1 dead, four people shot at Ramkhamhaeng University after clashes

[wolf5370]

so 5 dead now in total.

I'm really interested in all of TV opinions, what u guys think what will happen the next days.

I'm not sure. Before I thought it will be quiet till 5th of December. But well, we saw today and last night it's not.

Now I am confused, if the red's are gone or not. Well....the stadium is empty, but I think and heard there are still many around.

I THINK tonight will be MORE trouble than yesterday....but for the next days, I've no ideas. What do you think?

5th will be quiet - that's pretty much a given. I think Suthep failed to achieve what was called for - if the called for strike goes nowhere I think there will be a second round after HM's birthday.

How nasty it will get will depend on provocateurs and the police/army response. The tear gas kept them at bay - but it was a high level (8) tear gas which is not usually used against civilians (it burns the skin rather than just tears the eyes and minor choking - been a lot of hospitalisations due to that today - Erawan reports 33 out of 46 injuries due to tear gas). Also rubber bullets were starting to be used (according to several reports - not seen any evidence, so maybe/maybe not? - but likely I'd say). I think if there is another hit more will come better prepared - more use of diggers, trucks and buses to remove razor wire and cement blocks with less danger from the gas. Once the barricades are down - it all depends on what orders have been given to the police and troops the other side and how carried away the demonstrators are by that point.

Strangely, if they find the PM has taken a flight out, then it may calm things - as it will be seen as a minor victory by Suthep's people. Not sure if that will stop the second wave though - I think not.

What's it they used to say during the war - early 40s? "It'll all be over by Christmas"

I think the best result for Suthep, though not what he wants, is an early new year election (or spring election with stone clad agreement from government to not re-raise the amnesty or senatorial bills).

I think the best result for Yingluck is that they all go home on the 4th and don't come back - although that's probably unlikely.

About the strike : if tomorrow my accountant is not at the office at 9 am and goes on strike (she already told me last week she wont be there for 2 days to go rally and i agreed to let her go) she will be fired..she has been warned yesterday and today.

And no i m not a pro thaksin, neither i pay her minimum wage (30k a month)

That is fair enough - you gave her time and made an agreement with her as your employee - it wills till cost you severance though, and the time and effort to find a replacement.

[Loles]

How long has to suffer Thailand for the sake of this idiot Chinese, thaksin ???

Pushed amnesty bill, puppet dumb sister, calling to ars-lickers to make mess and dirty.

How long has to suffer Thailand for the sake of these idiots politics ???

If during the next week every-one would wear white polo who don't want more war and idiot cases these red and yellow dirty lots would surprise so much.

[DocN]

I thought I saw a press release about rubber bullets being fired at crowds. Was this false? Looking for updates as need to bring wife back home if this thing escalates too much more.

There were reports of rubber bullets - but that has long since ceased as the crowds went away for the night. Use express ways where you can though - better safe than sorry.

I have not seen any evidence of rubber bullets actually being used despite that one report/tweet .... not enough injuries reported for them to have been used (is what I think) Lots of disinformation out there.

YL will be on the TV Pool soon (all channels)

Grrrrrrrrreat...my gf is p1$$ed already, because her soap is being interupted with nonesensical announcements all the time...

[jdinasia]

so 5 dead now in total.

I'm really interested in all of TV opinions, what u guys think what will happen the next days.

I'm not sure. Before I thought it will be quiet till 5th of December. But well, we saw today and last night it's not.

Now I am confused, if the red's are gone or not. Well....the stadium is empty, but I think and heard there are still many around.

I THINK tonight will be MORE trouble than yesterday....but for the next days, I've no ideas. What do you think?

5th will be quiet - that's pretty much a given. I think Suthep failed to achieve what was called for - if the called for strike goes nowhere I think there will be a second round after HM's birthday.

How nasty it will get will depend on provocateurs and the police/army response. The tear gas kept them at bay - but it was a high level (8) tear gas which is not usually used against civilians (it burns the skin rather than just tears the eyes and minor choking - been a lot of hospitalisations due to that today - Erawan reports 33 out of 46 injuries due to tear gas). Also rubber bullets were starting to be used (according to several reports - not seen any evidence, so maybe/maybe not? - but likely I'd say). I think if there is another hit more will come better prepared - more use of diggers, trucks and buses to remove razor wire and cement blocks with less danger from the gas. Once the barricades are down - it all depends on what orders have been given to the police and troops the other side and how carried away the demonstrators are by that point.

Strangely, if they find the PM has taken a flight out, then it may calm things - as it will be seen as a minor victory by Suthep's people. Not sure if that will stop the second wave though - I think not.

