Suthep outlines Thailand's political future to media

[retsdon]

The sad fact is that every senior politician in Thailand (on both sides) would be an electoral liability that would see their party doomed at the polls were he (or she) to stand before a more sophisticated electorate. Would anyone vote for a party that had someone like Chalerm as deputry PM? Would anyone vote for a party that had Suthep as a major spokesperson? De Toqueville's observation that people get the governments they deserve could have been penned yesteday from Bangkok.

[VegasVic]

Why hasn't he been campaigning for this for years?

Well it's come at a convenient time for him to avoid going to court for the charges for murder hanging over his head. Oops bit of cynicism there. I'm not the biggest fan of Abhisit but at least he had the balls to turn up knowing they're out to get him.

Alas, somebody finally cut to the chase as to why suthep started all this nonsense-self preservation As the old saying goes make a lot of noise over here and meanwhile over there the folks will forget about my murder indictment

[MrSlatersParrot]

It seems to me the the Anti Thaksin posters here have a bee in their bonnet about the man. But he was no more corrupt than any other Thai politician. Is it because he closed the bars at 1am?

You all I presume come from a democracy. 3 times now in recent years the will of the people have spoken, and 3 times that will has been taken away by 1st of all a military coup. Of course the Generals wanted to remove Thaksin he cut defence spending by nearly 1/3 between 2001 and 2006 it has nearly doubled since then. (This is as a proportion of GDP) Next they hold elections and the winner is set aside by a court. Again the will of the people is ignored by a court controlled by a small minority of the VERY wealthy elite.

And now again we see a small minority of the Thai population take to the streets and demand a democratically elected government be brought down and led may I point out by a man who is supposed to be in court on charges of causing the deaths of 92 people!

This is about as democratic as Hitler or Stalin. 'A people's council' made up out of people he deems to be qualified (his friends and supporters) is hardly democratic.

I am holding my breath waiting for the response to having the democratic will of the people taken away from them, yet again!

This is going to lead to widespread civil strife and even possibly civil war.

Note that unlike the previous government there was no violet crackdown leading to the deaths of many people. Unlike 92 people killed (murdered) during the crackdown on May 19th 2010.

Would you be happy as a US citizen if the people of Washington decided THEY are the only people qualified to elect a government? Or would you as a UK citizen be happy if a few selected elite Londoner's where to get to choose who the next government was to be? No you wouldn't. I understand people's dislike for Thaksin but was he any more corrupt than any other Thai politician?

Suthep should be behind bars in a straight jacket, if he thinks there is not going to be a response to his plans he is clearly deluded.

There will be another election and the 'Red' shirts will win again, ask yourself why. Because as flawed as they are, their supporters are the people who live outside of Bangkok and the 'Democrats' (okay they should change that!) support base, is the elite of Bangkok and a few in the south. I hear plenty bleating on about how bad Thaksin was and about how bad his sister is but at least they where elected. No one here has any suggestions on how to fix this stalemate.

Tell me guys did you leave your country because you don't believe in a democracy? Is that why your taking the side of the Military coup leaders and the small very wealthy Elite? (That was a rhetorical question by the way!)

I am not personally interested in the murky world of Thai politics and frankly the lot of them (on both sides), belong in jail for their many nefarious activities. All I care about is friends and love ones who may get caught up in the ensuing violence!

The 92 dead were told to catch free transport out of the fire zone or suffer the consequenses.Their choice.The army were provoced as was intended.They were there for 9 months after all,i rekon that's pushing it a bit.I remember speachs about burning the city,should this just be allowed to happen in the name of the dear leaders return.Get a grip on reality.This is not a rhetorical question.

Ever hear of the term 'arbitrary execution'? There are many ways to 'rationalize' the use of lethal force but there is no way to legitimize it.

They were warned.These people were terrorists and the govt. allowed the army to remove them.Once the army was fired upon the army did what armies do.When the public take up arms it becomes legit.which will be borne out if it ever gets to court.

Actually we all know what happened. On the 10th April 2011 it all kicked off when the command and control of the army forces were taken out (blown up) by others amongst them. soldiers, MIB?

