Football, Meat Pies, Kangaroos and ...

[David48]

Football, Meat Pies, Kangaroos and Holden Cars

Australian Prime Minister Joseph Benedict 'Ben' Chifley launching the first Holden motor car, 29 Nov 1948.

HOLDEN has announced it will stop making cars in Australia in 2017, throwing the future of the nation's auto industry into doubt.

General Motors broke the news to the federal, Victorian and South Australian governments early this afternoon.

The nearly 3000 Holden workers to be directly hit by the pullout were to be told this afternoon, as unions warned Holden's decision would cost 50,000 jobs in the auto sector.

The Australian

.

[David48]

For those not familiar with the Australian Car, the Holden Motor Company is a wholly owned subsidiary of General Motors and the decision to finish manufacturing in Australia in 2017 was taken in Detroit last night.

Rumours have been swirling around since late last week and the Head of Holden has just now officially confirmed those rumours.

Holden through the ages here.

If you ever spent any considerable time in Australia, you've almost certainly travelled in one, likely to have driven one ... and maybe even owned one or two ... I know I had a Holden Ute with a 202 and 3 on the tree.

This was the only one I could find quickly with some girls in it ...

.

[OZEMADE]

Holden to withdraw from Australia by end of 2017
The last Holden will roll off the assembly line in late 2016. This is due to the cost of manufacturing a Holden car. General Motors (GM) said it is costing them an extra $1750 to manufacture each car.
In 2017 all Holden cars will be imported into Australia, like most other cars..
The future of Toyota Australia is now in doubt due to Holden's shutdown.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/a/20265871/holden-to-withdraw/

Edited December 11, 2013 by OZEMADE

[IMHO]

Holden to withdraw from Australia by end of 2017

The last Holden will roll off the assembly line in late 2016. This is due to the cost of manufacturing a Holden car. General Motors (GM) said it is costing them an extra $1750 to manufacture each car.

In 2017 all Holden cars will be imported into Australia, like most other cars..

The future of Toyota Australia is now in doubt due to Holden's shutdown.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/a/20265871/holden-to-withdraw/

More like an extra $3750 more expensive to manufacture in AU compared to TH. To put that into perspective, for something like the Cruze, that's 25-30% more.

[Chao Lao Beach]

Isuzu has been full stream ahead in Oz for a couple of years now, I am sue all part of the plan. The ones sent to oz have different doors and latches for side impact regulations, different ABS systems as well as the ones sold in Thailand are illegal in oz, not enough sensors. And they even have heaters !!!!

Some of the best pies I have had have been in Thailand. (Hard to beat a Yattla though)

[OZEMADE]

Holden to withdraw from Australia by end of 2017

The last Holden will roll off the assembly line in late 2016. This is due to the cost of manufacturing a Holden car. General Motors (GM) said it is costing them an extra $1750 to manufacture each car.

In 2017 all Holden cars will be imported into Australia, like most other cars..

The future of Toyota Australia is now in doubt due to Holden's shutdown.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/a/20265871/holden-to-withdraw/

More like an extra $3750 more expensive to manufacture in AU compared to TH. To put that into perspective, for something like the Cruze, that's 25-30% more.

You are right, my mistake it is $3750 extra to manufacture.

Tony Abbott just gave a speech in parliament and said that the CEO of Holden/GM also closed down two other plants in europe as well. So the Australian plant was not the only one.

Now the Australian Metal Workers Union (AMWU) are in discussions with Toyota and they are asking for more wages. The Union have told the workers to hold out for the wage rise. This AMWU are the main cause of the other car manufacturers closing down and now they are threatening the last car manufacturer in OZ. This AMWU were the cause of Mitsubishi closing down because of outrageous claims they were given, by standing over the company. In the end the company were in the same position as Holden. Then Ford went by the wayside and are now being manufactured in Thailand. Now holden and no doubt Toyota will go as well. This will lead to now estimated 70,000 jobs going. Most will be from small companies that make all the other parts for the main car manufacturers.

Thailand now manufactrre the Ford Ranger for OZ

Thailand manufacture the Isuzu for OZ

Thailand already manufacture the Isuzu/Badged Holden Rodeo for OZ conditions, the only difference was that you could have a petrol donk in the Holden Ranger if you requested it.

