How Do You Keep A Relationship Healthy?

[DUMPSTER]

I’m now into my 3rd year of my relationship with my Thai b/f. My last relationship with a Thai lasted 2 years. It took 2 years of trying to get along with each other until I realized I was in a losing battle, so we parted amicably and are still friends.

Now for me, it seems to be around the 2 year stage that I get twitchy and I start to question all aspects of my life and relationship. I ask questions like: Do I see myself with this guy in 5 or 10 years time? Should I bail out now? Would I be better of single?

Now, of course, the honeymoon period is well over and sex has become routine and rather boring. Actually, we hardly have intimate relations because of this. We do the same thing every time, which doesn’t include any form of penetration. I guess the main problem is he is a bottom but finds it painful to do and I am versatile. So although I love being with my b/f, sex has definitely become a problem in our relationship, well for me it has, he seems to be fine with it. I have tried talking about it. I have tried opening up to the possibility of spicing it up. He doesn’t seem interested. I’ve mentioned threesomes but he doesn’t want to do, we’ve watched porno together but it doesn’t really do anything for me. I just don’t know what to do.

I know my b/f will never leave me and he is in this relationship for life and accepts the good and the bad parts of it. After I split with my last Thai b/f I did say to myself that I wouldn’t enter a relationship unless the guy was versatile, me ex was a bottom too, and i’m beginning to regret not sticking to my words. Because I am happy being with my b/f out of the bedroom, so far, I’ve accepted the problems in the bedroom. Now 2.5 years into the relationship I’m seriously questioning the longevity of such a relationship.

So my questions are: What would you do in this situation? And, How do you keep ALL aspects of a relationship healthy?

Edited May 2, 2006 by DUMPSTER

[ajarnmark]

Well same problem here. I am a foreign guy with a Thai GF. I was married to a girl in my country. Had a wonderful life for 1 year and then everything lost, in terms of relationship. Moved to BKK, thought it would be fun. I found a really nice girl, belongs to a respectable family, good job.

I was happy with her in the beginning but then everything is going to the same way, I dont want them to go. I read a statistics about the couples in Singapore have sex roughly 104 times a year. But for me it hardly hits the double digit during the last six months. Well sex is not everything, but it is important. Very happy with her outside bedroom, she has brains, good english (as she graduated her master degree from the top university in TEFL), a knowledge about everything.

But..... the relationship is getting doomed (in US English "f***ed). Seems like this is the problem of every couple nowadays. None of my friends who have good working girls are happy with their GFs. Some of the fellas r with BGs n seems like they r happier than us.

Finally, God bless her for our dooming relationships n probably he gives some wisdom to our partners to understand what we need from them.

Poor me

[ajarnmark]

Well same problem here. I am a foreign guy with a Thai GF. I was married to a girl in my country. Had a wonderful life for 1 year and then everything lost, in terms of relationship. Moved to BKK, thought it would be fun. I found a really nice girl, belongs to a respectable family, good job.

I was happy with her in the beginning but then everything is going to the same way, I dont want them to go. I read a statistics about the couples in Singapore have sex roughly 104 times a year. But for me it hardly hits the double digit during the last six months. Well sex is not everything, but it is important. Very happy with her outside bedroom, she has brains, good english (as she graduated her master degree from the top university in TEFL), a knowledge about everything.

But..... the relationship is getting doomed (in US English "f***ed). Seems like this is the problem of every couple nowadays. None of my friends who have good working girls are happy with their GFs. Some of the fellas r with BGs n seems like they r happier than us.

Finally, God bless her for our dooming relationships n probably he gives some wisdom to our partners to understand what we need from them.

Poor me

Sorry, I did not read the heading of this topic. I am not a gay, so my experience is not applicable to ur situation

MODERATOR'S NOTE: That's okay, ajarnmark. Much of what you said does relate to gay sex, just as what the OP of this thread helped you relate to the subject. Some of us gay men used to have straight partners, too. You're welcome to comment, when your comments are as respectful as yours were.

///PeaceBlondie///

[ProThaiExpat]

I have learned over the years that the only thing one can change in a relationship is yourself. If you cannot or will not change, your relationship is doomed.

An example of how you can change is by not projecting what your relationship will be 10 years from now! You will change and so will he, over time, and who knows what those changes will be.

I am in the 5th year of my falang/Thai experience and I have changed a great deal. My partner likewise has made many changes.

