Thaksin calls USA a "useless friend"

[Wash]

What does Bush think of Thailand. I think this toast made during the Bush visit says a lot and is worth including in this discussion.

"REMARKS BY PRESIDENT BUSH

IN AN EXCHANGE OF TOASTS

Grand Palace

Bangkok, Thailand

7:40 P.M. (Local)

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Your Majesty, for your warm and gracious welcome. Thanks also to Her Majesty, the Queen, for hosting this event. I thank, as well, the Grand Chamberlain who earlier today led us on a tour of the magnificent Temple of the Emerald Buddha. Laura and I have been seeing the famous hospitality of the Thai people, and we are most grateful.

The United States of America deeply values our alliance with the Kingdom of Thailand. Your Majesty, the world has changed greatly since your reign began 57 years ago. Yet thanks to your enlightened leadership and steady hand, the

friendship between our two nations has remained constant.

Over the decades, we worked together to build the foundations of liberty in this region -- rule of law, respect for human rights, free enterprise and peace. Today we continue to strive toward the same goals in the face of different challenges. Nations are working together in Afghanistan and Iraq. Royal Thai troops have served well in both places, helping Afghans and Iraqis make the transition from tyranny to self-government.

The emergence of these free nations is a setback for terrorism and radicalism. By sharing the duties of our coalition, Thailand is contributing to peace and stability in those two countries and increasing the security of all free nations.

Thailand has played a vital role in East Timor, helping create a new nation, to bring dignity to nearly a million people and to stabilize an entire region. You are fully joined in the fight against the drug trade and against HIV/AIDS and other diseases.

Thailand is a principled, generous nation, rising to meet the challenges of our time. Thailand's positive influence in the world is inspired by the fine example of service that Your Majesty, and Her Majesty, the Queen, set for your people. It's also vivid in the great, humane traditions of this land. America is honored to have your friendship.

So I offer a toast to Your Majesties, to the Royal Family, and to your great nation. (A toast is offered.)

END"

I was looking for the original source of the publication that causes such consternation for PM Shinawatra, but could not find it. I ran across this and thought I would add it to the mix.

[randyksf]

How can I put this… Some of the people on this board really amaze me at time. The complete stupidly of what was typed is shocking.

“Kill a few druggies and if a few innocents get in the way, so what, why were the there in the first place?”

So what you are saying “You would be happy to lose your family member by shot for getting beer for you.” People were killed on main streets.

If you are stupid enough to think all drug dealers sit in a dark street and do things out of site, you are really more deft that one could imagine. Most deal I know of happen in plan site like at the pubs and other major places.

You are a true dork and should not be on this earth.

For this statement “Far as Drug dealers - I have no problem with them making wholesale executions.”

So next you want people arrested getting a hooker to have there DXXX cut off by the cop who finds you.

To put it simple, the leader of my country is a Dork and the US has enough problems and dirty laundry. However the reports should make you all feel better that someone is keeping an eye on the place where were all live.

Folks it’s called checks and balances. Something that is needed, even when both sides are dirty. Having someone say something is a good thing.

I really saddens me with the comments, made in support of people being killed for no reason.

There is no disagreement that there needs to be a hard line on drugs. Having state run executions and due process of law is fine. What I have a problem with is one person being judge, jury, and executioner.

[A. BOOZER]

I feel that George Bush has no right to critisise any country or politician without first looking at America's own record.

[Thailand]

How can I put this… Some of the people on this board really amaze me at time. The complete stupidly of what was typed is shocking.

“Kill a few druggies and if a few innocents get in the way, so what, why were the there in the first place?”

Read the WHOLE post and see where my tongue is! Legal I hope!

[Maejo Man]

Beach, really. I've never heard such a load of old twoddle in my life!

"Did anyone of you travel through the northern and eastern part of Thailand in the last 2 years? If not, before the cleanup, there where addicts sitting or lying in the villages, some even had just made a shot, the syringe still in their arms. This you won't see anymore anywhere."

"Did anyone travel through....blah, blah" I have travelled through the north and north east extensively for the past eighteen years; even romote villages, and not ONCE have I ever seen a single case of severe drug abuse by Thais. However, I've seen plenty of very silly tourists in a state of narcosis from the effects of a variety of odd substances.

"This you won't see anymore anywhere." A bunch of rubbish, never saw it in the first place.

