Thai opinion: Foreigners observe developments here with great interest

[webfact]

Foreigners observe developments here with great interest
Achara Deboonme
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- A group of foreigners, some of them living in Thailand, gathered at a Bangkok hotel last week to listen to three economists' very bearish views on the global economy.

Before the event began, I had a long chat with a Hong Kong man who works in the mutual-fund industry. After sitting down next to me, he said he was a frequent visitor to Thailand - for both leisure and business.

After exchanging pleasantries, he asked, "What's happened in Thailand?"

I took a sip of wine, pondering an answer that wouldn't reflect badly on the country's image. First, I told him the protests against the controversial amnesty bill seemed justified, as the government took advantage of its majority in the House to pass a very tricky bill, apparently in favour of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

"But politicians are leading the protests, right? Haven't they thought about possible violence?" he asked. A man sitting next to him was all ears for the answer.

This reminded me of something I had heard on the streets. At first, when someone announced plans to join the protest at Democracy Monument, others would tell them to be careful and stay safe. But after a few days, "enjoy yourself" was the advice to wannabe protesters.

I explained this to the Hong Kong man by saying the Yingluck government apparently did not dare to use violence against demonstrators. My conviction was based on emotionally painful experience. Moreover, in the past two years the government and its supporters have constantly attacked the Democrat Party and its previous administration - key members of which are involved in the current protests - for using violence during the 2010 demonstrations which left 99 dead and more than 2,000 injured. If there are any fatalities this time round, the Yingluck government could no longer claim legitimacy for any further attacks on its arch-rival.

"All this because of Thaksin?" was my neighbour's next question. "Why? Compared to other corrupt leaders in the region, like those in the Philippines or Indonesia, he doesn't seem that bad to me."

Another tough question! To me, Thaksin is certainly better than the Philippine's Ferdinand Marcos or Indonesia's Suharto.

Yet, while in power, Thaksin won as much disfavour as he did favour. It has to be admitted that the constitutional changes he made to give more power to local administrations have not yet benefited villagers. We must also admit that while national resources were used to boost the nation's prosperity, the benefits are being enjoyed by the elites and the middle-class.

The former CEO was too happy unveiling new strategies to notice that some flouted norms of governance while others opened loopholes for corruption. And now, in exile, he doesn't know how to stay silent. Meddling with Thai politics from overseas further erodes public trust in his sister and the current government.

But the fight against bad governance has changed course, with the protesters opening a new chapter. After making the administration realise that its House majority does not mean it can overlook the minority's opinions, some protest leaders want to topple the government. Now, these men are ignoring the majority voice. The so-called Group of 40 senators may be glad that they could hurt the government, but their actions last week badly tarnished the reputation of our lawmakers as a whole. This, along with supporters of the government joining the battle, indicate that Thailand is in for a prolonged political tug-of-war.

Obviously, dissolution of the House will not bring Thailand back to a pre-Thaksin era, given fundamental changes at home and overseas. Facebook is now a new powerful tool for Thai protesters. Rumours can spread like wildfire, shared across networks without a second spent thinking about their logic. Right now, every "whistle blower" is a fighter for justice, with no attempt to find out the truth behind this assumption.

I came up with a Facebook post. It's about a game called "Merciless".

"A man takes off his pants to sexually molest a girl. But he's spotted by villagers, who attack him. He runs to the police and apologises. Just as the police are about to submit his case to the prosecutors, a group of officers try to stall the case - resulting in more days in prison for the man. One night, the prison door is opened and the prisoner attacked. Loyal friends of the prisoner can no longer endure this abuse and they plot their revenge."

A harmless tale, but there's a tinge of sadness at such cruelty in this Buddhist society.

I sighed when the Hong Kong man said he felt sorry for Thais, "who don't know how lucky they are to have so many good things, like food and wonderful beaches".

Well, I am one among them and we are all compatriots. I feel as sorry for them as I do for myself.