Any of these vehicles sold in OZ cost approx $15000 more than what you purchase them for in Thailand and the manufacturers and dealers there still make a profit. So why wouldn't they have them made in Asia and make a profit.

[BSJ]

Well we can all thank the fuking union assh0les for killing another Aussie icon.

[Ace of Pop]

Jeeez... i only looked because of th Meat Pies, recon if Chevy dropped them crapy Korean Cars they sell here and sold them " Bloody Luvly Ozzy Meat Pies" instead they would soon fill the Showrooms. . Or Spam.

[wilcopops]

Australia's motor industry has been little more than a curio for years. (always?)

There isn't a motor industry anywhere in the world that doesn't have government subsidies in one form or another - and on top of that governments heavily subsidise roads etc etc.

Oz's main problem was, like the UK industry they never actually had any product. The Monaro could never save a motor industry, no matter how beautiful it was.

in the 80s UK trashed their manufacturing base and drifted into fin ace and the like - service industries - with the obvious results. Oz has followed that path, but because of the boom in raw materials and commodities this change was not so noticeable - but now it has become clear.

UK now makes more motor vehicles than it ever has.

(Germany on the other hand has maintained it's manufacturing and engineering base and is the only country in the world to have a trade surplus with China).

There is a light at the end of the tunnel though.......Thailand's model.

Thailand manufactures cars for other nations companies, but unlike Oz that only dabbled in it, Thailand has gone the whole hog.

To have a viable motor industry one needs to produce 2 million units p.a or so, but if you have plant that is manufacturing for about 2 or 3 different companies on the same line this is much more readily achievable. An example of this is the new plant at Laem Chabang that will produce both Mitsu and Nissan pickups.

So Australia has to think outside the box and look at Thailand to learn a few things....then maybe all those people and companies that have come to rely on Holden and Ford will find a new line of business.

Edited December 11, 2013 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Holden to withdraw from Australia by end of 2017

The last Holden will roll off the assembly line in late 2016. This is due to the cost of manufacturing a Holden car. General Motors (GM) said it is costing them an extra $1750 to manufacture each car.

In 2017 all Holden cars will be imported into Australia, like most other cars..

The future of Toyota Australia is now in doubt due to Holden's shutdown.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/a/20265871/holden-to-withdraw/

More like an extra $3750 more expensive to manufacture in AU compared to TH. To put that into perspective, for something like the Cruze, that's 25-30% more.

You are right, my mistake it is $3750 extra to manufacture.

Tony Abbott just gave a speech in parliament and said that the CEO of Holden/GM also closed down two other plants in europe as well. So the Australian plant was not the only one.

Now the Australian Metal Workers Union (AMWU) are in discussions with Toyota and they are asking for more wages. The Union have told the workers to hold out for the wage rise. This AMWU are the main cause of the other car manufacturers closing down and now they are threatening the last car manufacturer in OZ. This AMWU were the cause of Mitsubishi closing down because of outrageous claims they were given, by standing over the company. In the end the company were in the same position as Holden. Then Ford went by the wayside and are now being manufactured in Thailand. Now holden and no doubt Toyota will go as well. This will lead to now estimated 70,000 jobs going. Most will be from small companies that make all the other parts for the main car manufacturers.

Thailand now manufactrre the Ford Ranger for OZ

Thailand manufacture the Isuzu for OZ

Thailand already manufacture the Isuzu/Badged Holden Rodeo for OZ conditions, the only difference was that you could have a petrol donk in the Holden Ranger if you requested it.

Any of these vehicles sold in OZ cost approx $15000 more than what you purchase them for in Thailand and the manufacturers and dealers there still make a profit. So why wouldn't they have them made in Asia and make a profit.

" $3750 extra to manufacture."

I think it's $375 per unit to produce......... Extra retail costs are due to tax duties etc.

the pickups manufactured in Thailand for other countries can often have different spec.

firstly they often have a V6 4 litre option, but they also have on some models a more advanced 4WD system - these all cost.

(meat pies are of course a relic of the old UK colonial past.)

Edited December 11, 2013 by wilcopops

[Chao Lao Beach]

This AMWU are the main cause of the other car manufacturers closing down and now they are threatening the last car manufacturer in OZ.

I can't disagree there, with open borders for trade, some of the Unions make life hard for them selves and have gone troppo.

