Abhisit ready to defend murder case in Criminal Court

[Frank James]

It's easy to sit on the sidelines and say they should have done this or that. But now we have seen three examples (counting the disastrous airport sit-in of 2008, the red shirt siege of 2010, and now this current clown show) of a sitting government allowing a mob to occupy public spaces, endanger lives and property, etc.

It seems nothing is ever done to stop the disturbance until great damage is done. This time we have the added "attraction" of an unelected madman dictating terms to the army, police, government and media, and threatening the entire Shinawatra family with some unspecified harm. He should be arrested, so that he doesn't skip his court date 12/12.

[rubl]

It's easy to sit on the sidelines and say they should have done this or that. But now we have seen three examples (counting the disastrous airport sit-in of 2008, the red shirt siege of 2010, and now this current clown show) of a sitting government allowing a mob to occupy public spaces, endanger lives and property, etc.

It seems nothing is ever done to stop the disturbance until great damage is done. This time we have the added "attraction" of an unelected madman dictating terms to the army, police, government and media, and threatening the entire Shinawatra family with some unspecified harm. He should be arrested, so that he doesn't skip his court date 12/12.

Unlike some other madman who is already a fugitive criminal after jumping bail, k. Suthep has never shown the inclination to do the same. He has always come when bid if sometimes with asked/approved delay.

[Frank James]

I suppose things are different, but in most "developed" countries, if a warrant is issued for your arrest, it behooves the accused to turn himself in to the authorities, preferably accompanied by his lawyer. There is usually no option of running around loose, holding rallies, exhorting the masses to insurrection, etc. Or telling the cops that you'll maybe come in later, when the monks tell you it's a good day for squaring things with the law.

And can we just once skip the comparisons with the "criminal mastermind puppeteer in Dubai", Evil Incarnate? Like every one of us, he will someday have to answer for whatever he has done. Meanwhile, we have this mini-Mussolini who just cannot stop stirring up trouble, when it would be so easy to just pick him up, stuff a sock in his mouth, and write up the charges.

[Roadman]

Joke? It was televised, the reds accepting the offer, mobile phone rings, no deal.

Wait: we all remember the roadmap right? And when elections were offered?

If we want to speak the truth, we should tell the whole story...

Tell "Red shirts refused Abhisit election proposal" is a pure lie.

And we remember it being accepted as a fair deal, until...........it didn't suit somebody's plan for violent confrontation.

I think you remember not well.

They accepted but reserved their final decision until Abhisit will clear the roadmap.

It's the same idiot game that is being played now.

Abhisit in any case NEVER offere unconditional elections. He put them in a package, different to tell he offered elections to Red Shirts.

Anyway, to close the discussion. The point is: Thailand is under game of power since 2006... Whatever will be the outcome, if either Shin clan, or Suthep clan will get the power again, the tragic game will go on. No way out.

Bullshit. Whether they were in a package of a roadmap makes no difference that they were offered elections for November that year, of which the majority wanted to accept and. go home. It was not about Abhisit clearing the roadmap but the Reds making more demands like the stupidity of, and I love the irony of this now, Suthep being charged. And look who is there now being the pain in their Red asses. Edited December 11, 2013 by Roadman

[rubl]

I suppose things are different, but in most "developed" countries, if a warrant is issued for your arrest, it behooves the accused to turn himself in to the authorities, preferably accompanied by his lawyer. There is usually no option of running around loose, holding rallies, exhorting the masses to insurrection, etc. Or telling the cops that you'll maybe come in later, when the monks tell you it's a good day for squaring things with the law.

And can we just once skip the comparisons with the "criminal mastermind puppeteer in Dubai", Evil Incarnate? Like every one of us, he will someday have to answer for whatever he has done. Meanwhile, we have this mini-Mussolini who just cannot stop stirring up trouble, when it would be so easy to just pick him up, stuff a sock in his mouth, and write up the charges.

Doesn't the police first have to serve him the warrent as in hand him? airdropping was indeed a novel idea but without legal precedence it would seem.

BTW 'stuff a sock in his mouth'? Isn't that against some of those laws you seem to want to rely on?

