Thailand's top brass to meet to seek 'way out' of crisis; death toll rises to 4

[webfact]

Top brass to meet to seek 'way out' of crisis; death toll rises to 4
By English News



BANGKOK, Dec 3 - Thailand's Supreme Commander said he will meet with the commanders of the three armed forces after the celebration of the king's birthday on December 5 to find a solution as the death toll from political unrest has risen to four with one hundred persons injured.

Air Force commander-in-chief Air Chief Marshal Prachin Chanthong said Supreme Commander Gen Thanasak Patimakorn will convene meeting of the armed forces chiefs to find way out of the crisis after December 5.

ACM Prachin expressed confidence that the situation will not escalate to bloodshed.

Army chief Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha pledged the army would not become involved in the political crisis as it must be solved by politics itself. He said the military will simply monitor the situation.

Meanwhile, Interior Minister Jarupong Ruangsuwan said he has instructed governors nationwide via video conference that work stoppages as urged by anti-government protesters are not allowed.

He said the governors will be central to receiving all information and passing it to the government and that they were instructed to prevent any clashes which may occur between pro- and anti-government groups.

In the latest development, the Public Health Ministry reported that the death toll from political unrest has so far risen to four as a soldier who was seriously injured in the clash at Ramkamhaeng University during the weekend succumbed to his wounds, while 256 persons were wounded since the protests turned violent in several areas. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-12-03

[uty6543]

I support what Suthep has is doing to get rid of a very corrupt group of politicians but the chance of getting a better system of democracy than is already in place seems unachievable given that it is the people in power that will always be corrupt if there is no will to stop them. He may want an honest government but I don't think there are enough politicians that want to give up their perks.

[bigbamboo]

I support what Suthep has is doing to get rid of a very corrupt group of politicians but the chance of getting a better system of democracy than is already in place seems unachievable given that it is the people in power that will always be corrupt if there is no will to stop them. He may want an honest government but I don't think there are enough politicians that want to give up their perks.

That's the problem.

The reason most Thais get involved in politics is because of the opportunities of power and corruption. It certainly isn't the salary or the wish to serve their country.

There may be a few honest politicians around but they like a retired Thai Chief of Police once said of the RTP if you're not prepared to be corrupt you simply don't get promoted.

[Loles]

suthep & honest government ???

I think to awake is required.

[kingstonkid]

I still think that the military is going to have to take an active role.

I agree that it cannot run the country on it's own, BUT, if you take the military as the head of a government of 6 major players made up of 2 PT 2 Dem and 2 scholars and judges then there is the ability to have a person cutting the BS and stopping things when they get political and not benefiting the country.

This could all be done in an open and fair way by the government being in camera all times that they meet and available to the people to ask questions.

Thaksin would be ruled not of the group along with anyone that was associated with hi by family or direct political lineage. AV would also be barred from the group as he is a polarizing face also.

All large political gatherings would be banned and punishable by incarceration for 10 years immediately upon being organized. Military to handle.

Let the country move on the way it is and let the [people int he group organize a better country. give them 6 months

Edited December 3, 2013 by kingstonkid

[wileycoyote]

I am afraid that this will not end peaceably

[indyuk]

I support what Suthep has is doing to get rid of a very corrupt group of politicians but the chance of getting a better system of democracy than is already in place seems unachievable given that it is the people in power that will always be corrupt if there is no will to stop them. He may want an honest government but I don't think there are enough politicians that want to give up their perks.

For some reason you seem to believe that you have more authority in this matter than the electorate that put PTP into office, Essentially, since we are British, the Suthep campaign is none of our business.

[pookiki]

One has to think that a coup was Suthep's endgame all along. Somchai and Samak tried to maintain order in much the same manner that Yingluck has but were forced to resign. The army didn't come to their aid. But when Abhisit and company were in trouble with the demonstrations, the politics came out of the barrel of a gun.

I certainly don't advocate any government using lethal force against its own people. I find it repugnant. But the reality of Thailand is that those who are to remain in power are willing to use such force or be aligned with the people who are. As the old saying goes: 'Nice guys finish last.'

