property investment: thailand or elsewhete in asia?

[mike111]

I've been looking at property investment in thai. Some opportunities but also risks.

Any suggestions on other countries to consider?

maybe vietnam? Laos? Mynmar?

How are they in terms of foreign ownership of real estate?

TIA

[trogers]

Here's a start. Foreign ownership of land in all Asean countries is highly restrictive.

http://www.business-in-asia.com/news/land_in_southeast_asia.html

[davejones]

How about the UK. I think it offers much better potential returns and is probably considerably safe to own.

Why did you pick Thailand and surrounding countries as a potential investment choice? Just curious.

[mike111]

As I dont reside & work in the UK so I assume I wont be able to apply for a mortage and would need to pay in cash for the properties. This is restrictive.

Cheaper prices in thailand means the latter issue is avoided.

Nevertheless, I am interested in exploring opportunities elsewhere. What makes the UK preferable to other European countries in terms of property investment?

Edited November 2, 2013 by mike111

[davejones]

As I dont reside & work in the UK so I assume I wont be able to apply for a mortage and would need to pay in cash for the properties. This is restrictive.

Cheaper prices in thailand means the latter issue is avoided.

Nevertheless, I am interested in exploring opportunities elsewhere. What makes the UK preferable to other European countries in terms of property investment?

I don't know whether UK is a better for property investment than the rest of the Europe. I'm from the UK, understand the market and find dealing with things in my own language much preferable to buying in a foreign country. I'm sure there must be some good areas in Europe for property investment but I've no idea where they are and don't understand each market, so there's not much point for me. Location is almost everything when it comes to property investment and I know many parts of the UK well enough to make an informed decision. I just wouldn't be able to do that elsewhere in Europe. I think a mistake many make is that they just choose a general area in stead of a very specific area. Even buying a few streets apart can mean the difference between a good and bad investment.

Do you have a particular town in mind at the moment?

[PattayaPhom]

For around minimum 42K $US you can get in Pattaya after maintenace etc a return of 8% or slightly more. Dont expect much appreciation on capitol but 8% net isnt that bad. Singapore and Malaysia are very restricted if not more so than Thailand. Burma is expensive, the boat there sailed a few years ago

[george]

Check out the property blog at http://property.thaivisa.com

It gives you some insights and tips on buying/owning property in Thailand.

[davejones]

For around minimum 42K $US you can get in Pattaya after maintenace etc a return of 8% or slightly more. Dont expect much appreciation on capitol but 8% net isnt that bad. Singapore and Malaysia are very restricted if not more so than Thailand. Burma is expensive, the boat there sailed a few years ago

How easy are the properties to rent out though? I've seen many people/companies quote rental returns, but sometimes it's just not possible to rent at those prices. You can get lucky sometimes, but with so many properties available, surely that would drive down the rents. I find it hard to believe that you'd get an 8% return after ALL costs. Don't forget void periods, refurbishments once in a while, etc.

[isawasnake]

I think Thailand's stock market is much more appealing given the lack of capital gains tax, and the fact that you will never have to fix a leaky pipe or poorly done finishing.

[mike111]

Anyone knows whats the value appreciation in % yearly for condos in pattaua/jomtien?

[johnnyk]

My opinions

Pattaya is overbuilt at this time.

Viet Nam and Laos are communist and foreigners not permitted to own property. Same may be true of Myanmar unless you are a corporation investing big money on hotels, factories etc.

Cambodia is a property nightmare, not sure if falang freehold is possible and gangsters to make life even more pleasant.

Malaysia seems to offer the best property scenarios for foreigners but considerably more expensive with pain in the neck religious issues lurking.

Best property deals in the world right now are in the USA, value for money, political stability, rule of law, proper enforceable contracts, everyday transactions not subject to corruption at every turn. And everything is in English.

[Bpuumike]

Getting a bit outside of topic, but Spain is good right now.

Again, location is everything and forget about renting as the laws are very much against the owner.