Our sexual relaionship has changed as well. Dimunition of frequency is a given in long term relationships and if your under sixty, the average is around two times a week, in long term relationships. Obviously there is greater and less frequency than this, depending on the individuals.

The sexual experience is best enjoyed when a great deal of love is involved, satisfying your partner usually becomes more important in a loving relationship than satisfying onceself.

The infinite variety of sexual expression surely offers an answer to any particular functional sexual difficulty between two people. When young, I thought there was really only one way I could perform sexually. Time and experience with various lovers has led me to believe that anything goes when you are in love and engage in loving sex.

My suggestion regarding the current sexual concerns you have, dumpster, is to determine the level of love you have for your partner. If your acknowledge that it could merely have been infatuation, then end it.

In the event you still "love" him, in an adult way and want to continue to have him in your life, then experiment and come up with loving ways to make him sexually satisfied and have him do the same.

This advice is from a guy who once prided himself in experiencing simultaneous climax as the only gauge of a sucessful relationship to one who now writes about sexual accomodation as an expression of loving. Getting the "mechanics" out of who does what during a loving encounter to achieve climax or non climax satisfaction is the road toward long term relationship happiness, in my view.

[PeaceBlondie]

In a continuing and developing relationship over several years' time, you realize things about the partner's needs that you didn't know before. When I saw the topic title, "How to Keep a Relationship Healthy..." I thought, you both have to work at understanding each other's emotional and sexual needs.

Dumpster, congratulations for baring your soul enough to start this thread. LTR's are not easy. If your b/f doesn't want to do threesomes, is he also expecting you to be faithful even though he can't meet all of your needs? Do you meet all his needs? Can you discuss it, knowing both of you are being open and honest? I'm not trying to answer these questions, just giving you food for thought. Good luck.

[DUMPSTER]

Well sex is not everything, but it is important. Very happy with her outside bedroom, she has brains, good english (as she graduated her master degree from the top university in TEFL), a knowledge about everything.

Sounds very similar to my bf. He has the exact same qualification probably from the same uni I think.

My feeling is that Thais seem to just accept the way things are without making any effort to improve the situation. I think there has to be some sort of compromise but a relationship without sex doesnt appear that exciting to me

[DUMPSTER]

Dumpster, congratulations for baring your soul enough to start this thread. LTR's are not easy. If your b/f doesn't want to do threesomes, is he also expecting you to be faithful even though he can't meet all of your needs? Do you meet all his needs? Can you discuss it, knowing both of you are being open and honest? I'm not trying to answer these questions, just giving you food for thought. Good luck.

PB, i'm not sure I meet all his needs, probably I dont. He never says anything or complains. Maybe i'm being selfish or we simply need to sit down and talk about it.

PTE twice a week for the under 60's. Wow that beats my once a month and i'm under 40!

relationships do have to evolve, I see that, and we are doing so. We have grown alot in 2.5 years together all except the sex side of our relationship. i like sex and i'm not sure my b/f does that much.

Edited May 2, 2006 by DUMPSTER

[LaoPo]

Please allow me to react, although I'm not gay.

The moment someone is questioning about his/her relationship and doubst are coming into the mind....stop!

For both parties it's better; if the 2 are not able to communicate about the problems (in or out of bed) and solve them, it's better to stop.

Don't hurt yourself (and the other) anymore.

You could give yourself and your partner an ultimate chance by having a long weekend to some romantic tropical place/island and discuss (away from home and work) all the problems which are in both your minds and clear the sky.

If those problems are not to overcome and solved.....you know the answer

Good luck!

LaoPo

[DUMPSTER]

Onething that surely doesnt help your sex life is working long hours. Both my b/f and I have full time jobs plus a business which we do in the evenings and weekends. I work until 9pm everyday and also on saturdays and Sundays. We have no time for ourselves and we are too tired to do anything in the evening.

LaoPo, your idea of some romantic time together sounds a good idea. Recently we went away for the Songkran holiday but again we didn't do anything in the bedroom. I just don't have alot of passion in me to start. I'm not sure why but maybe it's because I don't want to go through the same routine again.

Edited May 3, 2006 by DUMPSTER

[LaoPo]

Onething that surely doesnt help your sex life is working long hours. Both my b/f and I have full time jobs plus a business which we do in the evenings and weekends. I work until 9pm everyday and also on saturdays and Sundays. We have no time for ourselves and we are too tired to do anything in the evening.

LaoPo, your idea of some romantic time together sounds a good idea. Recently we went away for the Songkran holiday but again we didn't do anything in the bedroom. I just don't have alot of passion in me to start. I'm not sure why but maybe it's because I don't want to go through the same routine again.