Edited December 3, 2013 by pookiki

[metisdead]

A post containing link to Bangkok Post have been removed per forum rule. Other off topic posts have been removed as well.

[khunken]

I support what Suthep has is doing to get rid of a very corrupt group of politicians but the chance of getting a better system of democracy than is already in place seems unachievable given that it is the people in power that will always be corrupt if there is no will to stop them. He may want an honest government but I don't think there are enough politicians that want to give up their perks.

For some reason you seem to believe that you have more authority in this matter than the electorate that put PTP into office, Essentially, since we are British, the Suthep campaign is none of our business.

If it's none of your business then don't post and don't criticise someone else for posting their opinion. To repeat - opinion.

A fair number of the electorate are paid to vote, others are brainwashed and winning an election doesn't give absolute power to any government. PTP abused their power, not for the first time, by attempting to pass an amnesty bill that would have been disastrous for the country - all for one convict's absolution. In addition they have decided that they will ignore a senior court's judgement - a criminal act normally but not for those who see themselves above the law.

Suthep, while having the right goals, has gone too far but so has PTP under Thaksin's instructions. Both sides are responsible for the current mess and it's Thaksin's & Suthep's heads that need to be knocked together. I have a feeling that some saner heads are currently at work to give both sides a way out.

[h90]

I still think that the military is going to have to take an active role.

I agree that it cannot run the country on it's own, BUT, if you take the military as the head of a government of 6 major players made up of 2 PT 2 Dem and 2 scholars and judges then there is the ability to have a person cutting the BS and stopping things when they get political and not benefiting the country.

This could all be done in an open and fair way by the government being in camera all times that they meet and available to the people to ask questions.

Thaksin would be ruled not of the group along with anyone that was associated with hi by family or direct political lineage. AV would also be barred from the group as he is a polarizing face also.

All large political gatherings would be banned and punishable by incarceration for 10 years immediately upon being organized. Military to handle.

Let the country move on the way it is and let the [people int he group organize a better country. give them 6 months

I think better don't take 2 PT and 2 Dem.

People who weren't in these two parties.

[pookiki]

I support what Suthep has is doing to get rid of a very corrupt group of politicians but the chance of getting a better system of democracy than is already in place seems unachievable given that it is the people in power that will always be corrupt if there is no will to stop them. He may want an honest government but I don't think there are enough politicians that want to give up their perks.

For some reason you seem to believe that you have more authority in this matter than the electorate that put PTP into office, Essentially, since we are British, the Suthep campaign is none of our business.

If it's none of your business then don't post and don't criticise someone else for posting their opinion. To repeat - opinion.

A fair number of the electorate are paid to vote, others are brainwashed and winning an election doesn't give absolute power to any government. PTP abused their power, not for the first time, by attempting to pass an amnesty bill that would have been disastrous for the country - all for one convict's absolution. In addition they have decided that they will ignore a senior court's judgement - a criminal act normally but not for those who see themselves above the law.

Suthep, while having the right goals, has gone too far but so has PTP under Thaksin's instructions. Both sides are responsible for the current mess and it's Thaksin's & Suthep's heads that need to be knocked together. I have a feeling that some saner heads are currently at work to give both sides a way out.

While the PTP initially said that it believed that the Constitutional Court exceeded its power, I fail to see how the PTP ignored it. It could only ignore it by calling for an election of the Senate with all members subject to run for office. Since this never happened, whether the PTP ignored the court's order is a matter of speculation and conjecture. As for amnesties, they happen all the time but in most democracies are left to the sole jurisdiction of the executive branch. The fact of the matter is that PTP did a lot of damage among their own constituents by offering the amnesty because it covered Abhisit and Suthep. It would appear that Suthep views Thaksin as much as a threat outside the country as he would be in Thailand. And as Suthep has proven, you don't need to be outside Thailand to be a fugitive from justice. He has elevated himself to a status that he can choose to ignore warrants issued by the court.

[khunken]

I support what Suthep has is doing to get rid of a very corrupt group of politicians but the chance of getting a better system of democracy than is already in place seems unachievable given that it is the people in power that will always be corrupt if there is no will to stop them. He may want an honest government but I don't think there are enough politicians that want to give up their perks.