What's it they used to say during the war - early 40s? "It'll all be over by Christmas"

I think the best result for Suthep, though not what he wants, is an early new year election (or spring election with stone clad agreement from government to not re-raise the amnesty or senatorial bills).

I think the best result for Yingluck is that they all go home on the 4th and don't come back - although that's probably unlikely.

About the strike : if tomorrow my accountant is not at the office at 9 am and goes on strike (she already told me last week she wont be there for 2 days to go rally and i agreed to let her go) she will be fired..she has been warned yesterday and today.

And no i m not a pro thaksin, neither i pay her minimum wage (30k a month)

That is probably very good news for your accountant Labor laws in Thailand being what they are, severance packages are part of the deal! I hope she has been with you a long long time

Wolf--- I do not think that your "best result for Suthep" will be enough for him. YL is in BKK, as she just met with Suthep and the Generals.

BTW amongst the other fictional claims appears to be that protesters at the Gov't House complex used ping pong bombs ... another bogus claim (no injuries to the police) but there were several injuries from the teargas (more than just eyes/nose/throat injuries

[jdinasia]

Grrrrrrrrreat...my gf is p1$$ed already, because her soap is being interupted with nonesensical announcements all the time...

Cancelled for now ... the meeting was at the Narcotics Suppression bureau.. a few protesters made it into the compound and she left (from usually reliable tweets)

[wolf5370]

That is probably very good news for your accountant Labor laws in Thailand being what they are, severance packages are part of the deal! I hope she has been with you a long long time

Wolf--- I do not think that your "best result for Suthep" will be enough for him. YL is in BKK, as she just met with Suthep and the Generals.

BTW amongst the other fictional claims appears to be that protesters at the Gov't House complex used ping pong bombs ... another bogus claim (no injuries to the police) but there were several injuries from the teargas (more than just eyes/nose/throat injuries

Yes I agree JD, but maybe it will be enough for the majority of his supported to go home happy. As to the meeting, he said it was transparent but he did not offer a solution and that he has given 2 days to "return power to the people" whatever that means - got to hand it to him, however you love or hate him, the man has gonads of pure Lonsdaleite!

//Edit: Changed the balls matter from : wurtzite boron nitride to Lonsdaleite - on a whim

Edited December 1, 2013 by wolf5370

[AleG]

A rather loud explosion coming from Ramkamheng 20 minutes ago, a somewhat smaller one just now. Wonder what´s going on there.

[wolf5370]

A rather loud explosion coming from Ramkamheng 20 minutes ago, a somewhat smaller one just now. Wonder what´s going on there.

British Club are having a fireworks night (Bon Fire Night - Guy Fawkes) - could it be that?

[DocN]

Grrrrrrrrreat...my gf is p1$$ed already, because her soap is being interupted with nonesensical announcements all the time...

Cancelled for now ... the meeting was at the Narcotics Suppression bureau.. a few protesters made it into the compound and she left (from usually reliable tweets)

Thank god....hell knows no fury...and all that!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think that is because foreign residents also have a de-facto middle class lifestyle that is facilitated by a supply of cheap labor for all kinds of services. That's also why those same people opposed the minimum wage hike, which has been laughably low for far too long. It took a Red-leaning government to finally raise it, making good on their election promise.

Then those same middle class people (Thais and expats alike) call this minimum wage increase "a populist policy" (!), go on to dismiss the opinion of the poor as being uneducated or brainwashed, or bought, and even go on to say that the government isn't doing anything for the poor where it's plain to see the actions, which speak for themselves.

You can most definitely debate if certain 'populist' policies make the best economic sense (rice program, minimum wage, free basic healthcare) but these are very real achievements that virtually guarantee a TRT/PPP/PTP government to be voted back in.. ... unless.. the one-man-one-vote concept (a.k.a. democracy) is abandoned, which is what Suthep seems to be after. And what a certain type of foreign expat is after; they want to keep their neo-colonial lifestyle and cheap 'services' from the locals. The maid, the gardener, or the endless supply of affordable up-country girls in the entertainment venues. No different from the Thai middle classes, they share the same 'bubble of entitlement' that is based on exploitation and being blind to the aspirations of what they consider the lower classes.

Some of what you say is true - the problem was that the minimum wage was too low for too long (and we can't exactly blame 2 years of Dems for that one!). The worry people had was the same worry that the economist professors from several universities and many news columnists pointed out that raising it 100% so fast would just cause more harm than good to those very poor - this was borne out as any truthful person in the country will tell you, by two rounds of inflation (actually price fixed raises) : Firstly, the announcement, and again on the delivery. It was also promised to be an immediate fix - but that was so only for Bangkok and then phased for the poorer areas (work that one out if you can). It also, as expected, caused job losses and reduced hiring levels; and caused ripple up pay rises that hurt business (mostly SMEs). Many in the north still receive less than the minimum wage as they are not taxed and it is easy to get away with it. All in all, with the exception of very few items, everything is relatively more expensive now than before the election (note: I said relatively, that is against earnings).

