Why are Triumphs made here so expensive?

[liddelljohn]

Triumph Bonnevilles895 cc are made in chonburi , triumph boast about the 3 factories here

so why is the bonneville 690,000 Baht when a Ducati monster is 429,000 or Kwak Z800 is 375,000 ,,,, Kwak vulcan 900 cruiser is 460k ,,

whats with triumph ,, they dont seem to sell many ,,Pattaya dealer has many bikes gathering dust ???

OK UK imported model I can undestand why they would be silly price but one made 30 miles up the road should be same price as the others !!!!

Edited November 21, 2013 by liddelljohn

[bazmlb]

Triumph are made in BOI factory areas and under this can only be exported, they are then re imported back to Thailand as if they were made overseas and taxed as such, Trimuphs engines are also made in England, then sent here and then sent back in the completed bikes.

Ducatti are made in the free zone and are allowed to directly sell a limited amount locally.

[thaicbr]

And the Triumph dealer here doesn't really give a toss so no pressure brought on Triumph management. Dumb really, but there ya go.

[DILLIGAD]

And the Triumph dealer here doesn't really give a toss so no pressure brought on Triumph management. Dumb really, but there ya go.  

True but why should they care as long as the dealer is making a profit.

I would buy a Triumph tomorrow if they were a more realistic price !

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Richard-BKK]

Triumph does not make motorcycles in Thailand anymore, they are now made in India – the Thai factory currently produces only a few parts which are shipped to India. From mid 2014 the Thai factory will be retooled to be a spare parts manufacturing and distribution center for Southeast Asia.

For motor vehicles imported from India 60% import tax plus several other taxes and duties with variable rates depending on what import license the import company has...

Edited November 22, 2013 by Richard-BKK

[meechai]

Triumph does not make motorcycles in Thailand anymore, they are now made in India – the Thai factory currently produces only a few parts which are shipped to India. From mid 2014 the Thai factory will be retooled to be a spare parts manufacturing and distribution center for Southeast Asia.

For motor vehicles imported from India 60% import tax plus several other taxes and duties with variable rates depending on what import license the import company has...

A little off topic I know but now that you have said 60% for bikes from India

can you expand on that? Is it a flat tax or dependent on engine size?

Also the "several other taxes" could you say even roughly what they total % wise

of the original bikes price?

Example if the Imports from India get taxed 60% does the several other taxes drive that up to 100%

more? less? If you know it would be interesting to hear.

[Richard-BKK]

For the import of a vehicle from India for personal use, smaller than 2000cc, but greater than 250cc, you pay 60% import duty (this because Thailand and India have a free-trade-agreement but motor vehicles for road use are on the exception list, regular import duty from any country without special trade agreements is 80%).

For the import of motorcycles with an engine size smaller than 250cc (and soon 300cc) the rules are much different as it involves ASEAN agreements

If you're importing the vehicle for personal use, and you're not a Thai registered company with special “market related” import license you also need to pay 30% excise tax, plus 10% Interior Tax and the inescapable 7% sales tax (VAT).

Of course if you import a new motorcycle from India you also need to obtain an import permit from the Thai Industrial Standard Institute.

Some people will probably know ways to pay less import duty or tax, but my experience is that in the long run people most people think back and said “I wished I did it 100% legal and the correct way”, the other part of the people just blame somebody else...mostly the Thai government.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Richard-BKK

[bazmlb]

Triumph does not make motorcycles in Thailand anymore, they are now made in India the Thai factory currently produces only a few parts which are shipped to India. From mid 2014 the Thai factory will be retooled to be a spare parts manufacturing and distribution center for Southeast Asia.

Triumph are still manufacturing here and have a very large setup.

[Briggsy]

Triumph does not make motorcycles in Thailand anymore, they are now made in India the Thai factory currently produces only a few parts which are shipped to India. From mid 2014 the Thai factory will be retooled to be a spare parts manufacturing and distribution center for Southeast Asia.

Triumph are still manufacturing here and have a very large setup.

Have they recovered from the flooding of their factory then?

[bazmlb]

Triumph does not make motorcycles in Thailand anymore, they are now made in India the Thai factory currently produces only a few parts which are shipped to India. From mid 2014 the Thai factory will be retooled to be a spare parts manufacturing and distribution center for Southeast Asia.

Triumph are still manufacturing here and have a very large setup.

Have they recovered from the flooding of their factory then?

yes and they do not just have one factory here

[BirdsandBooze]

As Richard said, Triumph no longer assemble bikes in Thailand (never ever heard them boasting about their factories either). Outside of Europe and the USA, India is going to be a huge market for them hence the super factory they've built there and the development of completely new models with an eye on the Indian bike buyer.