[anon467367354]

Of course, his back is covered legally. He will be declared innocent eventually. This will infuriate the Red Shirts and the judges will then be harrassed and abused by Red Shirt groups. A lot of dirty details will come out about the Red Shirts, the Men in Black and Thaksin. Thaksin is making a mistake about going after Aphisit and Suthep.

I think this was an attempt to get Abhisit and Suthep to sign the amnesty bill, but this is going to backfire big time.

I hope the press reports on this accurately so the people can have the privilege of knowing what's been going

on for the past two years.

[Roadman]

I suppose things are different, but in most "developed" countries, if a warrant is issued for your arrest, it behooves the accused to turn himself in to the authorities, preferably accompanied by his lawyer. There is usually no option of running around loose, holding rallies, exhorting the masses to insurrection, etc. Or telling the cops that you'll maybe come in later, when the monks tell you it's a good day for squaring things with the law.

And can we just once skip the comparisons with the "criminal mastermind puppeteer in Dubai", Evil Incarnate? Like every one of us, he will someday have to answer for whatever he has done. Meanwhile, we have this mini-Mussolini who just cannot stop stirring up trouble, when it would be so easy to just pick him up, stuff a sock in his mouth, and write up the charges.

At the end of the day that is just one of the major problems in the law is just a joke. To try and sort this mess out where does one start. Even trying to draw a line in the sand or deeming that from this day forward the law will be enforced there is the mass of charges spanning past years on all sides of the political divide that would have to be resolved. Even with a major change for the better in Thai politics one feels that there would have to be an amnesty to clear the current mess. Can't believe I suggested that.

[newcomer71]

How about both you and the other waiting above both go to to page 578 on this site and actually do some reading to educate your selfs on the events of Thaksins attack on Bangkok including Abhisits offer of early elections to the Reds in May that year. Then you both can be man enough to front up with an apology.

First better you fix up your quoting.

I was talking about that offer Abhisit made in May... Abhisit NEVER offered elections alone.

He offered a roadmap that included elections, the roadmap has been accepted by Red Shirt leaders but with reserve, asking Abhisit to clear points 3 and 4.

Or if you are so kind to link me a neutral (not Bangkok Post, not The Nation) article where it affirm that Abhisit offered just elections as Red Shirts have been asked him since the beginning, I am ready to apologize to the poster who stated that.

I am a reasonable person and I can make mistakes, and (opposite to some radical TV poster here) I don't offend people around, then not a problem for me to being educated about something I don't know, if that's the case.

On a side note. I was living and working in Bkk already on that time, swearing all the time against red shirts making a trouble to move inside the area where I work...

[tingtongteesood]

If he is found guilty then AV should go to Dubai and get the room next door to Thaksin's. Difference being AV didn't do anything wrong...

[saakura]

And now let's compare Abhisit to the billionaire coward who runs away rather then come back and face charges.

Dont know, i am neutral in this. But maybe Abhisit may also have done a runner if the judiciary were to be stacked with the likes of red shirts?

[newcomer71]

I think you remember not well.

They accepted but reserved their final decision until Abhisit will clear the roadmap.

It's the same idiot game that is being played now.

Abhisit in any case NEVER offere unconditional elections. He put them in a package, different to tell he offered elections to Red Shirts.

Anyway, to close the discussion. The point is: Thailand is under game of power since 2006... Whatever will be the outcome, if either Shin clan, or Suthep clan will get the power again, the tragic game will go on. No way out.

Bullshit. Whether they were in a package of a roadmap makes no difference that they were offered elections for November that year, of which the majority wanted to accept and. go home. It was not about Abhisit clearing the roadmap but the Reds making more demands like the stupidity of, and I love the irony of this now, Suthep being charged. And look who is there now being the pain in their Red asses.

Do me a favor: avoid to reply to my posts.

We have a different idea on this matter, and I respect your point of view. You see my idea as bullshit.

So we have nothing to talk about. We keep our positions and we're good. I like to keep conversation civil, if cannot I just call myself out.

Thanks.

P.s.: in my opinion: Red Shirt leaders should have served jail for life for the irresponsibility they showed back in 2010, as Suthep should do the same now.

