NY Times brands current protests in Thailand undemocratic movement

[anselpixel]

I don't see how this minor news flash can excite so much passion.

The leadership of the insurgency and various minions have been quite clear about the objective, and it's certainly not democracy. They say they'll get back to the democracy thing as soon as the proper people have been installed to run the country, and the population has been re-educated.

If there's anything remarkable about the NYT noticing the trend, it's that they took so long to say anything about it.

[lostinsurin]

It's not surprising. Just common sense. What other conclusion could any journalist come up with? Of course what Suthep is doing is totally undemocratic. Suthep is a traitor. The Dems are the least democratic of all. The followers of the protests are a mix of nostalgic old guard, snobbish Bangkok middle class, students who have everything to learn, and, most importantly, yellow thugs brought by bus to Bangkok to inflate the numbers and incite unrest. Their aim is just to gain power through undemocratic ways because they can't win an election. Cannot be clearer. Totally obvious... Nothing to be excited about. This article is just common sense. What I would find much more interesting would be the publishing of a medical research's result that explains how farangs on a forum like this one support such a criminal movement. Collective hysteria? Lack of self confidence? Fear of the outside world? Irrational paranoia? Subliminal manipulation? The explanation must be very interesting. Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They just feel special.

[Pikeybkk]

LOL! Like people in Thailand care what the NYT writes.

majority of people in Thailand would not be able to read what the NYT's writes.

[ppmacready]

All the Thai Governments are corrupt, but-

The red shirts are democratically elected each time because of the elite yellow shirts perpetuating a backward education system all these years?

OR

The Elite right wing can not accept democracy as it erodes the power they have held for century's over the uneducated poor.

In any case the road to democracy is not painless.

Its a shame when the elite yellow shirts were sent abroad to study, they either didn't study world history or more likely ignored it!

“When the old refuses to die, and the new is struggling to be born, monsters appear.”

One way or another, elite yellow shirts and the poorer uneducated red shirts have been fighting for or against democracy for decades around the world.

There aren't many country's around the world where the elitists in the end win.

But subtly ( not a word the Thais are YET familiar with ) they remain in control.

Education is the ONLY way forward.So we have decades of problems to follow.

Edited December 19, 2013 by metisdead
Font color reset to black.

[Frank James]

The New York Times is a ultra left wing rag, which preaches socialism.

Thanks, Glenn Beck!

[DocN]

Did any of you -also on that other thread about how the current government is a dictatorship- ever ask themselves, why so many western journalists of renown new organisations (you may personally not like NYT or BBC or whatever...but that's not the point!) start writing blatantly simplified articles painting everything black and white (or red and yellow)?

Is it really because those news organisations actually started hiring absolute morons to report the news from Thailand, since ...let's say...2002?

Or may it be that these journalists actually would love to write the truth...but that should better be sent when you are basically sitting on your flight home, otherwise you may stay longer in Bangkok, than you actually wish for...and in less nice circumstances, as when you are writing simple stories about the "class- struggle" and Thailand being a beacon of democracy?!

Just saying....

[connda]

The NY Times should pay more attention to the country they publish from. Like they have a finger on the pulse of Thai politics. lol

[thailiketoo]

The New York Times is a ultra left wing rag, which preaches socialism.

The New York Times (or NYT) is an American daily newspaper, founded and continuously published in New York City since September 18, 1851. It has won 112 Pulitzer Prizes, more than any other news organization.[3][4] Its website is one of America's most popular news sites - and most popular among all the nation's newspapers - receiving more than 30 million unique visitors per month.

Nicknamed The Gray Lady, The Times is long regarded within the industry as a national "newspaper of record". It is owned by The New York Times Company. The company's chairman is Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr., whose family has controlled the paper since 1896

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times

[Jack Mountain]

The New York Times is a ultra left wing rag, which preaches socialism.

The New York Times (or NYT) is an American daily newspaper, founded and continuously published in New York City since September 18, 1851. It has won 112 Pulitzer Prizes, more than any other news organization.[3][4] Its website is one of America's most popular news sites - and most popular among all the nation's newspapers - receiving more than 30 million unique visitors per month.

Nicknamed The Gray Lady, The Times is long regarded within the industry as a national "newspaper of record". It is owned by The New York Times Company. The company's chairman is Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr., whose family has controlled the paper since 1896

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York

Seeing, reading Bill Keller, the NYT is not left ...