For some reason you seem to believe that you have more authority in this matter than the electorate that put PTP into office, Essentially, since we are British, the Suthep campaign is none of our business.

If it's none of your business then don't post and don't criticise someone else for posting their opinion. To repeat - opinion.

A fair number of the electorate are paid to vote, others are brainwashed and winning an election doesn't give absolute power to any government. PTP abused their power, not for the first time, by attempting to pass an amnesty bill that would have been disastrous for the country - all for one convict's absolution. In addition they have decided that they will ignore a senior court's judgement - a criminal act normally but not for those who see themselves above the law.

Suthep, while having the right goals, has gone too far but so has PTP under Thaksin's instructions. Both sides are responsible for the current mess and it's Thaksin's & Suthep's heads that need to be knocked together. I have a feeling that some saner heads are currently at work to give both sides a way out.

While the PTP initially said that it believed that the Constitutional Court exceeded its power, I fail to see how the PTP ignored it. It could only ignore it by calling for an election of the Senate with all members subject to run for office. Since this never happened, whether the PTP ignored the court's order is a matter of speculation and conjecture. As for amnesties, they happen all the time but in most democracies are left to the sole jurisdiction of the executive branch. The fact of the matter is that PTP did a lot of damage among their own constituents by offering the amnesty because it covered Abhisit and Suthep. It would appear that Suthep views Thaksin as much as a threat outside the country as he would be in Thailand. And as Suthep has proven, you don't need to be outside Thailand to be a fugitive from justice. He has elevated himself to a status that he can choose to ignore warrants issued by the court.

I used the wrong word - it should have been rejected not ignored. PTP always 'believes' the CC exceeds its power when judgements go against them. Rejecting a court's judgement is illegal but of course PTP have always put themselves above the law.

Suthep is not a fugitive from justice - he hasn't been arrested yet let alone convicted. He has not ignored any warrant for which he has to appear in court later this month. He has also answered a previous warrant concocted by the DSI/AG under PTP instructions for the 2010 riots.

It is not hard to see the damage Thaksin is doing outside the country - that's what Suthep is targeting. As I said, he has gone too far but he has a point of fighting anarchy with anarchy.

[cacruden]

While the PTP initially said that it believed that the Constitutional Court exceeded its power, I fail to see how the PTP ignored it. It could only ignore it by calling for an election of the Senate with all members subject to run for office. Since this never happened, whether the PTP ignored the court's order is a matter of speculation and conjecture. As for amnesties, they happen all the time but in most democracies are left to the sole jurisdiction of the executive branch. The fact of the matter is that PTP did a lot of damage among their own constituents by offering the amnesty because it covered Abhisit and Suthep. It would appear that Suthep views Thaksin as much as a threat outside the country as he would be in Thailand. And as Suthep has proven, you don't need to be outside Thailand to be a fugitive from justice. He has elevated himself to a status that he can choose to ignore warrants issued by the court.

I used the wrong word - it should have been rejected not ignored. PTP always 'believes' the CC exceeds its power when judgements go against them. Rejecting a court's judgement is illegal but of course PTP have always put themselves above the law.

Suthep is not a fugitive from justice - he hasn't been arrested yet let alone convicted. He has not ignored any warrant for which he has to appear in court later this month. He has also answered a previous warrant concocted by the DSI/AG under PTP instructions for the 2010 riots.

It is not hard to see the damage Thaksin is doing outside the country - that's what Suthep is targeting. As I said, he has gone too far but he has a point of fighting anarchy with anarchy.

Where in the law does it state that voicing one's opinion in public is against the law. Typically you have to take "action" to violate the law - like giving instructions to ignore the opinion of the law.... It never got that far.... up until they start the process of electing the senators it is all just hot air - just what politicians do.

Not a big fan about charging Abhisit/Suthep with murder - gut feeling is it is political. Not that I don't think that Suthep would not give the order to use live ammo on red protesters, but that there has been no evidence made public as such. I hold Abhisit with more respect though, I don't think he would order the use of lime ammo on protesters.

