University groups trying to mobilise huge crowd

[Spare]

http://www.cicc.chula.ac.th/en/news-event/381-news-20131207-1-thai.html

"Chulalongkorn University will open and will continue its normal operations on Monday, December 9, 2013."

How is this possible? I better go buy a MC from my usual doctor, because I skip giving a lecture, hoping that today is declared another holiday.

[jackrich]

I will refer back to this post when parents of "innocent" and "unarmed" dead students come crying that their kids died.

And when Yingluck is charged with murder? As AW and ST have allready been!

How about Abhisit and Suthep charged with leading protesters to their deaths? Do you remember the street battles in Ramkamhaeng a week ago, on Saturday night? So many "innocent" and "unarmed" students killed at 2am. Photos from journalists show students running around with sharpened sticks, guns and knives.

[Emptyset]

Bender ---- go back and read the OP. The students coming out for the rally ARE from Thammasat and Chula etc. Most do NOT get free tuition. They do get student loans that fully offset tuition.

My partner attended BU (Private Uni) and the tuition is still pretty cheap but far more than the government institutions spoken of in the OP. He's one of the top in his field in Thailand (and cba to follow politics)

Your anecdotal mention of knowing people who attended a Uni are just that. (So are mine) But the fact remains that the students accepted into Thammasat or Chula etc ARE academically the top students in the country. Watch the TV/News tmw for the colored shirts. Chula will be in pink, Thammasat in Yellow/red trim, Katesart in Orange etc .... there will be 1000's from each school.

BTW--- none of the students that I know of that are attending "love the yellow shirts" they simply hate this government. They understand the damage done by things like the rice pledging scheme. They hate the corruption of selling Rohingya into slavery, they hate the flood control programs etc proposed by the government. Why? Like you said they are educated at great schools and they learn and talk about things.

So they're protesting for the Rohingya as well now? I'd be interested to hear them articulate their reasoning for this, especially given Abhisit's own poor record on the Rohingya, and refugee rights in general. It sounds like nothing more than shoehorning a completely seperate issue into a list of grievances to me. Just like poor old Dr Weng did in 2010 when he gave one reason for the red shirt protests as 'school kids not being able to afford their uniforms'.* Wonder if they were protesting for Rohingya rights in 2009 or if they're aware that the military (not just police) are involved in trafficking and considering they're generally smuggled via islands in the South, it'd be surprising if some Democrat MPs weren't complicit at some level.

I'd be interested to know how much of these students' decision to march is down to their own reasoning and how much is down to conformity to their social class and peer group. Obviously that's a question which we'll never really know the answer to, but I still say their main motivation is hatred for Thaksin, rather than noble desires to protect human rights etc. That stuff is ex post-facto reasoning, grasping for empirical evidence and arguments to fit your pre-conceived narrative. But I'm not singling these guys out for that. It's the same with the red shirts. They've happened to be on the side of democracy at times, rather than necessarily being committed to democracy as a guiding principle. Of course, I'd also claim that there are people in both sides - and those who refuse to take a side, of course - who would forefront universal principles. But they're a minority.

Let's also take a second to note that there are some students who don't agree with closing universities and joining the protests:

'The Rector of Thammasat University (TU) has been condemned by a group of TU lecturers who claim his order to close down the university for 3 days was unreasonable. The order was said to show support for the anti-government group who had called for a strike by the public sector to cripple the government.

The group of lecturers, composed of members of the Nitirat (Enlightened Jurists) group, anthropologist Yukti Mukdawijitra and political scientist Prajak Kongkirati, said in a public lecture on Tuesday that the decision of Rector Somkid Lertpaitoon was made without any democratic consultation within the community and was believed to be motivated by a political agenda.

The public lecture was held in defiance of the shutdown order at the University’s Rangsit campus in central Pathum Thani Province. About a hundred of students attended the ‘lecture’.

In the evening a group of about 40 students, led by the League of Liberal Thammasat for Democracy, organized a “no-confidence motion debate” against their Rector at the Rangsit campus.'

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3779

*And whilst one reason - at a deeper level - for the red shirt protests & indeed the protests now is no doubt economic injustice, economic equality was never an explicit red shirt goal (although a minority of left-leaning protesters have pushed for it - actually some people in the PAD have discussed this too).

"In the evening a group of about 40 students, led by the League of Liberal Thammasat for Democracy, organized a “no-confidence motion debate” against their Rector at the Rangsit campus."

As students should.