[tingtongteesood]

Of course, his back is covered legally. He will be declared innocent eventually. This will infuriate the Red Shirts and the judges will then be harrassed and abused by Red Shirt groups. A lot of dirty details will come out about the Red Shirts, the Men in Black and Thaksin. Thaksin is making a mistake about going after Aphisit and Suthep.

I think this was an attempt to get Abhisit and Suthep to sign the amnesty bill, but this is going to backfire big time.

I hope the press reports on this accurately so the people can have the privilege of knowing what's been going

on for the past two years.

It was ABSOLUTELY a very clumsy attempt to strongarm them into backing the amnesty bill as they would be included in the amnesty and be let off the bogus charge. Bet PT were shocked when they said NO ! They are calling PT's bluff and will go through the court case if need be knowing that there is absolutely no evidence that they did any wrong. Backing them into this corner is one of the reasons for the current trouble and now the PT fools have threatened Suthep with so many things that he must win, for him personally it is a fight for life. If the Shin's are gone then most of his problems leave with them. . PT brought the entire anti amnesty / anti government movement upon themselves with their poorly thought ( or not ) and clumsy actions.

[TVGerry]

And now let's compare Abhisit to the billionaire coward who runs away rather then come back and face charges.

Dont know, i am neutral in this. But maybe Abhisit may also have done a runner if the judiciary were to be stacked with the likes of red shirts?

Or maybe Abhisit's really innocent. And the Dubai coward isn't just a coward but also knows he's guilty.

[whybother]

I think his government's only fault in the sad events of 2010 was in not taking firm control of the situation early. They let people camp out in the streets of the capital for weeks, until things came to a boil.

They will never get a "murder" charge to stick. It's bogus, politically motivated, and just adds to the general chaos and misery we're seeing every day here. It should be thrown out of court.

He was in a no win situation. If he moved in too early, he would be accused of being dictatorial. As it was, he decided to move in after the red shirts invaded government house and Thaicom, using molotov cocktails at Thaicom.

Then it got messy after the general was blown up and the red shirt militia turned up.

[whybother]

Well, it is clear that the army under Abhisit's command did shoot 90 unarmed demonstrators in the head. That is merely a statement of fact. The question is, is he culpable (yes, since he ordered it), and was it illegal (not in Thailand).

Er

Could you please clue us in what you are talking about. Many of us were here in 2010 when Abhist had to stop an armed rebellion. We do not have a clue as to what you are talking about. I hope this is not another in 19 some thing the democrats did this story. I am getting tired of that. I wasn't here and when I arrived here Thailand was just starting into a period of attempted anarchy funded by a convicted criminal who for some reason or other choose to live in Dubai. probably to stay out of jail and avoid other charges he was guilty of.

Some of us have even been here long enough to remember that the protest was peaceful for over a month while Abhisit kept repeating that waiting for elections was the rule of law and there would be no negotiation until the protesters dispersed.

I don't remember protests having dispersed when Abhisit sat with the red shirt leaders negotiating.

[Roadman]

I think you remember not well.They accepted but reserved their final decision until Abhisit will clear the roadmap.

It's the same idiot game that is being played now.

Abhisit in any case NEVER offere unconditional elections. He put them in a package, different to tell he offered elections to Red Shirts.

Anyway, to close the discussion. The point is: Thailand is under game of power since 2006... Whatever will be the outcome, if either Shin clan, or Suthep clan will get the power again, the tragic game will go on. No way out.

Bullshit. Whether they were in a package of a roadmap makes no difference that they were offered elections for November that year, of which the majority wanted to accept and. go home. It was not about Abhisit clearing the roadmap but the Reds making more demands like the stupidity of, and I love the irony of this now, Suthep being charged. And look who is there now being the pain in their Red asses.

Do me a favor: avoid to reply to my posts.

We have a different idea on this matter, and I respect your point of view. You see my idea as bullshit.

So we have nothing to talk about. We keep our positions and we're good. I like to keep conversation civil, if cannot I just call myself out.

Thanks.

P.s.: in my opinion: Red Shirt leaders should have served jail for life for the irresponsibility they showed back in 2010, as Suthep should do the same now.

The "bullshit call" was in response to the "joke call" on my post. Part from that touché your points of view are fine. I followed the 2010 events closely and was well aware that Abhisit had offered early elections to the Reds. True the finer details are open to opinion.