Subsequent speeches by red shirt leaders were made in a spirit of defiance.

Simply put. should you decide to mow us down we will burn down your malls.

A stand-off but it wasn't was it. Not for long.

There has never been an investigation into the burning down of Central world so it cannot be categorically shown that the red shirts were responsible.

[Zolt]

The 92 dead were told to catch free transport out of the fire zone or suffer the consequenses.Their choice.The army were provoced as was intended.They were there for 9 months after all,i rekon that's pushing it a bit.I remember speachs about burning the city,should this just be allowed to happen in the name of the dear leaders return.Get a grip on reality.This is not a rhetorical question.

Actually the army had been using live ammo from about a week before they finally gave that ultimatum and went in. People wandering in front of the army lines would get shot at without warning on sight. A lot got killed that way and a foreign journalist was injured to (despite wearing a press armband)

On the day the army went in there was no "free transport out of the zone", there were only some "safe zones" that were designated, mostly the large temple between Siam Paragon and Centralworld.

Several people were shot and killed inside the grounds of that temps, many eyewitnesses and pictures indicate soldiers up on the BTS track shooting into the temple grounds.

So in short, it's not nearly was black and white as you describe. It was the worse slaughter in Bangkok in modern history, possibly event eclipsing the 1992 massacre. No one comes out of that clean. Not the ones who ordered the shooting, and not the red shirts either. Red shirt leaders for that protest have already been indicted and tried for the most part, as well as several arsonists and looters. On the then-government side on the other hand, victim's families have been clamoring in vain for any advance in the cases.

[MrSlatersParrot]

Let's imagine a Thailand without Suthep and his demonstration:

1) Dr T is back and cleared of all wrongdoings>> Not. Senate (50% appointed) rejected the Amnesty bill.

2) His confiscated money is returned to him with %

>> Not: The top appeals court ruled to seize 2/3rds of his frozen assets.

3) 2.2 trillion loan is ready and waiting for further instruction to which private account to transfer it.

>> Not: Constitutional court is reviewing it first.

4) senators are wifes and family members of lower house MPs which means that whatever party get's the majority of votes have no one to be accountable to.

>> Not: Unless a charter amendment passes (Constitutional court blocks it), Senat is still 50% appointed.

>> Government is still accountable to: Constitutional court, NACC, Supreme Administrative Court, HM the King, and of course the general public, as per the next election.

5) Dr T can run for PM, or maybe since the constitution can be amended any way the goverment wants, for even more lucrative position.

>> Not: Again, amnesty bill as above.

None of what you say is true. (Additions in red mine)

The 2007 constitution implemented several institutions, outside of the control of the elected government, to limit the power of a single-party majority. And so far, they have done exactly that, maybe even a little too well.

Suthep's antics have achieved exactly nothing.

BS if you can't see what was happening then your either totally brainwashed or simply totally naive Suphet has put a brake on Taksins plan to totally take 100% control of Thailand and make it into his own 1 party police state.

we will see if Taksin still gets his way and then if he does you will see in a few years how totally blind you are

All it needs to put Thailand n a decent track is for the megalomaniac and his clan to step down for good and then like magic Suphet will be irrelevant. Since that wont happen Suphet or his replacement are needed to stop one of most evil people in this world namely the coward hiding away in Dubai or wherever.

Until Taksin gives up Thailand is set on a course for civil war or an army coup

The trouble with Taksin supporters such as yourself is you simply cannot understand that a large number of people even if a very large minority hate and loathe Taksin much more than paid and brainwashed hate and loathe the so called hoses in BKK

Seriously, you are another anti taksin poster, if the majority of the thai people selected them and you are consider the minority opposition, you guy don't even respect the law or the HM. Listen to that crazy suthep that doesn't even respect HM or the law, telling lie that if there's not enough supporter he will surrender himself yet till now he still talk like he's the king of Thailand and act like one "clean" person, he's way worst than AV and Dr.T

Why Interpol and other countries not stepping in to help Thailand because of the coup that created by the elitist, royalist & people that paid the chief of army.

