Anti-govt protesters refuse to attend Thai govt forum on political reform

[Dragon33]

what would be the point of attending a government reform forum? both parties, the entire thai government and all thai government officials do not want reform, they would lose too much money from their own pockets, no matter which party is in power, it is all about money, greed and corruption and always will be. the only thing that ever changes is which group of corrupt officials are getting the biggest cut of the pie. ahh... why waste my time, it will never change

[farangbanok]

I think it is very unfair to keep likening K. (khwai?) Suthep to a monkey!

[Tedhead]

It's all starting to unravel for Suthep and it's barely just begun.

Suthep got people out on the street, to overturn the result (and government) of a free, democratic election.

Suthep succeeded in getting that freely elected government to stand down and call fresh elections.

And now...

Suthep knows that if they have fresh elections, he'll lose. This wild speculation is based on the fact that the party that serves his interests has lost every election for the past two decades.

So Suthep wants something, but he doesn't want another defeat at the ballot box.

So what is it Suthep wants? Why cause all this upheaval if you can't win the support of the majority of ordinary Thai people? And why now?

The answer to all these things is that Suthep sees that, at long last, the Bangkok elite and its constituent parts, had decided to let the will of the people (much though some here might despise its judgement) run its course.

The Bangkok elite had apparently quietly decided that it was getting ludicrous - and internationally, looking ludicrous - to keep banning, dissolving and otherwise impeding the winners of each election. They may not like it (they certainly didn't) but at some point it becomes impossible to maintain the pretense of a modern liberal democracy if the results of elections are never honoured.

So Suthep gets his own rent-a-mob onto the streets and starts agitating for a non-democratic solution to his problem. it wouldn't matter if Mother Teresa and all the saints in heaven were seated opposite him, Suthep doesn't want to engage in any negotiations that give him less reason and ability to contest the results of elections in the future.

The rent-a-mob are there to provoke the Bangkok elite to, once again, interfere in the democratic process when it appears to Suthep that recently they had decided not to.

Suthep's endgame is the suspension of democracy and the installation of a pseudo-democratic unelected council. It has to be, because he keeps losing at the alternative.

[Frank James]

Whenever the topic of an election comes up, accusations are made about vote buying. Some have alleged that 300 - 500 baht are paid for each vote. Well, if 15 million people voted for PT, and each vote got only 100 baht, that comes out to 1 Billion, Five Hundred Million Baht (1,500,000,000 BT) or about Fifty Million Dollars (USD). I don't think even Doctor T would willingly part with that much scratch, especially if were crystal clear that his side was going to win handily.

If only a third of the votes were bought @ 300 Bt, the end amount is still the same. Now, I know it is a fact that some people are paid for their votes. My wife said this was quite common in her home village in Isaan, although not universal, and not coerced.

There's probably an error in my thinking here, and I'm sure some of you will be glad to set me straight.

I know the topic wasn't about vote buying, but the radical Dem element is threatening to boycott the election, and this charge always comes up.

[Tedhead]

Whenever the topic of an election comes up, accusations are made about vote buying. Some have alleged that 300 - 500 baht are paid for each vote. Well, if 15 million people voted for PT, and each vote got only 100 baht, that comes out to 1 Billion, Five Hundred Million Baht (1,500,000,000 BT) or about Fifty Million Dollars (USD). I don't think even Doctor T would willingly part with that much scratch, especially if were crystal clear that his side was going to win handily.

If only a third of the votes were bought @ 300 Bt, the end amount is still the same. Now, I know it is a fact that some people are paid for their votes. My wife said this was quite common in her home village in Isaan, although not universal, and not coerced.

There's probably an error in my thinking here, and I'm sure some of you will be glad to set me straight.

I know the topic wasn't about vote buying, but the radical Dem element is threatening to boycott the election, and this charge always comes up.

Thaksin didn't create the political climate of corruption, he inherited it and continued a decades-long tradition.

The Democrat Party pretty much invented corruption in Thai politics and that includes vote buying.

International observers alleged systematic and widespread Democrat vote-buying in Hat Yai and Trang in the eighties and nineties - direct money for votes - onto which they layered the shovelling of of government contracts to influential supporters and the parcelling out of land, such as occurred on Phuket and brought down one of the last elected Democrat governments in the eighties.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/20459/the-democrats-vote-buying-and-suthep/

[Doodles]

How can any of the "political/election reform" forums begin to accomplish anything when all the cards are not allowed on the table? There is an elephant in the room.

[tingtongteesood]

I don't think Suthep is interested in solving the problems, having an election or obeying the King's ruling. It seems all he wants is to do is cause sheite.

1) I want an election "ok we will have an election" Ok I don't want an election.

2) Oh I'm being indicted for Murder? Oh just wait while I start another rally and add a few more to my bill

3) We need to resolve Thailand's political unrest. "Ok lets have a Governemt reform meeting and we will discus this issue" No I won't attend !

I think if they just arrest him and make him dissapear things would go alot smoother for Thailand right now.

To address your grievances one by one :

1 ) Did he ever actually say he wanted an election ? I don't believe so. All he has ever said he wanted was the government to step down and the Shin family to leave off. 1 out of 2 so far. But Thaksin won't let his puppet have a rest.

2 ) The 'charges' against him are pure premeditated bullshit designed to strong arm him and Abhisit into agreeing to the bullshit amnesty as they would have been let off these charges if they agreed and tyhe bill was passed. It didn't work because unlike some people, they actually have backbones. Why should he give it a second thought since it was purely politically motivated ?