Some of these Unions are so powerful, that they have forgotten what they really stand for, and now represent pure lazy-ness lead by misfits who have never had a real job.

I believe that unions have a real place and can offer a lot, but not the way they have turned into now.

I wonder, what real industry is going to be left in Oz, digging great big holes?

[GrantSmith]

CLB,

I think ALPA (correct me if I'm wrong - pilots association is what I'm getting at) is one of the few unions back home that is about the members.

I remember back in the day so was the LHMU before they morphed into some stupid name Care or something like that now..

Was really something to be proud of and you could really turn to them for some solid advice...

[IMHO]

Holden to withdraw from Australia by end of 2017

The last Holden will roll off the assembly line in late 2016. This is due to the cost of manufacturing a Holden car. General Motors (GM) said it is costing them an extra $1750 to manufacture each car.

In 2017 all Holden cars will be imported into Australia, like most other cars..

The future of Toyota Australia is now in doubt due to Holden's shutdown.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/a/20265871/holden-to-withdraw/

More like an extra $3750 more expensive to manufacture in AU compared to TH. To put that into perspective, for something like the Cruze, that's 25-30% more.

You are right, my mistake it is $3750 extra to manufacture.

Tony Abbott just gave a speech in parliament and said that the CEO of Holden/GM also closed down two other plants in europe as well. So the Australian plant was not the only one.

Now the Australian Metal Workers Union (AMWU) are in discussions with Toyota and they are asking for more wages. The Union have told the workers to hold out for the wage rise. This AMWU are the main cause of the other car manufacturers closing down and now they are threatening the last car manufacturer in OZ. This AMWU were the cause of Mitsubishi closing down because of outrageous claims they were given, by standing over the company. In the end the company were in the same position as Holden. Then Ford went by the wayside and are now being manufactured in Thailand. Now holden and no doubt Toyota will go as well. This will lead to now estimated 70,000 jobs going. Most will be from small companies that make all the other parts for the main car manufacturers.

Thailand now manufactrre the Ford Ranger for OZ

Thailand manufacture the Isuzu for OZ

Thailand already manufacture the Isuzu/Badged Holden Rodeo for OZ conditions, the only difference was that you could have a petrol donk in the Holden Ranger if you requested it.

Any of these vehicles sold in OZ cost approx $15000 more than what you purchase them for in Thailand and the manufacturers and dealers there still make a profit. So why wouldn't they have them made in Asia and make a profit.

The only factor supporting Toyota manufacturing in AU now is the prospect of government fleet buying - which has a mandate to prefer "Australian Made" and is the one and only reason the Camry is made there. Once the Commodore and Falcon disappear, what are police, public servants and politicians going to drive?

The unions understand they have this card to play, but still can't help themselves and will almost certainly kill their last remaining golden goose.

[IMHO]

I wonder, what real industry is going to be left in Oz, digging great big holes?

There's another profitable export industry in Australia outside of selling the very dirt your country is made of? Sorry not fair, I hear they selling a few cows to Indonesia and South Korea too

Edited December 11, 2013 by IMHO

[wilcopops]

Anyone who blames the Unions for the demise of the Aussie motor industry is letting their political views cloud their assessment of what has really been happening. you just need to look at product and nature of their markets targeted to see that.

There are of course multiple factors. How much you pay your workers is one but that also needs to be related to productivity per worker (e.g. units produced per head) and this also varies with production methods.

if you go to a European motor factory, the place is almost deserted - the production is largely automated., so although wages are high the number of workers is low. In Thailand the products are specifically designed to make use of cheap labour costs - Australia seems to have fallen between both stools

One is the recent boom in raw materials which whilst bringing wealth to some states has masked the underlying malaise in other sectors of the Oz economy. A result of the boom has also been a high dollar, which has done little to help manufacturing.

I think the Oz states (and territories) - especially Victoria and NSW - will now have to look seriously at the conditions underpinning of their own economies.

Edited December 12, 2013 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

Holden to withdraw from Australia by end of 2017

The last Holden will roll off the assembly line in late 2016. This is due to the cost of manufacturing a Holden car. General Motors (GM) said it is costing them an extra $1750 to manufacture each car.

In 2017 all Holden cars will be imported into Australia, like most other cars..