[meechai]

For the import of a vehicle from India for personal use, smaller than 2000cc, but greater than 250cc, you pay 60% import duty (this because Thailand and India have a free-trade-agreement but motor vehicles for road use are on the exception list, regular import duty from any country without special trade agreements is 80%).

For the import of motorcycles with an engine size smaller than 250cc (and soon 300cc) the rules are much different as it involves ASEAN agreements

If you're importing the vehicle for personal use, and you're not a Thai registered company with special “market related” import license you also need to pay 30% excise tax, plus 10% Interior Tax and the inescapable 7% sales tax (VAT).

Of course if you import a new motorcycle from India you also need to obtain an import permit from the Thai Industrial Standard Institute.

Some people will probably know ways to pay less import duty or tax, but my experience is that in the long run people most people think back and said “I wished I did it 100% legal and the correct way”, the other part of the people just blame somebody else...mostly the Thai government.

Thank You that is very interesting. I have also heard of folks riding in & getting a temp reg that they renew every 6 months I think it was?

but actually what I was more curious about was what a dealer or brand pays for importing from India their stock.

Folks Like KTM? Do they also pay roughly 60-80% or more? Less?

Thank You

Edited November 22, 2013 by meechai

[maamoot]

I guess there has been changes since this report ?

http://www.motorbeam.com/bikes/triumph/triumph-to-import-bikes-from-thailand-for-india/

Edited November 22, 2013 by maamoot

[Richard-BKK]

I guess there has been changes since this report ?

http://www.motorbeam.com/bikes/triumph/triumph-to-import-bikes-from-thailand-for-india/

This article is based on a press release by Triumph at the end of January 2013, in which they said that Triumph would be available on the Indian market at the end of year (2013).

At that moment Triumph had not released the information that they where investing in a super factory in India (that was revealed in a press release mid June 2013).

So because Triumph had said that they would return to the India Motorcycle market, and not yet reveled that they where also building a factory in India a good amount of people where speculating that Triumph India would be importing motorcycles from Thailand (the logical nearest factory).

But now that the full Indian plans from Triumph are revealed we know that currently parts are still being produced in Thailand, this parts are shipped to a factory in the Gurgaon-Manesar area in Haryana, India. According to the plan, Triumph Motorcycles assembling completely knocked-down (CKD) kits at its factory. This CKD's will be fully assembled in England or in another facility in India where Triumph is training future workers for its Karnataka "Super" factory...

The Triumph “super” manufacturing plant in Karnataka, India will slowly take over complete production of the motorcycles with the current plan the Karnataka, India factory will be capable to produce Triumph's worldwide demand at the end of 2015. Last year Triumph produced in both its production facilities 49,000 units, which they want to nearly double for 2015....

Edited November 22, 2013 by Richard-BKK

[Richard-BKK]

In an unofficial story (rumor) the story go's that the Gurgaon-Manesar factory (who is now producing CKD units) will continue to produce CKDs and ship them to regional hubs for assembling. The current factory in Chonburi is one of this locations in the rumor...

If this is true, than Triumph can seriously reduce the import duty on its motorcycles for Thailand.

[undercover]

I was looking at a 13 year old Triumph Thunderbird 900 for sale yesterday with a very metallic sounding engine for 350,000 Baht. sounds expensive to me. Shame its like this as Triumphs are my all time favorite bikes.

[liddelljohn]

I have done some research ,With help from a some local industry insiders involved in the Eastern seeboard auto manufacturing industry which is huge and a major local dealer who have been very helpful with information .

Triumph factory 1 &3 are located in Bowin Eastern and Hemeraj industrial areas in rayong .

Factory 1 is the oldest its been running for over 12 years making Parts , such as frames , swing arms mudguards ,fuel tanks , brackets , and machining facilities ,it has paint and plating as well, it also acts as a consolidating warehouse for parts bought in from other suppliers in the Local area and ASEAN which can be sent to other plants or UK .

factory 3 is the newest built 4 years ago and was casting and machining engine parts for Hinkley UK factory,, but now also produces Bonneville twin engines on site for factory 2 built in 2006 which is located in the Amata Nakorn Chonburi free zone and is an assemby line models produced there now are Bonneville and America although Rocket 3 models were assembled there ,some Thunderbird 1700cc models are assembled for Asia as CKD , it has 2 flexi production lines .there is another 8 rai of expansion space available on this site which can be seen from the motorway from Bangkok to Pattaya .

there is also another extension plant under contruction at Hemaraj Bowin which is an annexe of factory 3 unclear what is going to be made in the new building but a lot of heavy machine tools ,CNC and specialist boring machines are on order for this unit ??? more engines ???

