Why be in Thailand?

[AYJAYDEE]

After the first 6 months, financial reasons.

I would gladly move back to San Francisco if I could afford my previous lifestyle without downgrading.

I hope I can get over there for Christmas this year and spend some time with folks who have some morals.

You mean spend time with people who share e same morals as yourself? Morals are very subjective. Are your morals better than the Amish people? Better than Europeans? Better than Chinese? Where I come from, people frown on the morality of California.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

nice generalization

[thailiketoo]

After the first 6 months, financial reasons.

I would gladly move back to San Francisco if I could afford my previous lifestyle without downgrading.

I hope I can get over there for Christmas this year and spend some time with folks who have some morals.

You mean spend time with people who share e same morals as yourself? Morals are very subjective. Are your morals better than the Amish people? Better than Europeans? Better than Chinese? Where I come from, people frown on the morality of California.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

nice generalization

San Francisco is not exactly the poster child for morals.

[beachproperty]

San Francisco is not exactly the poster child for morals.

AND where exactly is???? Amsterdam? London? Rome? Athens? Paris?......really LOVE how everybody generalizes so much....Part of the "charm" of some cities is their unique differences....whatever they may be....No need to be judgemental... Have you ever lived in San Francisco? ...

[AYJAYDEE]

After the first 6 months, financial reasons.

I would gladly move back to San Francisco if I could afford my previous lifestyle without downgrading.

I hope I can get over there for Christmas this year and spend some time with folks who have some morals.

You mean spend time with people who share e same morals as yourself? Morals are very subjective. Are your morals better than the Amish people? Better than Europeans? Better than Chinese? Where I come from, people frown on the morality of California.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

nice generalization

San Francisco is not exactly the poster child for morals.

what are you talking about? who defines morality? you?

[thailiketoo]

San Francisco is not exactly the poster child for morals.

AND where exactly is???? Amsterdam? London? Rome? Athens? Paris?......really LOVE how everybody generalizes so much....Part of the "charm" of some cities is their unique differences....whatever they may be....No need to be judgemental... Have you ever lived in San Francisco? ...

I lived in San Francisco when the first go go bar in the world opened with the first stripper with breast implants Carol Doda, I think was her name. I lived there when the AIDS thing started in the San Francisco bath houses. Google, "6 studios that made San Francisco a Gay-porn capital. I was there when the Mitchell bros opened the O'farrell theater (google that one ). Not only me but my dad was a good friend of Sally Stanford. Stanford ran one of San Francisco's most notorious brothels.^[San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen, writing about the UN, said "the United Nations was founded at Sally Stanford's whorehouse," because of the number of delegates to the organization's 1945 San Francisco founding conference who were Stanford customers;many actual, if informal, negotiating sessions took place in the brothel's living room. Yup I lived there. Still makes me smile.

Edited November 7, 2013 by thailiketoo

[AYJAYDEE]

San Francisco is not exactly the poster child for morals.

AND where exactly is???? Amsterdam? London? Rome? Athens? Paris?......really LOVE how everybody generalizes so much....Part of the "charm" of some cities is their unique differences....whatever they may be....No need to be judgemental... Have you ever lived in San Francisco? ...

I lived in San Francisco when the first go go bar in the world opened with the first stripper with breast implants Carol Doda, I think was her name. I lived there when the AIDS thing started in the San Francisco bath houses. Google, "6 studios that made San Francisco a Gay-porn capital. I was there when the Mitchell bros opened the O'farrell theater (google that one ). Not only me but my dad was a good friend of Sally Stanford. Stanford ran one of San Francisco's most notorious brothels.^[San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen, writing about the UN, said "the United Nations was founded at Sally Stanford's whorehouse," because of the number of delegates to the organization's 1945 San Francisco founding conference who were Stanford customers;many actual, if informal, negotiating sessions took place in the brothel's living room. Yup I lived there. Still makes me smile.

so does that make you and your dad immoral?

[soomak]

My options for long term stay are limited, as western countries generally do not enable it.

Viable options are South-East Asia, Central & South America.

Thailand was familiar, and has an ED visa, so I chose it. On the long term I doubt if I'll stay here, as I don't really like it.