I think I will have to generate a signature...."Toxin by name, Toxin by nature" Quite catchy don't you think?

[mrvietnam2001]

I have no problem with them making wholesale executions. (Shot on sight) They are the worst parasites in the world.

If you had a brain you would be substituting the word government before your quote. But alas, your thread of thought speaks volumes for your lack of depth. Don't worry though, you're far from alone.

Far as thaksin, I personally couldn't care less about what he or any other whining dictator has to say. Now if the thai people would like to speak up, and say that my people are useless, then I would be all in favor of terminating all business with Thailand and sourcing everything we as a people do in terms of business elsewhere.

All. No problem.

But I seriously doubt the people would have the chutzpah to say such a thing even if they felt that way.

Mr Vietnam

[mrvietnam2001]

Over the decades, we worked together to build the foundations of liberty in this region -- rule of law, respect for human rights, free enterprise and peace. Nations are working together in Afghanistan and Iraq. Royal Thai troops have served well in both places, helping Afghans and Iraqis make the transition from tyranny to self-government.

Thailand is contributing to peace and stability in those two countries and increasing the security of all free nations.

Hahahahaha sometimes the B/S gets so deep it becomes funny

Mr Vietnam

[Paul]

The 2000 lives lost will save many lives around the world, including those in the U.S.

Morality does not work in all situations.

How can we compare this event in Thailand with the shock and awe as well as the

occupation of Iraq? Come on, useless friends! Aren't you practicing double stadards?

[alanw]

I reinforce part of what 'randksf' posted.

If your father, mother, wife, husband, brother, sister, son or daughter was killed in the war on drugs, and was totally innocent - just happened, honestly & innocently, to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Seriously, would you just say "never mind - it's ok"?

Further, is it OK to build legal precedents, which can have strong sway in courts, on this basis?

Regards

[mrvietnam2001]

Come on, useless friends! Aren't you practicing double stadards?

Hey, let's not be friends ok?

Mr Vietnam

[britmaveric]

Last post was sarcastic in nature- anyways my point you really can't trust coppers or govt to go out and do this sort of thing. Too many variables involved which will definitely get innocent citizens killed.

Anyways this is getting way too political- feels like the Bear Pit!

[Paul]

"Far as thaksin, I personally couldn't care less about what he or any other whining dictator has to say. Now if the thai people would like to speak up, and say that my people are useless, then I would be all in favor of terminating all business with Thailand and sourcing everything we as a people do in terms of business elsewhere."

This reflects the real arrogant attitude of an American!

We all are interdependant and that is how the world works.

The whole world spoke UP against the U.S. attack of Iraq.

Did the U.S. care? Did it even care about what the U.N. said?

On a similar token, should Taksin care about the bullshit

that the U.S. government say, not realizing why Taksin had

to do it? I think not.

Moral standards are varied and they work differently in the

different cultures. So, we need respect from the U.S. government,

our friend over half a century.

[mbkudu]

I have to agree with Axel on this one. I'm American and I feel America needs to stop interfering in other countries business, heck it has stop interfering in Americans business. The present administration, if it can be called that, Has botched and just plain f$$$ed over so many countries with its' lust for power and money That it seems like there's no end in sight. The clone from Connecticut (he ain't no Texan friends. He's just another east coast Ivy League shit) Must be taken down in a landslide election to save the world. Save the world vote for somebody

else, anybody except Arnold or Kissinger please!

[Orion76]

The 2000 lives lost will save many lives around the world, including those in the U.S.

Since when are drug users in countries like the US interested in Burmese meth? I think they are perfectly capable of producing that domestically, while cocaine is imported from South America, opium derived drugs from Afghanistan and xtc from the Netherlands.

Killing 2000 errand boys won't make a ###### difference around the world.

[Orion76]

Well last year when all the killings were in full swing, I was telling a few freinds in the U K/Europe the situation. Surprisingling, many felt its...." what we should have more of here, too soft in the west" and its true.

So who gets to decide who lives or dies?

Those monkeys in their brown jumpsuits who don't even have the brain capacity to control a traffic light?

[sinbinjack]

who are the US kidding they try to police the whole world with their brand of justice let thailand alone to use their own brand

ps i am generaly in favour of US polices but they can be overbearing

jack

[Dove]

Innocent people were killed figthing drugs in Thailand.

