PM offers House dissolution and national election

[SheungWan]

Tragic that a small number of protestors are able to achieve this (if there will be new elections).

On the other hand, if there will be new elections, I think that the Suthep-team only have shot them self in the foot, and they will lose the election (again) big time!. Either way, in short term Thailand has only lost on this embarrassing show led by Suthep.

In the long term though, hopefully this farce can be a reminder that elections are held to be respected!

(Although I´m not counting on it, this is Thailand after all).

Ah, but there is the hook. Elections should be respected by the party that was elected and having a government lying about elected members being directed by an unelected wanted criminal and focussing its activities around a whitewash of said person and denying that as well, well that is a definite no-no on the democratic front. The red supporters are the ones who should be embarrassed. but hey ho.

[LingLek]

Either Thailand wants a democracy or it doesn't. If it doesn't, Suthep and his cohorts should be allowed their 'People's Council,' the urban and rural poor be marginalized once again (with the usual simmering resentments) and the country drift towards the sort of Oriental despotism Marx spoke of 160 years ago. If it does then it--i.e. the electorate--must get on with the results of the general election. Foreigners crapping on about corrupt government or Thaksin (a straw man) or whatever obstacle currently gets in the way of their weaving passage to and from a bar is beside the point.

[almavro]

By the way,anyone know where is the meeting point for the anti-goverment protesters gather tomorrow morning?

There are actually over 30 rally starting points. Each group will depart on foot between 0700 and 0900 (at auspicious times like 0931), all headed to Government House. I only have a partial list of nine starting points and while I'm not inclined to take the time to translate, you can take my word that those nine are sufficient to cause total traffic chaos through most of the city. Theoretically that problem should peak in the morning as the various groups plan to meet at noon, when (assuming all goes to plan) once again the action should be confined to the vicinity of Gov't House.

I plan to keep my own schedule very flexible... and BTS/MRT/BRT-centered. And by all means, to keep my goodself away from any marchers.

[beammeup]

Looking fwd to elections. The Dems will do much better this time.

[Henn]

Thai Leader Yingluck Shinawatra Says Instability May Drag On

Prime Minister Is Under Pressure as Demonstrators Plan Fresh Rallies

Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra speaks during an interview with foreign media in Bangkok on Saturday.

BANGKOK—Yingluck Shinawatra still looks the part of Thailand’s prime minister. Perched on a chair at the Venetian-Gothic government headquarters in Bangkok, she counts off her successes since thousands of opposition protesters last month launched a campaign to unseat her—chief of which is that she is still prime minister.

Wall Street Journal

continues here:
http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-400071/

Edited December 8, 2013 by Henn

[bkkgooner]

In 2010 the Democrats offered the Reds a new election, the Reds disgracefully refused it and now history is repeating itself

This fascist People's Council is NOT the will of the people

[bkkgooner]

Looking fwd to elections. The Dems will do much better this time.

What election? The Dems seem to have sensed an opportunity of having a communist / fascist style of government installed in Thailand

[EyesWideOpen]

There will be another coup and most Thais will make a collective sigh of relief. The circus is over. Let the military be our guardians for a while to protect us from the parade of fools. Then what happens?

A new group of pigs will magically appear at the feeding trough. And of course there will be a few familiar pigs

that will show up as well...

[Spartakos]

What in the world makes you guys think that a change to the Dems, however it comes about, would make any difference at all to the basics of the way this country is run?

My take is that all that would happen is that the incomers would have a great time changing just about everything this government has done, with no more success than the present incumbents and a great deal of confusion over policies. There has to be a reason why the Dems have such a poor record in 20 years of elections - I know what I think but would hesitate to speculate on other posters' beliefs.

And for those who favour a military coup - remember last time? Another **** - up in a brewery.

The entire ongoing chaos reminds me of the English Civil War (1642-1652), fought between the Royalists and the Parliamentarians, during which the P's initially won and formed a 'Commonwealth' before being thrown out by the Royalists a few years later. As usual, the English peasants were the losers - all the way through the war.

