A.B.S.

[WarpSpeed]

 

 

Are there no engineers on this thread? Very basic physics/dynamics : rolling friction is far greater than sliding friction. So as soon as the wheels lock , the friction between the tyre and road drops significantly and the car will actually speed up. Before ABS was banned in most classes of Motorsport, drivers, for the first time, could brake on corners. It had to be done skilfully of course. As for the ABS fitted to production cars, don't compare diamonds with cut glass - you get what you pay for. A car fitted with [properly functioning] ABS will always brake better and safer than the same car without. Duh! Edit. - sorry Bobfish. Just seen your post Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I guess you didn't see ANY of my posts either? The real trick without ABS is threshold braking, ABS is what happens AFTER you exceed the threshold and the ABS needs to prevent tire lock up but thanks for the observation anyways..

 

Hi WarpSpeed. I did see some of your posts before sending out mine - I think I clicked a few Likes too. I don't think the average Joe is interested in threshold braking unless of course they're boy racers - it takes massive concentration. Okay for emergency stops (if no ABS), but like I said if the ABS on your car is top class, then IMHO even the best drivers can't match it.


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With all do respect "boy racers" can't touch proper threshold braking the op is general and not specific and matters not whether anyone is interested the fact remains it's possible with the right driver which is basically the OP but the idea that you posted asking "are there no engineers in this thread?" suggests that there was no credible responses which mine were.

[WarpSpeed]

The fitting of ABS to most production cars must have saved countless lives and accidents over the years. I watched a little Nissan March lock up its brakes the other day; the driver couldn't control skid and off it went into a ditch. Had to be write off. ABS would have prevented that!


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Or some proper training and a little bit of common sense just as well.. Too many crutches in cars theses days are taking away proper driving skills when they are required..

[WarpSpeed]

 

 

Another question would be are there any "drivers" on this thread.
 
If one drives within the limits of the vehicle than one should never get into the situation where one needs ABS. If racing on a closed course then sure one can exploit the benefits of ABS (if allowed) to allow very late braking into a corner, but on a public roads? If one lives in a cold country where black ice can appear at any time then maybe but in Thailand? Oh "what about sand on the road?", I hear the cry, but if one lives near the beach then expecting sand on the road is the sign of an aware driver. 
 
Riding a bike helps. It makes one pay attention to the condition of the road surface.

You are forgetting there is traffic on the public roads that will often require emergency braking..... ABS can be of assistance here as well.

 

And even attentive drivers make mistakes and let their attention wane. Just 1 second is more than enough to potentially need an emergency stop.

 

Yes, but we're wayyyyy off track now, no pun intended, the OP is talking one instance, man versus ABS in dry conditions at same speeds..

[WarpSpeed]

 

 

Are there no engineers on this thread? Very basic physics/dynamics : rolling friction is far greater than sliding friction. So as soon as the wheels lock , the friction between the tyre and road drops significantly and the car will actually speed up. Before ABS was banned in most classes of Motorsport, drivers, for the first time, could brake on corners. It had to be done skilfully of course. As for the ABS fitted to production cars, don't compare diamonds with cut glass - you get what you pay for. A car fitted with [properly functioning] ABS will always brake better and safer than the same car without. Duh! Edit. - sorry Bobfish. Just seen your post Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Another question would be are there any "drivers" on this thread.

 

If one drives within the limits of the vehicle than one should never get into the situation where one needs ABS. If racing on a closed course then sure one can exploit the benefits of ABS (if allowed) to allow very late braking into a corner, but on a public roads? If one lives in a cold country where black ice can appear at any time then maybe but in Thailand? Oh "what about sand on the road?", I hear the cry, but if one lives near the beach then expecting sand on the road is the sign of an aware driver. 

 

Riding a bike helps. It makes one pay attention to the condition of the road surface. 

 

 

 

 

 

Probably no drivers of your standard, one thinks.

Of course you are forgetting that one may come across a wet road as a result of rain and one may also find occasionally that pedestrians step out in front of one, dogs sometimes cause one to have to use ones brakes harshly.  It is not unknown for the vehicle in front of one to stop suddenly causing one to have to stop suddenly also.  Neither is it unknown for the vehicle in front of one, that one is overtaking, to suddenly pull out in front of one again causing one to have to operate ones brakes in a manner that causes ones ABS to operate.  One could go on but one won't.

 

All of the above absolutely relates to driver awareness and skill levels, none of them should ever require ABS to react, it's all about awareness and reading traffic and surrounding conditions.