Super plant in India is stated to have eventual production capacity of 300,000 bikes a year but so far only new 250/350 twin is scheduled to be primary model

currently hinkley produces all sports triples ,spped 3 street 3 , tourers and adventure model and rockets , and big 1700cc twins and some bonnevilles it makes engines too with many ancillary parts coming from Thailand

apparently all the Thai factories have full BOI approval ,, but bikes produced in the Amata nakorn facility dont have the tax free incentives like Ducati, kawasaki or honda have . The reasons for this are unclear .......it is said that Triumph dont care about the Thai market and that the official distributer /Importer is the problem ,,,,could be true as he used to control Ducati in thailand until Ducati opened their plant here then he was eased out of the distribution loop because he wanted it to remain exclusive ,,which was not the new Ducati policy so they awarded dealerships to new blood with spectacular results .Some of the ''NEW'' dealers are trying to persuade Triumph to change the Thai distribution policy for the Brand

If it happens for instance the Bonneville 895 would come down to around 400k .

It has also been pointed out that indian built machines , Triumph KTM HD, Enfield and others will come under the Asean agreement FTA in 2015 as india has negotiated agreement with the FTA area which should help matters and also bikes made in japan will be cheaper too under the FTA .

Yamaha and Suzuki are expected to announce big bike production in Thailand soon . Taiwanese ancillary parts for motorcycle manufaturers are setting up JV units here as are the Japanese .

BMW are looking at india or thailand as a production site and Apprillia / Motoguzzi have expressed expansionist interest in Asia markets after seeing ducatis success which will require investment and facilities here .

Piaggio are already making bikes/Scooters in vietnam

Expect some exiting announcements over the next couple of years and even more choice and hopefully reasonable prices .

My Thanks to Frank Richter,,Dom Boonprakab...James Sanderson ...Luciano from Ducati and the nice man from the BOI office at Hemeraj and Yai from mityon group .Oh and a couple of souces who asked to remain anonymous for business reasons .

[guzzi850m2]

Thanks for the insider knowledge liddelljohn

Why is the local distributor not interested in cheap bikes?

He could sell so many more bikes if they dropped down to human levels.

I hope Triumph pull the plug on this guy as Ducati did.

[maamoot]

Great post , thanks

I have done some research ,With help from a some local industry insiders involved in the Eastern seeboard auto manufacturing industry which is huge and a major local dealer who have been very helpful with information .

Triumph factory 1 &3 are located in Bowin Eastern and Hemeraj industrial areas in rayong .

Factory 1 is the oldest its been running for over 12 years making Parts , such as frames , swing arms mudguards ,fuel tanks , brackets , and machining facilities ,it has paint and plating as well, it also acts as a consolidating warehouse for parts bought in from other suppliers in the Local area and ASEAN which can be sent to other plants or UK .

factory 3 is the newest built 4 years ago and was casting and machining engine parts for Hinkley UK factory,, but now also produces Bonneville twin engines on site for factory 2 built in 2006 which is located in the Amata Nakorn Chonburi free zone and is an assemby line models produced there now are Bonneville and America although Rocket 3 models were assembled there ,some Thunderbird 1700cc models are assembled for Asia as CKD , it has 2 flexi production lines .there is another 8 rai of expansion space available on this site which can be seen from the motorway from Bangkok to Pattaya .

there is also another extension plant under contruction at Hemaraj Bowin which is an annexe of factory 3 unclear what is going to be made in the new building but a lot of heavy machine tools ,CNC and specialist boring machines are on order for this unit ??? more engines ???

Super plant in India is stated to have eventual production capacity of 300,000 bikes a year but so far only new 250/350 twin is scheduled to be primary model

currently hinkley produces all sports triples ,spped 3 street 3 , tourers and adventure model and rockets , and big 1700cc twins and some bonnevilles it makes engines too with many ancillary parts coming from Thailand

apparently all the Thai factories have full BOI approval ,, but bikes produced in the Amata nakorn facility dont have the tax free incentives like Ducati, kawasaki or honda have . The reasons for this are unclear .......it is said that Triumph dont care about the Thai market and that the official distributer /Importer is the problem ,,,,could be true as he used to control Ducati in thailand until Ducati opened their plant here then he was eased out of the distribution loop because he wanted it to remain exclusive ,,which was not the new Ducati policy so they awarded dealerships to new blood with spectacular results .Some of the ''NEW'' dealers are trying to persuade Triumph to change the Thai distribution policy for the Brand

If it happens for instance the Bonneville 895 would come down to around 400k .

It has also been pointed out that indian built machines , Triumph KTM HD, Enfield and others will come under the Asean agreement FTA in 2015 as india has negotiated agreement with the FTA area which should help matters and also bikes made in japan will be cheaper too under the FTA .

Yamaha and Suzuki are expected to announce big bike production in Thailand soon . Taiwanese ancillary parts for motorcycle manufaturers are setting up JV units here as are the Japanese .

BMW are looking at india or thailand as a production site and Apprillia / Motoguzzi have expressed expansionist interest in Asia markets after seeing ducatis success which will require investment and facilities here .