So were Innocent people killed in the search for a dictator and WMD in Iraq. Who were the ones that gave the order to kill?

and so were Innocent people were killed in the fight against communist in Indo-China. Who were the ones who caused the war?

Till date many still suffer the injuries brought upon them by chemicals used in these wars, many still bear the scars.

and so do Innocent people die in Lebanon and in Israel. Who divided the land so that brothers would fight?

So who is more guilty of human rights the goverment of Thailand, the USA or the world.

Who has given the US the right to judge?

[mrvietnam2001]

This reflects the real arrogant attitude of an American!

We all are interdependant and that is how the world works.

The whole world spoke UP against the U.S. attack of Iraq.

Did the U.S. care? Did it even care about what the U.N. said?

On a similar token, should Taksin care about the bullshit

that the U.S. government say, not realizing why Taksin had

to do it? I think not.

Moral standards are varied and they work differently in the

different cultures. So, we need respect from the U.S. government,

our friend over half a century.

Having comprehension problems? Breathe deep and re read before you make comments.

We need you a lot less than you need us. Don't like that fact? Too bad. We don't either.

Mr Vietnam

[mrvietnam2001]

I have to agree with Axel on this one. I'm American and I feel America needs to stop interfering in other countries business, heck it has stop interfering in Americans business. The present administration, if it can be called that, Has botched and just plain f$$$ed over so many countries with its' lust for power and money That it seems like there's no end in sight. The clone from Connecticut (he ain't no Texan friends. He's just another east coast Ivy League shit) Must be taken down in a landslide election to save the world. Save the world vote for somebody

else, anybody except Arnold or Kissinger please!

Waaaaah waaaaaah waaaaahahahahaha

Mr Vietnam

[tracer0]

If the findings of the US State department are correct or not is one thing. I believe they are correct.

Another thing, however, is the criticizing of Thailand, an idependant country by a foreign government. I do not care, if it is the USA or Timbuktu who feels to be so above everything that they can blame others. Do not throw with stones when sitting in a glass house.

If somebody feels that something is wrong in Thailand or wherever, there are proper ways to deal with. Go to the U.N. or go to the courts in The Hague, otherwise stick to your own business.

sounds like the advice in a 500 year old book.

You are going to the market with a wolf you are the goat or the sheep.

In short, PLEASE stop quoting bloody taxin as all of us living in Thailand have heard enough of it..,

[george]

Follow-up:

REACTION TO US RIGHTS REPORT: 'You're a useless friend'

Thaksin rails at State Department comment on 'worsening' human rights

BANGKOK: Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday slammed the United States as a "useless friend" for issuing a damning report on the deterioration of human rights here.

"It's unacceptable to me the way the US came out with the report by citing media reports. What kind of friend are they?" a fuming Thaksin said.

"Once every year, the US comes out and damages the reputation of its friend. What would they do if Thailand issued the same [kind of] report?" Thaksin told reporters that although Thailand has been in discussions with the US on the human rights situation here the US produced a report that differed from the information Thailand supplied.

The US State Department yesterday released its annual country-by-country review of human rights. Thailand's record "worsened" last year as a result of the extra-judicial killings and arbitrary arrests during the first round of the war on drugs, from February to April, the report said.

"I have to say bluntly that it [the US report] really annoyed me. I have asked the Foreign Ministry to issue a statement," Thaksin said.

The Foreign Ministry "invited" US Ambassador Darryl Johnson to receive an official complaint.

Foreign Minister Surakiart Sathirathai said: "It has been like this for at least three times during my time [as foreign minister]. We feel that it is something that is not healthy for close allies like the US and Thailand."

In what appeared to be an attempt by the ministry to maximise media coverage of the summoning of Johnson, photographers were asked to position themselves in what is usually an off-limits area.

The ministry issued a statement on Thursday expressing its "deep disappointment" over the report, saying it contained "serious inaccuracies" - particularly on the government's anti-drugs campaign - and overstated the toll from summary killings.

"The report does not provide a balanced account of the facts, even though the Thai government has gone to great lengths to provide all the information to the US side," the statement read.

This was also the case for the reports in 2002 and 2001, when Thailand had to pinpoint various factual errors and the US apologised and admitted that the reports were done in haste, Surakiart claimed.