As far as the Rohingya are concerned, it's going to take a long time for Thailand to lose its nationalistic and hierarchical tendencies and embrace the concept of basic human rights: so for now we're their voice. However; student protests for or against a government are a good place to start this education. People from different sides can and do work together here when it's in their best interests. Consider the success of the fairly recent protest march against the Mae Wong dam. I couldn't of imagined that ten years ago. It's going to take a very long time.

Yes. Well, I'm in favour of protest and disruption as long as they lead to positive political change. Of course, organized engagement in public life is generally preferable to apathy, but not if it contributes to a reactionary turn. As I've said before - in practically every post I've written here lol - I believe both movements (broadly yellow/red) have been contigently on the side of democracy at various points. But neither side is, in my view, committed to democracy as a good in itself. They're committed to their leaders and/or hatred of the opposition leaders and questions regarding principles are subsidiary to this. Three weeks ago I thought the anti-govt side had a strongly democratic point to make, and they made it well. But now they appear to be turning their backs on parliamentary democracy entirely in what would amount to no more of a restoration of authoritarian forms of governance they feel are deeply rooted in Thai history.

Now it's the government who once again appears to be siding with democracy, whilst the protesters are rapidly losing any gains they'd made. What I'd like to see is a new movement, which foregrounds principle, human rights & democracy, and articulates a positive democratic project which people of various stripes could unite around. But that looks a bit uptopian at this point, I must admit. That's why I bring up the Rohingya issue though. How useful is it to raise this issue if - instead of being a genuine commitment to the issue - it's just a stick to bash the current government with and is forgotten about when the side you support gains power? Maybe there is some value to it, as you say, if that's the only way these issues are ever raised. I say this, incidentally, bearing in mind that a few years ago, I remember some reds making a fuss over Abhisit sending refugees back to Laos (IIRC), but I rather suspect those same people are tight-lipped wrt the Rohingya now.

However, like you say, there's some good in the fact that people are no longer apathetic. This is an interesting read on the issue:

'A yawning political divide has opened up between those who wish to institutionalize a political system based on the old notion of kreng jai and those who wish a substantial modification of automatic deference as the appropriate attitude toward the political elites. To this extent the elites on both sides of the current political impasse share the same interest. It shouldn’t be overlooked that a separate kreng jai system operates inside the class of elites. In fact, the more one investigates kreng jai, the more one starts to see that, like the weather, it quickly becomes very complicated.'

--

On that same note, it's also interesting how some of the anti-govt people seem to be criticizing those they perceive as neutral ("cheuy"). Question is, is this a genuine criticism of those they believe are apathethic and disengaged with the political system to the country's detriment? If so I can see the validity of the criticism. If however, the criticism is due to the fact that they're annoyed by those who aren't explicitly taking a side, then I disagree. You can be engaged with politics without being red or yellow. I remember after the coup, some people were saying 'song mai aow', no to both Thaksin and the junta. And I think that's the best position now. Not supporting the government in itself, but supporting democracy over attempts to replace it with a system of unelected 'good people'.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Emptyset

[Spare]

I will refer back to this post when parents of "innocent" and "unarmed" dead students come crying that their kids died.

And when Yingluck is charged with murder? As AW and ST have allready been!

How about Abhisit and Suthep charged with leading protesters to their deaths? Do you remember the street battles in Ramkamhaeng a week ago, on Saturday night? So many "innocent" and "unarmed" students killed at 2am. Photos from journalists show students running around with sharpened sticks, guns and knives.

Your quote: So many "innocent" and "unarmed" students killed at 2am.

Fact: 1 student killed, hence please put it in singular form like:

So one many "innocent" and "unarmed" students killed at 2am.

FYI, the other 3 killed are Red-shirts (not student).

[Ricardo]

I will refer back to this post when parents of "innocent" and "unarmed" dead students come crying that their kids died.

And when Yingluck is charged with murder? As AW and ST have allready been!

How about Abhisit and Suthep charged with leading protesters to their deaths? Do you remember the street battles in Ramkamhaeng a week ago, on Saturday night? So many "innocent" and "unarmed" students killed at 2am. Photos from journalists show students running around with sharpened sticks, guns and knives.

"How about Abhisit and Suthep charged with leading protesters to their deaths ?"

I suspect this will only happen, sometime after Jatupon, Weng, Arisaman & several others are charged with the same 'crime', in regard to the 2009 & 2010 protests.

[jackrich]

I will refer back to this post when parents of "innocent" and "unarmed" dead students come crying that their kids died.

And when Yingluck is charged with murder? As AW and ST have allready been!