Piaggio are already making bikes/Scooters in vietnam

Expect some exiting announcements over the next couple of years and even more choice and hopefully reasonable prices .

My Thanks to Frank Richter,,Dom Boonprakab...James Sanderson ...Luciano from Ducati and the nice man from the BOI office at Hemeraj and Yai from mityon group .Oh and a couple of souces who asked to remain anonymous for business reasons .

[ll2]

nice information liddle john, thanks a lot.

hope Triumph will do something so we can see 450 k Street triples here!

Sure Suzuki will be producing big bikes here. hope they do gixxer 600 or hayabusa here though

[DualSportBiker]

I heard that Triumph are planning a new smaller bike better suited to Asian markets - anyone else heard this?

Great info liddelljohn.

[liddelljohn]

I was looking at a 13 year old Triumph Thunderbird 900 for sale yesterday with a very metallic sounding engine for 350,000 Baht. sounds expensive to me. Shame its like this as Triumphs are my all time favorite bikes.

is that the one in the thai dealers in duck Square pattaya its not bad visually but does need a really big service and starter sprag recall update has probably not been done which is a bugger of a job ,, i did 2 in UK .

[liddelljohn]

I heard that Triumph are planning a new smaller bike better suited to Asian markets - anyone else heard this?

Great info liddelljohn.

That will be the new 250/350 from the new super plant in india ,, release probablky next year

so far only teasers its probably a twin and may be called Tiger Cub

[ll2]

^

Probability of a tiger cub is nice. Finally something to replace my honda wave!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[DILLIGAD]

That will be the new 250/350 from the new super plant in india ,, release probablky next year

so far only teasers its probably a twin and may be called Tiger Cub

I heard that Triumph is likely to drop the name 'Tiger' from the Cub because that name is already used and known as an Adventure style bike, so its likely to be a 'Triumph Cub'

Edited November 23, 2013 by DILLIGAD

[nikster]

Like the Honda Cub? No way. Esp. since Honda just re-released the bike as "Super Cub".

[Jerry Cornelius]

Like the Honda Cub? No way. Esp. since Honda just re-released the bike as "Super Cub".

If any-one owns the rights to the name of Tiger Cub for a bike, I would expect it to be Triumph. That's what they called one of their bikes in the 70's. A smaller cousin of the Tiger.

Jerry

[Jerry Cornelius]

I would expect the price differences of different bikes on offer in Thailand to be due to revenue and excise tariffs. The price they are sold at in other countries (including the West) probably affects this also.

Personally, I think Triumph prices are reasonable in (for) Thailand for what you get and I'm hoping to be purchasing a Thruxton quite soon.

After all how much would you pay for an equivelant Harley.

For me it's a matter of how much I like the bike against a particular price.

Alternatively I could always buy the bike elsewhere and import it. I very much doubt that importing a Thruxton would be the cheaper option, though.

Jerry

[nikster]

Like the Honda Cub? No way. Esp. since Honda just re-released the bike as "Super Cub".

If any-one owns the rights to the name of Tiger Cub for a bike, I would expect it to be Triumph. That's what they called one of their bikes in the 70's. A smaller cousin of the Tiger.

Possibly, Jerry but it's about perception. I suppose it's not so bad in other countries, actually. In Thailand, I don't think so. BMW isn't going to name a car "Camry" either, name rights or not. The Honda Cub is the grandfather of all scooters, continued as dream/wave and re-released as Super Cub. It's the highest volume Motorcycle in history.

Edited November 24, 2013 by nikster

[nikster]

I would expect the price differences of different bikes on offer in Thailand to be due to revenue and excise tariffs. The price they are sold at in other countries (including the West) probably affects this also.

Personally, I think Triumph prices are reasonable in (for) Thailand for what you get and I'm hoping to be purchasing a Thruxton quite soon.

After all how much would you pay for an equivelant Harley.

For me it's a matter of how much I like the bike against a particular price.

Alternatively I could always buy the bike elsewhere and import it. I very much doubt that importing a Thruxton would be the cheaper option, though.

If you like a bike and have the money, go for it. Triumph is definitely the leader when it comes to classic retro-look bikes and I think the only brand that officially sells these here. W800 isn't made here for example, not sure if there are others.

And unless Triumph actually starts making its whole range here, as speculated in this thread, then the depreciation isn't so bad; so rather than looking at the purchase price you might look at depreciation and find that depreciation of such bikes in Thailand is much less than for a similar bike in the west, even if the bike costs much less upfront over there.

In another thread somebody mentioned losing 50,000 baht in one year owning and selling a Ducati Monster 795. That's more than fair, isn't it? Comparable to renting a scooter month per month at just over 4,000 baht / month. In the USA you lose that amount riding it off the lot.