[WarpSpeed]

 

 

 

Are there no engineers on this thread? Very basic physics/dynamics : rolling friction is far greater than sliding friction. So as soon as the wheels lock , the friction between the tyre and road drops significantly and the car will actually speed up. Before ABS was banned in most classes of Motorsport, drivers, for the first time, could brake on corners. It had to be done skilfully of course. As for the ABS fitted to production cars, don't compare diamonds with cut glass - you get what you pay for. A car fitted with [properly functioning] ABS will always brake better and safer than the same car without. Duh! Edit. - sorry Bobfish. Just seen your post Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Another question would be are there any "drivers" on this thread.

 

If one drives within the limits of the vehicle than one should never get into the situation where one needs ABS. If racing on a closed course then sure one can exploit the benefits of ABS (if allowed) to allow very late braking into a corner, but on a public roads? If one lives in a cold country where black ice can appear at any time then maybe but in Thailand? Oh "what about sand on the road?", I hear the cry, but if one lives near the beach then expecting sand on the road is the sign of an aware driver. 

 

Riding a bike helps. It makes one pay attention to the condition of the road surface. 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever driven on ice ???? I have and the ABS works overtime. Works well on muddy roads where perhaps two wheels are in the shit and two are not, not to mention wet roads.

In my life I have driven a zillion miles, many in heavy goods vehicles with air brakes, had some scary moments in those. I have had one accident in my life where I wiped out a Citroen, reason, roadworks mud on the road, the car would not stop. If it had ABS it probably would have.

 

PS. I was found not guilty in court for that. Long story.
 

 

Nice Post T.A. Someone who has Driven Zillions, and not Pinged Paper Clips round Offices all his life , like many Experts here.

 

I'm not up to zillions yet only around trillions, but still driving hundreds of miles daily so it won't take too much longer.  

[bobfish]

Nothing more to add. I'm with WarpSpeed and Commander Tamson on this ABS thing.

[Ace of Pop]

Vocal Neal makes a good point. Where U Started.... I learned to drive on Portuguese Farm tracks  at the age of 10, in an old Auto Union  Car , slippy old red tracks,like ice when it rained, an dust bowls in the summer,sliding about was an everyday ting. When we moved to Englans i was 18ish and found the nice roads boring, no fun unless you drove fast,then i got nicked many times.

[transam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6yEO8U0cWBs

[Ace of Pop]

Now watch episode 4.

[Commander Tamson]

Vocal Neal makes a good point. Where U Started.... I learned to drive on Portuguese Farm tracks  at the age of 10, in an old Auto Union  Car , slippy old red tracks,like ice when it rained, an dust bowls in the summer,sliding about was an everyday ting. When we moved to Englans i was 18ish and found the nice roads boring, no fun unless you drove fast,then i got nicked many times.

Hey Ace! I lived in Cascais, just outside Lisbon, for 8 years. Found that most Portuguese drivers still drive exactly as you describe LoL


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[Ace of Pop]

 

Vocal Neal makes a good point. Where U Started.... I learned to drive on Portuguese Farm tracks  at the age of 10, in an old Auto Union  Car , slippy old red tracks,like ice when it rained, an dust bowls in the summer,sliding about was an everyday ting. When we moved to Englans i was 18ish and found the nice roads boring, no fun unless you drove fast,then i got nicked many times.

Hey Ace! I lived in Cascais, just outside Lisbon, for 8 years. Found that most Portuguese drivers still drive exactly as you describe LoL


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No doubt You found the Food heres as bad as the Driving after Lisboa area ,im from Sintra.  Oh for some Atlantic Fish on the Barbie.

[Commander Tamson]

 

Vocal Neal makes a good point. Where U Started.... I learned to drive on Portuguese Farm tracks  at the age of 10, in an old Auto Union  Car , slippy old red tracks,like ice when it rained, an dust bowls in the summer,sliding about was an everyday ting. When we moved to Englans i was 18ish and found the nice roads boring, no fun unless you drove fast,then i got nicked many times.

Hey Ace! I lived in Cascais, just outside Lisbon, for 8 years. Found that most Portuguese drivers still drive exactly as you describe LoL


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No doubt You found the Food heres as bad as the Driving after Lisboa area ,im from Sintra.  Oh for some Atlantic Fish on the Barbie.

Or Seabass baked in salt! And what about those Portuguese red wines and Vino Verdes


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[WarpSpeed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6yEO8U0cWBs

I don't know I see a lot of problems with that video, different cars, weight, tire size and compound, speed seemingly, It isn't as simple as that demo and there was no need to lock up the tires and leave them locked without releasing them to roll again it that was exaggerated for the purposes of the demo.The camera angles seem to make some things like speed and there are so many other variables it's too many to argue.