-- The Nation 2013-11-13

[Emptyset]

A very fair and balanced article I think, at least as far as The Nation goes. Not sure I understand the relevance of that analogy though. Anyway, she's right. However much people want it, Thailand can't return to the pre-Thaksin days. I think even the Democrats realized that when they adopted a similarly populist platform in an attempt to sway rural voters. Question is, what's the endgame for them here? Do they just want the government to call an election whilst at their weakest and hope it results in a reduced majority? Or do they want something more than that? What about the demands that the entire Shinawatra family leave Thailand? Obviously there are some among the protesters - hopefully a minority, but I can't be sure of that - who would advocate giving up on democracy entirely, at least until Thaksin is long gone and forgotten. Presumably the Democrats wouldn't go as far as that, I mean, they are still actually an elected parliamentary party, not just a street pressure group. It'll be interesting to see how far the 'united front' of anti-govt protesters travels together until the ideological divergence is too great and it fractures into bickering and recrimination. Obviously this happened with PAD and the Democrats post-2008, but Thaksin's managed to unite everyone again with the dumb amnesty move.

[NongKhaiKid]

What a problem for Thailand, the government, TAT et al as nothing ever goes wrong in the country and if ever, heaven forbid, it did then LOS becomes the hub of international interest so do they keep in denial or seek big face from all the attention.

I know, let's set up several committes with big budgets, all working at cross purposes, to come up with a solution and in 90 days will do nicely.

[Publicus]

Interesting OP.

I wonder if the OP reflects a new reality in Thailand that the view foreigners have of Thailand are of some importance, or of some significance, impact.

It had always been clear to us that Thais don't give a rat's arse what foreigners here or abroad think or believe about their Paradise, the place that for some time now has in reality been the former LOS.

However, Thailand has for the past seven years been getting a steady drumbeat of exclusively negative press/media throughout the world, beginning with the coup of 2006.

And the global press/media have simply been showing the reality of Thailand on the ground, to include the 2010 burning of the CBD by the Reds, and of the army shooting Thais and foreign journalists - and so much more of a dangerous and violent place.

Or does the OP only care about the foreigner he got caught up having to talk with because the foreigner isn't a fahlang foreigner (from Hong Kong)?

I know Thais studying abroad in any one of the English speaking fahlang lands always get it put to them that Thailand is a violent place, a statement the Thais abroad find disconcerting in the extreme but which is accurate to the foreigners who for a long time now have repeatedly seen violence and more violence coming out of Thailand.

The only counterweight to the news are the TAT promos that present Thailand as having the beaches and the Phuket-type spots the foreigner presented by the OP refers to. The TAT promos however are alongside the violence foreigners see on the news, so they don't and can't negate the violence or street chaos of the Thailand of late.

Maybe Thais have begun to care what foreigners think and believe.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Publicus

[smileydude]

In this age of globalization I think it would be foolish not to care about international opinions and think you are a one man island. This arrogance is often seen in the foreign policy of many powerful countries and Thailand despite its minor significance on the global stage is of no exception especially when it concerns our SE asian neighbors.

Listening is always a virtue. The best reasoning is always void of ego.

Edited November 13, 2013 by smileydude

[froglink]

Perhaps the difference is that Thai society is not inherently split and violent; it is not built upon the idea that conflict is normal, and that each of us has to fight for our rights. Of course, there have been wars and invasions in Thailand. But I doubt if conflict is hardwired into the Thai psyche as it is in the West. Perhaps this is why some Westerners find it so attractive, while others find it hard to accept the Thais' tolerance of what they think is intolerable.

This does not mean that interests don't conflict in Thailand - they clearly do. The lack of a cultural fighting mentality might also explain the sudden and apparently inexplicable outpourings of violence here. In most Western countries, the sense of conflict has been channeled into institutional norms, even in France. Naturally enough, those norms are stretching as the pressures mount.

At the moment, I sense that Europe is closer to a breakdown than Thailand. But who knows?

[ggold]

Perhaps the difference is that Thai society is not inherently split and violent; it is not built upon the idea that conflict is normal, and that each of us has to fight for our rights. Of course, there have been wars and invasions in Thailand. But I doubt if conflict is hardwired into the Thai psyche as it is in the West. Perhaps this is why some Westerners find it so attractive, while others find it hard to accept the Thais' tolerance of what they think is intolerable.

