Vaccines for new born

[Till]

Hi guys, recently i have been blessed with a little boy and his mother and I we could´t be happier. Doctor and hospital was good money at the end. Too much since only one of us has a job right now. So, after paying the delivery bills I though this is it but i was wrong: now we start with the vaccines. I checked few hospitals and all of them work in the same way: they offer a vaccination package.

Let´s have a look to the six moths package: starting from 1,500 bahts and going as high as 20,000 bahts. But that is not all. Each time you go to the hospital you have to pay the doctor fee and other fees (and maybe nurse fee also). So, at the end it is a 1,000 bath or more each visit. That, at the end, it is a lot of money for our pocket! Do you recommend a clinic for vaccines? What options do I have? Can you recommend me a hospital?

Thank you guys

[Neeranam]

I went to Bamrungrad for one kid, as she was born there, and they were very reasonable for the quaity.

The other one we went to a cheap local clinic which was about 800 baht a time.

Congratulations.

If you think this is a big expense, you'd better start working more or change job as they get more expensive every year.

[Soutpeel]

I went to Bamrungrad for one kid, as she was born there, and they were very reasonable for the quaity.

The other one we went to a cheap local clinic which was about 800 baht a time.

Congratulations.

If you think this is a big expense, you'd better start working more or change job as they get more expensive every year.

Yeap the delivery and vaccination bit is the cheap bit and as the years go on its gets more and more expensive usually/hopefully ending when the child is about 30 - 35

[Till]

I went to Bamrungrad for one kid, as she was born there, and they were very reasonable for the quaity.

The other one we went to a cheap local clinic which was about 800 baht a time.

Congratulations.

If you think this is a big expense, you'd better start working more or change job as they get more expensive every year.

Yeap the delivery and vaccination bit is the cheap bit and as the years go on its gets more and more expensive usually/hopefully ending when the child is about 30 - 35

OMG! Is it getting worse? I hope I will not finish as one of the many foreigners who moved to Thailand expecting..

a more relaxed life..

..and finish working from sun to sun.

[yankee99]

If your wife is thai she can go to the government hospital and the shots are free. You can look at the bottles and all made by major pharmaceutical companies. Fyi there are a lot of shots they give you a card to keep track. They also have teeth cleaning for free...

[farang000999]

OP is in for a bunch of surprises...

[David48]

In the Health Forum 3 months ago, a Father with a new born enquired about the same ...

From the Mod who runs that Forum ...

The Thai Ministry of public Health has a very clear set of guidelines for immunization and this is what hospitals follow. It is carefully thought through and consistent with guidelines form the Word Health Organization etc. The MoPH doe not stand to gain financially by reocmmending unnecessary vaccines; quite the contrary. There are a few costly vaccines which are recommended but not yet provided by the government system (cost issue..they will eventually get added). You will find the list of recommended vaccines on page 16 of the following:

http://110.164.68.234/infotech/files/Vac%20child&adult.pdf

Regarding the vaccines listed under "private" but not "government" on that schedule:

PCV is against a common type of pneumonia and has been proven to reduce infant mortality.

Rotavirus protects against a common cause of diarrhea in children, also proven effective.

HAV is Hep A vaccine. Currently the government pays only for Hep B vaccinated as Hep B is more serious whereas Hep A less so, but having your child get Hepatitis A is certainly not desirable and Hep A vaccine is certainly advisable.

All 3 of these vaccines are routinely given in western countries and are recommended for infants by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) of the US Centers for Disease Control.

All the vaccines listed under the government hospital schedule are also recommended by the CDC, although in the case of JE only for people traveling to countries where JE is endemic (Thailand most definitely qualifies).

I have not personally heard if any hospital trying to "sell extra" vaccines for a newborn not on this schedule and can't really imagine what those might consist of.

BTW if the child's mother is Thai, he is eligible for all but the PCV, Rotavirus and Hep A vaccines free of charge at a government hospital or health center (just as the mother was eligible for free delivery). So if you are concerned about saving money, get only these 3 at the private facility and the rest at government hospital/health center.