[MrSlatersParrot]

It's not surprising. Just common sense. What other conclusion could any journalist come up with?Of course what Suthep is doing is totally undemocratic. Suthep is a traitor.The Dems are the least democratic of all.The followers of the protests are a mix of nostalgic old guard, snobbish Bangkok middle class, students who have everything to learn, and, most importantly, yellow thugs brought by bus to Bangkok to inflate the numbers and incite unrest. Their aim is just to gain power through undemocratic ways because they can't win an election. Cannot be clearer. Totally obvious...Nothing to be excited about. This article is just common sense. -_-What I would find much more interesting would be the publishing of a medical research's result that explains how farangs on a forum like this one support such a criminal movement. Collective hysteria? Lack of self confidence? Fear of the outside world? Irrational paranoia? Subliminal manipulation? The explanation must be very interesting.:rolleyes:Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The great (un)brainwashed.

Left their reasoning and common sense behind.

K

Prompong Nopparit, in the other paper, makes some good reasonings and invites the "Un"Democrats to answer his 6 points. (Reasonable reactions too!)

He asked why abhisit had asked in 2007 the public to accept the draft of the rewritten charter on the basis it could be revised later and then now opposing any charter amendment or rewrite?

Another point he makes is why reform now when abhisit was in power for two and a half years he never sought to make any reforms nor did he do anything whatsoever about corruption.

It has been argued that new money laundering laws are hurting the drugs trade here and maybe there are some within military circles possibly who might be backing this anti democracy movement for criminal mafia reasons

[Ulic]

Really, well what other conclusion could possibly be drawn from the speeches of Suthep?

Masters of stating the obvious as far as I am concerned. How about a third party candidate

not tainted by the stench of corruption the two main parties are immersed in.

[MrSlatersParrot]

Funnily enough there are so many whack jobs trying to make all sorts of excuses for Mr T dragging the whole country into the gutter that is simply hilarious. Anyway, NYT called armed red mob terrorists in 2010 unarmed peaceful protesters. So it is obvious that they have an agenda. Whoever pays more.

Because they were unarmed but not in the media you read.

What media is that?

A bit embarrassing the 120,000 rounds fired by the military and the 2500 sniper rounds fired.

More embarrassing that none of those killed, including nurses and journalists in identifying kit, were armed.

The worlds press reported what they saw.

Everyone else used their mobile phones but graphic images cannot be published on here anymore.

The "collected" photo evidence from the right wing media here is terribly thin.

[gerry1011]

It's not surprising. Just common sense. What other conclusion could any journalist come up with? Of course what Suthep is doing is totally undemocratic. Suthep is a traitor. The Dems are the least democratic of all. The followers of the protests are a mix of nostalgic old guard, snobbish Bangkok middle class, students who have everything to learn, and, most importantly, yellow thugs brought by bus to Bangkok to inflate the numbers and incite unrest. Their aim is just to gain power through undemocratic ways because they can't win an election. Cannot be clearer. Totally obvious... Nothing to be excited about. This article is just common sense. What I would find much more interesting would be the publishing of a medical research's result that explains how farangs on a forum like this one support such a criminal movement. Collective hysteria? Lack of self confidence? Fear of the outside world? Irrational paranoia? Subliminal manipulation? The explanation must be very interesting. Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They just feel special.

Naaaaaaa... there must be some other reasons

Could be a rare pathology affecting common sense...

[plachon]

Funnily enough there are so many whack jobs trying to make all sorts of excuses for Mr T dragging the whole country into the gutter that is simply hilarious. Anyway, NYT called armed red mob terrorists in 2010 unarmed peaceful protesters. So it is obvious that they have an agenda. Whoever pays more.

Because they were unarmed but not in the media you read.

What media is that?

A bit embarrassing the 120,000 rounds fired by the military and the 2500 sniper rounds fired.

More embarrassing that none of those killed, including nurses and journalists in identifying kit, were armed.

The worlds press reported what they saw.

Everyone else used their mobile phones but graphic images cannot be published on here anymore.

The "collected" photo evidence from the right wing media here is terribly thin.

There used to be a joke that went something like:

Q/ Who killed Mussolini?

A/ 90 Italian sharpshooters.

