Thai lower house passes political amnesty bill

[jayboy]

I don't disagree.The PTP parliamentary party has towed the Thaksin line.But it's far from being the opinion ofPTP/redshirt/ liberal and progressive opinion in the country at large.Nitirat - for example -, the group that the usual suspects moronically described as Thaksin lackeys, has been very clear about its disapproval.

It's not only PTP that has towed the line, it is also, for all intents and purposes, the red shirts who have towed the line. Remember them, the ones who are "more than just a Thaksin support group", the ones who are "evolving into a true grassroots movement of the people"?

As for those "friends" of Thaksin who have been brave enough to express their disapproval, let's not mislead anyone here. Their disapproval concerns the whitewashing of those involved in the deaths of the protesters. It has nothing to do with Thaksin being whitewashed. If they could have contrived a way (they may still do) in which Thaksin be whitewashed, but Abhisit and co left out, you wouldn't be hearing even a murmur of dissent right now.

No, on this you are simply wrong.There have been some excellent articles on this subject recently, notably by David Streckfuss in the other paper.

The only time you will be able to say i am wrong, is if a situation is contrived in which Thaksin gets his get out of jail free card, but Abhisit and co don't, and those "friends" of Thaksin, remain vocal in their disagreement. That is the only real test on how strongly they are opposed to Thaksin's whitewash.

My guess is that they are as strongly as opposed as all those divided of opinion PTP and red shirt MPs were, when over 300 hundred of them voted yes.

No I don't agree with your prescriptive definition.In any case we are discussing what progressive opinion (intellectuals, liberals, enlightened redshirts etc) think now not at some future point - when circumstances in the rapidly changing world of Thai politics could be very different.However if I can tentatively summarise the view of this group it is that there should be an amnesty for those at lower and perhaps even upper levels on both sides but the leaders (Abhisit,Suthep,Thaksin etc) should be dealt with by the courts.There is also a strong view that those involved inthe 2006 coup should also be tried by the courts, which obviously means a repeal of the amnesty these people awarded themselves in the 2007 constitution.Ideally the army leadership involved in the 2010 deaths would also be tried - but even the most idealistic liberal doesn't really believe in his heart of hearts that this will ever happen.But who knows - there's stormy weather ahead and nobody can predict the Thai future with certainty

[rixalex]

No I don't agree with your prescriptive definition.In any case we are discussing what progressive opinion (intellectuals, liberals, enlightened redshirts etc) think now not at some future point - when circumstances in the rapidly changing world of Thai politics could be very different.However if I can tentatively summarise the view of this group it is that there should be an amnesty for those at lower and perhaps even upper levels on both sides but the leaders (Abhisit,Suthep,Thaksin etc) should be dealt with by the courts.There is also a strong view that those involved inthe 2006 coup should also be tried by the courts, which obviously means a repeal of the amnesty these people awarded themselves in the 2007 constitution.Ideally the army leadership involved in the 2010 deaths would also be tried - but even the most idealistic liberal doesn't really believe in his heart of hearts that this will ever happen.But who knows - there's stormy weather ahead and nobody can predict the Thai future with certainty

As i say, voicing some logical and well-reasoned opinions is one thing, putting money where the mouth is, is quite another.

Up until it came time to vote, red shirted MPs and "of divided opinion" PTP MPs, were saying one thing, but then it came time to vote, and one way or another, they all fell into line.

Talk is cheap as they say.

[Showbags]

The Thais on the web boards and facebook are up in arms over this blanket whitewash.

The biggest contributions are being made by red shirts.

My wife is flicking through them and showing me all the anti-Thaksin rants and smears that are now coming out from the red corner. They seem to be really turning against Thaksin now.

The sentiment seems to be spreading like wild fire across the red camp.

This is now proof positive that probably the entire population is against it. This is not going to go away or fizzle out, it is on the increase and when a whole population becomes angered, then there can really only be one outcome.

We need a good stoning....Monday's are good for stonings.

[rubl]

The Democrats consistently walk out of Parliamentary debates if they disagree with what is being mooted. They are not refused the right to speak they are deliberately abstaining from voting because they know that they will lose the vote

Thaksin is an unfortunate distraction in this attempt by Pheu Thai to draw a line under the unfortunate events of the past few years.

Yellow shirts have killed people, Red shirts have killed people, members of the political parties and the security forces have often been complicit in the deaths. But the only way forward in my view is a period of forgiveness and reconciliation such as we witnessed in South Africa following the end of apartheid

I have just watched one of the leaders of the Democratic party on YouTube ranting and raving and fermenting violence. He reminded me of Adolph Hitler addressing a Nuremberg Rally. So puffed up is he with his own importance he cannot comprehend that his warlike rhetoric and bile may well cost the lives of yet more, often innocent, citizens

In saying all this now is clearly not the right moment for Mr Thaksin to return to Thailand. Memories must be allowed to dim further.