And I honestly believe the majority of Reds have a genuine gripe to be answered. The issue I have is with their leadership.

[whybother]

Quite simply No. they weren't.

Even though the shenanigans that allowed individual MPs elected under the TRT banner to switch sides after getting red votes should have triggered immediate re-elections they weren't.

Quite simply during Thaksins 2010 attack on Bangkok yes they were offered early elections by PM Abhisit which they declined.

LINK?

PS : Good luck finding it. The only Red Shirt demand was new elections as a loophole in the Thai constitution had allowed individual MPs to switch sides in between elections giving the Dems enough MPs to form the "coalition".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/7679804/Thai-Red-Shirt-protesters-agree-in-principle-to-election-compromise.html

"The plan includes an offer of new elections on November 14"

MPs switch sides and cross the floor in many countries. Maybe you should do some research on the parliamentary system.

Do you think that there should have been a new election in 2007 after parties that campaigned that they wouldn't join the PPP in a coalition ended up doing so?

Maybe the PTP acting PM should have called an election after the PPP was disbanded. He decided not to and went to parliament to elect a new PM instead ... which Abhisit won.

[tingtongteesood]

I don't care much for Abhisit or what he represents, but he deserves credit for walking into the courtroom and standing up against whatever comes. Unlike his "indicted co-conspirator", the would-be dictator Suthep.

The case will go nowhere, and will ultimately be dismissed. It's a loser for PTP to pursue this.

Although for sure it's a loser for the PTP to pursue I have little sympathy for a man who while the protest was still peaceful and this started going on...

"The army were firing live rounds on civilians. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself"

Paul, British teacher

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8612783.stm

Has the same night on national Television a spokesman say:

A government spokesman denied reports that live rounds had also been fired.

"There were no live bullets fired at protesters," Panitan Wattanayagorn said on national TV, AFP agency reported.

I don't know about you but I tend to believe Paul the English teacher and if the BBC knew there is little doubt Abhisit knew too.

Is this teacher some kind of munitions expert ? How would he be able to tell the difference between rubber bullets and live rounds ? They both make the same 'BANG sound when they are fired. What did he see to say they were live rounds ? He saw one hit someone in the chest, again, rubber bullets will hit you and they will do damage if you are unlucky. Why is there no surname for this person ? Because he was made up for propaganda purposes....? Don't believe everything you read especially in foreign press who can't be bothered to research properly and report the facts and take propaganda at face value. Also bare in mind that the US media are backing Thaksin and have since before the red invasion because he is America's controllable sock puppet who allowed them to set up a torture camp here against 'the terrorists'.

[newcomer71]

I don't care much for Abhisit or what he represents, but he deserves credit for walking into the courtroom and standing up against whatever comes. Unlike his "indicted co-conspirator", the would-be dictator Suthep.

The case will go nowhere, and will ultimately be dismissed. It's a loser for PTP to pursue this.

Although for sure it's a loser for the PTP to pursue I have little sympathy for a man who while the protest was still peaceful and this started going on...

"The army were firing live rounds on civilians. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself"

Paul, British teacher

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8612783.stm

Has the same night on national Television a spokesman say:

A government spokesman denied reports that live rounds had also been fired.

"There were no live bullets fired at protesters," Panitan Wattanayagorn said on national TV, AFP agency reported.

I don't know about you but I tend to believe Paul the English teacher and if the BBC knew there is little doubt Abhisit knew too.

Is this teacher some kind of munitions expert ? How would he be able to tell the difference between rubber bullets and live rounds ? They both make the same 'BANG sound when they are fired. What did he see to say they were live rounds ? He saw one hit someone in the chest, again, rubber bullets will hit you and they will do damage if you are unlucky. Why is there no surname for this person ? Because he was made up for propaganda purposes....? Don't believe everything you read especially in foreign press who can't be bothered to research properly and report the facts and take propaganda at face value. Also bare in mind that the US media are backing Thaksin and have since before the red invasion because he is America's controllable sock puppet who allowed them to set up a torture camp here against 'the terrorists'.

Taking for granted that all you wrote is true, and we should not believe foreign media. Could you please tell me which media we should follow to get an impartial version of what happened?

I repeat: impartial.