3 ) Why should he waste his time ? It is just the illigitimate law breaking constitution ignoring ex administration of idiots trying to waste time and hold out till forced amnesty day mark 2....

I applaud what Suthep has achieved so far and hope he manages to get the Shin regime banned from politics soon.

[tingtongteesood]

It's all starting to unravel for Suthep and it's barely just begun.

Suthep got people out on the street, to overturn the result (and government) of a free, democratic election.

Suthep succeeded in getting that freely elected government to stand down and call fresh elections.

And now...

Suthep knows that if they have fresh elections, he'll lose. This wild speculation is based on the fact that the party that serves his interests has lost every election for the past two decades.

So Suthep wants something, but he doesn't want another defeat at the ballot box.

So what is it Suthep wants? Why cause all this upheaval if you can't win the support of the majority of ordinary Thai people? And why now?

The answer to all these things is that Suthep sees that, at long last, the Bangkok elite and its constituent parts, had decided to let the will of the people (much though some here might despise its judgement) run its course.

The Bangkok elite had apparently quietly decided that it was getting ludicrous - and internationally, looking ludicrous - to keep banning, dissolving and otherwise impeding the winners of each election. They may not like it (they certainly didn't) but at some point it becomes impossible to maintain the pretense of a modern liberal democracy if the results of elections are never honoured.

So Suthep gets his own rent-a-mob onto the streets and starts agitating for a non-democratic solution to his problem. it wouldn't matter if Mother Teresa and all the saints in heaven were seated opposite him, Suthep doesn't want to engage in any negotiations that give him less reason and ability to contest the results of elections in the future.

The rent-a-mob are there to provoke the Bangkok elite to, once again, interfere in the democratic process when it appears to Suthep that recently they had decided not to.

Suthep's endgame is the suspension of democracy and the installation of a pseudo-democratic unelected council. It has to be, because he keeps losing at the alternative.

Correction : your beloved PT government bought their way into power with a rigged election ( Thaksin has 3 parties dissolved for electoral fraud so I can only assume they didn't get caught this time ) and with CRAZY populist policies such as the rice scam which has almost ruined the country. You say they were 'democratically' elected, but if you are the government then you must abide by the democracy, follow the constitution and obey the laws - there is also an expectation that you should try and do things in the interests of the country - PT has never at any time cared about these 3 things, they broke the laws, ignored the constitution and everything they have done has been to help the fugitive. As for the rest of your drivel I just stopped reading as I have better things to spend brain cells on....

[gamini]

The PM's not attending her own forum, why should we be surprised anyone else isn't?

she has aleady stated all present PTP mp's will have the first choice to contest the next elections This means all the corrupt ones in her party and all those with outstanding corruption and criminal ncases wiil be allowed to stand again. I.e. absolutely no reform. so what is the point of anyone joining her reform process. The first demand will be for her to ban all these people from politics but she has already made it cleat she will field them.

[DGIE]

Suthep surrounded by members of the Thai Elite and industrial heavyweights of Thai business corporations.

The manufacturer of whistle sold a lot to the protesters.

The manufacturer is hoping the red shirts will also use whistles when they do their part on the road.

[englishoak]

It's all starting to unravel for Suthep and it's barely just begun.

Suthep got people out on the street, to overturn the result (and government) of a free, democratic election.

Suthep succeeded in getting that freely elected government to stand down and call fresh elections.

And now...

Suthep knows that if they have fresh elections, he'll lose. This wild speculation is based on the fact that the party that serves his interests has lost every election for the past two decades.

So Suthep wants something, but he doesn't want another defeat at the ballot box.

So what is it Suthep wants? Why cause all this upheaval if you can't win the support of the majority of ordinary Thai people? And why now?

The answer to all these things is that Suthep sees that, at long last, the Bangkok elite and its constituent parts, had decided to let the will of the people (much though some here might despise its judgement) run its course.

The Bangkok elite had apparently quietly decided that it was getting ludicrous - and internationally, looking ludicrous - to keep banning, dissolving and otherwise impeding the winners of each election. They may not like it (they certainly didn't) but at some point it becomes impossible to maintain the pretense of a modern liberal democracy if the results of elections are never honoured.

So Suthep gets his own rent-a-mob onto the streets and starts agitating for a non-democratic solution to his problem. it wouldn't matter if Mother Teresa and all the saints in heaven were seated opposite him, Suthep doesn't want to engage in any negotiations that give him less reason and ability to contest the results of elections in the future.

The rent-a-mob are there to provoke the Bangkok elite to, once again, interfere in the democratic process when it appears to Suthep that recently they had decided not to.

Suthep's endgame is the suspension of democracy and the installation of a pseudo-democratic unelected council. It has to be, because he keeps losing at the alternative.

I would agree with mostly all except this part, it is impossible for Suthep to both do or say some of the things he has been publicly demanding without serious high up elite approva but the rest of the post id agree with.

Suthep is a gambler with little to lose but he is a fanatic prepared to go all the way, the people behind will happily let it run if Suthep gets them what they would like or simply walk away when it becomes too uncomfortable, they will not be blamed if it goes bad and take the prize if it succeeds...

[nong38]

If you turn down the offer to participate in reform then you lose all credibility, a month wasted, what a surprise!