I'm just not sure who's which in this conflict...

Let's say that you are right about the Dems being as bad as Taksin's bunch. But the point missed by most red posters is that Dems are a large group of people working together while the other bunch is ruled unconditionally by 1 person pretending to be the next messiah and that is a very scary way for any country to be governed.

[backtonormal]

Tragic that a small number of protestors are able to achieve this (if there will be new elections).

On the other hand, if there will be new elections, I think that the Suthep-team only have shot them self in the foot, and they will lose the election (again) big time!. Either way, in short term Thailand has only lost on this embarrassing show led by Suthep.

In the long term though, hopefully this farce can be a reminder that elections are held to be respected!

(Although I´m not counting on it, this is Thailand after all).

They have had fairly large numbers, as well as protests in places like Khon Kaen. The alliance against the current government is fairly broad across different sectors of society as well.

It seems that a large number of people do not understand how either governments nor elections are supposed to work particularly under the Westminster system of parliamentary democracy.

The assumption that PTP would win again in a big way is very probably not accurate. I would suspect something like the 2007 election results with a smaller gap between parties disputing the elections and a required coalition government where smaller groups are actually listened to. During this entire crisis have you seen or heard of ANY group meeting of the coalition partners currently in place? No. Have you seen or heard of minor coalition partners suggesting alternatives to PTP rule? (If you have paid attention, then yes.)

Does any of the media even pretend that any party in the government coalition mattters other than PTP? No.

Will YL who sits as the chair of the government body regarding Human Trafficking answer any questions about the recently emerged scandal? No

Rice pledging scheme answers? No.

Flood control answers? no

As Defense minister what has she done? Nothing.

Did she speak out against the last minute changes in the amnesty bill and denying the opposition even the chance at debating those changes to get the objections into the parliamentary record? No

Did she blame everything on the PTP MP's yes, Is she one of them Yes. Does she then take the out, I am the PM they did it on their own. Yes.

Is the country in more debt now than before? Yes

Is there a written plan for the 2.2 TRILLION baht? No

Could this list go on for pages? Yes.

When the government runs roughshod over the system, denies the courts validity, and works for the benefit of bringing back the PM's brother in a way that absolves him of his conviction, and whitewashes all the other cases against him, and tries to eliminate 2500+ corruption cases, etc etc etc .. it is not acting as a democracy. So why pretend?

I have seen these meetings every night for a week and the highest number I would put around 50 people. Tonight when I drove past there was not a dozen people and all the chairs were empty. The rally is at the fountain on Beung Kaen Nakon and on the other side of the lake there is a red stage which topped out at about 300, admittedly numbers were also low tonight about 40.

There is little or no support for the anti government rally in the North East

[backtonormal]

The PM should tell them to go screw themselves The election is in 19 months, start campaigning now if you're that bothered.

That is what Abhisit should have told the red rabble in 2010.

Sent from my GT-N5100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Remember Mark was not elected but Yingluck was. Mark led an army backed coalition formed from the deserters of the red government. All deserters have now been paid back...ask Newin ...well out in the cold

[backtonormal]

The Bangkok election, the Don Muaeng election or the Chiang Mai election? All of them with swings against PTP.

PTP might get the most seats if a general election was held now, but I doubt they would get the seat majority they have now, which would mean that they would have to get the smaller parties to support them to form government like they did in 2007.

I agree the PTP will remain in power whenever the election is held, with a coalition if necessary.

The Democrats were able to form a coalition in 2008 when the newly formed PTP tried to elect a new PM in parliament. It is possible they could do that again.