I still keep a place there but won't rent it.

[davejones]

Getting a bit outside of topic, but Spain is good right now.

Again, location is everything and forget about renting as the laws are very much against the owner.

I still keep a place there but won't rent it.

If you don't rent it out, how do you make money from it. Capital appreciation would need to keep pace with inflation as well as lost interest on the money spend purchasing.I'd steer clear of new build in Spain though, as there's a chance they'll come and knock down your property. Lots of corruption there. And some horrendous stories from people that lost their life savings due to corrupt politicians and others. And the government have done nothing to help.

[rgs2001uk]

As I dont reside & work in the UK so I assume I wont be able to apply for a mortage and would need to pay in cash for the properties. This is restrictive.

Cheaper prices in thailand means the latter issue is avoided.

Nevertheless, I am interested in exploring opportunities elsewhere. What makes the UK preferable to other European countries in terms of property investment?

I don't know whether UK is a better for property investment than the rest of the Europe. I'm from the UK, understand the market and find dealing with things in my own language much preferable to buying in a foreign country. I'm sure there must be some good areas in Europe for property investment but I've no idea where they are and don't understand each market, so there's not much point for me. Location is almost everything when it comes to property investment and I know many parts of the UK well enough to make an informed decision. I just wouldn't be able to do that elsewhere in Europe. I think a mistake many make is that they just choose a general area in stead of a very specific area. Even buying a few streets apart can mean the difference between a good and bad investment.

Do you have a particular town in mind at the moment?

^^^^, well said that man,

mike111 doesnt tell us where he is from, if from the UK try London for starters, there are other areas that can be explored as well, he doesnt say if he is looking to buy for capital appreciation or for rental income, no mention made of time frame.

I watch these telly programmes, Holiday Homes From Hell, Spain, Cyprus, Portugal, Greece etc spring to mind, and I think to myself, Thailand same same but different.

A few years ago I was sent an inviatation to invest in some Bulagarian property Investment Trust, I declined, despite all the claims of instant riches, before I made the decision I thought back to the suckers would had invested in ostrich farms in Australia a few years ago.

I stick to what I know, if I dont understand it I dont touch it.

I have seen nothing that makes me want to sell my UK properties and invest in Thailand, despite the usual suspects trotting out the usual crap, oh you have missed the boat etc.

As mentioned in another post, the "postal code lotterty system" comes into play, a house down the road can be worth thousands less, not because its not a decent house, its the school catchement area that people want.

Cheaper prices in thailand means the latter issue is avoided.

Please give an example of cheaper prices, I was reading the other day about 1 million baht condos in Bang Saray, no I didnt bother to phone an estate agent and pre book 5 off the plan units.

Over on another thread some guy was complaining about property in Hua Hin being turned into basically a "knocking shop", great stuff best I get down there tomorrow and snap some of that up, sorry dont think so.

[rgs2001uk]

Love this thread,

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/676628-juristic-persons-want-to-introduce-rental-fee/

You gotta laugh,

"BUt from the outset, it was marketed to many as an investment for rentals...... so they knew what they were getting involved with (or at least the should have)"

I remember driving into Pattaya a few years ago and reading the 12% that was available from properties just like the above, sadly the advets have long since gone, wonder how many got suckered into these places?

[johnnyk]

Some developers and agents use the "guaranteed rental return" ruse to lure buyers.

It works like this:

Advertised "Guaranteed 5/6/7% rental return for 1/2/3 years!"

Simply boost the selling price by 5/6/7% and give the buyer the % as a discount.

Seller makes the sale at the price he actually wants and the buyer toddles off to the bar with a smile thinking he has made a deal for himself.

[Bpuumike]

Getting a bit outside of topic, but Spain is good right now.

Again, location is everything and forget about renting as the laws are very much against the owner.

I still keep a place there but won't rent it.