This does not mean that interests don't conflict in Thailand - they clearly do. The lack of a cultural fighting mentality might also explain the sudden and apparently inexplicable outpourings of violence here. In most Western countries, the sense of conflict has been channeled into institutional norms, even in France. Naturally enough, those norms are stretching as the pressures mount.

At the moment, I sense that Europe is closer to a breakdown than Thailand. But who knows?

The lack of a cultural fighting mentality might also explain the sudden and apparently inexplicable outpourings of violence here.

So you think Thais aren't prone to being violent, Well sadly a great number are and when the occasion demands have no problem showing just how violent they can be!

Europe's problems are financial Thailand's is political so I don't see how you can compare them that way?

Edited November 13, 2013 by ggold

[Time Traveller]

" First, I told him the protests against the controversial amnesty bill seemed justified, as the government took advantage of its majority in the House to pass a very tricky bill" ---

Oh that's right a majority is only important in real democracies. Remarkable that a journalist actually said that and admits to it in her column!

[Spare]

Farang should keep off Thai politics.

How do you feel if I start going about a color guy as president? Or Clinton affair with Lew.... etc.

[JoeThePoster]

After exchanging pleasantries, he asked, "What's happened in Thailand?"

I took a sip of wine.....

Flicked some dust of my Louis Vuitton handbag, put my iPhone on vibrate and made like an intellectual.

[Time Traveller]

Farang should keep off Thai politics.

How do you feel if I start going about a color guy as president? Or Clinton affair with Lew.... etc.

I would feel nothing. Why would anyone care that someone else has their own opinion?

Is Farang really "on" Thai politics?

Edited November 13, 2013 by Time Traveller

[sweatalot]

Interesting OP.

I wonder if the OP reflects a new reality in Thailand that the view foreigners have of Thailand are of some importance, or of some significance, impact.

It had always been clear to us that Thais don't give a rat's arse what foreigners here or abroad think or believe about their Paradise, the place that for some time now has in reality been the former LOS.

However, Thailand has for the past seven years been getting a steady drumbeat of exclusively negative press/media throughout the world, beginning with the coup of 2006.

And the global press/media have simply been showing the reality of Thailand on the ground, to include the 2010 burning of the CBD by the Reds, and of the army shooting Thais and foreign journalists - and so much more of a dangerous and violent place.

Or does the OP only care about the foreigner he got caught up having to talk with because the foreigner isn't a fahlang foreigner (from Hong Kong)?

I know Thais studying abroad in any one of the English speaking fahlang lands always get it put to them that Thailand is a violent place, a statement the Thais abroad find disconcerting in the extreme but which is accurate to the foreigners who for a long time now have repeatedly seen violence and more violence coming out of Thailand.

The only counterweight to the news are the TAT promos that present Thailand as having the beaches and the Phuket-type spots the foreigner presented by the OP refers to. The TAT promos however are alongside the violence foreigners see on the news, so they don't and can't negate the violence or street chaos of the Thailand of late.

Maybe Thais have begun to care what foreigners think and believe.

I wonder about this sentence: "the army shooting Thais and foreign journalists ." Did this not happen because the reds and their boss where supported by police who refused their duty of finishing the illegal occupation of puplic area by the reds at an early time as it was ordered by the gobernment? So the government had no choice. Am I correctly infomed? If not, please help me

[DocN]

Yes we do!

The same way we "observe" a horrible and bloody car-crash "with great interest"!

[spermwhale]

Farang should keep off Thai politics.

How do you feel if I start going about a color guy as president? Or Clinton affair with Lew.... etc.

What? We can't talk about it? Racist

[ozyjon]

In my village there seems to be less people now,, i wonder if they have gone to Bangkok,, my neighbor said if they pay me i will go, i asked how much, she said about 200 or 300 Baht.. (maybe i should go for that money)

[noksidam]

Maybe we should stop to read the Nation to know what's really going on...

[jpeg]

I took a sip of wine, pondering an answer that wouldn't reflect badly on the country's image.

Would have thought she'd have needed the time to drink the entire bottle for that

[Artisi]

Maybe we should stop to read the Nation to know what's really going on...

Agreed,

I never waste my time reading it, always the same - Thaksin this, Thaksin that, Thaksin farted this morning and Oh! wasn't that great, lets run a couple of editorials and some so called in-depth articles on that - everyone will be so happy to hear the great news.

