Get used to the stench - it will get worse: Thai opinion

[webfact]

STOPPAGE TIME
Get used to the stench - it will get worse
Tulsathit Taptim

BANGKOK: -- In "Water for Elephants", there's a scene where the hero, who has just joined a circus, walks into what must be a very stinky area. "How do you stand that smell?" he asks the guy working there. The worker looks at him, genuinely surprised. "What smell?" he enquires.

Thai politics has been emanating foul odour for quite some time, which means the excitement and tragic events of the past few weeks is anything but extraordinary. The role reversal, the gut-wrenching hypocrisy and depressing deja vu are simply something inevitable. The only real headline is that our misery is growing and the sad ironies are getting out of hand.

Before we all get so completely used to the sorry state of affairs that it won't matter any more, here's a reminder of what Thailand has got in store still, even after some positive, surreal developments yesterday. Most issues in the list are legal or constitutional, and each is rooted in politicians' tendency to cherish loopholes rather than find true common values for the nation.

1. An absolute "amnesty paradox". Should anyone in future attempt to absolve "offences related to the political crisis", he or she must be out of his or her mind. Should Suthep Thaugsuban be included in a new amnesty? If yes, why is a government that advocates an amnesty that would possibly absolve him, accusing him of treason? If no, why did the same government try to absolve him to begin with?

No matter how "mad" Suthep seems to be in the eyes of his critics, his action is unarguably a product of the political crisis, which provided ground for a blanket absolution through the House-approved, Senate-vetoed amnesty bill.

That's just an example. This amnesty issue is already a messy ball of string and will be even more so after the events of the past few days.

2. Soul-searching in vicious circles. We are nowhere near being able to decide who is the boss or, to be more exact, "when" the "who" should be the boss. When the balance of power at a corporation goes wrong, the worst that can happen is confusion that runs the firm into the ground. But when a country has its Parliament and Constitutional Court at each other's throat, the damage is widespread, hard to fix and keeps feeding on itself.

Pheu Thai's refusal to accept the Constitutional Court's ruling against a charter amendment on how the Senate is formed could have far-reaching repercussions. That's simply because the court has issued verdicts on many other cases, not least its infamous 2001 acquittal of Thaksin Shinawatra on charges he concealed shares.

The argument that the share case was different must be used carefully, especially if Pheu Thai claims that the court a few days ago was "seizing power" from the people or that the court did not respect the judgement of the people. Thaksin was elected, just as the House of Representatives was elected. If the court was not supposed to rule on the House's behaviour, it should not have taken on Thaksin in 2001 either.

The argument that this Constitutional Court still contains traces of military dictatorship - unlike the one that took up the share case - begs the question, what else contains traces of dictatorship? Is the whole Parliament, set up through a Constitution installed under coup-makers, illegitimate, too? Is the Bt2-trillion borrowing plan illegal because it has been passed by a Parliament formed under a "dictatorial" Constitution?

3. Impeachment headache.

The National Counter-Corruption Commission is set to consider whether or not to indict government MPs. With the current process of indictment and impeachment subject to political scrutiny, those targeted can always proclaim their innocence and blame a conspiracy against them. If they directly defied impeachment and went about passing major tax laws or another massive government borrowing bill, Thailand's legal and constitutional trouble would only get muddier.

4. Absurdity of charter reform. Political rivals have turned the sacred issue of a constitutional update into a chicken-and-egg matter. If Parliament, formed through an "unacceptable, military-installed" Constitution, passed an amendment bill, is that in effect a bill passed under an unacceptable, military-installed process?

5. The ultimate, unanswerable question. Who will have the final say on all these issues? Parliament, of course, Pheu Thai insists. The Constitutional Court, the Democrats say. And both sides claim to be backed by the masses.

6. House dissolution and a new election will just pump more oxygen into the life support system. A Pheu Thai return to power will bring back the same old problems, while a Democrat government will face new ones, sort of. In the latter scenario, protesters might take to the streets to demand "justice" for the "Rajprasong deaths". But, assuming the Democrats and their allies are "in control" of Parliament, who would the red shirts be able to turn to, since they have virtually renounced the present "justice system"?

7. More nasty role reversals. The violence of the past few days means that more people might seek amnesty along the road. An extreme though unlikely scenario is a Democrat government flexing its parliamentary muscles to pass its own amnesty bill.