There should never be amnesty - and all previous amnesty should be stripped from those that it protects. If you can tear up constitutions, you can definitely tear up lesser documents such as amnesties. BTW, anyone know if the amnesty is in the 2007 constitution or separate - would be interesting if the coup overthrowing that constitution would open up the amnesty issue as well.

Trying to overthrow the government does violate Section 68 of the constitution.... and the it is very clear that laying siege to government offices are covered by the Insurrection laws.... so there should be no amnesty there as well.

Amnesty only encourages further bad behaviour on all sides.

Edited December 3, 2013 by cacruden

[ggold]

I support what Suthep has is doing to get rid of a very corrupt group of politicians but the chance of getting a better system of democracy than is already in place seems unachievable given that it is the people in power that will always be corrupt if there is no will to stop them. He may want an honest government but I don't think there are enough politicians that want to give up their perks.

For some reason you seem to believe that you have more authority in this matter than the electorate that put PTP into office, Essentially, since we are British, the Suthep campaign is none of our business.

If it's none of your business then don't post and don't criticise someone else for posting their opinion. To repeat - opinion.

A fair number of the electorate are paid to vote, others are brainwashed and winning an election doesn't give absolute power to any government. PTP abused their power, not for the first time, by attempting to pass an amnesty bill that would have been disastrous for the country - all for one convict's absolution. In addition they have decided that they will ignore a senior court's judgement - a criminal act normally but not for those who see themselves above the law.

Suthep, while having the right goals, has gone too far but so has PTP under Thaksin's instructions. Both sides are responsible for the current mess and it's Thaksin's & Suthep's heads that need to be knocked together. I have a feeling that some saner heads are currently at work to give both sides a way out.

While the PTP initially said that it believed that the Constitutional Court exceeded its power, I fail to see how the PTP ignored it. It could only ignore it by calling for an election of the Senate with all members subject to run for office. Since this never happened, whether the PTP ignored the court's order is a matter of speculation and conjecture. As for amnesties, they happen all the time but in most democracies are left to the sole jurisdiction of the executive branch. The fact of the matter is that PTP did a lot of damage among their own constituents by offering the amnesty because it covered Abhisit and Suthep. It would appear that Suthep views Thaksin as much as a threat outside the country as he would be in Thailand. And as Suthep has proven, you don't need to be outside Thailand to be a fugitive from justice. He has elevated himself to a status that he can choose to ignore warrants issued by the court.

I think you will find that PTP initially rejected the constitutional courts ruling, not recognising its authority, until a couple days ago when they rushed to accept the courts ruling! This is not a matter of speculation, it is well documented.

[cacruden]

Rejecting is not violating. They rejected the authority of the court in that manner, but they never gave orders to start electing the senators or planning it. People reject what courts decide all the time, but then settle -- you just don't do it inside the courtroom.

[cacruden]

If you do it in the courtroom it is a lesser charge of contempt of court and you go to jail usually until you are willing to come back and appoligize to the court.

[cacruden]

Courts are a branch of government, if you're arguing that rejecting a court's decision - without taking action to violate the court's decision (i.e. electing senators) then there should be a lot of people in jail for rejecting any one of the branches of government.

[whybother]

One has to think that a coup was Suthep's endgame all along. Somchai and Samak tried to maintain order in much the same manner that Yingluck has but were forced to resign. The army didn't come to their aid. But when Abhisit and company were in trouble with the demonstrations, the politics came out of the barrel of a gun.

 

I certainly don't advocate any government using lethal force against its own people. I find it repugnant. But the reality of Thailand is that those who are to remain in power are willing to use such force or be aligned with the people who are. As the old saying goes: 'Nice guys finish last.'

I think you need to check out why Samak and Somchai had to resign. It had nothing to do with the army not helping them.

Sent from my phone ...

[pookiki]

While the PTP initially said that it believed that the Constitutional Court exceeded its power, I fail to see how the PTP ignored it. It could only ignore it by calling for an election of the Senate with all members subject to run for office. Since this never happened, whether the PTP ignored the court's order is a matter of speculation and conjecture. As for amnesties, they happen all the time but in most democracies are left to the sole jurisdiction of the executive branch. The fact of the matter is that PTP did a lot of damage among their own constituents by offering the amnesty because it covered Abhisit and Suthep. It would appear that Suthep views Thaksin as much as a threat outside the country as he would be in Thailand. And as Suthep has proven, you don't need to be outside Thailand to be a fugitive from justice. He has elevated himself to a status that he can choose to ignore warrants issued by the court.