Advantages from my point of view:

- ED visa enables you to stay 3 years with limited hassle and reasonable cost

- No taxes on my overseas income (which is not related to Thailand at all)

- Cost of living is about 50% of the cost in my home country - Israel

- It's developed enough to have the things I need, most importantly a good internet connection

- Cheap and available public transport and taxis

Disadvantages:

- Low level of English, so it's difficult to communicate

- The Thai language is very hard to master

- Too hot and humid (Israel's weather is definitely better)

- I don't really like the local food

- The food I like and am used too is quite expensive here.

- Driving is both on the left side, and dangerous, so I don't drive here. This certainly limits my traveling around the country

Overall, the main reason I am still here, is that moving a country is a big operation, and I am not eager to do it often.

As long as living here is "OK", I will stay. When I feel it's dropped below "OK", I will move on.

[thailiketoo]

San Francisco is not exactly the poster child for morals.

AND where exactly is???? Amsterdam? London? Rome? Athens? Paris?......really LOVE how everybody generalizes so much....Part of the "charm" of some cities is their unique differences....whatever they may be....No need to be judgemental... Have you ever lived in San Francisco? ...

I lived in San Francisco when the first go go bar in the world opened with the first stripper with breast implants Carol Doda, I think was her name. I lived there when the AIDS thing started in the San Francisco bath houses. Google, "6 studios that made San Francisco a Gay-porn capital. I was there when the Mitchell bros opened the O'farrell theater (google that one ). Not only me but my dad was a good friend of Sally Stanford. Stanford ran one of San Francisco's most notorious brothels.^[San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen, writing about the UN, said "the United Nations was founded at Sally Stanford's whorehouse," because of the number of delegates to the organization's 1945 San Francisco founding conference who were Stanford customers;many actual, if informal, negotiating sessions took place in the brothel's living room. Yup I lived there. Still makes me smile.

so does that make you and your dad immoral?

That's a funny story. I knew Sally much better than my dad. Dad knew her as a customer during WWII. I knew her when she was the mayor of Sausalito. Only in San Francisco can a brothel owner grow up to be mayor. But to answer your question. Well, my dad frequented brothels and I live in Thailand. The apple don't fall too far from the tree.

[AYJAYDEE]

that didnt answer my question at all. i asked if that made you IMMORAL?

[thailiketoo]

that didnt answer my question at all. i asked if that made you IMMORAL?

Sorry, of course. I take pride in it. Drugs , sex rock and roll ya know. San Fran used to be cool but got too PC and I came to Thailand. My theme song changed from "Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair" to "One night in Bangkok."

[beachproperty]

That's a funny story. I knew Sally much better than my dad. Dad knew her as a customer during WWII. I knew her when she was the mayor of Sausalito. Only in San Francisco can a brothel owner grow up to be mayor. But to answer your question. Well, my dad frequented brothels and I live in Thailand. The apple don't fall too far from the tree.

I find a few holes in your story...one is about knowing Sally Stanford so well .....she died in 1982....AND you knew her SO well!?!....but nice cut and paste job anyway! So if there is any truth to your story ...your 80 years old and full of it....

[thailiketoo]

That's a funny story. I knew Sally much better than my dad. Dad knew her as a customer during WWII. I knew her when she was the mayor of Sausalito. Only in San Francisco can a brothel owner grow up to be mayor. But to answer your question. Well, my dad frequented brothels and I live in Thailand. The apple don't fall too far from the tree.

I find a few holes in your story...one is about knowing Sally Stanford so well .....she died in 1982....AND you knew her SO well!?!....but nice cut and paste job anyway! So if there is any truth to your story ...your 80 years old and full of it....

I knew Sally when I was in my 20's and she was 70 something. She ran Sausalito from her restaurant bar as the mayor. She was elected mayor when she was 72. Not nice to call people a liar when you don't know them. You get punched a lot I imagine.

[JepSoDii]

news for ya, it isnt a sacrifice to everyone. these "things" that you demand have quality are completely unnecessary to many and even considered wasteful by some.

Gee, thanks for the insightful and illuminating newsflash. Now I have one for "ya:" I have demanded nothing, despite your allegation. Maybe you didn't read all of what I wrote, because you're joining "thespade" in making massive extrapolations on my lifestyle or attitude about Thailand based on what was merely my observations of the marketplace.

[JepSoDii]

The reason my post tends heavily on quality comparisons is because I engaged on someone else's post on quality comparisons (e.g., standard of living).