Which source should be reliable?

[Skywalker69]

Quote: "At the same time a red-shirt leader Supprn Attawong, now deputy secretary-general of the Prime Minister, said he was asking the Department of Special Investigation to protest granting bail for Abhisit and Suthep at tomorrow’s hearing as he feared that if both had the chance to return to power, they would again abuse the power to take revenge on the red-shirt people."

I am speechless....

"As you know yourself, you know others".

[webfact]

UPDATE:

Abhisit due in court over 2010 crackdown
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva will today be indicted over his role in the 2010 military operations to disperse red-shirt demonstrators from Bangkok's streets.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/688342-abhisit-due-in-court-over-2010-crackdown/

[kimamey]

Well, it is clear that the army under Abhisit's command did shoot 90 unarmed demonstrators in the head. That is merely a statement of fact. The question is, is he culpable (yes, since he ordered it), and was it illegal (not in Thailand).

There were rules of engagement. The cases dealt with so far were killed outside those rules. The army then is responsible but will the government take them to court?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes, but who made the rules of engagement (CRES), and in what other country does rules of engagement include "live fire zones" at domestic demonstrations?

I know who made the ROE and I suspect the military gave advice on the subject. The fact is the cases heard so far show that the army shot people who weren't acting in a way that the ROE allowed them to be shot. In that case the soldiers involved were disobeying orders. Have you noticed how many military personnel are facing legal proceedings for these deaths?

I don't know if live fire zones are used in other countries but then most of the countries I know about don't have similar circumstances. I would have thought it was a precautionary measure bearing in mind the ROE permitted live fire in those areas should the need arise and if the conditions for live firing were met. In these cases it seems they weren't

Don't forget the Thai police have guns and I'm fairly certain if they needed to use them they wouldn't wait for live fire zones to be set up.

[In Town]

So your point is that it was okay for the Army to shoot the demonstrators? Or that the Army, and not CRES or Abhisit is responsible? Maybe you are right, but they are certainly guilty of displaying bad judgement in deploying armed soldiers for crowd control, a point easily made by the PMs recent softly/softly approach to the yellow demonstrators.

[northernjohn]

Well, it is clear that the army under Abhisit's command did shoot 90 unarmed demonstrators in the head. That is merely a statement of fact. The question is, is he culpable (yes, since he ordered it), and was it illegal (not in Thailand).

Er

Could you please clue us in what you are talking about. Many of us were here in 2010 when Abhist had to stop an armed rebellion. We do not have a clue as to what you are talking about. I hope this is not another in 19 some thing the democrats did this story. I am getting tired of that. I wasn't here and when I arrived here Thailand was just starting into a period of attempted anarchy funded by a convicted criminal who for some reason or other choose to live in Dubai. probably to stay out of jail and avoid other charges he was guilty of.

Some of us have even been here long enough to remember that the protest was peaceful for over a month while Abhisit kept repeating that waiting for elections was the rule of law and there would be no negotiation until the protesters dispersed.

And some of us rememberr that the red shirts started the firing and Abhist did negotiate a treaty with them twice both times to have the red shirts agree to it then back out of it.

[northernjohn]

So your point is that it was okay for the Army to shoot the demonstrators? Or that the Army, and not CRES or Abhisit is responsible? Maybe you are right, but they are certainly guilty of displaying bad judgement in deploying armed soldiers for crowd control, a point easily made by the PMs recent softly/softly approach to the yellow demonstrators.

You have been given false information. The army was there because unlikeYingluck the police did not take orders from Abhist. They cowered in the police stations.

Your point is that the army should have just stood there and let the red shirts shoot at them. After all they were the ones to start the Shooting.

What is your justification for the red shirts invading a hospital and firing rockets at a public transportation center with no military in it just civilians.

These are known facts. Are you saying the army should have just gone home like the police and let them have their way.

In a way you have a good point. Seeing as Bangkok is sinking below the sea level any way. they could have rebuilt it in a much safer locality.

Is that what your line of thinking is after all their was no justification for there armed assault.

[tingtongteesood]

I don't care much for Abhisit or what he represents, but he deserves credit for walking into the courtroom and standing up against whatever comes. Unlike his "indicted co-conspirator", the would-be dictator Suthep.