If your data is correct on the number of rounds fired, then the Thai army either deserve praise for their restraint in trying not to harm the protesters, but firing over their heads, or they have serious problem with accuracy. Considering the fact that they put up signs for over a week ahead saying the protest area was a "Live Fire Zone" before any shots were fired back (they were receiving incoming fire from Blackshirt snipers all that time) at the armed and angry protesters, then the low casualty rate is quite surprising, all things considered. I wonder if some of those killed and injured were actually hit by ricochets, rather than direct fire? I also wonder of those "2,500 sniper rounds" how many were fired directly at the military by Red-supporting Blackshirts? To say they were "unarmed" is just ridiculous, as is pretending that some of those killed (on both sides of the conflict) were not armed. As you say, the pictures at the time revealed that this was a full-on armed insurrection against the government. It does, however, give the opportunity to make a local twist to the old joke

Q/ Who killed Sae Daeng?

[northernjohn]

I don't see how this minor news flash can excite so much passion.

The leadership of the insurgency and various minions have been quite clear about the objective, and it's certainly not democracy. They say they'll get back to the democracy thing as soon as the proper people have been installed to run the country, and the population has been re-educated.

If there's anything remarkable about the NYT noticing the trend, it's that they took so long to say anything about it.

"the population has been re-educated."

Did you just get off a bannana boat or some thing. re-educated First they have to educate them. That is why they are on the pickle they are in now.

[lifeincnx]

The New York Times is a ultra left wing rag, which preaches socialism.

Thanks, Glenn Beck!

Or perhaps we just learned the ThaiVisa handle for Rodger Ailes from Faux, er Fox News.

[northernjohn]

The New York Times is a ultra left wing rag, which preaches socialism.

The New York Times (or NYT) is an American daily newspaper, founded and continuously published in New York City since September 18, 1851. It has won 112 Pulitzer Prizes, more than any other news organization.[3][4] Its website is one of America's most popular news sites - and most popular among all the nation's newspapers - receiving more than 30 million unique visitors per month.

Nicknamed The Gray Lady, The Times is long regarded within the industry as a national "newspaper of record". It is owned by The New York Times Company. The company's chairman is Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr., whose family has controlled the paper since 1896

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times

So what

They still have no idea of what is happening here in Thailand.

They still think the Red Shirt Protesters in 2010 were unarmed and the Government was at fault for it all.

They best stick to what they do best crossword puzzles. Yesterdays stars are dead and they no longer have the quality of reporting they did.

[northernjohn]

The New York Times is a ultra left wing rag, which preaches socialism.

Thanks, Glenn Beck!

Or perhaps we just learned the ThaiVisa handle for Rodger Ailes from Faux, er Fox News.

No Fox News was not radical enough for him. I once watched him for almost half an hour give an intelligent report on why the States should stop all foreign aid. then the last thing he said was with the exception of Israeli.

[thailiketoo]

I know it's more fun to attack the messenger or his chariot but did anyone read the article?

Some excerpts from the OP article, "In today’s fractured Thailand, a majority wants more democracy, but a minority, including many rich and powerful people, is petrified by the thought of it.

Because a number of the protest leaders are members of Thailand’s wealthiest families, some have described the demonstrations here as the antithesis of the Occupy Wall Street movement. This is the 1 percent rebelling against the 99 percent, they say.

What unites the protesters is the desire to dismantle Ms. Yingluck’s Pheu Thai Party, which has won every election since 2001.

The antidemocratic ideas put forward by protest leaders are a jarring contrast with the image of Thailand as a cosmopolitan country open to the world."

Oh boy and there is a lot more that can't be posted here. Google the title of this OP.

[lostinsurin]

Really, well what other conclusion could possibly be drawn from the speeches of Suthep?

Masters of stating the obvious as far as I am concerned. How about a third party candidate

not tainted by the stench of corruption the two main parties are immersed in.

"How about a third party candidate not tainted by the stench of corruption the two main parties are immersed in".

That will hopefully come later, but I feel as a follow-on to the red shirts, green shirts, who knows?

[BigMountain]

Its actually a really well written and nuanced article. I encourage everyone to read before making silly comments about the nyt or the States

Sent from my GT-S5282 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thailiketoo]

Its actually a really well written and nuanced article. I encourage everyone to read before making silly comments about the nyt or the States Sent from my GT-S5282 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Agree or disagree it is a very worthwhile article worthy of discussion. As opposed to simply flaming the writer or newspaper.