The coalition was formed in an army base. Referring to the leader of the Chart Pantana (think this is the party name), who joined the coalition, he was made an offer he could not refuse. Nobody knows what the offer was and who he could not refuse...we can only guess

[backtonormal]

Getting this Peoples Council, with hand picked members, in place is more imperative as everyday passes. They cannot let this government complete another 19 months in office. Events in the future will dictate Thailands direction for the next 100 years and if Sutheps backers are not in the hot seat they will miss the bus forever and they will never be able to remove Thaksin

[Bpuumike]

Tragic that a small number of protestors are able to achieve this (if there will be new elections).

On the other hand, if there will be new elections, I think that the Suthep-team only have shot them self in the foot, and they will lose the election (again) big time!. Either way, in short term Thailand has only lost on this embarrassing show led by Suthep.

In the long term though, hopefully this farce can be a reminder that elections are held to be respected!

(Although I´m not counting on it, this is Thailand after all).

Not when you are paid to vote.

This is not anecdotal, I have witnessed it.

[michaeljordan]

Same sorry propaganda and excuses for the minority yellows and their backers.

They say Reds paid for votes and that is how they won.

Yet, their group, Yellows, with even more money and just as corrupt, could not buy the poor no matter how much was offered.

They say that the poor are ignorant and are wrecking the nation.

Yet they who back the yellow, The rich, so not mind using these people in sweat shops and in the fields to make them filthy rich.

They do not mind using the young women as toys.

NO--they simply object to The government having spent small money to give ther people running water and electricity.

If the poor are ignorant, it is because you give them no education.

OR--do you think it is genetic?

Did it ever occur to you to compete to get their votes?

Maybe they hate you because you hate them.

Internation trade tarrifs are a possibility should this next coup take place.

[spongeman]

Red shirts all the way baby, And they have a nice bit of stuff in charge as well. Always helps.

[JRSoul]

Red shirts all the way baby, And they have a nice bit of stuff in charge as well. Always helps.

No, it doesn't. Oz female state premiers and PM have been elected, some have won an election as leader during the "honeymoon" period after taking over, but not one has gone on to win again. And the recurring theme is that their party loses in a big way after their term in office.

IIRC Thatcher was unlikely to have been re-elected until Argentina declared war.

Here we have an airhead as the pretty face of a criminal organisation which has proven spectacularly corrupt and equally inept. IMHO that trick won't work again.

[Bkkbound]

The problem is that an election will not resolve the current political impasse created by the exiled defacto PM Taksin Shin, not sure how many relatives he has but I would not be surprised to find his ex wife on the ballot paper. Taksins determination to create a Shin Dynasty is at the heart of the conflict. The military may rue the day they did not deal with him once and for all when they had the chance.

Democracy in Thailand is nothing like the concept understood in western europe or long established democracies, the forces at play here are ones that cannot be openly discussed or referred to. The elephants in the room make discussion about thai politics a joke.An election will achieve nothing other than use up some of Taksins stolen Billions.

There will be no resolution to the increasingly divisive and risky conflicts until Taksin as an entity is taken out of play.

Then the country can revert to its pre Taksin era of localised/national politics within very clear boundaries with the occasional coup thrown in every few years.

[spongeman]

The yellows might do a bit better next time around, but nowhere near the level of improvement needed to put a real dent in the current government. they are still going to get hammered.

Could be a very long time before they get in, and they know it because they are pushing this "unelected government" thingy.

I am surprised that they did'nt wait until after the King's birthday before throwing the wobblies. That inevitable break lost them serious momentum.

Good ould Thailand, always entertaining if nothing else.

[SheungWan]

Either Thailand wants a democracy or it doesn't. If it doesn't, Suthep and his cohorts should be allowed their 'People's Council,' the urban and rural poor be marginalized once again (with the usual simmering resentments) and the country drift towards the sort of Oriental despotism Marx spoke of 160 years ago. If it does then it--i.e. the electorate--must get on with the results of the general election. Foreigners crapping on about corrupt government or Thaksin (a straw man) or whatever obstacle currently gets in the way of their weaving passage to and from a bar is beside the point.