I used the wrong word - it should have been rejected not ignored. PTP always 'believes' the CC exceeds its power when judgements go against them. Rejecting a court's judgement is illegal but of course PTP have always put themselves above the law.

Suthep is not a fugitive from justice - he hasn't been arrested yet let alone convicted. He has not ignored any warrant for which he has to appear in court later this month. He has also answered a previous warrant concocted by the DSI/AG under PTP instructions for the 2010 riots.

It is not hard to see the damage Thaksin is doing outside the country - that's what Suthep is targeting. As I said, he has gone too far but he has a point of fighting anarchy with anarchy.

Where in the law does it state that voicing one's opinion in public is against the law. Typically you have to take "action" to violate the law - like giving instructions to ignore the opinion of the law.... It never got that far.... up until they start the process of electing the senators it is all just hot air - just what politicians do.

Not a big fan about charging Abhisit/Suthep with murder - gut feeling is it is political. Not that I don't think that Suthep would not give the order to use live ammo on red protesters, but that there has been no evidence made public as such. I hold Abhisit with more respect though, I don't think he would order the use of lime ammo on protesters.

There should never be amnesty - and all previous amnesty should be stripped from those that it protects. If you can tear up constitutions, you can definitely tear up lesser documents such as amnesties. BTW, anyone know if the amnesty is in the 2007 constitution or separate - would be interesting if the coup overthrowing that constitution would open up the amnesty issue as well.

Trying to overthrow the government does violate Section 68 of the constitution.... and the it is very clear that laying siege to government offices are covered by the Insurrection laws.... so there should be no amnesty there as well.

Amnesty only encourages further bad behaviour on all sides.

In principle, I can agree with you about 'most' amnesties - not all. But the bottom line is an amnesty 'illegal' under the current Constitution? Was there a legal challenge to the amnesty? It made it to the Senate before it was withdrawn so it is a moot point at this juncture. Argue as you may about the PTP, Suthep's plan to unilaterally impose a peoples' government disenfranchises all the people who participated in the last election and all the political parties currently in existence besides the PTP. Will the Democrats take a stand for democracy or support one man who is the self-appointed savior of Thailand?

[seajae]

The only way to clear this up is to have thaksins passport cancelled once and for all and to issue an international arrest warrant for him to be taken into custody and made to face the courts here with the other charges still awaiting his return. The ptp can no longer stall this and they must abide by it as it is the law, by not doing either they are accomplices to him and should also be held in custody until he returns. This would happen in any other country, this is absolute disregard for the laws of Thailand by the ptp officials and the pm plus the so called magistrates that keep giving them more time, 2 years so far, it bullshit.

[MickGC]

The only way to clear this up is to have thaksins passport cancelled once and for all and to issue an international arrest warrant for him to be taken into custody and made to face the courts here with the other charges still awaiting his return. The ptp can no longer stall this and they must abide by it as it is the law, by not doing either they are accomplices to him and should also be held in custody until he returns. This would happen in any other country, this is absolute disregard for the laws of Thailand by the ptp officials and the pm plus the so called magistrates that keep giving them more time, 2 years so far, it bullshit.

Give it a break mate. Take 2 aspirins and have a good nights sleep. You'll feel less bitter in the morning.

[cacruden]

The only way to clear this up is to have thaksins passport cancelled once and for all and to issue an international arrest warrant for him to be taken into custody and made to face the courts here with the other charges still awaiting his return. The ptp can no longer stall this and they must abide by it as it is the law, by not doing either they are accomplices to him and should also be held in custody until he returns. This would happen in any other country, this is absolute disregard for the laws of Thailand by the ptp officials and the pm plus the so called magistrates that keep giving them more time, 2 years so far, it bullshit.