The future of Toyota Australia is now in doubt due to Holden's shutdown.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/sa/a/20265871/holden-to-withdraw/

More like an extra $3750 more expensive to manufacture in AU compared to TH. To put that into perspective, for something like the Cruze, that's 25-30% more.

You are right, my mistake it is $3750 extra to manufacture.

Tony Abbott just gave a speech in parliament and said that the CEO of Holden/GM also closed down two other plants in europe as well. So the Australian plant was not the only one.

Now the Australian Metal Workers Union (AMWU) are in discussions with Toyota and they are asking for more wages. The Union have told the workers to hold out for the wage rise. This AMWU are the main cause of the other car manufacturers closing down and now they are threatening the last car manufacturer in OZ. This AMWU were the cause of Mitsubishi closing down because of outrageous claims they were given, by standing over the company. In the end the company were in the same position as Holden. Then Ford went by the wayside and are now being manufactured in Thailand. Now holden and no doubt Toyota will go as well. This will lead to now estimated 70,000 jobs going. Most will be from small companies that make all the other parts for the main car manufacturers.

Thailand now manufactrre the Ford Ranger for OZ

Thailand manufacture the Isuzu for OZ

Thailand already manufacture the Isuzu/Badged Holden Rodeo for OZ conditions, the only difference was that you could have a petrol donk in the Holden Ranger if you requested it.

Any of these vehicles sold in OZ cost approx $15000 more than what you purchase them for in Thailand and the manufacturers and dealers there still make a profit. So why wouldn't they have them made in Asia and make a profit.

The only factor supporting Toyota manufacturing in AU now is the prospect of government fleet buying - which has a mandate to prefer "Australian Made" and is the one and only reason the Camry is made there. Once the Commodore and Falcon disappear, what are police, public servants and politicians going to drive?

The unions understand they have this card to play, but still can't help themselves and will almost certainly kill their last remaining golden goose.

Unlike Holden (and Ford) Toyota have a totally different business model, for a start they are largely building for export - something that Holden, at best, dabbled at. However eve that won't guarantee their remaining in Oz.

Edited December 12, 2013 by wilcopops

[IMHO]

Unlike Holden (and Ford) Toyota have a totally different business model, for a start they are largely building for export - something that Holden, at best, dabbled at. However eve that won't guarantee their remaining in Oz.

Holden did a pretty good job of exporting in the 60's and 70's.. Then they released the Opel Rekord Commodore and it all seemed to end..

[wilcopops]

Unlike Holden (and Ford) Toyota have a totally different business model, for a start they are largely building for export - something that Holden, at best, dabbled at. However eve that won't guarantee their remaining in Oz.

Holden did a pretty good job of exporting in the 60's and 70's.. Then they released the Opel Rekord Commodore and it all seemed to end..

Actually if you look at Holden exports then, they were effectively nearly zero compared to Europe and the emerging Japanese manufacturers - the economies next to them were in no way capable of buying their product. - But as you point out, really a lot of their parts etc were either opel or GM US origin.

However when it comes to exporting they failed to maintain any exports and were out manoeuvred by the Japanese. They also really didn't have product for those markets.

e.g. The Fortuner/Vigo/Innova - range which was developed specifically for manufacture in emerging economies. They use high labour and low automation. Holden just seemed to be smug" about the superiority and desirability of their product - which was just not suited to any markets outside Oz.

Edited December 12, 2013 by wilcopops

[Spoonman]

Thailand already manufacture the Isuzu/Badged Holden Rodeo for OZ conditions,

Errrrr no.

Holden sell the Chevrolet Colorado.

[Jasun]

The reason they're leaving is because there's not enough people buying them. Now the same people who didn't support this local manufacturer are screaming about how terrible it is they're leaving. Sad for the employees, off to QLD and WA to dig dirt I guess.

[wilcopops]

Thailand already manufacture the Isuzu/Badged Holden Rodeo for OZ conditions,

Errrrr no.

Holden sell the Chevrolet Colorado.

Both vehicles - Isuzu/Chevrolet - are essentially the same platform. most of the Japanese pickups/utes in Oz are manufactured in Thailand.

“Both the domestic and export versions of the Chevrolet Colorado are manufactured in General Motors Thailand’s facility at Rayong, Thailand. Additionally, GM Thailand also has a manufacturing contract with Isuzu, under which GM manufactures Isuzu’s trucks for the export market.”

