Danger of Visa Runs

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Recent country by country comparison of road deaths from Pulitzer organization.

Thailand comes in at 38.1 and its hard to find any countries with higher rates.

http://roadskillmap.com/#17.895114303749143,26.806640624999996,1

Edited November 8, 2013 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[chrisinth]

To the OP..............

So as not to generalize, this is my experience. Through work, it is necessary for me to make numerous trips from Phitsanulok to Ban Chang (Rayong) each year. My preferred method of travel is: wife drives to the airport, fly Phits to Don Muang, taxi to Mor Chit and minibus to Ban Chang. Length of an average trip, with the right connections, would be flying from Phits @ 07:40 and arriving Ban Chang at about 11:15 - 11:45 at the hotel. 4 hours.

I could also take a taxi but prefer not to as my return trips are always flexible and getting a taxi at short notice in Ban Chang is a bit of a feat.

These trips have been consistent for the last 8 years, averaging about 15 trips a year. Never have I been in an accident or near miss in the minibus. Never has the minibus broken down.

This of course, is not saying that it doesn't happen, there are numerous accidents involving minibuses for a variety of reasons every day. The advice would be to pick a reliable company before making any trip to reduce the risk of accidents.

NB: That has probably put the kiss of death on my future journeys. Sh1t !!!

[3SoiDogNight]

It is dangerous, don't let the idiot poster fool you. I was on one where our driver attempted to pass a car in torrential rain on a blind curve, and when confronted by an oncoming car could not get back in the lane, so we flew over a ditch between 2 trees and ended up in the middle of a farmer's field. We were travelling at well over 100 kh and visibility was almost zero. I know sometimes you need to travel in the minivans but if you are smart, you will try to limit the number of times you put yourself at risk. When I travel on a bus in the USA I sleep like a baby. In Thailand on a minibus, I feel like screaming like a baby.

A bit off topic but I have to ask.

How on earth are you able to sleep like a baby on Greyhound? Have you seen the characters that ride them?

I much prefer Amtrak for ground transport if I'm not driving myself.

Try to avoid these minivans as much as possible, They are not safe! The driver's are insane!

If they aren't driving like a maniac, they're talking LOUD on their mobile phone. Same with the lo-so passengers that ride them.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Of course other stuff crashes in farangland or anywhere, BUT the big difference is the guys in control of whatever machine are highly trained to do the job as they have passengers lives in their hands ...yes/no ?

From the regularity of van crashes in LOS that is clearly not the case.

Crashes happen everwhere in the world and for the OP, CHILL OUT,THE CHANCES OF DYING ON A VISA RUN IS MINISCULE

Hardly a day goes by when the news here is not littered with yet another terrible van crash involving multiple fatalities...admittedly, not all or even most involving visa runs, of course.

But given the way vans in general are driven in Thailand, I would no longer take one under any circumstances. These crashes usually aren't "accidents." They're usually caused by careless or drugged up drivers going too fast for the road conditions that exist or falling asleep at the wheel.

Interprovince tour buses are getting to be equally bad... But at least in my experience, the visa run buses run by reputable companies don't seem to be as crazed as the vans.

Edited November 8, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[masuk]

Of course other stuff crashes in farangland or anywhere, BUT the big difference is the guys in control of whatever machine are highly trained to do the job as they have passengers lives in their hands ...yes/no ?

From the regularity of van crashes in LOS that is clearly not the case.

Crashes happen everwhere in the world and for the OP, CHILL OUT,THE CHANCES OF DYING ON A VISA RUN IS MINISCULE

Thailand is listed as the 2nd most dangerous place in the world to drive. Was top of the list, but Columbia (I think) now has that honour.

More than 500 fatalities per WEEK in Thailand!

[dao16]

In my experience, yes, the visa-run services do tend to hire much more aggressive drivers--they have to get you there at a certain time, and then they are off work when they get you back. This second half of the trip gives them an incentive to get there as fast as possible.

That said, I think you are pretty much risking your life every time you get on the road here, whether you are driving or someone else is.

[thaiexpat21]

In my experience, yes, the visa-run services do tend to hire much more aggressive drivers--they have to get you there at a certain time, and then they are off work when they get you back. This second half of the trip gives them an incentive to get there as fast as possible.

That said, I think you are pretty much risking your life every time you get on the road here, whether you are driving or someone else is.

Visa runs to Penang and Ranong leave Phuket almost every day. Only rarely does one hear of these vans being involved in accidents.