That's all I was saying.

JepSoDii, thanks for your civil reply. I understand the reasons for your points. What I think you're missing, however, is that "quality" is a subjective term.

Have you ever heard the expression, "one person's thousand-dollar rose garden is worth 10 cents to her neighbor?"

When I built my house in Udon Thani, I installed central air conditioning. Just after the ducting was installed, I took a couple of Thai friends to see the progress. One, owner of much of the landscape kitty-corner to Central Plaza, told me that he didn't see the need for the central AC, that it was a waste of money. After living in that house for a few years, I came to share his perspective.

I could never enjoy eating in a bamboo-hut restaurant in the U.S. Too many preconceptions of why the hut is bamboo, e.g., not to mention being used to eating in better places the rest of the time. In Thailand, however, I am so relaxed & peaceful in such places. Case in point, there's a restaurant built to quality standards I think you'd enjoy near Nong Prajak; I ate there once & was miserable. Instead of "quality" I saw arrogance & wastefulness, & felt that there was something not right with the atmosphere.

Prices in Thailand can be high if you need to purchase imported things or stuff that's geared to a higher standard of living (e.g., buying paper towels, Kleenex, Smoked Cheddar Cheese, etc. at Tesco Lotus). But if you can live like most Thais do, even the modestly wealthier ones, then Thailand is extremely less expensive than living in the west. One big exception is imported cars, though if I remember correctly, Japanese auto tariffs are scheduled to cease in a few years.

Not specifically heard of it but it makes good sense.

But here again, you're trying to share wisdom on something you assume I don't know and assume I don't already accept. I know all these things you said. I agree with them, even (shocker I know).

The only point I ever tried to make in the first place is that Thailand is not 25% the cost of most western places at the "same standard of living." The key and major point being "same standard." I'm saying if it's 25%, it's not the "same standard." For most of us, myself included, an adjustment in living standards is a welcome change, especially for the cost of living savings. If you want to live for 25% of the cost of back home, you must not expect the "same standard." It doesn't exist for that price. It is a different standard at that price. That is my view

You seem to know it (as judged by your post above, although I previously stated the same thing). I certainly know it. And plenty of others know it. All of us who are here willingly let go of some of the trappings of western society, though the fact that I merely point out it is not the "same standard" for 25% of the cost, seems to have been misinterpreted by many as me being unhappy with that.

I have said or implied nothing of the sort.

Because I had the temerity to say that in order to live at 25% of the cost of back home here, you have to have different standards, and had the balls to call it a "quality" reduction or sacrifice, some people were quick to jump to the conclusion that I was complaining or unhappy about it.

Not true.

I didn't realize stating my observations on cost of living and and standard of living differences, in a dispassionate way, was enough to throw many people on the defensive about their choice to live in Thailand. But this is Thaivisa. I like it but I should have known better. Many people here like to argue despite the fact that they don't really have disagreements. I guess it makes it more lively and exciting of a forum to participate in.

One last thing: I'm not "missing that quality is subjective," because although I believe that to be only partially true, I alluded to that in one of my earlier posts in this thread. I didn't miss it. I try to cover my bases. But alas, the angry crowd didn't catch it.

[Thai at Heart]

The reason my post tends heavily on quality comparisons is because I engaged on someone else's post on quality comparisons (e.g., standard of living).

That's all I was saying.

JepSoDii, thanks for your civil reply. I understand the reasons for your points. What I think you're missing, however, is that "quality" is a subjective term.

Have you ever heard the expression, "one person's thousand-dollar rose garden is worth 10 cents to her neighbor?"

When I built my house in Udon Thani, I installed central air conditioning. Just after the ducting was installed, I took a couple of Thai friends to see the progress. One, owner of much of the landscape kitty-corner to Central Plaza, told me that he didn't see the need for the central AC, that it was a waste of money. After living in that house for a few years, I came to share his perspective.

I could never enjoy eating in a bamboo-hut restaurant in the U.S. Too many preconceptions of why the hut is bamboo, e.g., not to mention being used to eating in better places the rest of the time. In Thailand, however, I am so relaxed & peaceful in such places. Case in point, there's a restaurant built to quality standards I think you'd enjoy near Nong Prajak; I ate there once & was miserable. Instead of "quality" I saw arrogance & wastefulness, & felt that there was something not right with the atmosphere.