Izusu own the name "Rodeo" - Both models are manufactured in Thailand. Some mods are made in Oz.

Edited December 12, 2013 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

The reason they're leaving is because there's not enough people buying them. Now the same people who didn't support this local manufacturer are screaming about how terrible it is they're leaving. Sad for the employees, off to QLD and WA to dig dirt I guess.

WHY aren't they buying them? It's all very well saying "support your local businesses, but this is a management thing they need to make something the locals want at a price they can afford - Because although it's nice to think you need a big muscular car, the practicalities are quite different. The large Holdens simply don't have enough people who actually can afford to buy them (part from government departments) - so the only thing they could sell are imported small car designs.

Edited December 12, 2013 by wilcopops

[Spoonman]

Thailand already manufacture the Isuzu/Badged Holden Rodeo for OZ conditions,

Errrrr no.

Holden sell the Chevrolet Colorado.

Both vehicles - Isuzu/Chevrolet - are essentially the same platform. most of the Japanese pickups/utes in Oz are manufactured in Thailand.

Both the domestic and export versions of the Chevrolet Colorado are manufactured in General Motors Thailands facility at Rayong, Thailand. Additionally, GM Thailand also has a manufacturing contract with Isuzu, under which GM manufactures Isuzus trucks for the export market.[/size]Izusu own the name "Rodeo" - Both models are manufactured in Thailand. Some mods are made in Oz.[/size]

Which is why Holden Australia no longer sell the Rodeo, they now sell the Chevrolet vehicle called the Colorado.

the Colorado is built in the GM facility and the D-Max in the Izuzu facility which is owned by GM.

"Isuzu split with acrimony: when GM informed them the deal for D-Max to be Holden Rodeos was gone after 2011, in a fit of petulance Isuzu who owned the rights to the name denied it to Holden. Hence what was the Rodeo is now the Colorado since about 2010. GM owned the Thai factory and plant. The new Isuzu D-Max shares cab panels and chassis rails with the new Colorado, but amost nothing else - engines, trans, front and rear sheetmetal, underpinnings, equipment. They're so different they're even rated differently by ANCAP."

Edited December 12, 2013 by Spoonman

[IMHO]

The reason they're leaving is because there's not enough people buying them. Now the same people who didn't support this local manufacturer are screaming about how terrible it is they're leaving. Sad for the employees, off to QLD and WA to dig dirt I guess.

WHY aren't they buying them? It's all very well saying "support your local businesses, but this is a management thing they need to make something the locals want at a price they can afford - Because although it's nice to think you need a big muscular car, the practicalities are quite different. The large Holdens simply don't have enough people who actually can afford to buy them (part from government departments) - so the only thing they could sell are imported small car designs.

It's less about consumer affordability than it is Holden/Ford's financial incapacity to invest in R&D, and competitively manufacture new models in more desirable segments. Outside of the Holden Snooze and Toyota's Camry, their whole industry remains pegged to 6 and 8 cylinder D segment cars that lost their popularity as fast as netbook computers did when the iPad was released. And they couldn't revive enough interest with turbo 4 engines and LPG systems that came too little, too late.

FTA's like the one with Thailand didn't help them much either - prior to that only a handful of pickups were exported to Oz - since TAFTA the Oz market is flooded with practically everything that's made here, all duty free. I expect the recent FTA between Aust and South Korea was final nail in Holden's coffin, seeing as their volume sellers are all rebadged Daewoos anyway

[DJH77]

I wonder, what real industry is going to be left in Oz, digging great big holes?

There's another profitable export industry in Australia outside of selling the very dirt your country is made of? Sorry not fair, I hear they selling a few cows to Indonesia and South Korea too

Don't forget we also sell Camels to the Arabs.

Edited December 12, 2013 by DJH77

[IMHO]

Thailand already manufacture the Isuzu/Badged Holden Rodeo for OZ conditions,

Errrrr no.

Holden sell the Chevrolet Colorado.

Both vehicles - Isuzu/Chevrolet - are essentially the same platform. most of the Japanese pickups/utes in Oz are manufactured in Thailand.

