Schengen Visa - 12 months validity - 90 day hitches

[ulike]

Hello

I am dual Thai / British national and am married to a British man, we live in Oman.

My Thai niece, for whom I have full legal custody of, as by order of the Thai family court, (and she who lives with us and has Omani residency as a family member). She also has a multi entry 2 year uk visit visa.

She has now been granted a Schengen visa, today, by the German embassy as we will be visiting Germany before Christmas. The visa granted is valid for 12 months and allows multiple entries for 90 days per hitch (multiple entries). I am a bit confused and left the embassy before I could ask!!!!

Q1: How come she got the 12 months and multiple entry at 90 days per hitch visa? When I travelled to Germany on a Thai passport before I became naturalisation as a Brit, I was only issued with a 3 months visa and multiple entry at 30 days per hitch........even when I lived in the UK with an indefinite lave to enter visa.

Q2: If we visit Germany first to start the visa off, do we then have to visit Germany as the port of entry every time we go to Europe? I would like to go to Spain in March only and not have to start in Germany.

Q3: What if, because of work, our Germany trip before Christmas is cancelled? Can we then use this same visa to go to Spain on in February?

Thank you for your response.

Tukda.

Edited November 17, 2013 by ulike

[ulike]

And another part to Q3: We might be changing our travel plans. Could we go straight to Denmark and not pass through Germany?

Thank you

[ulike]

hello forum

Any ideas about this post above? 150 views but no answers for me :-(

[Jay Sata]

Your Thai niece is limited to 90 days in a 180 day period throughout the area.

So you can travel freely during that period but she is not allowed back until over 180 days have elapsed.

[ulike]

Thanks Jay.

Can anyone answer my questions above this?

Thanks

[ulike]

And sorry, one more question to add to the others above here.

And I am asking this in the contextualise of this topic http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/677349-returning-to-the-uk-with-family/

Could we go to the UK for 3 months, then Spain for 3 months and then UK for another 3 months more and then to spain for 3 months more and then we can spend 1 year with no visa issue.

Possible?

Against the law?

[Jay Sata]

What's wrong with routing via Germany to Denmark?

Your plans re the Schengen visa won't work because of the limit of 90 days followed by a six month break before returning.

[ulike]

Your Thai niece is limited to 90 days in a 180 day period throughout the area.

What's wrong with routing via Germany to Denmark?

Your plans re the Schengen visa won't work because of the limit of 90 days followed by a six month break before returning.

I don't understand. You said she can spend 90 days in a Schengen state out of 180, so she could then go to the UK for the other 90 right?

[7by7]

Q1. I'm as confused as you!

A standard Schengen visa is valid for 180 days and multiple entry, allowing a maximum of 90 days in total in the Schengen area during that period, not 90 days per trip.

But it is possible to have variants on this; what does the visa actually say?

Can you contact the German embassy to ask them?

Q2. No, the visa is valid for all Schengen states; she wont have to enter the area via Germany each time.

Q3. As above, the visa is valid for all Schengen states, so yes to both parts; but Spanish/Danish immigration may ask why you have not visited Germany. Simply say that your plans changed due to circumstances.

Q4. For the UK; she has a two year multi entry visit visa and can use that as many times as she wishes to enter the UK during it's validity; provided she spends no more than 6 months in the UK per visit. There is also a convention, not rule, that a visitor should not spend more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK; but from the plan you have outlined I don't see you having a problem in that regard.

But, the other part of you question depends on what the conditions of her Schengen visa actually are. If she is only allowed a maximum of 90 days out of 180 in the Schengen area then obviously your plan wont work.

[Jay Sata]

I've read your other thread and frankly I thing moving to and fro around is not the solution to your problems.

You want to live in the UK and it appears your nieces status is the issue. I'd come home and put her in a private school while you try and resolve this problem. She will not qualify for free state education on a tourist visa.

Moving around Europe is both expensive and only complicates your residential status.

Good luck.

[7by7]

If it is your intention to use this plan so that she can live with you long enough to qualify for UK settlement under the de facto adoption rules, then I agree that using visit visas to move between the UK and another EEA state is probably not a solution.