So, from above ...

if the child's mother is Thai, he is eligible for all but the PCV, Rotavirus and Hep A vaccines free of charge at a government hospital or health centre (just as the mother was eligible for free delivery). So if you are concerned about saving money, get only these 3 at the private facility and the rest at government hospital/health centre.

The vaccine thread is here ... vaccine

.

[khunPer]

If mum is Thai (child is Thai citizen) you are eligible in the Thai health care system at the local hospital. There may be a cue and waiting time. Mum & son should have a government “baby-book” with vaccination program etc.

If you choose private hospital or clinics you will be charged a fee. For my Thai daughter the local hospital was used in the beginning and since moving out of village we used private hospital with a child department (Bangkok Hospital), but that was quite affordable – we followed the “book” and hospital doctor’s recommendations – knowing price is relative, but a few thousand bath, never anything like 10,000 or 20,000.

I think the above advice from David48 is good and worth considering.

Good luck to the new family.

[Rooo]

Moving to health forum.

[FiftyTwo]

If your wife is thai she can go to the government hospital and the shots are free. You can look at the bottles and all made by major pharmaceutical companies. Fyi there are a lot of shots they give you a card to keep track. They also have teeth cleaning for free...

Not only are the vaccinations free, but 2 weekly check-ups (dropping to monthly over 6 months), home visits, all medications and vitamins. Paying for private after-care is pointless. All info recorded in the free baby record book they provide.

I was totally shocked that the Thai government hospital care for new babies was better than the UK NHS service provided.

Not much more waiting around either.

Edited December 19, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[FiftyTwo]

geez!!! poor baby!!

you just said you had a wonderful beautiful baby,, and i am sure its in lovely health,,, and you are now going to inject it with vaccines and a life of medical treatments!!!

There is no option to not vaccinate a child in Thailand.

If you say no, they take the kid behind a screen and inject anyway.

If you manage to avoid the compulsory vaccinations, they won't let the kid attend school until they are done.

[txp158]

The choice in getting your child vaccinated is yours. But don't forget the fact that polio, measle, and other virus related illnesses has declined greatly after the invention of vaccines.

If you live in bankok and you don't want to pay for the vaccine for any reason. You can get them all free of charge (children or infant baby only) at any public healthcare centers (ศูนย์บริการสาธารณสุข) which are operated by Bangkok metropolitan administration. They also accept donation. If you want them to continue the service, 10-100 bahts would be appropriate. And your child is not required to be a citizen to get the free vaccine either.

Edited December 19, 2013 by txp158

[Sheryl]

A number of wildly inaccurate and dangerously misleading posts have been deleted in keeping with forum rules against posting statements that are not factually true.

The value and safety of vaccines has been proven beyond any scientific doubt, and possible linkage between vaccination and autism has been carefully investigated and disproven. Autism starts to present at the age when children complete there initial vaccination series, that is all.

There is a very. very low incidence of side effects that are associated with vaccines, usually mild ones. The benefit of vaccination far outweighs the risks.

Scaremongering about vaccination can and has cost children their lives. It will not be tolerated on this forum.

OP: as noted above, if your child is Thai, can get most vaccines free of charge at a government hospital or health center.

If not and if you are in Bangkok, suggest you try Saint Louis Hospital on Sathorn for the most reasonable private price.

[Sceptict11]

A number of wildly inaccurate and dangerously misleading posts have been deleted in keeping with forum rules against posting statements that are not factually true.

The value and safety of vaccines has been proven beyond any scientific doubt, and possible linkage between vaccination and autism has been carefully investigated and disproven. Autism starts to present at the age when children complete there initial vaccination series, that is all.

There is a very. very low incidence of side effects that are associated with vaccines, usually mild ones. The benefit of vaccination far outweighs the risks.

Scaremongering about vaccination can and has cost children their lives. It will not be tolerated on this forum.

OP: as noted above, if your child is Thai, can get most vaccines free of charge at a government hospital or health center.

If not and if you are in Bangkok, suggest you try Saint Louis Hospital on Sathorn for the most reasonable private price.

you are completely wrong please provide backup for your outrageous claims

If you believe Sheryl is wrong in her assertions then provide the evidence or butt out !

Reported

[Soutpeel]

A number of wildly inaccurate and dangerously misleading posts have been deleted in keeping with forum rules against posting statements that are not factually true.

