Yingluck accused of dodging responsibility over Ramkhamhaeng shootings

[Emptyset]

A cremation will burn the body and usually not the bones - they are dealt with later, but it has to be an incredibly hot fire to do that. I have seen pictures of bodies in house fires, car fires, plane fires, bush fires, and I've never seen the body burnt to the bones.

I could understand it being a reporting or translation issue if it was just one report, but many reports from different sources have mentioned bones. To me, it just doesn't sound right.

Sent from my phone ...

I concur in that burnt bodies do not burn bones to nothing in fires such as these. It is just another false story emanating from the blame the other side.

Who actually tells the truth in this country?

No one is blaming any side for the death of the boy, assuming it's true. Or at least they shouldn't be. No one knows what happened, or what side, if any, the boy was on.

[Prbkk]

The pantip link works fine and shows these gentle middle class folk in all their glory

[Emptyset]

The pantip link works fine and shows these gentle middle class folk in all their glory

Doesn't really matter what class they are in the end - although RU is definitely a more working class type of open university. It's somewhat troubling that many anti-government supporters still seem to believe that four students were killed and no red shirts. All based on false testimony supposedly written by a 'volunteer nurse' inside the university. I doubt there even was a volunteer nurse. I even saw pictures posted of the dead bodies in Wat Pathum in 2010 claimed as those inside Ramkhamhaeng. I was really shocked and it took me a few moments to realize I'd actually seen the very same image before.

The RU Rector himself claimed three students had died without mentioning any red shirt deaths. I'm not saying that the red shirts don't do exactly the same kind of things. They do. But those who believe that the middle class are too educated to be propagandized in this way couldn't be more wrong. Sadly.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Emptyset

[icare999]

[icare999]

[timoclark]

Why the hell is it her responsibility anymore than anyone else? People kill other people everyday in every country all over the world.

If you want to try and make it her responsibility due to it being a political rally, why is it her responsibility anymore than leader of the Democrats or Suthep or any other politician for that matter.

There is a far cry from allegedly giving an order to the army to use live fire or whatever and people killing each other at a rally. I don't believe Abhisit or Suthep should be held responsible, unless there was some extremely reckless and provable evidence which I doubt very much there is, any more than why Yingluck should or could take responsibility on this, even more so when there are no verifiable facts.

It is TS/YL responsibility because her police did nothing. It is her police. The national police chief, a Thaksin appointee is her/Thaksin's brother-in-law. Thaksin's police did nothing at Ramkhamhaeng, because Thaksin wants more violence, he wants a civil war.

It is a verifiable fact that the police stood by and did nothing at Ramkhamhaeng, to stop either the Reds or the students. The soldiers had to go in to rescue the students. The police didn't care, paid not to.

The Reds pulled soldiers out of army trucks and beat them to death. TS own Black Shirts opened fire on soldiers when they were unarmed. This is why the soldiers started using live fire in 2010.

This is all on Thaksin.

[HuaHinHarold]

Nick Nostitz was apparently present at the scene during the early hours, I don't think there were any other journalists there. Certainly most of the foreign journalists that witnessed students attacking red shirts in the late afternoon/early evening had gone home by the time the red shirts hit back. So hopefully he'll do a write-up at some point and we'll learn more.

Once a journalist - or should that be a photographer? - becomes part of a particular news story, as Nick has done recently, it makes it virtually impossible to go on reporting on that issue, to go on doing their job, without being seen to have "a conflict of interest", as it were.

After all, if you were roughed up by a certain group, only human for that incident to affect the way you report on them, no matter how much you may try for it to not.

Best thing from a professional ethical perspective, would be to take a break from this story. Report on something else. There must be plenty of other interesting issues in Thailand worthy of coverage. No?

Spot on...!

Given his obvious bias towards the Thakisinistra, he should have expected a rough ride in his attempts to infiltrate the crowd and try to provide damning evidence against the anti-government protesters.

If he was working for any organisation with integrity, he would now be "off the case"...!!

Point is, is there another photojournalist covering this sort of clash in the early hours

Who was taking all the photos in your pantip link?

Where are the photos that he's taken?

[HuaHinHarold]

Thanks for posting the link. Gruesome but compelling viewing. I can't imagine the terror experienced by those young women when confronted by that feral scum

Indeed, encountering the feral red shirts can be terrifying.

[SheungWan]

Yeah right. You know you wouldn't condone it if a Nation journalist, with their obvious anti-Thaksin bias, was attacked by reds and forced "off the case". But let's not go back into this again. Point is, is there another photojournalist covering this sort of clash in the early hours of the morning with chaos and violence going on all around? Nope. And that's the main reason I value Nick's work. He goes to places others don't (including Thai journalists).

Oh please, if Herr Nostitz had maintained any shred of journalistic integrity and not made rather indifferent claims in his articles, he wouldn't find himself so subject to ridicule!

He sold his soul, made his bed and all that..

Well, maybe he didn't and he truly believes what he writes is a true and honest account of what he experienced, but objective? Not in the slightest.

But along with Mr Head, his journalistic prowess will continue to be taken with a grain of salt in asserting their credibility, boy who cried wolf and all that...

Grain of salt is about right.

[HuaHinHarold]

Pretty sure. It's from this picture thread on Pantip: http://pantip.com/topic/31321614 - again, there's some brutal pictures posted there. Are you sure bones can't burn to nothing? Surely they can if it's hot enough, or how does cremation work?

A cremation will burn the body and usually not the bones - they are dealt with later, but it has to be an incredibly hot fire to do that. I have seen pictures of bodies in house fires, car fires, plane fires, bush fires, and I've never seen the body burnt to the bones.

I could understand it being a reporting or translation issue if it was just one report, but many reports from different sources have mentioned bones. To me, it just doesn't sound right.

Sent from my phone ...

The first link just showed a single picture of them getting ready to burn a red shirt.

In the link to full article, if the black thing that the cop is pointing to is supposed to be a body, then I'm convinced its not human.

Sent from my phone ...

Sorry, you're right. I somehow managed to copy the wrong picture. Can't edit it now, but obviously this is the one I meant to post. I don't know. On the one hand, you've got the fact his friend says they were attacked and were hiding in the bus, the fact that he's missing, plus the fact that his things were found in the area. But it still seems very strange.

We do have the precedent of 2009 when hundreds of red shirts turned up "missing", which morphed into hundreds being "slaughtered", which ended up as no deaths and lots of people just simply not returning home for lots of different reasons.

Anyway, we'll know soon enough via a proper autopsy if the remains are even human. What we won't know soon enough is what he was doing and how he was killed. IF the remains are human, hopefully, we will learn what happened to his missing skull and missing arms.