Most road deaths in Thailand are associated with speed, alcohol , motorbikes(scooters) and a failure to wear helmets.

[Frank James]

Book the flight to KL. Arrive on Monday. Arrive Thai Embassy on Tues AM. (Try not to get killed crossing the extremely busy road out front.)Wednesday: Pick up visa (if they give you one) Fly out Thurs. Some Air Asia flights, such as the one to Chiang Mai, leave very early AM.

Chok dee.

PS: Apply bug spray before arriving courtyard (holding area) at Embassy. Lots of mosquitoes, and they love farang blood.

[Thormaturge]

I have happy memories of the overnight train to Nong-Khai in my early days here. Not sure I would want to use the trains now though.

[Rorri]

Just read about a bad car crash in England,none of my mates have phoned me to say they dont want to drive on motorways again.

A train crashed in France a while ago,are the trains empty now.How many planes have crashed in the last 20 years,will you ever fly again ????

I dont see how you can compare the roads in england and thailand. Like comparing chalk and cheese. The train in france crashed because the idiot driver was going to the speed he should of. How many times does that happen in the europe. You can increase you chances of not being in a plane crash by flying with decent airlines.

People seem to forget, it is still safer to fly, there is more of a chance of being killed on the roads.

[techboy]

Minivans are uncomfortable anyway. Just jump on a Green Bus VIP. They are comfortable and they give you a bottle of water, soft drink and a snack. I have been using them for years. Other decent bus lines are available if the Green Bus does not take you where you want to go although the Green's coverage is good.

I would not pay much attention to the porridge puking losers who make references to Thailand not being a civilized country. They consider anything that that is not in sync with their geriatric comfort and routines to be uncivilized.

[transam]

Minivans are uncomfortable anyway. Just jump on a Green Bus VIP. They are comfortable and they give you a bottle of water, soft drink and a snack. I have been using them for years. Other decent bus lines are available if the Green Bus does not take you where you want to go although the Green's coverage is good.

I would not pay much attention to the porridge puking losers who make references to Thailand not being a civilized country. They consider anything that that is not in sync with their geriatric comfort and routines to be uncivilized.

Your word ''civilized'' is totally out of context. In fact a daft word to use. Us porridge puking losers would prefer something like having ''lack of of control'' or ''lack of enforcing safety rules''

PS. I don't like folk like you posting garbage aimed at members. If your somehow special then use it in respectful comment.

[robertson468]

I've been around Thailand for quite a long time and in my opinion, the mini bus drivers (as a group) are the worst drivers that I have ever seen anywhere in the world.

Closely followed by the drivers of big buses. I would rather roast my testicles on an open fire than get in a bus, of any description here.

The third worst group are Honda City drivers...... any nationality!!!!

Can we come and watch the BBQ please?

[movsrus]

I have made several visa runs from Chiang Mai to Mae Sot and each time I regarded myself as lucky I made the trip intact. Many of the van drivers are frustrated F1 racers and seem to take extreme thrill in making passes on blind corners and overtaking others when there is the slightest opening in oncoming traffic. A visa run costs me 600 baht plus the 500 to cross the border and get the stamp in Myanmar. I can pay 1900 baht and get a 30 day extension at the Chaing Mai Immigration office. I use the bus now if I have to make an exit from Thailand to get my multi-entry visa validated in Myanmar. It amazes me that more people are not killed on the road when they take the vans for visa runs.

[ozyjon]

The great advantage of these vans are the door to door service and they are cheap, but do we really need to use that service when a regular bus will go anywhere in Thailand and then just cross the border OR the Air Asia flights ar so cheap, why not go somewhere for a SAFE holiday instead of putting your life in danger.

[3SoiDogNight]

Of course other stuff crashes in farangland or anywhere, BUT the big difference is the guys in control of whatever machine are highly trained to do the job as they have passengers lives in their hands ...yes/no ?

From the regularity of van crashes in LOS that is clearly not the case.

Crashes happen everwhere in the world and for the OP, CHILL OUT,THE CHANCES OF DYING ON A VISA RUN IS MINISCULE

Thailand is listed as the 2nd most dangerous place in the world to drive. Was top of the list, but Columbia (I think) now has that honour.

More than 500 fatalities per WEEK in Thailand!

I blame the high car tax which is criminal. People can't afford cars so they use cheap motorbikes. They are unsafe and I see many families piled on to these things. They would be much safer in a car and higher chance of surviving an accident.