The value and safety of vaccines has been proven beyond any scientific doubt, and possible linkage between vaccination and autism has been carefully investigated and disproven. Autism starts to present at the age when children complete there initial vaccination series, that is all.

There is a very. very low incidence of side effects that are associated with vaccines, usually mild ones. The benefit of vaccination far outweighs the risks.

Scaremongering about vaccination can and has cost children their lives. It will not be tolerated on this forum.

OP: as noted above, if your child is Thai, can get most vaccines free of charge at a government hospital or health center.

If not and if you are in Bangkok, suggest you try Saint Louis Hospital on Sathorn for the most reasonable private price.

you are completely wrong please provide backup for your outrageous claims

You provide back up that they are not.....the mod on this forum is in the business BTW and she has provided lots of very good advice over the years so may I humbly suggest you go and put your tin foil hat back on

[Sceptict11]

Sadly the subject of vaccination attracts the "loonies" perhaps time to close the thread down.

Anyone wishing to secure genuine advice is welcome to PM me and I am sure Sheryl would make the same offer.

[Sheryl]

No flaming, please.

A reminder that the topic is affordable locations for vaccination. Not a request for conspiracy theories/arguments against scientifically proven vaccinations.

Please keep in mind the Health Forum rules, particularly #2:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/224498-health-forum-rules/

[Till]

Thank you everyone for the info. The mother deliver in Adventist Mission Hospital and the service was good. We consider it for vaccinations, also Mayo hospital cause it is nearby and i will check the Saint Louis Hospital.

[h90]

geez!!! poor baby!!

you just said you had a wonderful beautiful baby,, and i am sure its in lovely health,,, and you are now going to inject it with vaccines and a life of medical treatments!!!

There is no option to not vaccinate a child in Thailand.

If you say no, they take the kid behind a screen and inject anyway.

If you manage to avoid the compulsory vaccinations, they won't let the kid attend school until they are done.

In a country where you can buy everything.....

[David48]

Thank you everyone for the info. The mother deliver in Adventist Mission Hospital and the service was good. We consider it for vaccinations, also Mayo hospital cause it is nearby and i will check the Saint Louis Hospital.

Mate, if it's not personal a question, may I ask what the birth cost?

I assume it was a C-Section?

What was the package you got.

My lady is expecting and I wanted a quick comparison on prices.

There was a 'standard' package, and a 'gold' package which offered the Vaccinations and the extra cost was Bt 10 or 12,000 more.

The gf said nah ... save your money, the Government Hospitals/Clinics will do them for free.

But back to the question ... cost for the birth and what did you get for that?

OH ... I forgot to wish you all the best with the birth ... I hope things sail smoothly for you.

[Mrjlh]

I glad to see the OP get the answer and correct advice she needed. Sheryl has provided a great deal of useful medical advice here. And sas they always say, "if you have questions, ask youth Doctor".

As for Mr. Nickiboy, here's a link and a factual quote taken from it for him to chew on. Hope he doesn't choke. Please notice the term "elaborate FRAUD".

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/29/vaccine-autism-connection-debunked-again/

(quote): In 2011, the British medical journal BMJ said a now-retracted study linking autism to the vaccine that prevents measles, mumps and rubella was an "elaborate fraud" that did long-lasting damage to public health. An investigation by the journal said the study's author, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, misrepresented or altered the medical histories of all 12 patients whose cases formed the basis of the 1998 study.

Wakefield told CNN's "AC360" that his work had been "grossly distorted" and he was the target of a "ruthless, pragmatic attempt to crush any attempt to investigate valid vaccine safety concerns."

The now-discredited paper panicked parents and led to a sharp drop in the number of children getting the vaccine. Measles cases increased in the ensuing years. (unquote)

[yankee99]

Thank you everyone for the info. The mother deliver in Adventist Mission Hospital and the service was good. We consider it for vaccinations, also Mayo hospital cause it is nearby and i will check the Saint Louis Hospital.

Mate, if it's not personal a question, may I ask what the birth cost?

I assume it was a C-Section?

What was the package you got.

My lady is expecting and I wanted a quick comparison on prices.