8. The real bad news. The above list includes things that are easily predictable. Certainly, there is more to come that we don't know about. Thai crises have always featured unpleasant surprises that keep adding to the mess. We call something a mess because we are not quite sure what's wrong with it. When we get one that keeps feeding on itself, the best we can do is hope to get used to it one day.


-- The Nation 2013-12-04

[Thait Spot]

This is a secret Thai recipe for politique flambée

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[noitom]

Tulsathit makes a strong case that Thailand not fixable and will evolve either to a dictatorship or protracted civil war. It is what it is. Too bad for the long hard road ahead.

[AryanicAristocrat]

Time for Thailand to be colonised! America, China are you guys listening?

[Thai at Heart]

Time for Thailand to be colonised! America, China are you guys listening?

I go with the Brits. A parliamentary monarchy set up without a coup for how many hundred years?

Boris can be the local man on the ground. Is all good for business with China. Good speaking terms with Burma, Malaysia and Singapore.

Hey this isn't a bad idea. One problem. We don't have a navy any more since Gordon spent all the money. Darn it.

[Bender]

Well a good begining, they should start to ask themself:

If finally the problem is not in fact deeply linked, for century, to the thai society, to their mentality, to their value, to their thainess, their psyche,

ine one word: their identity!

Because if as a nation they miserably fail, its because as citizen, the thai people were the parasite elements!

And i am sad to add, there is no divine savior...

[Thai at Heart]

Well a good begining, they should start to ask themself:

If finally the problem is not in fact deeply linked, for century, to the thai society, to their mentality, to their value, to their thainess, their psyche,

ine one word: their identity!

Because if as a nation they miserably fail, its because as citizen, the thai people were the parasite elements!

And i am sad to add, there is no divine savior...

Well what to do if your very identity "Thainess" is the problem? If all that pretence and avoidance of confrontation leads to expediency which builds up to an explosion, when it all gets too unfair.

Oh me oh my. What shall we do?

Unravel thainess? Cronyism, nepotism, and corruption all gone?

Please no. What will happen to Nana?

[Bender]

Well a good begining, they should start to ask themself:

If finally the problem is not in fact deeply linked, for century, to the thai society, to their mentality, to their value, to their thainess, their psyche,

ine one word: their identity!

Because if as a nation they miserably fail, its because as citizen, the thai people were the parasite elements!

And i am sad to add, there is no divine savior...

Well what to do if your very identity "Thainess" is the problem? If all that pretence and avoidance of confrontation leads to expediency which builds up to an explosion, when it all gets too unfair.

Oh me oh my. What shall we do?

Unravel thainess? Cronyism, nepotism, and corruption all gone?

Please no. What will happen to Nana?

actually i define thainess, how thai people they do interact to each other, how they do talk, in a large way how they do act inside the thai society..... ETC ETC

Its a set of rule that describe how to behave.

By example, if the rule say: shut up the f###, stay at your place, you are not allowed to criticize, you have to....

well its an open door for century of abuse.

ps: NANA? I guess you are not talking about Emile Zola novel, because with your color skin you can not be that educated...

[BirdsandBooze]

Time for Thailand to be colonised! America, China are you guys listening?

Nobody wants it as there is nothing worth having. Which is why it wasn't colonised along with it's neighbours.

[Tywais]

A post bringing the King into a political discussion has been removed.

[DocN]

A system that doesn't allow questioning or -god forbid- criticizing superiors (teachers, bosses etc.), where no open discourse can ever be held, that has an "anti- defamation- law" and another law, that prohibits freedom of speech, expression and opinion per se, that has a hierarchy- based social contract, where the "inferior" bow -no questions asked- to the "superior" and where a majority of the people actually like corruption, if they benefit from it, can never be "democratic"! Democracy is bound to fail in a system like that!

...and that is just the first of many ,many problems!

[jpeg]

Well a good begining, they should start to ask themself:

If finally the problem is not in fact deeply linked, for century, to the thai society, to their mentality, to their value, to their thainess, their psyche,

ine one word: their identity!

Because if as a nation they miserably fail, its because as citizen, the thai people were the parasite elements!

And i am sad to add, there is no divine savior...

A Thai businessman told me that corruption was 'in the blood' here. So, yes, I believe you're right.

[impulse]

Hate to say it, but the few Asian economies doing great started with a dictator at the helm: Singapore, Taiwan and S Korea.

Someone has to control access to the trough, instead of this free-for-all where everyone goes after their piece of the pie (along with everyone else's piece) with nobody focusing on increasing the total size of the pie.