[Ace of Pop]

Of course other stuff crashes in farangland or anywhere, BUT the big difference is the guys in control of whatever machine are highly trained to do the job as they have passengers lives in their hands ...yes/no ?

From the regularity of van crashes in LOS that is clearly not the case.

Crashes happen everwhere in the world and for the OP, CHILL OUT,THE CHANCES OF DYING ON A VISA RUN IS MINISCULE

Thailand is listed as the 2nd most dangerous place in the world to drive. Was top of the list, but Columbia (I think) now has that honour.

More than 500 fatalities per WEEK in Thailand!

I blame the high car tax which is criminal. People can't afford cars so they use cheap motorbikes. They are unsafe and I see many families piled on to these things. They would be much safer in a car and higher chance of surviving an accident.

Many you see piled on Scooters do have 4Wheel Transport, but in my area they are too lazy , and just pile onto a Mocycle , and zoom to Market or Wat .

[techboy]

Minivans are uncomfortable anyway. Just jump on a Green Bus VIP. They are comfortable and they give you a bottle of water, soft drink and a snack. I have been using them for years. Other decent bus lines are available if the Green Bus does not take you where you want to go although the Green's coverage is good.

I would not pay much attention to the porridge puking losers who make references to Thailand not being a civilized country. They consider anything that that is not in sync with their geriatric comfort and routines to be uncivilized.

Your word ''civilized'' is totally out of context. In fact a daft word to use. Us porridge puking losers would prefer something like having ''lack of of control'' or ''lack of enforcing safety rules''

PS. I don't like folk like you posting garbage aimed at members. If your somehow special then use it in respectful comment.

The use of the word "civilized" out of context here? Daft? Not respectful? I agree!!! It was not my word choice. If you check other posts under this topic you will find that I was not the one who opened the door on the word. I was contending its usage. As to the rest??? During your response you seem to have lost track of who was saying what!!!

[transam]

Minivans are uncomfortable anyway. Just jump on a Green Bus VIP. They are comfortable and they give you a bottle of water, soft drink and a snack. I have been using them for years. Other decent bus lines are available if the Green Bus does not take you where you want to go although the Green's coverage is good.

I would not pay much attention to the porridge puking losers who make references to Thailand not being a civilized country. They consider anything that that is not in sync with their geriatric comfort and routines to be uncivilized.

Your word ''civilized'' is totally out of context. In fact a daft word to use. Us porridge puking losers would prefer something like having ''lack of of control'' or ''lack of enforcing safety rules''

PS. I don't like folk like you posting garbage aimed at members. If your somehow special then use it in respectful comment.

The use of the word "civilized" out of context here? Daft? Not respectful? I agree!!! It was not my word choice. If you check other posts under this topic you will find that I was not the one who opened the door on the word. I was contending its usage. As to the rest??? During your response you seem to have lost track of who was saying what!!!

You can think what you like, as I will.

[Benmart]

Just read about a bad car crash in England,none of my mates have phoned me to say they dont want to drive on motorways again.

A train crashed in France a while ago,are the trains empty now.How many planes have crashed in the last 20 years,will you ever fly again ????

The problem here is us long timers know how the majority of these van drivers drive, AND the weekly carnage using them. Big difference to stuff in farangland. I personally would never set foot in one, to many visual experiences.

All plane crashes are not all in farangland??/

Is 10 years of 90 day visa runs, old timing????

never had a bad experience,not to say a driver will never crash,due to a mistake,bad weather,other party bad driving,but one cant tar with the same brush.

Think you miss the point, but thats OK, you carry on.

You post leaves me wondering why you think he missed the point since you didn't provide more supportive information. If you did, perhaps he would understand and alter his views.

We all want to express our platform, but all too often the train has already departed.

[transam]

Anyone that reads these pages, and the news in LOS over a long period knows the major risk using vans, and I am not just talking about farang lives. It is virtually a weekly event to pull one of these vans out of the weeds. For anyone to come on here and say that vans are OK to travel in, they are daft, perhaps the same folk who ride bikes with no crash hat. the ''It won't happen to me'' brigade.

[lopburi3]

Unsafe is relative. Motorcycles would obviously be at the head of any such list but people use them. As for vans I have been here as long as most and still ride and hire them specifically for trips. You can always find reasons not to ride something but the fact is most people will not have issues with motorcycles/samlors/Subarus/vans/bus/truck/train/plane or even walking. But a few will and there will always be unsafe actions taken by a few drivers. My greatest negative with public vans used for visa type transport has always been the odor that some of us emit. Am sure some drivers may be in a hurry to get there and out of vehicle.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Lopburi, I had the same view as you regarding van transport, when I first came here.