What Thailand needs at this time is a benevolent dictator. Thais are like the Egyptians. They are not ready for democracy

The Democrats are consistently curltailed in the time allottted for questions. Remember the house speaker who 'accidentily switched off a microphone and indicated "I can't hear you?".

Youtube? Ever seen the PTV shoutcasts of Arisaman, Nattawut c.s. ? Now those more resemble Hitler and his, shouting, daemonising others, etc., etc. Abhisit may be a bit too academic at times for some, but his restrain is more real and true that the bragging of Pheu Thai members on "Thaksin has sufferent a lot", "what is good for Thaksin should be good for you", etc., etc.

As for the rest, "Thailand needs a benevolent dictator?" Are you for real, penwithoutcris? Are you advocating a coup or 'just' the return of Thaksin the Innocent here?

[rubl]

...

Keep in mind that they are for the majority uneducated people and have no idea how a constitution works.

Unlike the learned members of TV posting herein?

Here's a radical thought; how about Thai's knowing exactly how the Thai constitution works? They have had enough of the bloody things after all.

So the Senate rolls over on this Amnesty Bill (it's only a matter of buying off more career politico's after all) and after much wailing and gnashing of teeth, the (self) anointed one returns. Then it gets real rowdy, real quick and the Army eventually steps in and seriously pisses on EVERYONE'S parade. After issuing the usual admonishments and arbitrary jail terms (and a quick rewrite of the Constitution so they can renew their 'Get Out of Jail' card), they dick about for 3 to 5 years while the Democrats try and get their act together. Meanwhile the Thai economy doggy paddles and development stagnates another 5-years (still no 4G, sorry...). Curiously, there's still no huge abandonment by the Japanese and other multinational investors but by the same token, there's no new money lining up; that's slipping next door into Myanmar. Eventually, the Democrats get pole-position at forming yet another post-coup "people's" government. However, it is promptly burdened with trying all these PTP, red-shirt and otherwise tainted personages that the Army banged up but chose not to <deleted> with since that meant getting off the fence and showing true colours. More sentences, even more appeals and the inevitable pardons for those with money and connections. So, with one leg tied behind their back, the Dems get pushed into another arse-kicking contest... and get their <deleted> kicked... AGAIN.

Have I missed anything?

I mean anything that we are allowed to talk about here?

Missed something? The important part, my dear chap!

All this misery ensures that foreign companies will have a minimaly educated workforce for the menial tasks still remaining in manufacturing. Plus a rich elite upcountry to keep the people in check.

[animatic]

Showbags said 01 Nov 2013 > Good, you get what you deserve.

Why do we deserve the country being disrupted, yet again, by the Thaksin clans quest for power?

No one deserves this, least of all the average Thai citizen trying to go about their life without fear.

Clearly this is a big deal because we now see a 'concerted push' starting

to sway minds and build sentiment against the protest and for the plan.

This alway happens before something Thaksin wants his way.

It is Thailand not Farangland.

The Thai people are responsible for what they have created.

People have the choice to change and promote good things, but here they do not and are led to wherever the trough is the fullest.

But everyone suffers from the machinations of this clan.

If you have no say in the matter because you have been conned,

then you are as much a victim as anyone. No matter where you come from.

The country was just getting back on it's feet from the last few years of political stupidity,

and now they seem set for yet another round. And the source of the troubles is obvious.

It is amazing that you this 'back on your feet'.

I am wondering if the spook people got the dates wrong with the 18th of last month and meant this month.

Intentional misquote??

I said quite clearly

"The country was just getting back on it's feet..."

Nothing about myself. Stop trying to twist words for effect, it doesn't win points.

Edited November 3, 2013 by animatic

[yoshiwara]

No I don't agree with your prescriptive definition.In any case we are discussing what progressive opinion (intellectuals, liberals, enlightened redshirts etc) think now not at some future point - when circumstances in the rapidly changing world of Thai politics could be very different.However if I can tentatively summarise the view of this group it is that there should be an amnesty for those at lower and perhaps even upper levels on both sides but the leaders (Abhisit,Suthep,Thaksin etc) should be dealt with by the courts.There is also a strong view that those involved inthe 2006 coup should also be tried by the courts, which obviously means a repeal of the amnesty these people awarded themselves in the 2007 constitution.Ideally the army leadership involved in the 2010 deaths would also be tried - but even the most idealistic liberal doesn't really believe in his heart of hearts that this will ever happen.But who knows - there's stormy weather ahead and nobody can predict the Thai future with certainty

'Progressive opinion'.... '(enlightened redshirts)'. That would be you we presume?

[Colabamumbai]

Looks like Jinger Ben is coming back in time for Christmas.

I'm dreaming of a white(washed) Christmas...

For those who can read between the lines... It may be a "Blue Christmas".

Or red if there is blood in the streets.