Both the domestic and export versions of the Chevrolet Colorado are manufactured in General Motors Thailands facility at Rayong, Thailand. Additionally, GM Thailand also has a manufacturing contract with Isuzu, under which GM manufactures Isuzus trucks for the export market.[/size]Izusu own the name "Rodeo" - Both models are manufactured in Thailand. Some mods are made in Oz.[/size]

Which is why Holden Australia no longer sell the Rodeo, they now sell the Chevrolet vehicle called the Colorado.

the Colorado is built in the GM facility and the D-Max in the Izuzu facility which is owned by GM.

"Isuzu split with acrimony: when GM informed them the deal for D-Max to be Holden Rodeos was gone after 2011, in a fit of petulance Isuzu who owned the rights to the name denied it to Holden. Hence what was the Rodeo is now the Colorado since about 2010. GM owned the Thai factory and plant. The new Isuzu D-Max shares cab panels and chassis rails with the new Colorado, but amost nothing else - engines, trans, front and rear sheetmetal, underpinnings, equipment. They're so different they're even rated differently by ANCAP."

Same ugly interior too, just different colors

[wilcopops]

The reason they're leaving is because there's not enough people buying them. Now the same people who didn't support this local manufacturer are screaming about how terrible it is they're leaving. Sad for the employees, off to QLD and WA to dig dirt I guess.

WHY aren't they buying them? It's all very well saying "support your local businesses, but this is a management thing they need to make something the locals want at a price they can afford - Because although it's nice to think you need a big muscular car, the practicalities are quite different. The large Holdens simply don't have enough people who actually can afford to buy them (part from government departments) - so the only thing they could sell are imported small car designs.

It's less about consumer affordability than it is Holden/Ford's financial incapacity to invest in R&D, and competitively manufacture new models in more desirable segments. Outside of the Holden Snooze and Toyota's Camry, their whole industry remains pegged to 6 and 8 cylinder D segment cars that lost their popularity as fast as netbook computers did when the iPad was released. And they couldn't revive enough interest with turbo 4 engines and LPG systems that came too little, too late.

FTA's like the one with Thailand didn't help them much either - prior to that only a handful of pickups were exported to Oz - since TAFTA the Oz market is flooded with practically everything that's made here, all duty free. I expect the recent FTA between Aust and South Korea was final nail in Holden's coffin, seeing as their volume sellers are all rebadged Daewoos anyway

Actually you have misinterpreted my comments - I'm talking about the RESULTS of lack of R&D. The management have failed to embrace this over the last few decades and the efforts to sub-manufacture smaller models are really a joke.

The Japanese spend MASSIVE amounts on R&D and although the results may be bland cars, the success of their companies around the world is testament to this. (when did Holden ever seriously even think of manufacturing abroad (till now!)?

To have a viable motor industry these days (actually for about the last 30 years) you need to be producing over 2 million units per annum - Oz never got anywhere near this....they survived on government benefits, a kind of industrial dole..

Protectionism works on developing industries in emerging economies but after that in order to grow free trade has to be embraced - Holden were already in a poor position when tariffs were reduced on imports to Oz. But you have to admit that the products that might have sold in countries like Thailand and ASEAN are already being made there and the big saloons and utes just couldn't sell as anything more than a curiosity.

The Rodeo has always been a Japanese ute and apart from the big home grown the products that really met market needs were ALL Japanese designed - These products are Body-bolt-on- chassis designs and best suited to manufacture in low labour cost countries - deffo not Oz!. So the only way they could get built was with government aid.

- at the end of the day you haver to produce a product that will sell - the cutover has the final word - you can distort the market with government subsidies but this can only have a limited life span. Oz needs goods from abroad and has other things to sell, so it needs free-ish trade with its neighbours - the Aussie people (and retailers) benefit from this.

"Duty free in the end lets the buying public decide what they want - and it wasn't a Holden.

Edited December 12, 2013 by wilcopops

[IMHO]

Actually you have misinterpreted my comments - I'm talking about the RESULTS opt lack of R&D. The management have failed to embrace this over the last few decades and the efforts to sub-manufacture smaller models are really a joke.

The Japanese spend MASSIVE amounts on R&D and although the results may be bland cars, the success of their companies around the world is testament to this. (when did Holden ever seriously even think of manufacturing abroad (till now!)?

Protectionism works on developing industries in emerging economies but after that in order to grow free trade has to be embraced - Holden were already in a poor position when tariffs were reduced on imports to Oz. But you have to admit that the products that might have sold in countries like Thailand and ASEAN are already being made there and the big saloons and utes just couldn't sell as anything more than a curiosity.