[Spartakos]

Agree 100 % with the article. Thailand is on its way to Dictatorship.

Agree 100% unless the protesters will prevail and throw the dictators out.

[tingtongteesood]

Oh come on, we all know that what we have here is very far from 'real' democracy and has always been. Right now we have Thaksinocracy ( aka Idiocracy ) and if you are against it then some of Thaksin's cronies will try and make your life difficult.

There can never be real democracy whilst the Shin clan are more interested in profiteering from the country than helping it and try to silence and imprison or even kill their critics!

[rubl]

Interestingly the NY Times also wrote about a skyping-in by our favorite golf caddy

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/690364-thailand-regime-is-not-democratically-elected/page-1

[noitom]

Journalists like Mr. Fuller never speak the real truth. They edge around it because they are merely tools of the power elite privileged class. Fuller touches on points and uses quotes without ever digging on the issue raised. For example, his quote of Verapat stating that managers of the Crown Property Bureau are "acting behind the scenes." Fuller never digs at this to inquire what that means and to decode it.

There is no search for the truth in Thai journalism including Fuller's work for the NY Times. Journalists assigned in Thailand like Fuller are merely tools of the establishment with no freedom or protection to really seek the truth. Without that disclosure, transparency and debate, Thailand is headed for dictatorship.

[tilac2]

I've noticed that the anti Government movement is publishing from the following web addresses in English:

http://nsnbc.me

http://altthainews.blogspot.com

The latter has a headline: "BBC Drops Propaganda Hammer on Thailand: Jonathan Head of BBC does disingenuous hit piece on Thai conflict. Exposing the BBC's lies - point by point."

They seem to think that the BBC, the New York Times and other news organisations have been taken over by Mr Taksin. Maybe you agree, maybe you don't. (I don't, having worked for the BBC as a freelance for some years).

Just to let you all know.

[seminomadic]

All the Thai Governments are corrupt, but-

The red shirts are democratically elected each time because of the elite yellow shirts perpetuating a backward education system all these years?

OR

The Elite right wing can not accept democracy as it erodes the power they have held for century's over the uneducated poor.

In any case the road to democracy is not painless.

Its a shame when the elite yellow shirts were sent abroad to study, they either didn't study world history or more likely ignored it!

Nailed it. Re: your last statement- from experience I've noticed only kids who go abroad in their mid-teens have a chance to get re-programmed in a way that will get them on the ball. If they wait till tertiary level, they're already too cooked and inured to the nonsense here. From then on, you can give them the best ideas in the world, but their second to second consciousness will never be anything but greng jai, save face, don't rock the boat with Pii, food & whether they can catch up on the lakorn.

Perfect example- I was teaching several youngish ladies in a class who were gov't officials in one of TH's urban planning departments. After a comfort level was established, I suggested they travel around China where there has been some excellent urban planning done in some of the smaller and newer cities where large investments obviously had been made in oversized boulevards in anticipation of continued country-to-metropolis diaspora. This has made several urban areas (Suzhou, Hangzhou as examples if I remember right) much less congested and more liveable. This way they could get ideas for what to do about some of Thailand's up and coming cities (e.g. KK, Ubon, Udon, as opposed to BKK and CM both of which are beyond remedy via urban planning).

I was vexed and depressed by her response. They said they had already done such a tour (on taxpayers' money). Of those cities in China. Years ago. In one ear and out the other. Seeds cast on desert rocks. When's Thong Neua Gao on? Ok good I can get some glass noodles and shrimp in time.

This country is utterly and tragically hopeless. Top-level change or policy is and never will be anything more than cosmetic. Just enjoy living here and then make your way out & back home with one of these cute honeys before the real dust-up comes.

Edited December 19, 2013 by seminomadic

[tilac2]

Buddies of Thaksin the CFR & Wall St ...Thaksin was selected over 15 years ago as their man for SE Asia. ...the idiotic Soverenty destroying TPP is getting close, so they need him or his robots here

You state: "Thaksin was selected over 15 years ago as their man for SE Asia."

Are there any documented quotations or other evidence or to prove what you allege? If not, perhaps you'd consider withdrawing the allegation.

[quiuvo]

Nobody here needs to retract their words.

I love freedom of speech . I don't like hot weather but that is another story.