[Spoonman]

Seems to me with or without the braking distance is about the same.

[WarpSpeed]

   Yeah and they are obviously different sizes and weights.

Edited December 4, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[Ace of Pop]

 Right ones got a dam good Sump Guard though...

[NomadJoe]

In my Honda CBR650f users manual:

 

● ABS does not reduce braking distance. In 

certain circumstances, ABS may result in a 

longer stopping distance.

 

http://www.hondampe.com.au/docs/owning_a_honda/owners_manuals/motorcycles/32MJEB000_CBR650F%2014%20OM.pdf

[Kwasaki]

 

In my Honda CBR650f users manual:

 

● ABS does not reduce braking distance. In 

certain circumstances, ABS may result in a 

longer stopping distance.

 

http://www.hondampe.com.au/docs/owning_a_honda/owners_manuals/motorcycles/32MJEB000_CBR650F%2014%20OM.pdf

 

 

Cars and motorbike with ABS is totally different or maybe alien as Thais would say.

[NomadJoe]

 

 

In my Honda CBR650f users manual:

 

● ABS does not reduce braking distance. In 

certain circumstances, ABS may result in a 

longer stopping distance.

 

http://www.hondampe.com.au/docs/owning_a_honda/owners_manuals/motorcycles/32MJEB000_CBR650F%2014%20OM.pdf

 

 

Cars and motorbike with ABS is totally different or maybe alien as Thais would say.

 

 

 

Do cars with ABS stop more quickly than cars without?
Perhaps, but that's not the main purpose of ABS. It is a system designed to help you maintain control of the vehicle during emergency braking situations, not necessarily make the car stop more quickly. ABS may shorten stopping distances on wet or slippery roads and most systems may shorten stopping distances on dry roads. On very soft surfaces, such as gravel or unpacked snow, ABS may actually lengthen stopping distances. In wet or icy conditions, you should still make sure you drive carefully, always keep a safe distance behind the vehicle in front of you, and maintain a speed consistent with the road conditions.

 

Sounds same same, not different to me. :)

 

 

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/equipment/absbrakes/page1-doom-04-26-2013.html

[J4M35]

Some good posts here.

 

VocalNeal makes a good point on observation / anticipation, the vast majority of situations where emergency braking are required could be avoided altogether by hazard perception. However in the real world, driver concentration isn't always 100% and these situations come up.

 

As Warpspeed says, ABS emulates the effect of Cadence braking- but drivers with a lot of practice and experience can threshold brake which can stop a car faster than either. However drivers who can do this are vanishingly few in number, and whether they can do it consistently and effectively by reflex in the split second when the decision is made to hit the brakes, HARD, in an unexpected situation is another matter altogether.

 

So that leaves us with ABS. It’ll almost invariably stop the car faster with all but the top few percent of drivers, and allow them to maintain some control over the vehicle’s direction. It will also individually modulate the brakes on all four wheels independently which no driver, no matter how skilled or well-practiced, can do. It is literally a lifesaver.

 

One thing I will add is that having ABS does not preclude threshold braking. ABS will activate at a pre-set rate of tyre under-rotation so provided you stay within that limit ABS will not activate and you can threshold brake to your heart’s content. That is one of the reasons why I think ABS is always a benefit in a road car.  

[Kwasaki]

 

 

 

In my Honda CBR650f users manual:

 

● ABS does not reduce braking distance. In 

certain circumstances, ABS may result in a 

longer stopping distance.

 

http://www.hondampe.com.au/docs/owning_a_honda/owners_manuals/motorcycles/32MJEB000_CBR650F%2014%20OM.pdf

 

 

Cars and motorbike with ABS is totally different or maybe alien as Thais would say.

 

 

 

Do cars with ABS stop more quickly than cars without?
Perhaps, but that's not the main purpose of ABS. It is a system designed to help you maintain control of the vehicle during emergency braking situations, not necessarily make the car stop more quickly. ABS may shorten stopping distances on wet or slippery roads and most systems may shorten stopping distances on dry roads. On very soft surfaces, such as gravel or unpacked snow, ABS may actually lengthen stopping distances. In wet or icy conditions, you should still make sure you drive carefully, always keep a safe distance behind the vehicle in front of you, and maintain a speed consistent with the road conditions.

 

Sounds same same, not different to me.

 

 

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/equipment/absbrakes/page1-doom-04-26-2013.html

 

 

OK all I will say when you read about ABS on motorbikes it is different in some respects to cars, not same same.