How about Abhisit and Suthep charged with leading protesters to their deaths? Do you remember the street battles in Ramkamhaeng a week ago, on Saturday night? So many "innocent" and "unarmed" students killed at 2am. Photos from journalists show students running around with sharpened sticks, guns and knives.

Your quote: So many "innocent" and "unarmed" students killed at 2am.

Fact: 1 student killed, hence please put it in singular form like:

So one many "innocent" and "unarmed" students killed at 2am.

FYI, the other 3 killed are Red-shirts (not student).

So, no protestors killed then? Why do some people here then want Yingluck to face murder charges for killing innocent protesters?

[Nickymaster]

I will refer back to this post when parents of "innocent" and "unarmed" dead students come crying that their kids died.

And when Yingluck is charged with murder? As AW and ST have allready been!

How about Abhisit and Suthep charged with leading protesters to their deaths? Do you remember the street battles in Ramkamhaeng a week ago, on Saturday night? So many "innocent" and "unarmed" students killed at 2am. Photos from journalists show students running around with sharpened sticks, guns and knives.

Who leading who to their death?? Please stop this non-sense. I thought that hundreds of buses full with red shirts were brought in from all over Thailand to confront the peaceful anti-government protestors who were on the streets for weeks without any violence.

And then, Saturday night Nov 31 Arrisman started arousing the Red crowd by telling them he would take them to deal with Suthep and the anti-government protestors (when the interior Minister in charge of the Thai Police force was holding his hand on stage).

When the fights broke out, police was nowhere near the stadium and University for 17 hours.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Nickymaster

[Spare]

I will refer back to this post when parents of "innocent" and "unarmed" dead students come crying that their kids died.

And when Yingluck is charged with murder? As AW and ST have allready been!

How about Abhisit and Suthep charged with leading protesters to their deaths? Do you remember the street battles in Ramkamhaeng a week ago, on Saturday night? So many "innocent" and "unarmed" students killed at 2am. Photos from journalists show students running around with sharpened sticks, guns and knives.

Who leading who to their death?? Please stop this non-sense. I thought that hundreds of buses full with red shirts were brought in from all over Thailand to confront the peaceful anti-government protestors who were on the streets for weeks without any violence.

And then, Saturday night Nov 31 Arrisman started arousing the Red crowd by telling them he would take them to deal with Suthep and the anti-government protestors (when the interior Minister in charge of the Thai Police force was holding his hand on stage).

When the fights broke out, police was nowhere near the stadium and University for 17 hours.

The death ratio is 3:1. You figure it out, who kill who.

[VegasVic]

A bunch of college students protesting against the staus quo imagine that, I'll bet thats the first time this sort of thing ever happened alt=cheesy.gif pagespeed_url_hash=3951237149 width=32 height=20> alt=cheesy.gif pagespeed_url_hash=3951237149 width=32 height=20> alt=cheesy.gif pagespeed_url_hash=3951237149 width=32 height=20> The fact that Suthep and his cronies have to go out rouse these students into action speaks volumes about the lack of support for this movement! I guess it wasn't enough for Suthep to hide behind womens skirts now he's recruiting teenagers to stand on the front lines alt=rolleyes.gif pagespeed_url_hash=2070704717 width=20 height=20>

I takje it you are fom the USA? Maybe your brain is affected but I recall many students uprising in the USA causing GOVERNMENT policies to change... ummm Vietnam, Stonewall marches, martin Luther King to name but a few.

A bunch of college students can change the world. In fact one dumb ass college student who never had a degree invested the technology for YOU and me and others to write here. Now who was that Mr Vegas? maybe your comments are best left on roulette wheels.

It is admirable people want to see fairness in their country and we as visitors to should refrain from criticizing them as they try to achieve what we yes WE are more fortunate to enjoy as a RIGHT!

Now now there marcus calm down before you give youself an aneurysm 17-21 year old adolecents who occupy the worlds universities have never needed much encouragement to go out and protest, they all have a lot of energy to burn off and a lot of time on their hands! The fact that Suthep was able to muster so few students to his cause speaks volumes about their lack of conviction in this current movement BTW it is admirable for people to seek fairness in their country, however a corrupt hack like Suthep is hardly the person to bring fairness to the Thai masses Keep me posted on how Suthep and Abhisits murder trail progresses, I will be curious to see if they hang them or if they just let them rot the rest of their lives away in a Thai prison

[Bender]

So how many student from Thammasat and Chula did join the protest?

i really ask by curiosity!