Yeah, they got rich, and their families are set for generations. But they grew the total size of the pie, and in doing so, paved the way for prosperity and democracy.

Democracy, which BTW, isn't a very efficient form of government, and requires groundwork -before it's adopted- in order to make it work.

I'm not saying Thaksin's the guy. And I'm not saying it has to be a single guy. But somebody needs to set limits on individual corruption and focus on increasing the size of the economy, instead of letting everybody scrap it out in the gutters and backrooms over who gets what slice.

Whoever it is, ain't gonna be popular with a lot of powerful people and even more wannabees.

Edited December 4, 2013 by impulse

[Thai at Heart]

Well a good begining, they should start to ask themself:

If finally the problem is not in fact deeply linked, for century, to the thai society, to their mentality, to their value, to their thainess, their psyche,

ine one word: their identity!

Because if as a nation they miserably fail, its because as citizen, the thai people were the parasite elements!

And i am sad to add, there is no divine savior...

Well what to do if your very identity "Thainess" is the problem? If all that pretence and avoidance of confrontation leads to expediency which builds up to an explosion, when it all gets too unfair.

Oh me oh my. What shall we do?

Unravel thainess? Cronyism, nepotism, and corruption all gone?

Please no. What will happen to Nana?

actually i define thainess, how thai people they do interact to each other, how they do talk, in a large way how they do act inside the thai society..... ETC ETC

Its a set of rule that describe how to behave.

By example, if the rule say: shut up the f###, stay at your place, you are not allowed to criticize, you have to....

well its an open door for century of abuse.

ps: NANA? I guess you are not talking about Emile Zola novel, because with your color skin you can not be that educated...

Thainess doesn't define an inability to challenge authority which opens the ability for people to be corrupt? Thainess doesn't keep the little man in place and deferent to his elders and supposed betters.

That lovely submissive wait from women to men in traditional dance means what? Or from praii to pooyai means what. Thainess defines a lot more than how you speak to someone.

And my point about Nana, is that people are inherently selfish, so if you did away with all the corruption, places like nana would probably be far less common. As for the color of my skin, well, that's another problem in thainess.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[phantomfiddler]

Wasn,t Thailand a great place before the Shin hit the fan ? This place is heading towards a divide too great to be sorted without major bloodshed unless someone cleans the fan. Obama is doing the same thing in America, taking the money off the people who work and giving it to the people who are too idle, and making it look like he personally is giving the money out. Disgusting

[Greer]

Time for Thailand to be colonised! America, China are you guys listening?

Oh good idea...NOT... the yanks with their screwed "democracy" and overbearing big-brother police state mentality, or the Chinese who are even worse and ignorant of human rights to boot...

Britain would be a MUCH better option - but of course none of them are an "option" at all, as we have an independent and proud nation, even though the politics is in the gutter...

Maybe the better option would be to declare the country a true monarchy again.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Greer

[Rob8891]

Sometimes when the patient is ill, medical or surgical procedures are necessary, with inherent short-term side effects, are necessary to save the patient's life. It takes guts to endure the pain for a while, until life can become worthwhile again, but in the end, the infection is overcome, or the diseased part is removed.

Just sayin'

[Bender]

Well a good begining, they should start to ask themself:

If finally the problem is not in fact deeply linked, for century, to the thai society, to their mentality, to their value, to their thainess, their psyche,

ine one word: their identity!

Because if as a nation they miserably fail, its because as citizen, the thai people were the parasite elements!

And i am sad to add, there is no divine savior...

Well what to do if your very identity "Thainess" is the problem? If all that pretence and avoidance of confrontation leads to expediency which builds up to an explosion, when it all gets too unfair.

Oh me oh my. What shall we do?

Unravel thainess? Cronyism, nepotism, and corruption all gone?

Please no. What will happen to Nana?

actually i define thainess, how thai people they do interact to each other, how they do talk, in a large way how they do act inside the thai society..... ETC ETC

Its a set of rule that describe how to behave.

By example, if the rule say: shut up the f###, stay at your place, you are not allowed to criticize, you have to....

well its an open door for century of abuse.

ps: NANA? I guess you are not talking about Emile Zola novel, because with your color skin you can not be that educated...

Thainess doesn't define an inability to challenge authority which opens the ability for people to be corrupt? Thainess doesn't keep the little man in place and deferent to his elders and supposed betters.

That lovely submissive wait from women to men in traditional dance means what? Or from praii to pooyai means what. Thainess defines a lot more than how you speak to someone.