The PTP also did away with free healthcare brought in by the Dems and returned to the old failed 30 baht system. Thaksin's government deserve the kudos for even looking at this and starting something - albeit badly managed and funded - but you can hardly laud the present government for it - they made it more expensive!

Your idea that we all are living like colonial generals surrounded by coolies waving peacock feathers is so far from reality its positively funny - you don't think perhaps its our (extended)Thai families we are concerned with rather than how much more we have to pay the scullery maid!

What really guarantees the re-election of TRT....PTP is two things: 1. A superb propaganda machine, and 2. lack of any real opposition.

PTP without the greedy Thaksin's lackeys would be a great party for change for the lower classes - as it is, it has failed the people that continue to vote for them. Imagine what good 2.2 tirillion baht could do for education, infrastructure that is useful like double track rail and canal dredging /re-instigation, health care, free medical for young and old and child birth, HiV/Aids prevention and treatment, drug rehab program, orphanages, mental health care, flood defences (canals would already be helping this!), and so on - high speed train slower and more expensive than a plane, anyone?

This is why I can not understand why the real Reds (not paid thugs - I mean the passionate ones up here in Red heartland that care about the policies promised and the idea that they are cared about) still stick up for the Thaksin cronies, when they should be yelling for a leadership shuffle and get some of those passionate and educated and/or smart people that actually do exist in the mix to the top slots - lets get some real changes that really help the people and not elite pockets (difference between Red and Yellow leadership? None - the future is Orange!)

Maybe it really is time for the reformation of the Farmers Union Party (sans the Marxist drivel). Maybe an election early in the year will give us just that!

Can I just say I'm by and large quite impressed with the more reasoned discussion on Thaivisa this time around. It almost seems like it gets better with every disastrous political event. Overall there seems a lot more balance in the opinions presented too, covering more of the spectrum.

Not that it matters, in the grand scheme of things, but still positive.

Edited December 1, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[jdinasia]

docn The new one that was on last night with all the Kawa product placement was good!.

YL aides say she will not appear on TV tonight. ... I am thinking a lst ditch effort maybe .... but who knows at this point.

[wolf5370]

From Twitter: Turdsak Numsakul ‏@bkkbase 35m

Police being told to put on their party clothes and get ready. Sounds like something is about to go down. cc @veen_NT @noppatjak

Maybe its not all over for the night

[AleG]

There has just been another very loud explosion coming from the area of the stadium...

[wolf5370]

There has just been another very loud explosion coming from the area of the stadium...

Did you see my reply #399 - could it be the Guy Fawkes party????

[DocN]

docn The new one that was on last night with all the Kawa product placement was good!.

YL aides say she will not appear on TV tonight. ... I am thinking a lst ditch effort maybe .... but who knows at this point.

I am not really paying attention, though the 2 main actresses seem to be quiet cute...

So it is good, she is not interupting.

Unless she resigns, I simply don't need to hear her anyways.

But I guess, we all just have to wait and see.

[AleG]

There has just been another very loud explosion coming from the area of the stadium...

Did you see my reply #399 - could it be the Guy Fawkes party????

Do Guy Fawkes parties consist of setting off loud explosions at random intervals?

There´s no fireworks in the air.

[aaacorp]

so 5 dead now in total.

I'm really interested in all of TV opinions, what u guys think what will happen the next days.

I'm not sure. Before I thought it will be quiet till 5th of December. But well, we saw today and last night it's not.

Now I am confused, if the red's are gone or not. Well....the stadium is empty, but I think and heard there are still many around.

I THINK tonight will be MORE trouble than yesterday....but for the next days, I've no ideas. What do you think?

5th will be quiet - that's pretty much a given. I think Suthep failed to achieve what was called for - if the called for strike goes nowhere I think there will be a second round after HM's birthday.

How nasty it will get will depend on provocateurs and the police/army response. The tear gas kept them at bay - but it was a high level (8) tear gas which is not usually used against civilians (it burns the skin rather than just tears the eyes and minor choking - been a lot of hospitalisations due to that today - Erawan reports 33 out of 46 injuries due to tear gas). Also rubber bullets were starting to be used (according to several reports - not seen any evidence, so maybe/maybe not? - but likely I'd say). I think if there is another hit more will come better prepared - more use of diggers, trucks and buses to remove razor wire and cement blocks with less danger from the gas. Once the barricades are down - it all depends on what orders have been given to the police and troops the other side and how carried away the demonstrators are by that point.