If you don't rent it out, how do you make money from it. Capital appreciation would need to keep pace with inflation as well as lost interest on the money spend purchasing.I'd steer clear of new build in Spain though, as there's a chance they'll come and knock down your property. Lots of corruption there. And some horrendous stories from people that lost their life savings due to corrupt politicians and others. And the government have done nothing to help.

I don't make money from it, in fact it costs to run.

Have had it 14 years in a small block of 18 apartments and our community president is a Spanish lawyer so no worries.

I would seriously move back now but the Thai wife is too attached to the family.

It's always a bolt hole if things go TITS up in TIT

[olfu]

Where the heck you managed to read about cheap Thailand properties?

I visit Pattaya at least once a year and check condo prices and they are about 3 times higher than in USA.

[johnnyk]

What? How can you compare prices in a city of 200,000 with an entire country of 300 million or more population?

How can you generalize about prices in the USA? Ear Falls, West Virginia is not exactly comparable with Upper East Side Manhattan.

Compare apples to apples.

[KittenKong]

If you look at condos in (say) Florida which I think is fairly comparable to Pattaya then you can indeed find nice sea-view units there for much less per sqm than they are here. And the build quality appears to be much better there.

My personal opinion is that much of this is down to the unduly high value of the Baht.

Though of course one downside of buying a condo in the US is that as a non-US citizen one may find it extremely difficult (ie impossible) to actually live in it for more than part of the year due to visa issues.

[trogers]

If you look at condos in (say) Florida which I think is fairly comparable to Pattaya then you can indeed find nice sea-view units there for much less per sqm than they are here. And the build quality appears to be much better there.

My personal opinion is that much of this is down to the unduly high value of the Baht.

Though of course one downside of buying a condo in the US is that as a non-US citizen one may find it extremely difficult (ie impossible) to actually live in it for more than part of the year due to visa issues.

Wait out another decade and you can get a condo unit in Florida at 20% of today's prices - due to rising sea levels and storm surges.

[PattayaPhom]

Comparing prices to US, Europe or anywhere is irrelevant. Whats so special about Florida, try walking down the street at 3am without being mugged or shot. Asia is now a 21st Century continent, Tesco, Makro, Big C Ford etc etc etc....its not what it was 20 years ago. Its a fact that apart from London most UK properties have lost 25% since 2007, wheres the capitol appreciation there????....tax etc etc on rent...any astute investor has made on appeciation here, guys with villas in the boonies havnt but established well located condos have.

[KittenKong]

Comparing prices to US, Europe or anywhere is irrelevant.

All comparisons are relevant. Comparisons are what enables one to get an idea of prices and value, for all types of things and everywhere.

[KittenKong]

Wait out another decade and you can get a condo unit in Florida at 20% of today's prices - due to rising sea levels and storm surges.

Presumably that would apply to Pattaya and Phuket also? My condo entrance is only a few metres above sea level.

Or maybe this means we should be buying at the top of Pratumnak: in a decade it will be beachfront.

[johnnyk]

Comparing prices to US, Europe or anywhere is irrelevant.

All comparisons are relevant. Comparisons are what enables one to get an idea of prices and value, for all types of things and everywhere.

As long as apples are compared to apples and not oranges.

[trogers]

Wait out another decade and you can get a condo unit in Florida at 20% of today's prices - due to rising sea levels and storm surges.

Presumably that would apply to Pattaya and Phuket also? My condo entrance is only a few metres above sea level.

Or maybe this means we should be buying at the top of Pratumnak: in a decade it will be beachfront.

That few metres should mean you and your children will not have a flooded lobby in their lifetimes, unless another tsunami strikes Phuket.

But the coastal communities of Florida are now experiencing floods when it rains and during storm surges from hurricanes.

"O’Brien believes that businesses will respond to sea level rise if it begins to threaten their profitability and that homeowners will stop buying in places that repeatedly flood without much nudging needed from the government."

http://www.floridatrend.com/article/15814/a-rising-concern?page=1