Just when one has just about given up waiting weeks if not months for the 'its not about Thaksin' bus to show up, a lovely big red one barrels down the road lurching from side to side and slightly disguised as a 'straw man'.

[whybother]

 

The PM should tell them to go screw themselves The election is in 19 months, start campaigning now if you're that bothered.  

That is what Abhisit should have told the red rabble in 2010.

Sent from my GT-N5100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

 

Remember Mark was not elected but Yingluck was. Mark led an army backed coalition formed from the deserters of the red government. All deserters have now been paid back...ask Newin ...well out in the cold

Maybe you need to check out how PMs are elected. Both were elected party list MPs and both were elected PMS in parliament.

In reference to your other post, the PTP coalition was formed in Dubai. The smaller parties joined that for the same reasons they joined the Democrats - to get at the trough.

Sent from my phone ...

[UncleJ]

Suthep should just go home to the illegally occupied land on Khao Phaeng mountain on Koh Samui. Agreed?

..Or the land meant for poor farmers that was given to some of the wealthiest families in Phuket when he was agriculture minister...to enjoy the money he made in the palm oil scandal....

Edited December 9, 2013 by UncleJ

[smedly]

The problem is that an election will not resolve the current political impasse created by the exiled defacto PM Taksin Shin, not sure how many relatives he has but I would not be surprised to find his ex wife on the ballot paper. Taksins determination to create a Shin Dynasty is at the heart of the conflict. The military may rue the day they did not deal with him once and for all when they had the chance.

Democracy in Thailand is nothing like the concept understood in western europe or long established democracies, the forces at play here are ones that cannot be openly discussed or referred to. The elephants in the room make discussion about thai politics a joke.An election will achieve nothing other than use up some of Taksins stolen Billions.

There will be no resolution to the increasingly divisive and risky conflicts until Taksin as an entity is taken out of play.

Then the country can revert to its pre Taksin era of localised/national politics within very clear boundaries with the occasional coup thrown in every few years.

I agree with most of what you say except about democracy not working here, democracy would work if it was set up correctly - Australia would probably be a good model

All that is required are a few more rules put in place to stop people like Thaksin exploiting the gaps, if Thaksin was removed from the game then it wouldn't be long before someone else steps up to the plate.

The problem is who has the will and the expertise to make it happen, suthep has the right idea but I'm not sure that he knows what needs to be done

I would like to see PTP exposed for what they are, I've been saying for some time now that the level of theft and corruption will be shocking, I find it pretty obvious if you look at the lies and deception concerning the rice scheme - the car scheme - the water project etc then suddenly the farmers aren't being paid and the governments looking for a 2x trillion loan which they are refusing to put through normal budgetary process - in other words they can use the money for whatever they like when they like, that just rings so many alarms for me.

At this point I believe PTP cannot afford to step down and have any sort of audit take place as that would expose the depth of corruption and theft that has taken place, for them the ideal would be to step down have a snap election and get voted back in before any investigation can get started

I also believe that there are civil servants in the finance department that have on several occasions tried to drop hints at what is going on and they've been silenced by either fear or been sacked and told to keep their mouths firmly shut

If I am right I hope that those responsible are fast tracked to prison to serve some very lengthy sentences - perhaps some emergency powers need to be enacted to assist this process

As for the reds - they are very simply a bought and paid for mouth piece/propaganda machine of TS and should be ashamed of themselves

I guess only time will tell how this turns out

[Ricardo]

Does anyone find it funny that both Abhisit and Suthep are speaking right now. Abhisit calling on Yingluck to dissolve the house and Suthep saying that he will not accept her house dissolution.

The Democrats are split so badly it's ridiculous.

"The Dems are split so badly its ridiculous"

Did I imagine it, that Suthep resigned both from the Dems and also as an MP, before starting to ramp-up 'his' protests ?

Whereas Abhisit has been working constructively within-the-system, trying to use the censure-debate to expose PTP incompetence and corruption, for example.