The case will go nowhere, and will ultimately be dismissed. It's a loser for PTP to pursue this.

Although for sure it's a loser for the PTP to pursue I have little sympathy for a man who while the protest was still peaceful and this started going on...

"The army were firing live rounds on civilians. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself"

Paul, British teacher

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8612783.stm

Has the same night on national Television a spokesman say:

A government spokesman denied reports that live rounds had also been fired.

"There were no live bullets fired at protesters," Panitan Wattanayagorn said on national TV, AFP agency reported.

I don't know about you but I tend to believe Paul the English teacher and if the BBC knew there is little doubt Abhisit knew too.

Is this teacher some kind of munitions expert ? How would he be able to tell the difference between rubber bullets and live rounds ? They both make the same 'BANG sound when they are fired. What did he see to say they were live rounds ? He saw one hit someone in the chest, again, rubber bullets will hit you and they will do damage if you are unlucky. Why is there no surname for this person ? Because he was made up for propaganda purposes....? Don't believe everything you read especially in foreign press who can't be bothered to research properly and report the facts and take propaganda at face value. Also bare in mind that the US media are backing Thaksin and have since before the red invasion because he is America's controllable sock puppet who allowed them to set up a torture camp here against 'the terrorists'.

Taking for granted that all you wrote is true, and we should not believe foreign media. Could you please tell me which media we should follow to get an impartial version of what happened?

I repeat: impartial.

Which source should be reliable?

Good place to start :

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html

http://thanong.tripod.com/03072001.htm

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2013/11/thailand-as-promised-regime-deploys.html

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/12/a-tale-of-two-protests-ukraine-and.html

Read these and see if you think they are correct or not....

[whybother]

So your point is that it was okay for the Army to shoot the demonstrators? Or that the Army, and not CRES or Abhisit is responsible? Maybe you are right, but they are certainly guilty of displaying bad judgement in deploying armed soldiers for crowd control, a point easily made by the PMs recent softly/softly approach to the yellow demonstrators.

The army were armed with live ammunition for crowd control. They were armed with live ammunition because the red shirts had an armed militia shooting grenades and guns at the army and civilians.

Edited December 12, 2013 by whybother

[newcomer71]

Is this teacher some kind of munitions expert ? How would he be able to tell the difference between rubber bullets and live rounds ? They both make the same 'BANG sound when they are fired. What did he see to say they were live rounds ? He saw one hit someone in the chest, again, rubber bullets will hit you and they will do damage if you are unlucky. Why is there no surname for this person ? Because he was made up for propaganda purposes....? Don't believe everything you read especially in foreign press who can't be bothered to research properly and report the facts and take propaganda at face value. Also bare in mind that the US media are backing Thaksin and have since before the red invasion because he is America's controllable sock puppet who allowed them to set up a torture camp here against 'the terrorists'.

Taking for granted that all you wrote is true, and we should not believe foreign media. Could you please tell me which media we should follow to get an impartial version of what happened?

I repeat: impartial.

Which source should be reliable?

Good place to start :

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html

http://thanong.tripod.com/03072001.htm

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2013/11/thailand-as-promised-regime-deploys.html

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/12/a-tale-of-two-protests-ukraine-and.html

Read these and see if you think they are correct or not....

Landdestroyer.com is like citing http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/ - Tony Cartalucci, well known balanced reporter!

Activist post is again a Tony Cartalucci article...

I will give a more depth look to more articles on thanong.tripod.com. Thanks for the references.

Take a look at this:

beforeitsnews.com/opinion-liberal/2013/12/the-color-revolution-in-thailand-taking-apart-cartaluccis-pro-regime-change-propaganda-2473450.html

[northernjohn]

Is this teacher some kind of munitions expert ? How would he be able to tell the difference between rubber bullets and live rounds ? They both make the same 'BANG sound when they are fired. What did he see to say they were live rounds ? He saw one hit someone in the chest, again, rubber bullets will hit you and they will do damage if you are unlucky. Why is there no surname for this person ? Because he was made up for propaganda purposes....? Don't believe everything you read especially in foreign press who can't be bothered to research properly and report the facts and take propaganda at face value. Also bare in mind that the US media are backing Thaksin and have since before the red invasion because he is America's controllable sock puppet who allowed them to set up a torture camp here against 'the terrorists'.