[Thai at Heart]

Interesting OP.

I wonder if the OP reflects a new reality in Thailand that the view foreigners have of Thailand are of some importance, or of some significance, impact.

It had always been clear to us that Thais don't give a rat's arse what foreigners here or abroad think or believe about their Paradise, the place that for some time now has in reality been the former LOS.

However, Thailand has for the past seven years been getting a steady drumbeat of exclusively negative press/media throughout the world, beginning with the coup of 2006.

And the global press/media have simply been showing the reality of Thailand on the ground, to include the 2010 burning of the CBD by the Reds, and of the army shooting Thais and foreign journalists - and so much more of a dangerous and violent place.

Or does the OP only care about the foreigner he got caught up having to talk with because the foreigner isn't a fahlang foreigner (from Hong Kong)?

I know Thais studying abroad in any one of the English speaking fahlang lands always get it put to them that Thailand is a violent place, a statement the Thais abroad find disconcerting in the extreme but which is accurate to the foreigners who for a long time now have repeatedly seen violence and more violence coming out of Thailand.

The only counterweight to the news are the TAT promos that present Thailand as having the beaches and the Phuket-type spots the foreigner presented by the OP refers to. The TAT promos however are alongside the violence foreigners see on the news, so they don't and can't negate the violence or street chaos of the Thailand of late.

Maybe Thais have begun to care what foreigners think and believe.

Many Thais think that in some way their behaviour is in some way acceptable or in line with the international norm.

What they don't realise is that they are actually a laughing stock on many levels with many foreigners seeing the place as a joke and little more than a necessary evil in terms of business.

[Thai at Heart]

Farang should keep off Thai politics.

How do you feel if I start going about a color guy as president? Or Clinton affair with Lew.... etc.

Feel free.

I think the issue is that you don't want to talk about your politics rather than I don't want to talk about mine.

[casindonet]

It's a bit like watching thai soaps.....

Sent from my GT-I9200 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Publicus]

Interesting OP.

I wonder if the OP reflects a new reality in Thailand that the view foreigners have of Thailand are of some importance, or of some significance, impact.

It had always been clear to us that Thais don't give a rat's arse what foreigners here or abroad think or believe about their Paradise, the place that for some time now has in reality been the former LOS.

However, Thailand has for the past seven years been getting a steady drumbeat of exclusively negative press/media throughout the world, beginning with the coup of 2006.

And the global press/media have simply been showing the reality of Thailand on the ground, to include the 2010 burning of the CBD by the Reds, and of the army shooting Thais and foreign journalists - and so much more of a dangerous and violent place.

Or does the OP only care about the foreigner he got caught up having to talk with because the foreigner isn't a fahlang foreigner (from Hong Kong)?

I know Thais studying abroad in any one of the English speaking fahlang lands always get it put to them that Thailand is a violent place, a statement the Thais abroad find disconcerting in the extreme but which is accurate to the foreigners who for a long time now have repeatedly seen violence and more violence coming out of Thailand.

The only counterweight to the news are the TAT promos that present Thailand as having the beaches and the Phuket-type spots the foreigner presented by the OP refers to. The TAT promos however are alongside the violence foreigners see on the news, so they don't and can't negate the violence or street chaos of the Thailand of late.

Maybe Thais have begun to care what foreigners think and believe.

I wonder about this sentence: "the army shooting Thais and foreign journalists ." Did this not happen because the reds and their boss where supported by police who refused their duty of finishing the illegal occupation of puplic area by the reds at an early time as it was ordered by the gobernment? So the government had no choice. Am I correctly infomed? If not, please help me

Getting into the reasons the army was used instead of the police was not central, or even peripheral to my post so I didn't get into it.

Nor will I now or at this thread.

This stuff has been hashed over around here for a long time, endlessly.

(I anyway haven't any argument with the substance of the question you pose.)

So that's it for that.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Publicus

[GeorgeO]

Interesting OP.

I wonder if the OP reflects a new reality in Thailand that the view foreigners have of Thailand are of some importance, or of some significance, impact.

It had always been clear to us that Thais don't give a rat's arse what foreigners here or abroad think or believe about their Paradise, the place that for some time now has in reality been the former LOS.