Such a report is "useless" for the governments as well as the public and it needs to be corrected, he added.

Johnson, who met with Deputy Foreign Permanent Secretary Veerasak Futrakul, declined to make any statement.

Ministry spokesman Sihasak Phuangketkeow, however, quoted Johnson as saying: "The US generally views Thailand's human rights record in a positive light, whether it is about economic or political freedom."

Sihasak submitted a memo to Johnson claiming that only 46 cases of extra-judicial killings were recorded and the 1,386 drug-related deaths cited in the US report were not extra-judicial executions.

He also dismissed the allegation that the government would not allow the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights to make a visit to look into the matter. "A request has never been made," he said.

According to National Police figures released in December, only nine cases out of 1,176 drug-related deaths have been prosecuted.

The drug killings sparked an outcry from local and international human rights organisations.

Foreign governments and the UN Human Rights Commissioner expressed grave concern about the murders, while His Majesty the King called on the government to give a detailed accounting for all the deaths.

The Thai government had "failed to investigate and prosecute vigorously those who committed such abuses, contributing to a climate of impunity," the US report said.

After Thaksin's visit to Washington last June, bilateral relations strengthened as Thailand agreed to dispatch troops to Iraq and offered Americans immunity from the International Criminal Court. Thailand signed the ICC treaty but has not yet ratified it.

Last December, US President George W Bush officially designated Thailand a major non-Nato ally, a move that boosted security cooperation between the two countries.

--The Nation 2004-02-28

[britmaveric]

*yawn*

[morphic]

It is unarguable that human rights are better respected in the US than in Thailand. That doesn't mean the US is perfect, but individuals have few rights in Thailand, and in my opinion it is all too easy for the Thai authorities or the powerful to abuse the poor and weak.

Personally, I think the US is absolutely right to criticise Thailand. And the US has every right to express its opinion on any suject matter it likes. Thailand also does. But we all know that Thailand doesn't like or understand the notion of free speech, and they react always with anger and aggressioin at the slightest criticism. In many ways, they are like a small child throwing a tantrum.

If Thailand has decided that the US is a 'useless friend', the Thailand could of course shut its stupid mouth and have nothing to do with the US. But, as even Thailand amd its moronic politicians can fathom out, that would send it into the dark ages.

The US, on the other hand, doesn't need Thailand, and Thailand ought to be able to figure that one out. My best advice to Thaksin would be to watch your mouth before you get slapped.

I find it incredible that evertime a Thai politician makes a remark on the international scene, they manage to make complete fools of themselves. Why don't they ever learn. Wait, I have an answer to that one. The answer is that they're a little bit on the stupid side.

[sam77]

Should US has the right to justify other countries business ?

Is it 2,000 killed was justify ? or is it human right was violated ?

Let put away the political hot air for a second, politics only take side of their favor and its only one-sided favor, and the facts will never discover.

The facts is how many are the drug dealers, how many are drug user just happen to buy drug at the wrong time, and how many just happen to be there at the wrong time ???

All of you probably already knew...from reading news paper or listen to the news, and who are those reporter got the news from....from the law enforcers just finish the job of....???

Was Thailand human rights violation.

Lets look at some place else.

Have you ever walk on the streets of Bangkok, I mean not just the streets you use to walk, I'm talk about the condition and surrounding, the way you try to cross the street and crossing the driveway wheres the cars and drivers are the king of the road and the human is not, the dirty air has freedom to be dirty and human have to breath them.

And what about "Bangkok, the sex destination", "The sex industry"....

All of these are human rights violation to women and childrens, many are victimize of human traffic.

What about mistress for the rich and high ranging officials, of cause, there are so many helpless women and childrens around why not just go ahead and buy them as a sex slaves, just call them up when ever you have an urge for it.

It's true government had tried very hard solve these problems but it doesn't seem to be successful, or perhaps just sweep them under the rug like many other things, or try to solve the problems with the wrong idea.

The US government reports what the finding, just like consumer report, you don't need to aceppted but you should be aware.

And so did I, this is just one man opinion, you don't have to take it, I just want to thank you for reading through the end.

[Foggy Bottom]

In mid-2002, then Interior Minister Purachai said in a news conference in Issaan that Police who had just killed 9 minor level drug traffickers in less than a week had not operated a shoot to kill policy.