Well, yes, you gave the answer already. You're both stressed and overly tired; You work 7 days a week including evenings.....no wonder the adventures in bed aren't a success lately.

It seems to me that Songkran wasn't really the time to relax....so maybe you 2 should plan a few days more (if possible) to a remote island

Keep trying to save the relationship...and mind your health....there's only 1 life; this one.

LaoPo

[PeaceBlondie]

Well, if both persons in the relationship have ordered their priorities so that there's little quality time left for sex, it's unlikely that they'll do anything. As it does for a crime, sex requires means, motive, and opportunity. There's not much motive left when a person hits the sack at the end of a 17 hour day, and there are no opportunities the rest of the day.

[DUMPSTER]

When I hit the sack i just want to sleep. I have no desire for sex. Obviously that is a major drawback in our relationship and we need to do something about getting the balance right.

[bieles]

what happens now to you is a story old as the world

and nothing really because thai/frg's

I told my bf : we never forget to talk together, if we begin to talk alone (or also maybe like this, only with others)... it's the end.

If u 'eally love your friend, meet his soul

[Brodsky]

This is certainly not a problem unique to thai-farang relationships im quite sure! It seems to be an inevitable consequence of being in a relationship, that the sexual side of things can get a bit routine a bit functional. Facts are after a few years, you know what's going to happen, and there isn't that excitement and anticipation!

In my last serious relationship, talking years not months or days! lol, the best sex ever was after we'd been apart for a few weeks! so the answer is take a long holiday without him! (ok not very practical).

anyway, nevermind keeping a relationship healthy what about starting one at all! ive been living here over a year now, met plenty of guys ( ), met a couple of guys who i might have been really interested in, and obviouslly plenty who were interested in me (for whatever reason), but I'm still single, and i think its time i wasnt! LOL (well i think this about 4-5 days of the week)! haha

I suppose it's the age old problem of meeting the sort of guys i might be really compatible with! where are they!!?

[Steve2UK]

I have learned over the years that the only thing one can change in a relationship is yourself. If you cannot or will not change, your relationship is doomed.

An example of how you can change is by not projecting what your relationship will be 10 years from now! You will change and so will he, over time, and who knows what those changes will be.

I think PTE put his finger on it. At any rate, it's the closest I can right now imagine to finding an approach/attitude that has a better than average chance of working. Some might see it as "lowering your expectations" but I see it as more positive than that - i.e. just trying to change (or trying to allow change in) the way we look at it. I'm certainly a serial offender in the "thinking ahead" department; even in my native UK, many friends have told me over the years that I'm overly analytical. At the risk of sterotyping or over-generalising, I see that as a bigger issue for me in Thailand - given the more prevalent "(don't) think too much" attitude....... where even thinking about next week seems sometimes to be viewed as strange if not pointless. Perhaps it's part of that "letting go" that is so alien to most of us westerners - given to making things happen and controlling/influencing events and outcomes.

All of this is easy to say and achieving any of it seems like the most demanding thing I will face living in LOS........... . Reading Dumpster's post really highlighted something that has been lurking at the back of my mind for quite a while.

BTW, as I was reading Ajarnmark's first post, I was immediately minded to post and say how great it is that a straight forum member was comparing situations in such a constructive way. Aside from the fact that most gay couples are not going to include children in their relationship, I see next to no difference between gay and straight Thai/farang couples and I'd like to see more comments like his (and LaoPo's) coming from our straight forum colleagues

[jdinasia]

hmm

Probably important for people to take a look at themselves and their histories here ......

If someone has a pattern of short-term (2-3 years or shorter) relationships that repeat in many of the same chracteristic ways then the common denominator in the relationships is the person in question.

I have many friends that fall into this category, I almost said trap but that isn't EXACTLY fair. Because some of those guys LIKE it .. they have a BF for a few years then move on ... usually keeping the BF in the family so to speak. The exes become part of a social circle that meets often and are supportive.

This behaviour only becomes problematic when their desires for consistancy in the same relationship is their goal.

Taking a look at one's real desires and history may tell you alot about your past ... then honesty (both with yourself and with your partner or potential partner) becomes paramount if one wants to grow!