However, Thailand has for the past seven years been getting a steady drumbeat of exclusively negative press/media throughout the world, beginning with the coup of 2006.

And the global press/media have simply been showing the reality of Thailand on the ground, to include the 2010 burning of the CBD by the Reds, and of the army shooting Thais and foreign journalists - and so much more of a dangerous and violent place.

Or does the OP only care about the foreigner he got caught up having to talk with because the foreigner isn't a fahlang foreigner (from Hong Kong)?

I know Thais studying abroad in any one of the English speaking fahlang lands always get it put to them that Thailand is a violent place, a statement the Thais abroad find disconcerting in the extreme but which is accurate to the foreigners who for a long time now have repeatedly seen violence and more violence coming out of Thailand.

The only counterweight to the news are the TAT promos that present Thailand as having the beaches and the Phuket-type spots the foreigner presented by the OP refers to. The TAT promos however are alongside the violence foreigners see on the news, so they don't and can't negate the violence or street chaos of the Thailand of late.

Maybe Thais have begun to care what foreigners think and believe.

I must object to your throw-away line of "the Army shooting Thais and foreign journalists". If you wish to be taken seriously, then you must remain impartial, so I would expect you also to make reference to the shooting, bombing and maiming of innocent onlookers by the red and black shirt mob...!!

[JeffreyWitty]

To me, this whole "story" sounds fabricated.

Maybe I am just a little jaded, thinking that foreigners generally could care less about Thailand.

Maybe I read too much TV?

[15Peter20]

I think the general arc of events in Thai politics over the past 20 years has generally been towards development and maturation.

What is particularly interesting is that in recent years we've had both red shirts (with their pressure on a military-backed post-coup government) and now the yellows/dems (preventing the blanket amnesty) guiding the trajectory of political development in Thailand towards what we would call a more developed democracy regulated by the rule of law.

Political activism backed by popular demand is increasingly pulling the strings which previously were the private domain of a very few at the top of Thai society.

[Jim walker]

At the end of the day it’s all political problems in Thailand and they all come down to power hungry politician’s hunger for power and more wonderful money money corruption and greed the big downfall in Thailand, the sheep will all follow.

[h90]

No most foreigner don't care.

Even middle class European mix Thailand and Taiwan.

The usual Foreigner in America or Europe is as interested in Thailand as Thais are interested in Croatia politics.

[Publicus]

Interesting OP.

I wonder if the OP reflects a new reality in Thailand that the view foreigners have of Thailand are of some importance, or of some significance, impact.

It had always been clear to us that Thais don't give a rat's arse what foreigners here or abroad think or believe about their Paradise, the place that for some time now has in reality been the former LOS.

However, Thailand has for the past seven years been getting a steady drumbeat of exclusively negative press/media throughout the world, beginning with the coup of 2006.

And the global press/media have simply been showing the reality of Thailand on the ground, to include the 2010 burning of the CBD by the Reds, and of the army shooting Thais and foreign journalists - and so much more of a dangerous and violent place.

Or does the OP only care about the foreigner he got caught up having to talk with because the foreigner isn't a fahlang foreigner (from Hong Kong)?

I know Thais studying abroad in any one of the English speaking fahlang lands always get it put to them that Thailand is a violent place, a statement the Thais abroad find disconcerting in the extreme but which is accurate to the foreigners who for a long time now have repeatedly seen violence and more violence coming out of Thailand.

The only counterweight to the news are the TAT promos that present Thailand as having the beaches and the Phuket-type spots the foreigner presented by the OP refers to. The TAT promos however are alongside the violence foreigners see on the news, so they don't and can't negate the violence or street chaos of the Thailand of late.

Maybe Thais have begun to care what foreigners think and believe.

I must object to your throw-away line of "the Army shooting Thais and foreign journalists". If you wish to be taken seriously, then you must remain impartial, so I would expect you also to make reference to the shooting, bombing and maiming of innocent onlookers by the red and black shirt mob...!!

Thank you for your off topic views.

But you should really speak to someone who cares what you think, and who cares you believe that you can lecture and scold them.

Your post is rejected outright due to its attitude.