bad news for beggars who claim to be mahouts. Let's hope it passes.

What a blatant trolling post. Mahouts are beggars? Great news for the elephants? separating a elephant from it's mahout is a very dangerous idea. The elephants and the mahouts have a deep bound a trust if you will. You obviously don't anything about elephants nor mahouts. You should try going near an elephant without it's mahout and see what happens. I mean that you should!

[noitom]

Any legislation "that is enforced" would be a benefit to the elephants and demonstrate Thailand's commitment to elephant preservation and protection.

[circusman]

"I worry" about the future of these poor beasts. But, the elephants will be just fine.

What are you trying to say? Your post makes no sense.

[CHANGOVER]

Mahouts instil FEAR in elephants, not TRUST! They beat them into submission when young after being dragged away from their mother and family, usually unweaned.

Elephants are family animals and not 'loners'.

Hopefully the bill will be passed and the elephants removed from their torturers/mahouts!

Edited to add one of the numerous videos of abuse.

Edited October 25, 2013 by CHANGOVER

[h90]

This bill is great news for the elephants and bad news for beggars who claim to be mahouts. Let's hope it passes.

What a blatant trolling post. Mahouts are beggars? Great news for the elephants? separating a elephant from it's mahout is a very dangerous idea. The elephants and the mahouts have a deep bound a trust if you will. You obviously don't anything about elephants nor mahouts. You should try going near an elephant without it's mahout and see what happens. I mean that you should!

I recall 2 Mahouts with a baby elephant in Samut Prakarn, trying to get money.

They smelled in the morning from Lao Kao that it was just unbelievable...and I like to drink myself.

After they had enough money they put the elephant in a large green area and went drinking.

Every day.....

[h90]

Hope it doesn't pass too soon. I'd love to see those elephants at Govt. House and watch the riot police wet their pants..

While I am for more protection for the elephants, I also would like to see if the riot police is brave enough to shoot tear gas at the elephants, or they are only brave enough to do that at elderly women.

[snowgard]

For proof the ownership they can start to implant a microchip to every elefant. They do the same with cows, horses, dogs, cats, ... in a lot of countries!!! It's very cheap and can be done with wild elefants too. And than register all elephants wth the chip-ID and all the animals physical characteristics in a thailandwide (southeast asia) database. Problem solved!!!

[ratcatcher]

Mahouts instil FEAR in elephants, not TRUST! They beat them into submission when young after being dragged away from their mother and family, usually unweaned.

Elephants are family animals and not 'loners'.

Hopefully the bill will be passed and the elephants removed from their torturers/mahouts!

Edited to add one of the numerous videos of abuse.

Jesus, that video is hard to watch. Got half way through and wanted to throw up.

Required viewing for all tourists who like elephant shows. And, yes, I have been to one..

I guess bullfighting and rodeo are similar, so not to worry.

[bigbamboo]

Mahouts instil FEAR in elephants, not TRUST! They beat them into submission when young after being dragged away from their mother and family, usually unweaned.

Elephants are family animals and not 'loners'.

Hopefully the bill will be passed and the elephants removed from their torturers/mahouts!

Edited to add one of the numerous videos of abuse.

I never did like those mahouts. I like them even less now.

Seeing this make me wish mum would come charging through the trees and trample the lot of them.

[coma]

"I worry" about the future of these poor beasts. But, the elephants will be just fine.

What are you trying to say? Your post makes no sense.

Think about it.

[Cuban]

I have no particular feelings either way...

However elephants are dear to the hearts of most Thai people, the Mahouts may have their failings but they are unlikely to kill their golden goose and elephants will react badly if abused that is seen often enough.

The government does not have a brilliant track record and although the Headline Bill might bee all good, I have a feeling that behinds the scenes there is an angle at play to milk the situation.

Just like the International ban on the trafficking of Elephant Ivory has an exclusion for Thailand's domestic elephants, which has lead to a lucrative black market trade in African Tusks being brought to Thailand, laundered and then sold on the open market as Thai Tusks.

As in the recent Scam threads - just follow the money to see where the cash-out is and who enables this to happen, I can't see Mahouts cutting off the tusks of their meal ticket.

[Johpa]

I recall 2 Mahouts with a baby elephant in Samut Prakarn, trying to get money.

They smelled in the morning from Lao Kao that it was just unbelievable...and I like to drink myself.

After they had enough money they put the elephant in a large green area and went drinking.

Every day.....

Gee, sounds like just about every other Thai I know who are piss poor and have little other than the shirt on their back as their sole possesion. In fact, I think most people globally who are as poor as the mahouts I know act in the same way. In fact it apears many posters to ThaiVisa have the exact same lifestyle without having ever experienced the poverty enjoyed by mahouts in Thailand.

The element missing from this story is that many of the mahouts are hired and do not own the pachyderms in question.

[EyesWideOpen]

Follow.......the.........money........

[MILT]

The video has nothing to do with elephant camps period.

Folks with little to no knowledge about elephants, mahouts, and the training of elephants and then watch this horrid video

lump all camps and mahouts together. This type of mindset reminds me of the issue of lumping

cannabis with all dangerous drugs. How many people here on TV have smoked a joint in their lives and then

get thrown in as drug addicts, drug abusers, degenerates, and on and on? As harmless as weed is how many would

step up and openly say they puff weed?

My point is educate yourselves with real facts and not mindless propaganda.

That is all I am trying to convey here.

[Lite Beer]

Elephant rally at Govt House called off after talks
The Sunday Nation

BANGKOK: -- Mahouts postponed plans for an elephant rally at Government House in Bangkok today - along with plans to blockade roads in southern and northern Thailand - following what they called "satisfactory talks" with Deputy Prime Minister General Pracha Promnog on Friday evening at Ayuthaya's elephant corral.

Mahouts and owners of elephants gathered at the corral began to return home yesterday, but vowed to return if the government did not respond to their demands. They wanted the government not to approve the draft Wild Animals Preservation and Protection bill and for Natural Resources and Environment Minister, Wichet Kasemthonsri, to be removed.

-- The Nation 2013-10-27

[Jib Teenuc]

It's even reached the news in London:

http://www.lbc.co.uk/thailand-protest-over-bid-to-protect-elephants-80266

[siampolee]

Rumour has it that there was some concern that the redoubtable Plod would be around sizing up the livestock prior to putting the livestock on the menu as was his want in the past.

Plod. A fine example of how in reality the powers that be regard animal life in Thailand