I have been in Thailand since the 2006 coup

Remember dr.t is self exile not kick out by the unelected govt

The people council Secretary General is suthep himself that also mean he control everything himself

How can that be fair in selection where all the elitist or scholar come in again to bully the poor

Come on, in this world, nothing is fair, but respect the majority people in the country

If you can't even do that, don't call yourself a god trying to reform the govt. you are not even fit to post here to talk abt reform

Seriously, you are just another Shin-rouge Thaksin supporter, supporting a tried, convicted, sentenced fugitive from Thai law. THAT's why he's in "self-imposed exile", which is a euphemism for "on the lamb". And THIS is the hero you're lecturing your fellow TV members about - lol. And you DO know that PTP received 48% of the popular vote in 2011, right? Not 51%, not 50%+1, not 50%, 48% (well, 48.4% if memory serves...).

Most of all, DON'T try to dictate who is and who is not "fit" to post here. Mind your manners.

Ask both of them go to prison together and stop talking abt power

Taksin is tried by a coup which is not legal in anywhere only in Thailand

This is one of the worst part that other country leader don't accept Thailand

Don't stay in Thailand and read the news

Go out and know more

I agree

On the one hand we have suthep calling for the 300 baht minimum wage to be scratched and/ or reduced ( our new maid went to the suthep demonstrations where she was paid 200 baht, 300 baht for men! Sex discrimination).

On the other hand in Indonesia they have just had a 3 day national strike to raise by 60% their minimum wage of the equivalent of 300 baht.

These are demands of the people for a living wage against a Thai elite who demands poverty and therefore eternal subserviance for the poor.

Yellow supporters go figure

[MrSlatersParrot]

You want me to give you a list of PTP's wrongdoings which you would regard undemocratic, let me try to remember few

1.an attempt at the whole rewrite of constitution was stopped by CC

2. attempt to make unconstitutional amendments were stopped by CC

3. Vote fraud by coalition MP's condemned by CC

4.Unanimous passage of undemocratic amnesty bill( there is no court ruling on that but i hope you see the reason and admit the nature of that peace of legislation )

5. Numerous confirmation of the ruling party that a convicted criminal and a foreign national is having a heavy influence on ruling political party ( that could be considered treason)

6. double standart policies applied to anti and pro goverment protesters.

The list would be much longer if public could get a results on those commeettees and panels that PM set to investigate RIce scheme, water managment projects, Dr.T's passport etc but I am afraid not much would be found since a defendant is able to appoint a person to investigate oneself.

The democracy word that you like to use so much means the rule of people but all i saw so far from PTP is working against the people, they caused unprecedented damage to the economy of the country and the goverment is still unclear how much money they have actually lost, do you consider this democratic?

Thai democracy is anything but a rule of people, reform is badly needed. I am sorry but if you still don't realize that then i can't help you. Go talk to some Thais that are politically aware of the situation maybe then you will change your mind.

The whole country is united in one thing- they want change but then you come and say "no, it's working fine, just as intended"

Contrary to your belief, I do talk to Thais - every day - and they are just normal working or retired people. And I don't find the unanimity in thought you assert. That's why the only true barometer of how people feel about an issue is an election. You have your personal beliefs and so do I. Just read the news that Suthep tried to get the Army to come over to the PDRC side. How does that fit into your scheme of things of having the police and military free from outside influence? If I there is any Thai group for which I would identify a philosophical alignment, it would be Nitirat. Be that as it may. No democracy is perfect, my friend. No democracy works 'just fine'. If the whole country is united as you say, then you should not be afraid of an election and knowing the true will of the people. I respect your opinions even though I disagree with them. I think Patrick Henry said something about that some time ago. You can't create a utopia. It doesn't mean you can't always work to improve things - we all should. It is just a matter of how you do that. You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

" You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater."

You took the line I was planning to use!

This so clearly describes the flaws in this attempt to proscribe Thailand's fledgling attempted democracy.

Democracy ain't perfect but it' s the best thing we've found.

The Thai elite are just not up to speed.

As to the Attorney general I think he was appointed by the democrats.

Here we have a court setting itself above the legislature. Accepting petitions not approved by the AG outside the constitution

The legislature seek reform but the court for its own reasons (and bizarre they have been) claims supremacy.