[DUMPSTER]

BTW, as I was reading Ajarnmark's first post, I was immediately minded to post and say how great it is that a straight forum member was comparing situations in such a constructive way. Aside from the fact that most gay couples are not going to include children in their relationship, I see next to no difference between gay and straight Thai/farang couples and I'd like to see more comments like his (and LaoPo's) coming from our straight forum colleagues

I agree that I also see next to no difference between a gay or a straight relationship and it is good to hear the thoughts of straight members. I for one would never talk about a relationship with a straight guy. well maybe that's because I have no straight friends who would care to listen.

jdinasia wrote:

Taking a look at one's real desires and history may tell you alot about your past ... then honesty (both with yourself and with your partner or potential partner) becomes paramount if one wants to grow!

I go along with that. We often repeat situations and a pattern emerges. If we are open to look at ourselves we would then see where we are going wrong and hopefully make changes and grow.

My last 3 relationships have all lasted 2-3 years. I never really thought there was a connection before JD just reminded me that there must be one. What's the connection? Need to be a bit more introspective to find that out.

Edited May 4, 2006 by DUMPSTER

[LaoPo]

BTW, as I was reading Ajarnmark's first post, I was immediately minded to post and say how great it is that a straight forum member was comparing situations in such a constructive way. Aside from the fact that most gay couples are not going to include children in their relationship, I see next to no difference between gay and straight Thai/farang couples and I'd like to see more comments like his (and LaoPo's) coming from our straight forum colleagues

I agree that I also see next to no difference between a gay or a straight relationship and it is good to hear the thoughts of straight members. I for one would never talk about a relationship with a straight guy. well maybe that's because I have no straight friends who would care to listen.

jdinasia wrote:

Taking a look at one's real desires and history may tell you alot about your past ... then honesty (both with yourself and with your partner or potential partner) becomes paramount if one wants to grow!

I go along with that. We often repeat situations and a pattern emerges. If we are open to look at ourselves we would then see where we are going wrong and hopefully make changes and grow.

My last 3 relationships have all lasted 2-3 years. I never really thought there was a connection before JD just reminded me that there must be one. What's the connection? Need to be a bit more introspective to find that out.

With respect to jdinasia's comments, I would like to add that NO relationship, whether gay or straight, would last very long with the 7-day/week working schedule you're keeping up.

Sorry, but if you continue your life like this your present relationship is going to fail (another one which fails) and...

l'Histoire se repete or "History will repeat itself".

Like I mentioned before: "there's only 1 life: this one"...the 1 you have now!

You asked yourself: What's the connection?.......Well, maybe your'e up to a (another) new relationship; the unrest, the desire for sex, the doubts in your mind.....are these 'the connections'?

Who knows, but yourself?

LaoPo

[ProThaiExpat]

There are gay members of this forum who were married to women for a number of years and have raised children. Thus when these members contribute their insight, comparing gay and straight relationship problems, they speak from experience.

My gay relationships, longest so far is six years, have yet to approach the distance I travelled in a straight one, 10 years with a child who I am now visiting and enjoying the birth of my first grandchild. I find no difference between my gay and straight relationships. Sex is merely a matter of plumbing and making love should not be concerned with mechanics.

Thus when one approaches relationships as a joinder of two people with sex as a secondary element, you find that people are people, so no difference in their relationships even when you elevate sex as the denominator.

I firmly believe that when gay relationships attain all of the rights and privileges of straight relationships, gays will equal straights in the number of couples who raise children.

One only need to look at the black man's experience in the U.S., over the past fifty years, to see the negative impact on black families that discrimination engenders. The absent black father syndrome so common in black society seen in the U.S., at least in the past, is akin to the social behavior of gay men today toward forming families. My view is that it is a result of the discrimination faced by gay men in most societies.

Thus I see the prevalence of short time relationships in gay society as a product of discrimination, not any inherent biological drive which is the popular "take" on the issue. There are many animal societies where the male is the offspring raiser and thus with the appropriate societal influence, I can see gay men raising children at the same rate as heterosexuals, once society removes the elevation of heterosexual procreation from the high point on the scale of values it has placed it upon.

[DUMPSTER]

With respect to jdinasia's comments, I would like to add that NO relationship, whether gay or straight, would last very long with the 7-day/week working schedule you're keeping up.

Sorry, but if you continue your life like this your present relationship is going to fail (another one which fails) and...

l'Histoire se repete or "History will repeat itself".

Like I mentioned before: "there's only 1 life: this one"...the 1 you have now!