Strangely, if they find the PM has taken a flight out, then it may calm things - as it will be seen as a minor victory by Suthep's people. Not sure if that will stop the second wave though - I think not.

What's it they used to say during the war - early 40s? "It'll all be over by Christmas"

I think the best result for Suthep, though not what he wants, is an early new year election (or spring election with stone clad agreement from government to not re-raise the amnesty or senatorial bills).

I think the best result for Yingluck is that they all go home on the 4th and don't come back - although that's probably unlikely.

About the strike : if tomorrow my accountant is not at the office at 9 am and goes on strike (she already told me last week she wont be there for 2 days to go rally and i agreed to let her go) she will be fired..she has been warned yesterday and today.

And no i m not a pro thaksin, neither i pay her minimum wage (30k a month)

That is probably very good news for your accountant Labor laws in Thailand being what they are, severance packages are part of the deal! I hope she has been with you a long long time

Wolf--- I do not think that your "best result for Suthep" will be enough for him. YL is in BKK, as she just met with Suthep and the Generals.

BTW amongst the other fictional claims appears to be that protesters at the Gov't House complex used ping pong bombs ... another bogus claim (no injuries to the police) but there were several injuries from the teargas (more than just eyes/nose/throat injuries

If i was a bad farang i could say : No severance package as she has to made since thursday some bills and invoice for export and tmrw is last call to not lose a contract. I could also say that as i just gave an oral agreement she was missing without any real reason since last thursday. She is also in office for 3 months.

However she has been warned and as it seems the Suthep comedy is far from over i d rather find another accountant and pay severance

While employees who are terminated without valid cause as stipulated by law is entitled to receive severance pay, an employee can be dismissed without notice and severance pay if he -:

- intentionally or negligently causes the employer to suffer damage;

[tingtongteesood]

The Red shirt rioters are in effect the governments own personal geurrilla army who are being egged on to use violence against all and any dissenters who dislike the government. Is that legal in any country ? The entire PT party should be tried for war crimes against peaceful protestors. Most of them should have been locked up 3 years ago ! It's getting more and more like living in Sewetto every day.....

[brit1984]

^ peaceful protesters...?

[Marc0]

The Red shirt rioters are in effect the governments own personal geurrilla army who are being egged on to use violence against all and any dissenters who dislike the government. Is that legal in any country ? The entire PT party should be tried for war crimes against peaceful protestors. Most of them should have been locked up 3 years ago ! It's getting more and more like living in Sewetto every day.....

I live near the Stadium and the anti government looked so peaceful when they trashed that bus, so peacefully done...

[brit1984]

overthrowing the government by the FORCE of "peaceful" protest isn't going to achieve anything except setting up an inevitable re-run of the same mess next year

if the anti-government protesters want a real solution they should pressure the opposition party / parties to modernize and re-position themselves to win over the ~2 million swing of voters from the other side

it really shouldn't be that difficult if the government is as bad (and the electorate so cheap) as they say

[DGIE]

Is this not the day Suthep's and his followers victory day? Are they now celebrating?

Just asking

[DGIE]

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday ruled out the use of violence to tackle the protests.

[philw]

The Red shirt rioters are in effect the governments own personal geurrilla army who are being egged on to use violence against all and any dissenters who dislike the government. Is that legal in any country ? The entire PT party should be tried for war crimes against peaceful protestors. Most of them should have been locked up 3 years ago ! It's getting more and more like living in Sewetto every day.....

Er......what red shirt rioters ??

[chooka]

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday ruled out the use of violence to tackle the protests.

That's just not playing by the yellow shirt rules. If the reds refuse to use violence and only want a peaceful solution how on earth can this whole thing be blamed on them. People will start blaming Suthep and his yellow brigade for starting the demonstrations and causing this mess.

[brit1984]

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday ruled out the use of violence to tackle the protests.

That's just not playing by the yellow shirt rules. If the reds refuse to use violence and only want a peaceful solution how on earth can this whole thing be blamed on them. People will start blaming Suthep and his yellow brigade for starting the demonstrations and causing this mess.

the reds will blame the yellows and the yellows will blame the reds

everyone else will just cringe at the behaviour of the naughty kids

[connda]

I guess I won't be wearing any of my yellow or red shirts for the time being. I think I'll wear a nice grey sports shirt to going along with the Chiang Mai weather and the general mood in Thailand.

[metisdead]

Posts that were intended to derail the topic, off topic baiting posts, insulting posts, flame posts and replies have been removed during the past several hours. If your post has gone missing, is probably due to some of the reasons mentioned above.

[rebelplatoon]

So.....will the Government person that gave the order also stand trial later on? Or is that only for ex Dem MP's ?

[metisdead]

A post in violation of this forum rule has been removed:

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