Prices in Thailand can be high if you need to purchase imported things or stuff that's geared to a higher standard of living (e.g., buying paper towels, Kleenex, Smoked Cheddar Cheese, etc. at Tesco Lotus). But if you can live like most Thais do, even the modestly wealthier ones, then Thailand is extremely less expensive than living in the west. One big exception is imported cars, though if I remember correctly, Japanese auto tariffs are scheduled to cease in a few years.

Not specifically heard of it but it makes good sense.

But here again, you're trying to share wisdom on something you assume I don't know and assume I don't already accept. I know all these things you said. I agree with them, even (shocker I know).

The only point I ever tried to make in the first place is that Thailand is not 25% the cost of most western places at the "same standard of living." The key and major point being "same standard." I'm saying if it's 25%, it's not the "same standard." For most of us, myself included, an adjustment in living standards is a welcome change, especially for the cost of living savings. If you want to live for 25% of the cost of back home, you must not expect the "same standard." It doesn't exist for that price. It is a different standard at that price. That is my view

You seem to know it (as judged by your post above, although I previously stated the same thing). I certainly know it. And plenty of others know it. All of us who are here willingly let go of some of the trappings of western society, though the fact that I merely point out it is not the "same standard" for 25% of the cost, seems to have been misinterpreted by many as me being unhappy with that.

I have said or implied nothing of the sort.

Because I had the temerity to say that in order to live at 25% of the cost of back home here, you have to have different standards, and had the balls to call it a "quality" reduction or sacrifice, some people were quick to jump to the conclusion that I was complaining or unhappy about it.

Not true.

I didn't realize stating my observations on cost of living and and standard of living differences, in a dispassionate way, was enough to throw many people on the defensive about their choice to live in Thailand. But this is Thaivisa. I like it but I should have known better. Many people here like to argue despite the fact that they don't really have disagreements. I guess it makes it more lively and exciting of a forum to participate in.

One last thing: I'm not "missing that quality is subjective," because although I believe that to be only partially true, I alluded to that in one of my earlier posts in this thread. I didn't miss it. I try to cover my bases. But alas, the angry crowd didn't catch it.

I would whole heartedly agree comparing property in Thailand with the west. How does a bank in Thailand even pretend to know how to finance moobhan houses in Thailand over 25 years?

Anyone seen a 25 year old moobhan in Thailand? So the property is cheap? I absolutely disagree. For what it actually is, it's a fortune.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[NoshowJones]

The good far outweighs the bad in this country, no country is perfect, the only big letdowns for me are the standard of driving and riding motorbikes, and the some will, some won't attitude of the Immigration offices and banks. Fix those two things and this country would be a paradise.

[NoshowJones]

Why not? The Thais love foreigners...that is why you have to show and maintain a sizeable income to stay...

They check regularly to ensure you can still maintain your standard of living...and if not...they will be glad to assist your move elsewhere...

This may be the only country I know...where you have to examine...in minute detail every monetary transaction...you can be sure they have found some method of scamming you out of your baht...

And owning a home...yes...just place it in a Thais name...so in a few months or years...you can find yourself out of a place to stay...and did I mention unable to recoup the millions of baht you poured into the home in the purchase...furniture...and so on...

And who does not love to see foreigners displayed as moronic villains in the press...TV...and movies...

Ah...yes...Thailand is the place for me...

That's weird. I've never been asked to show how much money I have and I've been here nearly 6 years now.

No one's ever asked to check my Thai bank accounts

I've never been scammed; If I couldn't rid myself of the ridiculous obsession with owning property, I could easily buy a condo in my own name and cash out with the profits - market conditions permitting.

90% of Western men who buy/build property in their Thai wife's name are complete and utter morons and deserve to be hosed and sent packing if only as punishment for their sheer stupidity when there are so many highly-publicised horror stories floating around.

Yes. Thailand is the place for me

I and lots of other posters have bought their houses in their wives names, does that make us morons, who deserve to be hosed and stupid? You are talking out of your arse pal. I don't agree with those rules, I cannot speak for other posters, but for me I would still rather buy a house in my wifes name after taking months to find out what her and her family are like, than live in the overtaxed, very expensive to live in UK with it's dreadful weather, among many other negatives. You cannot go through life without taking chances, financially and otherwise, and so far everything has worked out for me.