There was a 'standard' package, and a 'gold' package which offered the Vaccinations and the extra cost was Bt 10 or 12,000 more.

The gf said nah ... save your money, the Government Hospitals/Clinics will do them for free.

But back to the question ... cost for the birth and what did you get for that?

OH ... I forgot to wish you all the best with the birth ... I hope things sail smoothly for you.

Just a thought....In our case our doctor who works at bkk/pattaya hospital also works at the government hospital. We used him at his clinic then he came to the gov hospital for the c section delivery. So we only paid doctors fees about 7500 and pvt room fees. Incubator meds and everything was free for a eight day stay..Would have cost 50k- 100k in the usa

[Till]

My wife had natural delivery. We choose the package of 3 days two nights for 25k. We have a private room. At the end we pay 25.500 bahts. They take very good care of us. Doctor came for the delivery in the middle of the night. We are thankful for that. The only "but" is the nurses of the reception and ground floor ladies are not good dealing with foreigners. But that 3 days 2 nights we didn´t have to deal with them. Nurses in this sections are kind and speak good English all of them. It included VCG and HPB vaccinations.

Cesarean package was 37k.

Anyway, my wife is not Thai. I am sure there are good public hospitals. You are welcome to ask any other question.

Thank you everyone for the info. The mother deliver in Adventist Mission Hospital and the service was good. We consider it for vaccinations, also Mayo hospital cause it is nearby and i will check the Saint Louis Hospital.

Mate, if it's not personal a question, may I ask what the birth cost?

I assume it was a C-Section?

What was the package you got.

My lady is expecting and I wanted a quick comparison on prices.

There was a 'standard' package, and a 'gold' package which offered the Vaccinations and the extra cost was Bt 10 or 12,000 more.

The gf said nah ... save your money, the Government Hospitals/Clinics will do them for free.

But back to the question ... cost for the birth and what did you get for that?

OH ... I forgot to wish you all the best with the birth ... I hope things sail smoothly for you.

[Sheryl]

Off-topic bickering (and in some cases outright flaming) has been deleted. Any further and those responsible may lose their posting privileges.

[FiftyTwo]

Thank you everyone for the info. The mother deliver in Adventist Mission Hospital and the service was good. We consider it for vaccinations, also Mayo hospital cause it is nearby and i will check the Saint Louis Hospital.

Mate, if it's not personal a question, may I ask what the birth cost?

David

Birth cost is nothing for a Thai mother in a government hospital.

If the wife is pregnant she should have already signed up with the local place and be monitored.

My local government hospital signed us up with the free pregnancy test at 2+ months.

Blood tests for me 250bht, for her free, to check for HIV, Tarasimia, and a couple of other STds.

Monitoring for her every month, optional vitamin tablets for her, 250bht for 6 months.

Birth free, delivered naturally by midwife under supervision (normal in government hospital).

I can't pick any fault with the hospital we used at all "NakornPing near Mae Rim"

3000bht for 3 nights in a private room.

Total 3500, most of which was down to optional extras.

After care also exceptional, at two years, still taking baby for regular hospital check-ups, every aspect better than the NHS in the UK.

Delivery block is women only, no men allowed in at all, you can see after the birth when the mother and baby is wheeled over to the private room.

Edited December 20, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[easybullet3]

Here are some facts and data from actual studies (some of which are recent) and from very valid sources. (not made up by a lay-person).

All of the studies below are really just a small sample of the data that is out there. and this is to give a very valid argument against vaccinating small babies and all the risks involved. The 4th link is particularly interesting because it shows a collection of studies and how they have all been 'conveniently ignored' for political purposes (it even shows testimonials given in court).

(1)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058170

the above link is a STUDY showing that Hepatitis B Vaccine in infants increases risk of Autism

(2)

http://www.mdpi.com/1099-4300/14/11/2227/pdf

this above link is just from last year... showing that toxic ingredients in Vaccines (in infants) have correlated to increased seizures, fatigue, pain and death, which are also significantly associated with aluminum-containing vaccines and that children with the autism diagnosis are especially vulnerable to toxic metals such as aluminum and mercury. AND a strong correlation between autism and the MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella) vaccine is also observed.