Taking for granted that all you wrote is true, and we should not believe foreign media. Could you please tell me which media we should follow to get an impartial version of what happened?

I repeat: impartial.

Which source should be reliable?

Good place to start :

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/08/confirmed-thailands-pro-democracy.html

http://thanong.tripod.com/03072001.htm

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2013/11/thailand-as-promised-regime-deploys.html

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/12/a-tale-of-two-protests-ukraine-and.html

Read these and see if you think they are correct or not....

Landdestroyer.com is like citing http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/ - Tony Cartalucci, well known balanced reporter!

Activist post is again a Tony Cartalucci article...

I will give a more depth look to more articles on thanong.tripod.com. Thanks for the references.

Take a look at this:

beforeitsnews.com/opinion-liberal/2013/12/the-color-revolution-in-thailand-taking-apart-cartaluccis-pro-regime-change-propaganda-2473450.html

Well I read the first paragraoh from this Chinese article

"What is really happening in Thailand? Is it a grass roots up-swell of democracy as people like Tony Cartalucci would have you believe; “the people” fighting against a corrupt government “backed by outside forces”. Or is it nothing more than yet another color revolution sponsored by the international financial class supported within Thailand by greedy oligarchs, the power hungry military monarchists and the petty bourgeoisie Business Class of the civilian population who want to exploit an opportunity to do away with the popular elected government so they can make more profits off the backs of their workers?

Enough for me I wonder how many different ways they can regurgitate this verbal nonsense.

In what way is the army backing this protest. When the Government called them they responded to the call just as they were supposed to. It was the PTP that requested there participation. It was the army that forced Suthep to talk with Yingluck.

Of course you have to have the nameless "oligarchs. And the petty bourgeoisie Business Class of the civilian population who want to exploit an opportunity to do away with the popular elected government so they can make more profits off the backs of their workers?"

Not a word about the founders of the protest people from all different walks of life protesting separately and paying for it out of their own pocket and then coming together. Let us not look at that it won't fit in with the mysterious conspirators people want to blame for their woe's.

It was a grassroots movement paid for by the people. Yes backers did come along long after the people had made it crystal clear that the only reason they were there was to improve Thailand.

[newcomer71]

Well I read the first paragraoh from this Chinese article

"What is really happening in Thailand? Is it a grass roots up-swell of democracy as people like Tony Cartalucci would have you believe; “the people” fighting against a corrupt government “backed by outside forces”. Or is it nothing more than yet another color revolution sponsored by the international financial class supported within Thailand by greedy oligarchs, the power hungry military monarchists and the petty bourgeoisie Business Class of the civilian population who want to exploit an opportunity to do away with the popular elected government so they can make more profits off the backs of their workers?

Enough for me I wonder how many different ways they can regurgitate this verbal nonsense.

In what way is the army backing this protest. When the Government called them they responded to the call just as they were supposed to. It was the PTP that requested there participation. It was the army that forced Suthep to talk with Yingluck.

Of course you have to have the nameless "oligarchs. And the petty bourgeoisie Business Class of the civilian population who want to exploit an opportunity to do away with the popular elected government so they can make more profits off the backs of their workers?"

Not a word about the founders of the protest people from all different walks of life protesting separately and paying for it out of their own pocket and then coming together. Let us not look at that it won't fit in with the mysterious conspirators people want to blame for their woe's.

It was a grassroots movement paid for by the people. Yes backers did come along long after the people had made it crystal clear that the only reason they were there was to improve Thailand.

Many people is tired of being joked by Thaksin and they have all my support... It is so evident that is became tragically funny that he is still well rooted in this country.

But... You know well how a protest can be used for target well different from the one the masses are moving for.

People want Thaksin out and new election. Leaders of protest are showing they need much more than that. And it feels so hard to believe them after listen everyday speeches and interviews from them.

Unluckily there's a total lack of unbiased information that makes "people" believing what a side or another want them to believe.

When we talk about the masses, the 95% of the protesters that came to Bangkok in hundreds of thousands will never have a voice in the "People" council. They have been used and will be from wither Suthep or Thaksin.

So sad for Thai people.