And my point about Nana, is that people are inherently selfish, so if you did away with all the corruption, places like nana would probably be far less common. As for the color of my skin, well, that's another problem in thainess.

Just read your reply, so here food for thought:

Thainess has nothing to do with ability or action, its a state, its a quality.

Inability is just a horrible symptom of this ugly disease: the thainess.

Thainess is for my part only one element or the wrap of their dismiss.

Let have a deeper look, this country doesnt have a problem with 2 guy or 2 colors, but mostly with 63 millions people,

pure product of the thai society. Indeed a weak brain can not challenge lie, a weak brain with a corrupted soul or wrong

value is the perfect recipe for the disaster.

So how would you dumb down a whole nation?

I will do it throught education, instead of teaching them common sense, i will brainwash them... to keep them ineffecient.

How would you do to keep them quiet?

Well Budhism is the perfect tool to poison their soul... you stay at your place, wait for your next life.

How would you remove any self estim?

See above and add some nationalism. You have to lay down for your country, if you complain you are not thai,

you dont love your home...so never criticize.

The Nation extract the love for themself and put in on the nation and his institution.

After no wonder they all end up with low value, weird mentality and identity disorder.

About Nana, There is no such a thing of dna Selfish-ness.

Nana does exist because of the greed, lack of value, lack of emphathie, because it was welcome within this "hateful" thai society.

[Thai at Heart]

Well a good begining, they should start to ask themself:

If finally the problem is not in fact deeply linked, for century, to the thai society, to their mentality, to their value, to their thainess, their psyche,

ine one word: their identity!

Because if as a nation they miserably fail, its because as citizen, the thai people were the parasite elements!

And i am sad to add, there is no divine savior...

Well what to do if your very identity "Thainess" is the problem? If all that pretence and avoidance of confrontation leads to expediency which builds up to an explosion, when it all gets too unfair.

Oh me oh my. What shall we do?

Unravel thainess? Cronyism, nepotism, and corruption all gone?

Please no. What will happen to Nana?

actually i define thainess, how thai people they do interact to each other, how they do talk, in a large way how they do act inside the thai society..... ETC ETC

Its a set of rule that describe how to behave.

By example, if the rule say: shut up the f###, stay at your place, you are not allowed to criticize, you have to....

well its an open door for century of abuse.

ps: NANA? I guess you are not talking about Emile Zola novel, because with your color skin you can not be that educated...

Thainess doesn't define an inability to challenge authority which opens the ability for people to be corrupt? Thainess doesn't keep the little man in place and deferent to his elders and supposed betters.

That lovely submissive wait from women to men in traditional dance means what? Or from praii to pooyai means what. Thainess defines a lot more than how you speak to someone.

And my point about Nana, is that people are inherently selfish, so if you did away with all the corruption, places like nana would probably be far less common. As for the color of my skin, well, that's another problem in thainess.

Just read your reply, so here food for thought:

Thainess has nothing to do with ability or action, its a state, its a quality.

Inability is just a horrible symptom of this ugly disease: the thainess.

Thainess is for my part only one element or the wrap of their dismiss.

Let have a deeper look, this country doesnt have a problem with 2 guy or 2 colors, but mostly with 63 millions people,

pure product of the thai society. Indeed a weak brain can not challenge lie, a weak brain with a corrupted soul or wrong

value is the perfect recipe for the disaster.

So how would you dumb down a whole nation?

I will do it throught education, instead of teaching them common sense, i will brainwash them... to keep them ineffecient.

How would you do to keep them quiet?

Well Budhism is the perfect tool to poison their soul... you stay at your place, wait for your next life.

How would you remove any self estim?

See above and add some nationalism. You have to lay down for your country, if you complain you are not thai,

you dont love your home...so never criticize.

The Nation extract the love for themself and put in on the nation and his institution.

After no wonder they all end up with low value, weird mentality and identity disorder.

About Nana, There is no such a thing of dna Selfish-ness.

Nana does exist because of the greed, lack of value, lack of emphathie, because it was welcome within this "hateful" thai society.

I will read this a few times more. I nearly get what you say, but not completely.

Thainess is the disease.

Anyone for any overwhelming benefits for it?

[ableguy]

Wasn,t Thailand a great place before the Shin hit the fan ? This place is heading towards a divide too great to be sorted without major bloodshed unless someone cleans the fan. Obama is doing the same thing in America, taking the money off the people who work and giving it to the people who are too idle, and making it look like he personally is giving the money out. Disgusting

You seem to be seriously confused .....