So we have parliament unable to enact legislation constantly harried by an opposition pressing from the outset of this parliament for impeachment of all and sundry.

Clearly the 2006 constitution from an illegal constitution can only work for one side only.

In short there cannot be a functioning democracy with the wrong side in power.

[Pompey50]

It seems to me the the Anti Thaksin posters here have a bee in their bonnet about the man. But he was no more corrupt than any other Thai politician. Is it because he closed the bars at 1am?

You all I presume come from a democracy. 3 times now in recent years the will of the people have spoken, and 3 times that will has been taken away by 1st of all a military coup. Of course the Generals wanted to remove Thaksin he cut defence spending by nearly 1/3 between 2001 and 2006 it has nearly doubled since then. (This is as a proportion of GDP) Next they hold elections and the winner is set aside by a court. Again the will of the people is ignored by a court controlled by a small minority of the VERY wealthy elite.

And now again we see a small minority of the Thai population take to the streets and demand a democratically elected government be brought down and led may I point out by a man who is supposed to be in court on charges of causing the deaths of 92 people!

This is about as democratic as Hitler or Stalin. 'A people's council' made up out of people he deems to be qualified (his friends and supporters) is hardly democratic.

I am holding my breath waiting for the response to having the democratic will of the people taken away from them, yet again!

This is going to lead to widespread civil strife and even possibly civil war.

Note that unlike the previous government there was no violet crackdown leading to the deaths of many people. Unlike 92 people killed (murdered) during the crackdown on May 19th 2010.

Would you be happy as a US citizen if the people of Washington decided THEY are the only people qualified to elect a government? Or would you as a UK citizen be happy if a few selected elite Londoner's where to get to choose who the next government was to be? No you wouldn't. I understand people's dislike for Thaksin but was he any more corrupt than any other Thai politician?

Suthep should be behind bars in a straight jacket, if he thinks there is not going to be a response to his plans he is clearly deluded.

There will be another election and the 'Red' shirts will win again, ask yourself why. Because as flawed as they are, their supporters are the people who live outside of Bangkok and the 'Democrats' (okay they should change that!) support base, is the elite of Bangkok and a few in the south. I hear plenty bleating on about how bad Thaksin was and about how bad his sister is but at least they where elected. No one here has any suggestions on how to fix this stalemate.

Tell me guys did you leave your country because you don't believe in a democracy? Is that why your taking the side of the Military coup leaders and the small very wealthy Elite? (That was a rhetorical question by the way!)

I am not personally interested in the murky world of Thai politics and frankly the lot of them (on both sides), belong in jail for their many nefarious activities. All I care about is friends and love ones who may get caught up in the ensuing violence!

The 92 dead were told to catch free transport out of the fire zone or suffer the consequenses.Their choice.The army were provoced as was intended.They were there for 9 months after all,i rekon that's pushing it a bit.I remember speachs about burning the city,should this just be allowed to happen in the name of the dear leaders return.Get a grip on reality.This is not a rhetorical question.

So does this excuse the 9 year old boy shot in the head by a sniper or the people sheltering in the temple who where shot by army sniper's The whole world accepts places like a temple as sanctuary, yet these evil pigs murdered people in a temple, including medical staff! In any other democracy the government leaders who gave the orders to use force would have been behind bars years ago.

In every democracy you have a right to protest. Just look at the different way it was dealt with recently, when the protesters went to the police HQ they had taken the barriers down and invited them in! No guns or bullets.

I also think you need to check your facts Look at the HRW report and see who was resposable for what. And 9 Months...... No I don't think they where there for 9 months!

[Pompey50]

It seems to me the the Anti Thaksin posters here have a bee in their bonnet about the man. But he was no more corrupt than any other Thai politician. Is it because he closed the bars at 1am?

You all I presume come from a democracy. 3 times now in recent years the will of the people have spoken, and 3 times that will has been taken away by 1st of all a military coup. Of course the Generals wanted to remove Thaksin he cut defence spending by nearly 1/3 between 2001 and 2006 it has nearly doubled since then. (This is as a proportion of GDP) Next they hold elections and the winner is set aside by a court. Again the will of the people is ignored by a court controlled by a small minority of the VERY wealthy elite.