Democrats did not want him back on in jail, if they did they would not have let him walk after his conviction. Interpol never did get a fugitive apprehension request - although they kept on saying they had contacted them. The only thing they wanted was him out of the country and in exile. Cancelling his passport was to keep him in one location to try and lower his profile.

Sure he should be brought back, passport revoked etc.... but that might be a two edged sword.... If I remember right he only has to serve two years - and I am sure that his sister can find a nice cushy cell for him..... I am surprised they did not go this route after YL was elected.... he would be out now and in Thailand.

[pookiki]

One has to think that a coup was Suthep's endgame all along. Somchai and Samak tried to maintain order in much the same manner that Yingluck has but were forced to resign. The army didn't come to their aid. But when Abhisit and company were in trouble with the demonstrations, the politics came out of the barrel of a gun.

I certainly don't advocate any government using lethal force against its own people. I find it repugnant. But the reality of Thailand is that those who are to remain in power are willing to use such force or be aligned with the people who are. As the old saying goes: 'Nice guys finish last.'

I think you need to check out why Samak and Somchai had to resign. It had nothing to do with the army not helping them.

Sent from my phone ...

OK, my reference to Samak is off-base. He committed the heinous crime of having a cooking show. As for Somchai, didn't his resignation flow from the use of tear gas on the PAD? I am pretty sure this is the case. At any rate, the point I am trying to make is that there does not appear to be any accepted method by police for non-lethal 'crowd control' measures in Thailand as generally used by other democracies. When lethal force was used in 2010, whose decision was it to use live ammo? In the future, will any government just open the gates every time there is a protest? At what point is the military willing to step in to protect the public welfare and for whom? Lastly, will the current occupation of government offices be tolerated no matter what the social and economic costs?

Edited December 3, 2013 by pookiki

[Thai at Heart]

One has to think that a coup was Suthep's endgame all along. Somchai and Samak tried to maintain order in much the same manner that Yingluck has but were forced to resign. The army didn't come to their aid. But when Abhisit and company were in trouble with the demonstrations, the politics came out of the barrel of a gun.

I certainly don't advocate any government using lethal force against its own people. I find it repugnant. But the reality of Thailand is that those who are to remain in power are willing to use such force or be aligned with the people who are. As the old saying goes: 'Nice guys finish last.'

Of course a coup was where he was heading. He is hoping that ptp will do anything to avoid one,,hence the council.

Ptp know that they lose all control completely if there is a coup.

[whybother]

The only way to clear this up is to have thaksins passport cancelled once and for all and to issue an international arrest warrant for him to be taken into custody and made to face the courts here with the other charges still awaiting his return. The ptp can no longer stall this and they must abide by it as it is the law, by not doing either they are accomplices to him and should also be held in custody until he returns. This would happen in any other country, this is absolute disregard for the laws of Thailand by the ptp officials and the pm plus the so called magistrates that keep giving them more time, 2 years so far, it bullshit.

 

Democrats did not want him back on in jail, if they did they would not have let him walk after his conviction.  Interpol never did get a fugitive apprehension request - although they kept on saying they had contacted them.  The only thing they wanted was him out of the country and in exile.  Cancelling his passport was to keep him in one location to try and lower his profile.  

 

Sure he should be brought back, passport revoked etc.... but that might be a two edged sword....  If I remember right he only has to serve two years - and I am sure that his sister can find a nice cushy cell for him.....    I am surprised they did not go this route after YL was elected.... he would be out now and in Thailand.

The PPP were in power when Thaksin was given permission by the courts while on bail to go to the Olympics. That was also before he was convicted.

He currently only has a two year sentence, but there are about 10 other charges awaiting his presence to continue through the courts (none related to 2010).

Sent from my phone ...

[whybother]

 

One has to think that a coup was Suthep's endgame all along. Somchai and Samak tried to maintain order in much the same manner that Yingluck has but were forced to resign. The army didn't come to their aid. But when Abhisit and company were in trouble with the demonstrations, the politics came out of the barrel of a gun.

 

I certainly don't advocate any government using lethal force against its own people. I find it repugnant. But the reality of Thailand is that those who are to remain in power are willing to use such force or be aligned with the people who are. As the old saying goes: 'Nice guys finish last.'