(you can just scroll down to the CONCLUSION section of the study to save time)

(3)

http://vran.org/wp-content/documents/VRAN-Abnormal%20Measles-Mumps-Rubella-Antibodies-CNS-Autoimmunity-Children-Autism-Singh-Lin-Newell-Nelson.pdf

- an older American study showing links between MMR and Autism.

(4)

http://www.ecomed.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/3-tomljenovic.pdf

this is a collection of MANY studies showing links to dangers of Vaccinations and how they have been 'conveniently' ignored.

Here is the conclusion of the above link, which pretty much sums the whole thing up:

In conclusion, by apparently prioritizing vaccination policy over vaccine safety, the JCVI, the DH

and the Committee on Safety of Medicines (CSM) may have shown a disregard for the safety of

children. Through selective data reporting, the JCVI in conjunction with the DH, has promulgated

information relating to vaccine safety that may be inaccurate and potentially misleading, thereby

making it impossible for the parents to make a fully informed consent regarding vaccination.

Furthermore, by 1) apparently misleading patients about the true risks of adverse reactions as to

gain their consent for the administration of the treatment and 2) seemingly siding with vaccine

manufacturers rather than public health interests, the JCVI and the CSM appear to have signally

failed their fiduciary duty to protect individuals from vaccines of questionable safety. If these

provisional conclusions are indeed correct, then the information presented here may help us in

understanding the UK government’s and the JCVI’s official position on vaccine damage, that is, one

of persistent denial.

(5)

The Institue of Medicine (in America) has said (in print):

"Vaccines are not free from side effects, or adverse effects".

(here is a link to an article that quotes this and also gathers additional data from around the web about similar issues)

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/09/27/vaccines-are-dangerous-says-the-government.aspx

All the above information is actual data from real studies.

PS:

Thai Visa User: Mrjlh (above) quoted a study debunking the connection between Autism and Vaccines.

- Here is the study he was quoting: http://www.jpeds.com/content/JPEDSDeStefano

If you look at who performed this study you will see it was conducted by a "Children's Hospital Medical Center"!

(This is like a ‘supermarket’ doing a study about the benefits of 'packaged food'!!)

i'm not saying the study is wrong, but at least try to find studies that are not from 'within' the industry or government bodies and industries that may profit from nationwide vaccination programs! (surely that makes sense).

PPS:

Just because the British Medical Journal (BMJ) withdrew its stance on one issue of the MMR vaccine does not mean that suddenly vaccines are safe in children.

- This was based on Dr Andrew Wakefields 'manipulated/tweeked' study on 12 children in London which started off the MMR issue).

Please Note: They withdrew its statements about the MMR vaccine. But,, please remember that MMR is NOT THE ONLY VACCINE!!

and the BMJ based this on a fraudulent study from a guy that only used 12 kids in his study.

since then there have been MANY more studies on MANY MANY different vaccines other than MMR.

so the fact that the BMJ now supports the MMR vaccine is not reflective of the entire range of vaccines available to infants.

As EVERYONE has said here (and as I also said in my original post, which was deleted by the moderators), you should not be scared into any decision. you should go home and do the research yourself. and research should be based on ALL sides of the argument. Not just on the pressure from health-carers, hospitals and doctors.

I can assure you that the bulk of nurses and doctors have not spent weeks upon weeks researching this issue. They are merely passing on information that is from their employer or government information. Let your own brain become involved in the life of your own child. its your child, not a state owned child.

Someone remarked that you need vaccinations in Thailand in order to go to school. But school is not until about 4 years old. so you have 4 years to decide about your childs vaccinations!! so this is not really an argument at this point in time.

Edited December 23, 2013 by easybullet3

[easybullet3]

You provide back up that they are not.....the mod on this forum is in the business BTW and she has provided lots of very good advice over the years so may I humbly suggest you go and put your tin foil hat back on

No flaming, please.

A reminder that the topic is affordable locations for vaccination. Not a request for conspiracy theories/arguments against scientifically proven vaccinations.

Sadly the subject of vaccination attracts the "loonies" perhaps time to close the thread down.