In the same year, in his 5th December birthday speech, the King stated that he believed drugs were the greatest threat to Thai society.

In the same month, before Christmas, the Prime Minister announced a War on Drugs to commence in the New Year, most foreign resident were stunned in the January to learn that it would start on 1st February, run for three months and that by the end of April, Thailand would be free of drugs - after the laughter stopped, a few senior academics began to question how such a result could be achieved.

One of my missives was published stating that the frequency of the Prime Minister's visits to Beijing could only be taken as advic e seeking missions and that perhaps his intention was to undertake the task in the same style as Mao - who cleared China of prostitution and heroin adiction in 12 days. Prostitutes were re-educated (the diseased uncurables executed) and drug dealers similarly treated. Drug addicts on the other hand (roughly a million people) were simply "disappeared".

Great debate and angst has ensued from the 2500 killings in last years War on Drugs - the shootings were the public face of it all.

How many were "disappeared"? I know of a few .... visit www.akha.org and discover them for yourselves. Especially the 80 year olds dragged from their homes in the middle of the night in front of entire villages, never to be seen alive again.

That's been hapening since Siam was renamed in the middle of the last century. But how many of you know about it? How many of you considered that maybe, just maybe, the hundreds of resident US CIA, DEA, and other agents in the north of Thailand are reporting this back to the Pentagon who then inform the State Department for their annual report?

What about the British Journalists threatened with incarceration and expulsion for translating and commenting on a particular birthday speech by HM?

What about the foreign teachers sacked from government universities here for encouraging students to be critical thinkers and criticisers of political shenanigans?

What about the PM's declaration of July 31st as Thai Independence Day because that's the day he over-rode the BoT's chairman and ordered the repaying of the IMF loan?

What about his firm affirmation in front of the world's press (the week after 9-11) that there were no terrorists in Thailand and never had been?

What about his changing the telecoms laws, reducing foreign shareholding limits from 49% to 25% just after Orange had invested heavily in Thailand and in competition with AIS?

What about his using government funds to fly himself to Burma and India, both countries which almost immediately after his visits signed multi-billion dollar satellite-telecoms deals with Shin Corp?

What about Shin Corp promising to only own 50 % of the new budget airline, then one of the PM's former right hand men being recalled from Hong Kong to be CEO and owner of 1% instead of it being shared between both the Thai and Malaysian employees as instructed by the Board of Investment?

I could fill a twenty page post with questions like this - but do your own research and make up your own mind, especially if you're Thai, Tai, or Dtai. Remember, the Tai were here millennia before the Thai, and both were here centuries before the Chinese came south, so why is the Chinese leader of the Thai, now seeking to expel or eradicate the Tai?

It goes a lot deeper than drugs and the funding that last year's war elicited from the US in support of it.

[Boon Mee]

Basically, it's Politics as usual and Taksin shouldn't have taken that knee-jerk response to the report. His secondary/university education was in Police Science - New Mexico? USA. He's in the wrong job to have "thin-skin" to such criticism.

Boon Mee

[Martin]

Just back from a few days away in hospital, so I have only just seen this thread.

My first reaction was "People who live in glass houses shouldn't undress with the light on".

But maybe, in this emanicipated age, I should be non-judgmental, and now say "People who live in glass houses may cause some comment if they undress with the light on".

Anyway, I was interested in, and came to love, the Himala. And this is just an example of the grinding together of the tectonic plates of East and West cultures. Maybe interest will develop to love again.

[mraloha]

firstly for you bush bashers out there, it is not bush who makes these human rights calls, it is some do gooder liberal organization that is hardly bushs' modus. i really am tired of high minded self righteous (euros particularly) bashing bush. bush is a easy target because he takes action, as thaskin is. in many ways the two men have allot in common. and when it comes down to it, THAILAND AND THE WORLD NEED MEN LIKE BUSH AND THAKSIN, MEN WITH BALLS.

[mrvietnam2001]

. and when it comes down to it, THAILAND AND THE WORLD NEED MEN LIKE BUSH AND THAKSIN, MEN WITH BALLS.

Wide open for this one. Right wing socialism is what the world needs?

Good thinking. Not.

Mr Vietnam

[Boon Mee]

, THAILAND AND THE WORLD NEED MEN LIKE BUSH AND THAKSIN, MEN WITH BALLS.

Right-on, brother....!