I think you need to check out why Samak and Somchai had to resign. It had nothing to do with the army not helping them.

Sent from my phone ...

 

 

OK, my reference to Samak is off-base. He committed the heinous crime of having a cooking show. As for Somchai, didn't his resignation flow from the use of tear gas on the PAD? I am pretty sure this is the case. At any rate, the point I am trying to make is that there does not appear to be any accepted method by police for non-lethal 'crowd control' measures in Thailand as generally used by other democracies. When lethal force was used in 2010, whose decision was it to use live ammo? In the future, will any government just open the gates every time there is a protest? At what point is the military willing to step in to protect the public welfare and for whom? Lastly, will the current occupation of government offices be tolerated no matter what the social and economic costs?

 

No both references were off base. Mine too actually. Neither resigned. Samak was forced out because he got paid for a second job, and lied about it court. Somchai was banned with the other PPP executives for electoral fraud. Neither were related to the protests at the time.

Non-lethal crowd control tactics are used when the protesters use non-lethal tactics. You don't think the US or UK police would be out there armed to the teeth if protesters were shooting and throwing grenades at them? They would also be better armed and trained than the Thai army was in 2010.

The crowd control tactics used in the last few days is pretty normal for any country. Check out some of G20 protests.

I actually think opening the gates was an excellent idea in this case because the protesters are just interested in occupation, and not trashing the place like 2008.

Sent from my phone ...

[pookiki]

One has to think that a coup was Suthep's endgame all along. Somchai and Samak tried to maintain order in much the same manner that Yingluck has but were forced to resign. The army didn't come to their aid. But when Abhisit and company were in trouble with the demonstrations, the politics came out of the barrel of a gun.

I certainly don't advocate any government using lethal force against its own people. I find it repugnant. But the reality of Thailand is that those who are to remain in power are willing to use such force or be aligned with the people who are. As the old saying goes: 'Nice guys finish last.'

I think you need to check out why Samak and Somchai had to resign. It had nothing to do with the army not helping them.

Sent from my phone ...

OK, my reference to Samak is off-base. He committed the heinous crime of having a cooking show. As for Somchai, didn't his resignation flow from the use of tear gas on the PAD? I am pretty sure this is the case. At any rate, the point I am trying to make is that there does not appear to be any accepted method by police for non-lethal 'crowd control' measures in Thailand as generally used by other democracies. When lethal force was used in 2010, whose decision was it to use live ammo? In the future, will any government just open the gates every time there is a protest? At what point is the military willing to step in to protect the public welfare and for whom? Lastly, will the current occupation of government offices be tolerated no matter what the social and economic costs?

No both references were off base. Mine too actually. Neither resigned. Samak was forced out because he got paid for a second job, and lied about it court. Somchai was banned with the other PPP executives for electoral fraud. Neither were related to the protests at the time.

Non-lethal crowd control tactics are used when the protesters use non-lethal tactics. You don't think the US or UK police would be out there armed to the teeth if protesters were shooting and throwing grenades at them? They would also be better armed and trained than the Thai army was in 2010.

The crowd control tactics used in the last few days is pretty normal for any country. Check out some of G20 protests.

I actually think opening the gates was an excellent idea in this case because the protesters are just interested in occupation, and not trashing the place like 2008.

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Yes, I agree that the tactics for crowd control in the past few days are normal for most countries. Nonetheless, they were condemned by the army and other organizations in Thailand. The occupation of government offices, and the airport in the past, are a direct interference in the ability of the government to carry out their operations and serves to intimidate those civil servants who do want to work. Call for a strike, fine. Then the civil servants have a choice. I don't know of any Western country that would have tolerated the occupation of its airports as a matter of national security. If the police do not have enough people to protect the public's interests whose job is it to support them? In Thailand, the military in an 'independent' branch of government that picks and chooses who it will support and when it will decide to be the government itself. Nineteen coups in 80 years. About one every four years. Thailand is overdue for another, right? One last thing, there were reports of the demonstrators firing on police by several news organizations. There is no doubt in my mind that if the police had continued to defend the police headquarters and Government House that the violence would have escalated. Whether opening the gates was a good tactic remains to be seen. It's not over, yet.