But over the years, the sheer volume of the van crashes/fatalities that I've read about here on ThaiVisa, and the seeming increasing frequency of such crashes, has caused me to swear them off.

The government's unwillingness to enforce any reasonable safety standards in this section of the public transport services here is a nail in the coffin for me, along with the generally bad/poor level of road safety and driving here in general.

I've ridden on vans a lot in past years, and never been on one that I felt was driving really bad. But I have a wife with whom I hope to to spend a long and happy life together.

So when I put everything together, vans are just too much of a risk and one that I can for the most part choose to avoid. BTW, I absolutely won't ride motorcycles here either for all of the same reasons.

Edited November 10, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lopburi3]

The government has set lower speed limits on such vans so they have done something - but the number has greatly increased in recent years because they provide a value service. But that will mean more cowboys are likely as good drivers are all employed. About the only non charter use I have had was the Hat Yai to Penang run a decade ago (where the smell changed me to using hired taxi service). But to suggest it is death as some on here seem to preach is just nonsense. It may not be in our safety zone but it is not certain death either.

[thaiexpat21]

Without knowing the total number of van journeys undertaken each day/week/month/year it is impossible to know the % which are involved in accidents.

Speculation is unhelpful.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't think visa run van trips are per se more dangerous than public transit vans in general here. They might even be a bit safer, overall.

My comments were really directed at the broader public van transport services offered to the public here. Hardly a day goes by here where we don't read about one of those vans getting into a major crash and/or passengers getting seriously injured or killed.

Too many of the van drivers are "cowboys" who place a higher priority of speed and money vs. getting their passengers safely to their destination. And that's not even getting into the whole issue of unlicensed, illegal vans that operate public transit services even though they're not supposed to be doing so.

[transam]

The government has set lower speed limits on such vans so they have done something - but the number has greatly increased in recent years because they provide a value service. But that will mean more cowboys are likely as good drivers are all employed. About the only non charter use I have had was the Hat Yai to Penang run a decade ago (where the smell changed me to using hired taxi service). But to suggest it is death as some on here seem to preach is just nonsense. It may not be in our safety zone but it is not certain death either.

Nobody said it was certain death did they ? What has been said is the RISK factor is too great and should be avoided. yes/no

[A1Str8]

Planes are definitely safer than vans so book a flight if you want. But I say, take a f.... chance once in a while. Pay the ticket, get in that van and see where it takes you. I do the same..so far no problems. I mean go for it, man. You never know. You might arrive without any trouble. As ladyboys say: you dont try, you dont know.

[thaiexpat21]

The government has set lower speed limits on such vans so they have done something - but the number has greatly increased in recent years because they provide a value service. But that will mean more cowboys are likely as good drivers are all employed. About the only non charter use I have had was the Hat Yai to Penang run a decade ago (where the smell changed me to using hired taxi service). But to suggest it is death as some on here seem to preach is just nonsense. It may not be in our safety zone but it is not certain death either.

Nobody said it was certain death did they ? What has been said is the RISK factor is too great and should be avoided. yes/no

Calculating a risk requires knowledge of the total number of van journeys and the total number of vans which "crash".

Claiming a "risk " is too great without knowledge of what the "risk" actually is amounts to scaremongering speculation.

Edited November 10, 2013 by thaiexpat21

[transam]

The government has set lower speed limits on such vans so they have done something - but the number has greatly increased in recent years because they provide a value service. But that will mean more cowboys are likely as good drivers are all employed. About the only non charter use I have had was the Hat Yai to Penang run a decade ago (where the smell changed me to using hired taxi service). But to suggest it is death as some on here seem to preach is just nonsense. It may not be in our safety zone but it is not certain death either.

Nobody said it was certain death did they ? What has been said is the RISK factor is too great and should be avoided. yes/no

Calculating a risk requires knowledge of the total number of van journeys and the total number of vans which "crash".

Claiming a "risk " is too great without knowledge of what the "risk" actually is amounts to scaremongering speculation.

I went up country a few days ago and one of these vans was glued to my bumper, I was doing about 100kph, road to narrow to overtake, that situation WAS a risk to me AND his passengers yes/no.

Noooooooooooooooo crash but the risk WAS there. yes/no.

Or is OK in your opinion cos there was no crash there was no risk.yes/no ?