As the rules on de facto adoption quoted to you in this post say, to qualify as a de facto adoption you and your husband must have been living together outside the UK for at least the 18 months prior to the application and she must have been living with you outside the UK for at least the 12 months prior to the application.

I'm sure that short visits to the UK during these periods are in order, but lengthy stays of the kind you envisage may very well not be.

I'm sorry to say this to you again, but I think this is another area where you need to seek professional advice.

If she is in the UK as a visitor, not only can she not attend a state school, she can't attend a private one either.

If you do decide to enrol her into a private school in the UK she will need a Tier 4 (Child) student visa, as explained to you in your other topic.

[Jay Sata]

If as you say you both have UK passports I'd be inclined to return home to the UK especially if you still have a property.

I'm afraid your best bet is to use the system just like others.

Once here I'd speak to a good immigration lawyer. I'd argue circumstances have changed and you both need to live and work in the UK.

Your niece,despite being on a tourist visa cannot be deported as she has no family who can support her. They cannot deport either of you.

Get self employed status as an freelance building architectural technician as your Thai qualifications won't allow you to use the word architect. The self employed ruse is how the the Rumanian's use the system by selling the Big Issue.

The other option is for you to return to Thailand once you've settled back in the UK and formalise all the paperwork to bring her back as a legal adopter.

Good luck

Edited November 18, 2013 by Jay Sata

[ulike]

Q1. I'm as confused as you!

A standard Schengen visa is valid for 180 days and multiple entry, allowing a maximum of 90 days in total in the Schengen area during that period, not 90 days per trip.

But it is possible to have variants on this; what does the visa actually say?

It says:

Schengener Straaten

Valid 10-12-13 until 09-12.14

Type of visa C

Number of entries Multi

Duration of stay 90 days

Q2. No, the visa is valid for all Schengen states; she wont have to enter the area via Germany each time.

Thanks

[ulike]

Q4. For the UK; she has a two year multi entry visit visa and can use that as many times as she wishes to enter the UK during it's validity; provided she spends no more than 6 months in the UK per visit. There is also a convention, not rule, that a visitor should not spend more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK; but from the plan you have outlined I don't see you having a problem in that regard.

Understood, thank you.

[ulike]

I've read your other thread and frankly I thing moving to and fro around is not the solution to your problems.

You want to live in the UK and it appears your nieces status is the issue. I'd come home and put her in a private school while you try and resolve this problem. She will not qualify for free state education on a tourist visa.

Moving around Europe is both expensive and only complicates your residential status.

Good luck.

Hello

I am just checking options. I don't want to come back to Thailand A: Because I want my niece to be outside a Thai speaking environmental situation. I want her to be speaking English when she gets to England and B: My husband is fluent in Thai and lived there as a young man but does not care for Thailand at all and it is very unlikely he would like to move there. He likes to holiday in Thailand but refers to it as a sweaty, backwards politically and socially and thinks its culturally selfish. ......... he doesn't like it at all!!!!

[ulike]

If it is your intention to use this plan so that she can live with you long enough to qualify for UK settlement under the de facto adoption rules, then I agree that using visit visas to move between the UK and another EEA state is probably not a solution.

As the rules on de facto adoption quoted to you in this post say, to qualify as a de facto adoption you and your husband must have been living together outside the UK for at least the 18 months prior to the application and she must have been living with you outside the UK for at least the 12 months prior to the application.

I'm sure that short visits to the UK during these periods are in order, but lengthy stays of the kind you envisage may very well not be.

I'm sorry to say this to you again, but I think this is another area where you need to seek professional advice.

If she is in the UK as a visitor, not only can she not attend a state school, she can't attend a private one either.

If you do decide to enrol her into a private school in the UK she will need a Tier 4 (Child) student visa, as explained to you in your other topic.

Excellent info - you are right in that we must have lived outside the UK, so its looking unlikely we can use this route of going between UK and Spain if we follow the de-facto route.

I am seeking professional advice but having some difficulty with a lawyer - some were just wrong!!!!