And the Dems in Parliament just voted unanimously to resign as MPs, so they're not split, at all !

Is there any reasonable doubt that, if/when PM-Yingluck actually carries out her several offers to resign & hold elections, the Democrat Party will contest them ? Whereas Suthep has said FWIW he doesn't want to be an MP any more, and won't, because he is holding-out (wrongly IMO) for something more ... this Peoples' Council thingy.

So no split, within the remaining-Dems' ranks, there either ?

What might be really interesting, is if the few Red-Shirt MPs within PTP's ranks were to decide, that they can no longer support the party which tried to amnesty Abhisit & Suthep along with Thaksin, and were to set up their own new party, in competition with PTP.

Theirs is after all a party of factions, combined to form TRT under Thaksin's leadership over a decade ago, why might they not want to break away (as the 'Friends of Newin' did) since the party is now putting the interests of one man & his family, ahead of those of the poor in the North & North-East, which the Red-Shirt local-leaders claim to champion ?

[NanLaew]

Abhisit's about-turn and 'agreement' to lead his party's resignation from the current house of representatives is the act of someone being manipulated and not the act of a party leader. Whatever credibility he had by keeping his former deputy at arms-length is pretty much gone now. Whatever the outcome, he isn't wearing the pants in that household now (if he ever was).

The current government have (eventually) acquiesced on pretty much everything that caused the ruckus and the opposition's subsequent and never-ending litany of demands, from vowing not to revive the amnesty bill, to proposing a referendum, to offering to dissolve parliament and setting new elections. She has just asked that parliament be dissolved but the knee-jerk reaction of what passes for opposition here will be to raise the bar and press on with Suthep's unrealistic 'people's council' and the one-way street to ignominy that this option presents.

There's no way an elected party anywhere on this planet with the popular mandate to govern should relinquish control to a fractious bunch with absolutely no policy beyond getting something they cannot obtain by legal means. A viable opposition may have a snowball's chance in hell of getting things changed but the Democrats are just not that viable.

The elections will once again be free and fair and PTP (or whatever new brand name they propose) will be back in the driver's seat with the usual retinue of kids in the back.

[Ricardo]

Whatever, it seems to have worked, as Yingluck has just been reported as having asked the Palace to dissolve Parliament.

[rebelplatoon]

Election is a way out. Alas, the way it is set up now nothing will change. It should be by popular vote.

I remember that during the last election the difference in amount of people was about 250.000 between

the TRT and the DEM's. But this was not translated in the seats. This was the result of district voting.

It was adjusted before the election to "fit" the powers that be.

[bkksteviejai]

Don't like to say it but K.Prayuth maybe the only way out of what is surely to become a train wreck. It's just sad, really is.

Come on Thailand, please sort it out!,

Yours sincerely,

A concerned observer .

[UncleJ]

Don't like to say it but K.Prayuth maybe the only way out of what is surely to become a train wreck. It's just sad, really is.

Come on Thailand, please sort it out!,

Yours sincerely,

A concerned observer .

Good old General Prayuth. You don't get to the top of the Thai Army by having high morals or ethics.

How many billions is he worth I wonder?

His boss is itching for a coup but he can't until the rent a mob closes the airport or gets a bunch of people killed.

[Bpuumike]

I don't know how to achieve the removal of the Shiniwatras from politics. That is Sutheps stated goal, and a worthy target. Thaksin running the country from Dubai is not right. When an MP is quoted as saying that the cabinet is having a difficult time trying to balance how much influence Thaksin should have, it is clear that he runs the show. How anyone can actually say that it is democratic is beyond me. Dissolution and elections will not rid the country of the plague that is Thaksin. Convince PTP that the gravy train will come to an end unless the whole clan is banned, then maybe democracy can work.

I think there is only one outcome to this, not to be mentioned.

This would be a better solution and allow Thailand to move forward.