I glad to see the OP get the answer and correct advice she needed. Sheryl has provided a great deal of useful medical advice here. And sas they always say, "if you have questions, ask youth Doctor".

As for Mr. Nickiboy, here's a link and a factual quote taken from it for him to chew on. Hope he doesn't choke. Please notice the term "elaborate FRAUD".

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/29/vaccine-autism-connection-debunked-again/

(quote): In 2011, the British medical journal BMJ said a now-retracted study linking autism to the vaccine that prevents measles, mumps and rubella was an "elaborate fraud" that did long-lasting damage to public health. An investigation by the journal said the study's author, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, misrepresented or altered the medical histories of all 12 patients whose cases formed the basis of the 1998 study.

Wakefield told CNN's "AC360" that his work had been "grossly distorted" and he was the target of a "ruthless, pragmatic attempt to crush any attempt to investigate valid vaccine safety concerns."

The now-discredited paper panicked parents and led to a sharp drop in the number of children getting the vaccine. Measles cases increased in the ensuing years. (unquote)

I hope that the 'new' post (above) will 'fill on the gaps' for you guys.

Please give you opinions on it AFTER reading it through (rather than slating without diligence).

the above post is all based on scientific fact and studies. I compiled it carefully so that I have not crossed any 'lines' to interfere with forum rules as such.

[Sheryl]

Some very fringe sources, several of them long ago discredited.

The "gold standard" for scientific research is a case-control study.

"Increasing exposure to antibody-stimulating proteins and polysaccharides in vaccines is not associated with risk of autism," by Frank DeStefano, MD, MPH, Cristofer S. Price, ScM, and Eric S. Weintraub, MPH, The Journal of Pediatrics (www.jpeds.com), DOI 10.1016/j.

There is BTW no practical means of conducting such a study except by/through a health care institution given the need for physical exams and lab tests etc.

Vaccines are not a money maker for hospitals -- indeed quite the opposite. It's a very inexpensive service which decreases health care expenditures over time.

The CDC, which does not stand to gain anything in this issue one way or the other, has extensively investigated the matter and concluded that the risk of autism is not increased, and that the risk from side effects of vaccines (which nobody has ever claimed to be zero) is smaller than the risk of complications from the diseases the vaccines prevent. Which is the basis of decisions to recommend or not recommend a vaccine for particular population segments: the incidence of the disease prevented * the incidence of serious complications = risk of not being vaccinated; incidence of serious side effects of the vaccine = risk of being vaccinated, compare the two ---> public health recommendation.

The standard childhood vaccines are long off patent and make no money for the drug companies either. In fact in the West governments have had to take measures to persuade companies to continue to manufacture them.

[Sceptict11]

Sheryl

+1

The "detractors" with go to any length in order to peddle their nonsense and misinformation.

[Mrjlh]

If you care to read any of the junk studies listed, you will see it may have a current date added but the studies quoted are anywhere from 5-10-20 years old. Have no valid association to the actual subject at hand and prove nothing. The language and wording used in these so called studies is contrived to smear the actual facts. It is in fact a myth and an urban legend that will not die at the risk of serious illness occurring in children.

The myth arose from a thoroughly discredited, ethically indefensible study by former Dr Andrew Wakefield, who has now been barred from practicing medicine in the UK for "dishonest falsification" in the study.

My sources for my statement are from (I have personally talked to a couple of these individuals):

Do immunizations cause autism?

Colin Gerber, Parkinson's Researcher

Votes by Emily Altman, Dermatologist, Summit Medical Group, Laszlo B. Tamas, Neurosurgeon with ties to the Bay area and Sili..., Michael Shiloh, Board certified in Internal Medicine and Infect..., Kathryn Hedges, and 106 more.

NO!, they do not. Andrew Wakefield (no longer recognized as a doctor by the General Medical Council http://www.gmc-uk.org/) has done irreparable harm to peoples' understanding of vaccines and science in general by completely falsifying his findings.

Now unless you can provide a "live" person who will support your claim, I suggest you see the wisdom in having children get their shots. So ask yourself this question, "do you want to be responsible for the death of a child because a parent believed your junk science". Please think hard and long before you answer.

Other than that, MODs please close this subject. Thank you.