I am not sure that the sending her to uk private school will work either for the de facto route

[ulike]

If as you say you both have UK passports I'd be inclined to return home to the UK especially if you still have a property.

I'm afraid your best bet is to use the system just like others.

Once here I'd speak to a good immigration lawyer. I'd argue circumstances have changed and you both need to live and work in the UK.

Your niece,despite being on a tourist visa cannot be deported as she has no family who can support her. They cannot deport either of you.

Get self employed status as an freelance building architectural technician as your Thai qualifications won't allow you to use the word architect. The self employed ruse is how the the Rumanian's use the system by selling the Big Issue.

The other option is for you to return to Thailand once you've settled back in the UK and formalise all the paperwork to bring her back as a legal adopter.

Good luck

Yes, we have a home there in UK. And yes, I have spoken about this route before to the council by just getting there and refusing to leave BUT we want to do it legal and right way. I think we could end up in courts for a long time and maybe she would not be able to travel during that time.

But, like you said, I cannot see Great Britain deporting her and taking away hers and my right to family life and human rights. I am not a pressure on the system I have money and work and so does my husband.

To try and do the option from Thailand takes years and my husband has to have a work permit for 12 months before they will even accept the paperwork and documentations!

My qualifications are from the UK and States not Thailand.

We are going to need a lot of luck.

Edited November 19, 2013 by ulike

[ulike]

I just looked back at an old Thai passport from 2004. I also got a Schengen visa from the embassy of the Netherlands for 1 year under the same conditions. I had forgoten about that! Sorry.

[7by7]

I have spoken about this route (having her overstay a visit) before to the council by just getting there and refusing to leave BUT we want to do it legal and right way. I think we could end up in courts for a long time and maybe she would not be able to travel during that time.

Yes to both of those, plus the expense of taking it through the courts.

As we seem to have wandered away from your original questions in this topic and into discussing the best way of brining your niece to the UK, better perhaps to carry on those discussions in your topic on that subject so it's all in one place?

I've made some further comments in that topic.

[ulike]

That, to me, sounds like a good suggestion. Thank you 7by7

[Jay Sata]

Nice to see some sort of conclusion. Wandering around Europe is not a good idea when you want to go back to the UK.

My advice is return to the UK with your niece, get some decent legal advice here and while your husband takes care of life here return to Thailand and complete the paperwork.

You may also want to avail yourself of some good UK lawyers in Oman who may save you the trip back to Thailand in terms of getting a visa that would allow your daughter to enter the UK on a student visa.

[ulike]

Nice to see some sort of conclusion. Wandering around Europe is not a good idea when you want to go back to the UK.

My advice is return to the UK with your niece, get some decent legal advice here and while your husband takes care of life here return to Thailand and complete the paperwork.

You may also want to avail yourself of some good UK lawyers in Oman who may save you the trip back to Thailand in terms of getting a visa that would allow your daughter to enter the UK on a student visa.

Thank you Jay.

We don't want to be split up as a family.

There are no UK lawyers in Oman.

[Jay Sata]

Nice to see some sort of conclusion. Wandering around Europe is not a good idea when you want to go back to the UK.

My advice is return to the UK with your niece, get some decent legal advice here and while your husband takes care of life here return to Thailand and complete the paperwork.

You may also want to avail yourself of some good UK lawyers in Oman who may save you the trip back to Thailand in terms of getting a visa that would allow your daughter to enter the UK on a student visa.

Thank you Jay.

We don't want to be split up as a family.

There are no UK lawyers in Oman.

I was suggesting someone in the expat community there might help you.

As I have suggested before your best bet is to return home to the UK on the valid visa you have for your niece. There are plenty of immigration experts in this country. The worst that can happen is you may have to do another trip to Thailand to finalise the paperwork.

[ulike]

Thank you. I think I have now sourced a UK immigration lawyer in the UK and applying to the High court shortly soon.

[Jay Sata]

Thank you. I think I have now sourced a UK immigration lawyer in the UK and applying to the High court shortly soon.

Excellent news.

Fingers crossed for a successful outcome.

[ulike]

Thank you Jay.