Yes I have to agree the work schedule is not good for a relationship. Actually most weeks we only spend around 8 hours of quality time together. That said, we knew time or lack of it together would be a problem but accepted this when we started the business. If we want some security for our future we need to work hard now. Obviously a balance would be better but we do know that there is a problem and that is half the problem solved. If the work seriously threatened our relationship then I would slow down. As long as we accept this situation is for now, then it has little or no power over us.

[Buki]

6 years we've been together, and the sex is now seldom. But we are still together, because sex wasn't the driving force of our relationship. But during the two years, we were humping like rabbits, but it just died down, or I just got less interested with it. We done a lot of things to spice up our sex life, but its just it. We get awfully jealous if there would be someone who would be sexually attracted to either of us. But in the end of the day, we end up cuddling with each other in bed and talk. It really works well, when both party is at a level where there is an understanding of each other. I trully enjoy sex with bf, but I am more in love with the time of sharing and discussing our lives to each other.

[DUMPSTER]

But in the end of the day, we end up cuddling with each other in bed and talk. It really works well, when both party is at a level where there is an understanding of each other. I trully enjoy sex with bf, but I am more in love with the time of sharing and discussing our lives to each other.

The cuddling before we sleep is the time I feel close to my b/f. The time I know I love him, the time I know it feels right to be with him.

[jdinasia]

I feel the same way abut the Puppy .... ... great reason for keeping a dog around ... not so sure about for keeping a guy around!

we have been regaled in some threads by guys that are just afraid to be alone .... don't you think really being honest about your needs and expectations (honest with yourself!) would lead to an answer here?

[jdinasia]

Now ..... to the question Asked directly ... (ie: the name of the thread!) Look to what made you happy as a couple during the early stages of the relationship ... and do them ....

[HarryHerb]

Yes I have to agree the work schedule is not good for a relationship. Actually most weeks we only spend around 8 hours of quality time together. That said, we knew time or lack of it together would be a problem but accepted this when we started the business. If we want some security for our future we need to work hard now. Obviously a balance would be better but we do know that there is a problem and that is half the problem solved. If the work seriously threatened our relationship then I would slow down. As long as we accept this situation is for now, then it has little or no power over us.

I'm no expert in relationships but the above sentence in bold really sets alarm bells ringing. Future goals are all very well, but what future will there even be if you're putting your relationship in jeopardy right now?

(Over) work is surely the biggest relationship killer of all (after cheating). When you don't have time for each other now, there seems little point in thinking about an idealised future when things will be better. They won't. I think someone mentioned about 'letting go' and this is very important - at least if you value your relationship over your business.

Take some time off! Cut back on your hours. It'll be hard at first (I know, I have done this myself), but I'm sure it can be done without serious detriment to your business. Just remind yourself what is more important to you. The balance is there - you just need to find it before it's too late.

My best wishes to you...

p.s. very interesting thread, thank you!

[DUMPSTER]

I feel the same way abut the Puppy .... ... great reason for keeping a dog around ... not so sure about for keeping a guy around!

we have been regaled in some threads by guys that are just afraid to be alone .... don't you think really being honest about your needs and expectations (honest with yourself!) would lead to an answer here?

To continue on from Dukkha's "farangs with healthy relationships" thread, I asked the question, how do you keep a relationship healthy? I wanted to know, what works for the guys in longterm relationships and maybe some of us might get an insight and see why our relationships fail or become unhealthy. Why, for instance do I seem to lose interest around the 2-3 year mark in my relationships. Is it really about boring sex or is there something else that i'm not seeing.

Now i'm not sure if your puppy is a subsitute for a b/f or what, but I see nothing wrong with feeling the love and warmth of someone in bed with me and reciprocating that love, especially after a busy day working. The reality of life for those who have to work is that you try to enjoy the moments together when you can and for me that happens to be the final hour of the day before I sleep. I feel equally comfortable on the odd occasion when I sleep alone.

Some have pointed out that my relationship is suffering because of our work load and that looking to the future is futile as I may not have one with my b/f. I try to live my life now, but I also feel I should look at the bigger picture, that is, where do I see myself going. Now I do realize that there are many possible outcomes to this but having a vision or some sort of idea is ok for me at this time. I see nothing wrong with working hard today so that i might be able to do something different tomorrow. I also realize that tomorrow might never come or my idea might not reach fruition.

What will be will be and I am happy to accept the outcome.

Over the last few days I have realized that you have to be on the same page or be walking the same path as your partner in order to sustain a healthy relationship. To do that you really need to be open with yourself and your partner and talk about your relationship otherwise you spend your time second guessing your partner and you are not always going to guess right.