And now again we see a small minority of the Thai population take to the streets and demand a democratically elected government be brought down and led may I point out by a man who is supposed to be in court on charges of causing the deaths of 92 people!

This is about as democratic as Hitler or Stalin. 'A people's council' made up out of people he deems to be qualified (his friends and supporters) is hardly democratic.

I am holding my breath waiting for the response to having the democratic will of the people taken away from them, yet again!

This is going to lead to widespread civil strife and even possibly civil war.

Note that unlike the previous government there was no violet crackdown leading to the deaths of many people. Unlike 92 people killed (murdered) during the crackdown on May 19th 2010.

Would you be happy as a US citizen if the people of Washington decided THEY are the only people qualified to elect a government? Or would you as a UK citizen be happy if a few selected elite Londoner's where to get to choose who the next government was to be? No you wouldn't. I understand people's dislike for Thaksin but was he any more corrupt than any other Thai politician?

Suthep should be behind bars in a straight jacket, if he thinks there is not going to be a response to his plans he is clearly deluded.

There will be another election and the 'Red' shirts will win again, ask yourself why. Because as flawed as they are, their supporters are the people who live outside of Bangkok and the 'Democrats' (okay they should change that!) support base, is the elite of Bangkok and a few in the south. I hear plenty bleating on about how bad Thaksin was and about how bad his sister is but at least they where elected. No one here has any suggestions on how to fix this stalemate.

Tell me guys did you leave your country because you don't believe in a democracy? Is that why your taking the side of the Military coup leaders and the small very wealthy Elite? (That was a rhetorical question by the way!)

I am not personally interested in the murky world of Thai politics and frankly the lot of them (on both sides), belong in jail for their many nefarious activities. All I care about is friends and love ones who may get caught up in the ensuing violence!

The 92 dead were told to catch free transport out of the fire zone or suffer the consequenses.Their choice.The army were provoced as was intended.They were there for 9 months after all,i rekon that's pushing it a bit.I remember speachs about burning the city,should this just be allowed to happen in the name of the dear leaders return.Get a grip on reality.This is not a rhetorical question.

Ever hear of the term 'arbitrary execution'? There are many ways to 'rationalize' the use of lethal force but there is no way to legitimize it.

They were warned.These people were terrorists and the govt. allowed the army to remove them.Once the army was fired upon the army did what armies do.When the public take up arms it becomes legit.which will be borne out if it ever gets to court.

You really need to learn and understand what the term terrorist means. They where people, men women and children protesting against the non elected government of Abhist. A government appointed by the elite and run by the elite. Would you be happy in your home country if a government was appointed above that of an elected government? No you wouldn't. Abhist was NOT a democratically elected leader. He was a stooge for the elite.

[bkkfaranguy]

Also it was a peacfull protest until the elites had the Reds miltary speaker snipped and killed right before there eyes when he was giving a speech

[benden25]

Instead of spending all this time and money on the fantasy of a "People's Council" he should be learning how to play the politics game. In every country that holds elections votes are bought and sold, this is in no way exclusive to Thailand. In the US the Republicans support farm subsidies (not all that different than the rice buying schemes) which buys them the farming state votes. President Obama bailed out the Auto Industry which effectively bought him all Michigan and Ohio (two swing states) in last year's election. The problem for the Dem's is they need an actual politician to lead them instead of this raving lunatic who sounds more and more like a dictator with each speech he makes. Suthep will be the downfall of the Dems. Through this entire process he has looked like a thug while Yingluck has looked like a passionate leaders trying to save her country. Who do you think other nations want to support, the thug who is starting to sound like the next Pol Pot or the leader who is doing everything possible to avoid violence?

[jayjayjayjay]

Sutep is clearly a fascist nutcase. I hope tomorrows Jan 13th is a complete and utter failure. Business as usual. If any of my staff use sick leave tomorrow as an excuse I will issue warnings. Business leave without pay is there prerogative, but none of this Thai bullshit to take a free day of to join the party (and get paid for it).