[AYJAYDEE]

news for ya, it isnt a sacrifice to everyone. these "things" that you demand have quality are completely unnecessary to many and even considered wasteful by some.

Gee, thanks for the insightful and illuminating newsflash. Now I have one for "ya:" I have demanded nothing, despite your allegation. Maybe you didn't read all of what I wrote, because you're joining "thespade" in making massive extrapolations on my lifestyle or attitude about Thailand based on what was merely my observations of the marketplace.

"I'm just saying that while I agree it is very possible to live in Thailand for 25%, it requires quality and standards sacrifices. Those sacrifices may be easier for some than others, but comparable products are often cheaper at home."

youre the one that claimed it requires sacrifices. and i'm tellin you it may for some but not for others. when you make a blanket statement like that, it includes you.

[donniereadit]

I would agree except I can cook my apples in a 500 baht pan or a 2500 pan. The result is the same.

It costs me 500 baht to take out my Thai go go dancer for dinner and 2500 baht to take out my NYC go go dancer to dinner. May be worth it to you but not me.

I would compare the end and not the means.

Not if the handle breaks off

Probably not worth it at all. Why sit in a public restaurant with someone who hates your guts as a person?

[NeverSure]

are there actually any good reasons for living here rather than somewhere else?

Yes, tax reasons and ease of living here, no one asks any questions.

Its at time like this I feel sorry for my American friends with the draconian IRS on there back.

Personally I would rather be elsewhere and so would the mrs, but the visa situation prohibts this.

Never could understand why the good old US of A has never introduced some sort of retirement visa, guess they would rather have illegals than those with money.

That's a bloody good point. US retirement visas. Where are they? Why aren't they?

In one word paranoia.

Actually, is it easy or possible for a US citizen to retire in Europe? I looked into it and it doesn't seem so. I have a friend who married a gorgeous Belgium gal and he lives there but I can't in any way I know of.

There are some gorgeous gals in developing E. European countries and they are Caucasian. As in any other place where there's poverty, a fairly well off guy from a first world country will be "hansum man."

I would far rather be in Belgium than Thailand and I grew up with cold winters and like them. I don't like wet winters or foggy winters (depressing) but cold alone doesn't bother me.

[FiftyTwo]

90% of Western men who buy/build property in their Thai wife's name are complete and utter morons and deserve to be hosed and sent packing if only as punishment for their sheer stupidity when there are so many highly-publicised horror stories floating around.

Not quite right ......

In Thailand you put it in her name, in the western world the judge puts it in her name.

At least here, it's your choice.

[Kudel]

are there actually any good reasons for living here rather than somewhere else?

Yes, tax reasons and ease of living here, no one asks any questions.

Its at time like this I feel sorry for my American friends with the draconian IRS on there back.

Personally I would rather be elsewhere and so would the mrs, but the visa situation prohibts this.

Never could understand why the good old US of A has never introduced some sort of retirement visa, guess they would rather have illegals than those with money.

That's a bloody good point. US retirement visas. Where are they? Why aren't they?

In one word paranoia.

Actually, is it easy or possible for a US citizen to retire in Europe? I looked into it and it doesn't seem so. I have a friend who married a gorgeous Belgium gal and he lives there but I can't in any way I know of.

There are some gorgeous gals in developing E. European countries and they are Caucasian. As in any other place where there's poverty, a fairly well off guy from a first world country will be "hansum man."

I would far rather be in Belgium than Thailand and I grew up with cold winters and like them. I don't like wet winters or foggy winters (depressing) but cold alone doesn't bother me.

never,I am a Belgian myself and both of our country's have bilateral agreements concerning social security so why would it not by possible to retire to Belgium as a us citizen.i can get the necessary info for you if interested but it wil take a few days because it's a long weekend here because of remembrance day so most government offices are closed.

Concerning you not liking wet and foggy winters it's been raining non stop 2 weeks over here and the temperature is a nice 9 C at the moment ahummmm.....