I was really unwilling to be open and talk with him because I was afraid of what I might hear or what I might say. But it's only when you take that step that you can draw any sort of reasoning as to where your relationship is going. If you don’t take such action you just spend your time playing with future outcomes in your head. So you really need to know what your partner is thinking and feeling, and they you, to understand your own thoughts and feelings with regards to your relationship.

I think we can loose ourselves in our relationships if we don’t communicate and we end up on a path that just makes us drift apart.

jdinasia pointed out that I should look to what made me happy when I entered the relationship. But we are not the same people now as we were back when our relationship began. It is ok knowing what made you happy but does that mean it will make you happy now? I don’t think so. How can it? We are not the same people and our circumstances have changed so recreating the past isn’t a guarantee that happiness will follow. You need to know what can make you happy now and the only way to find that out is to talk with your partner so that you have a knowing and an understanding of each others needs from the relationship. And only then can you be honest with yourself and your partner and decide whether to continue with the relationship or end it. Unfortunately I think we take too many things for granted and assume too much in our relationships because we fail to talk to each other and that is when a healthy relationship is on a path to becoming unhealthy.

So for me, at this time, my feeling is that to keep a healthy relationship going you need to be honest with yourself and to your partner and talk about it without any fear of the outcome.

Any thoughts?

Edited May 7, 2006 by DUMPSTER

[PeaceBlondie]

Dumpster, you're doing some heavy thinking, analyzing, etc. Many Thais don't think that analytically, but they can talk about basic feelings, and by now you two surely know how to share your feelings. And some Thais are quite analytical, though they may not use the same logical thinking pattern as a Westerner.

My sister-in-law warned my (ex)wife and I that if we didn't spend enough time together, we'd split up. She was right. Of course, it's never that simple.

Good luck.

[DUMPSTER]

Dumpster, you're doing some heavy thinking, analyzing, etc. Many Thais don't think that analytically.

yes, you are right, but i'm dealing with the situation from a conditioned westerner's point of view. There are big differences between how I and my b/f look at our relationship. But that doesn't take away the fact that if you dont communicate, how can you expect learn and know what the others thinking is about the relationship? IMO you need to be open to listen and open to talk.

[jdinasia]

Pretty good thread Dumpster ....

Looking at what was fun and made you happy at the advent of a relationship and then stepping back to that is important ... it isn't how you live day to day now. But if you enjoyed movies on weekends before ... take the time to go to a movie.

It is about remembering who you are BEFORE you sunk into a rut.

You look into your history for clues about yourself ...

Don't worry about thinking too much about your partner's thoughts and feelings when looking at your own stuff ... find out who you really are at the core and then start working more to make that balance with a partner.

The thing I was getting at is that not all guys are built for lifelong relationships with a bonded partner .... so develope your relationships in a way that will work for you.

Guys dating men much younger than themselves end up with another problem ... while those of us 40+ are pretty much who we are becoming .... someone in his 20's has tons of growing to do!

[DUMPSTER]

Pretty good thread Dumpster ....

Looking at what was fun and made you happy at the advent of a relationship and then stepping back to that is important ... it isn't how you live day to day now. But if you enjoyed movies on weekends before ... take the time to go to a movie.

It is about remembering who you are BEFORE you sunk into a rut.

You look into your history for clues about yourself ...

yes I can see your point.

Don't worry about thinking too much about your partner's thoughts and feelings when looking at your own stuff ... find out who you really are at the core and then start working more to make that balance with a partner.

i agree that the B/f has to deal with his own stuff, not that there is much to deal with. A very balanced guy indeed who hasnt complicated his life too much. That was a major attraction towards him. Of course there are times when our issues cross and we have to deal with it together but basically most of the issues are mine and it is me who has to work on them.

The thing I was getting at is that not all guys are built for lifelong relationships with a bonded partner .... so develope your relationships in a way that will work for you.

Agreed

Guys dating men much younger than themselves end up with another problem ... while those of us 40+ are pretty much who we are becoming .... someone in his 20's has tons of growing to do!

Agreed, but will add there are a few 40 + guys who continue looking / searching for more than they already know. I for one have out grown my past b/f's. Ah, maybe there i've just answered my own question. Even though I was older than the last 2, it was me who was growing as a person. It was me who wanted to find answers about life and happiness.

Now, I believe I may have found someone who can walk a fair few miles on my path, if I can look beyond sex and desires. I know the suffering they cause. but its easier said than done.