The Rodeo has always been a Japanese ute and apart from the big home grown the products that really met market needs were ALL Japanese designed - These products are Body-bolt-on- chassis designs and best suited to manufacture in low labour cost countries - deffo not Oz!. So the only way they could get built was with government aid.

- at the end of the day you haver to produce a product that will sell - the cutover has the final word - you can distort the market with government subsidies but this can only have a limited life span. Oz needs goods from abroad and has other things to sell, so it needs free-ish trade with its neighbours - the Aussie people (and retailers) benefit from this.

"Duty free in the end lets the buying public decide what they want - and it wasn't a Holden.

I was only really responding to your statement about affordability - Aussies are spending 35K+ on cars, just not 6 cylinder Aussie made ones anymore

Anyways, I think we basically agree. I still don't understand this though:

I'm talking about the RESULTS opt lack of R&D.

I guess there are still some holes in my English

[wilcopops]

Actually you have misinterpreted my comments - I'm talking about the RESULTS opt lack of R&D. The management have failed to embrace this over the last few decades and the efforts to sub-manufacture smaller models are really a joke.

The Japanese spend MASSIVE amounts on R&D and although the results may be bland cars, the success of their companies around the world is testament to this. (when did Holden ever seriously even think of manufacturing abroad (till now!)?

Protectionism works on developing industries in emerging economies but after that in order to grow free trade has to be embraced - Holden were already in a poor position when tariffs were reduced on imports to Oz. But you have to admit that the products that might have sold in countries like Thailand and ASEAN are already being made there and the big saloons and utes just couldn't sell as anything more than a curiosity.

The Rodeo has always been a Japanese ute and apart from the big home grown the products that really met market needs were ALL Japanese designed - These products are Body-bolt-on- chassis designs and best suited to manufacture in low labour cost countries - deffo not Oz!. So the only way they could get built was with government aid.

- at the end of the day you haver to produce a product that will sell - the cutover has the final word - you can distort the market with government subsidies but this can only have a limited life span. Oz needs goods from abroad and has other things to sell, so it needs free-ish trade with its neighbours - the Aussie people (and retailers) benefit from this.

"Duty free in the end lets the buying public decide what they want - and it wasn't a Holden.

I was only really responding to your statement about affordability - Aussies are spending 35K+ on cars, just not 6 cylinder Aussie made ones anymore

Anyways, I think we basically agree. I still don't understand this though:

I'm talking about the RESULTS opt lack of R&D.

I guess there are still some holes in my English

It's not how much you spend so much as what you get for your money.

[IMHO]

Actually you have misinterpreted my comments - I'm talking about the RESULTS opt lack of R&D. The management have failed to embrace this over the last few decades and the efforts to sub-manufacture smaller models are really a joke.

The Japanese spend MASSIVE amounts on R&D and although the results may be bland cars, the success of their companies around the world is testament to this. (when did Holden ever seriously even think of manufacturing abroad (till now!)?

Protectionism works on developing industries in emerging economies but after that in order to grow free trade has to be embraced - Holden were already in a poor position when tariffs were reduced on imports to Oz. But you have to admit that the products that might have sold in countries like Thailand and ASEAN are already being made there and the big saloons and utes just couldn't sell as anything more than a curiosity.

The Rodeo has always been a Japanese ute and apart from the big home grown the products that really met market needs were ALL Japanese designed - These products are Body-bolt-on- chassis designs and best suited to manufacture in low labour cost countries - deffo not Oz!. So the only way they could get built was with government aid.

- at the end of the day you haver to produce a product that will sell - the cutover has the final word - you can distort the market with government subsidies but this can only have a limited life span. Oz needs goods from abroad and has other things to sell, so it needs free-ish trade with its neighbours - the Aussie people (and retailers) benefit from this.

"Duty free in the end lets the buying public decide what they want - and it wasn't a Holden.

I was only really responding to your statement about affordability - Aussies are spending 35K+ on cars, just not 6 cylinder Aussie made ones anymore

Anyways, I think we basically agree. I still don't understand this though:

I'm talking about the RESULTS opt lack of R&D.

I guess there are still some holes in my English

It's not how much you spend so much as what you get for your money.

Uh huh, which at 35k+ has been an SUV for the best part of a decade in Oz