[HardenedSoul]

I and lots of other posters have bought their houses in their wives names, does that make us morons, who deserve to be hosed and stupid? You are talking out of your arse pal. I don't agree with those rules, I cannot speak for other posters, but for me I would still rather buy a house in my wifes name after taking months to find out what her and her family are like, than live in the overtaxed, very expensive to live in UK with it's dreadful weather, among many other negatives. You cannot go through life without taking chances, financially and otherwise, and so far everything has worked out for me.

That a lot of other posters have bought houses in their wives' names only proves that your particular strain of stupidity is obviously airborne.

If I'm getting you right, you think that a few months spent evaluating a Thai woman and her family before buying a house in her name constitutes sufficient due diligence before effectively awarding her stewardship of a substantial sum of your money right??

I don't really think I need to go on.

90% of Western men who buy/build property in their Thai wife's name are complete and utter morons and deserve to be hosed and sent packing if only as punishment for their sheer stupidity when there are so many highly-publicised horror stories floating around.

Not quite right ......

In Thailand you put it in her name, in the western world the judge puts it in her name.

At least here, it's your choice.

Oh <deleted> geez, get over it.

I know loads of divorcees who kept the house and the lion's share of their money

You got hosed cos years ago, something in you - personality, demeanour etc - led your then-wife to believe that she could bend you over a barrel and part your buttocks.

You shouldn't have scrimped on the lawyer, mate.

[FiftyTwo]

I know loads of divorcees who kept the house and the lion's share of their money

And I don't know any divorced UK males (that had under age children) who kept the house.

Edited November 9, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[HardenedSoul]

I know loads of divorcees who kept the house and the lion's share of their money

And I don't know any divorced UK males (that had under age children) who kept the house.

Well what would your ideal scenario have been following the divorce? Your kids on their <deleted> while you sparked up a Havana cigar in the house??

Edited November 9, 2013 by HardenedSoul

[Kudel]

90% of Western men who buy/build property in their Thai wife's name are complete and utter morons and deserve to be hosed and sent packing if only as punishment for their sheer stupidity when there are so many highly-publicised horror stories floating around.

Not quite right ......

In Thailand you put it in her name, in the western world the judge puts it in her name.

At least here, it's your choice.

houses bought during marriage without prenup in my country would be sold after divorce and after all costs fifty fifty of proceeds between both people or one can buy the other out to keep said property.

Al properties and moneys obtained before marriage without prenup is yours to keep after divorce.

I now a Thai woman who got divorced from Belgian hubby a few years ago he was retired she was officially working no kids in marriage and he had a property before the marriage where they where both living.

She tried to get the half of his house and him to pay a lump sum of alimony for her.

Judge said:his property is his to keep and as she was officially making more money then him she was ordered to pay him a monthly sum of money .

Some people like to get screwed over in their home country and will experience the same in Thailand because they have no balls or the brains to seek and pay for good legal advice.

[FiftyTwo]

I know loads of divorcees who kept the house and the lion's share of their money

And I don't know any divorced UK males (that had under age children) who kept the house.

Well what would your ideal scenario have been following the divorce? Your kids on their <deleted> while you sparked up a Havana cigar in the house??

You're getting a bit off-topic now and changing the subject!

But I'll answer ......

At the time

My ideal scenario following the divorce would have been me living in my house with 100% custody of the children.

My ideal scenario before the divorce would have been one of us dying unexpectedly before anyone thought of divorce.

As it turned out both of us were left dissatisfied,

She was dissatisfied that she didn't get the 20% of my salary in child maintenance she was expecting (I retired before the application for divorce was filed, child maintenance can't be awarded from pension income, see my lawyer wasn't too stupid). She was also dissatisfied that I married a younger woman and had more children (so I didn't need to see her children).

I was dissatisfied I didn't get half my house and 50% custody of my original children.

Moving forward to now .......

I'm living a happy normal family life and enjoying my new children.

She .... dunno ..... never contacted her or her kids again, probably won't, they've all been replaced.

Edited November 9, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[AYJAYDEE]

I know loads of divorcees who kept the house and the lion's share of their money

And I don't know any divorced UK males (that had under age children) who kept the house.

Well what would your ideal scenario have been following the divorce? Your kids on their <deleted> while you sparked up a Havana cigar in the house??

You're getting a bit off-topic now and changing the subject!

But I'll answer ......

At the time

My ideal scenario following the divorce would have been me living in my house with 100% custody of the children.

My ideal scenario before the divorce would have been one of us dying unexpectedly before anyone thought of divorce.

As it turned out both of us were left dissatisfied,

She was dissatisfied that she didn't get the 20% of my salary in child maintenance she was expecting (I retired before the application for divorce was filed, child maintenance can't be awarded from pension income, see my lawyer wasn't too stupid). She was also dissatisfied that I married a younger woman and had more children (so I didn't need to see her children).

I was dissatisfied I didn't get half my house and 50% custody of my original children.

Moving forward to now .......

I'm living a happy normal family life and enjoying my new children.

She .... dunno ..... never contacted her or her kids again, probably won't, they've all been replaced.

were the kids she has yours?

[JepSoDii]

youre the one that claimed it requires sacrifices. and i'm tellin you it may for some but not for others. when you make a blanket statement like that, it includes you.

I am indeed. But you are the one choosing to only look at only one definition of the word sacrifice: the one where it infers suffering. I am here to tell you there is not only one entry in the dictionary for the word sacrifice.

Clearly I didn't intend that particular variation of the word. I used it as given up/lost.

It has nothing to do with whether or not you are happy with that which is given up, or whether or not you miss what you gave up, and you clearly don't, which is good. As you said, you consider it no sacrifice. Believe it or not, I am perfectly happy with the things I have given up too. I am here of my on volition.

I could have used the word "reduction" instead, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . . oh, nevermind.

My only point remains: if you wan to live at about 25% of the cost, it is not going to be the same (material) standard of living (unless you come from London, Central Hong Kong, Honolulu Manhattan, downtown S.F., etc). Quality of life is a separate issue.

[NeverSure]

But is it 25% of the cost anymore? If you consider comparable levels of living and luxury/materials, I don't think so. I wish it were and if you know how to do it, please tell me. Otherwise, I think Thailand does give you the option to live at 25% of the cost you would back home, if you accept some major standard of living compromises.

I agree regarding medical and dental treatment but that's one small part of COL. My apartment in Chiang Mai, would probably be 2x more to maybe 2.5x more in a comparable area in a comparable city in the States (not NYC, not a rural town). That's as big of a savings as I can see and it's the majority of my overhead monthly. And I'm still coming up short in some aspects of quality in my current place at that savings.

A lot of things--major expenses--are not only not as low as 25% of the cost or even merely less expensive in Thailand . . . a lot of our major expenses are actually more. The electricity is at least double based on similar usage and that's a big expense. Cars? Double. Alcohol, quadruple.

So aside from housing, what else is cheaper in Thailand and is as cheap as 25%? Produce? Maybe at the market, but not 25% of what it is back home in a comparable environment (grocery store to grocery store) because produce is pretty cheap there too.

One last thing though, I agree you can live here relatively comfortably for 25% of what you spend in the west, so long as you are willing to make material sacrifices. It is certainly possible to keep your overhead low. My disagreement is only where you said "same standard of living."

Gasoline (1 liter) Chiang Mai 39.00 ฿ San Jose 32.95 ฿ -15.52 %

Basic (Electricity, Heating, Water, Garbage) for 85m2 Apartment

Chiang Mai 2,111.32 ฿ San Jose 5,191.26 ฿

Meal, Inexpensive Restaurant CM 45.00 ฿ SJ 374.16 ฿ +731.47 %

Meal for 2, Mid-range Restaurant, Three-course CM 500.00 ฿ SJ 1,870.80 ฿ +274.16 %

When I lived in CM I had a condo and a crash pad. The crash pad downtown was really groovy and really cheap except for no ac; which was OK for a crash pad it gave me that native feeling

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http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Thailand&country2=United+States&city1=Chiang+Mai&city2=San+Jose%2C+CA

Consumer Prices Including Rent in San Jose, CA are 192.89% higher than in Chiang Mai

No fair. San Jose is the Bay Area. It is Silicon Valley. It is excessively expensive even for the USA. It, and its immediate surrounds are the home of Ebay and Cisco and PayPal and so many others. CM is a shit hole by comparison.

I will agree that one can live cheaper in CM than most places in the US if you give up the Western lifestyle and amenities. If you want the Western amenities, cars, electronics or foods, they are cheaper in the US.

There is nothing wrong with moving to Thailand on a budget and doing fine. But let's not pretend it is what it isn't.