Bangkok overrun by huge protest

[paz]

Perhaps a long shot, but my guess is that there will be a military "national interest" gov.t in place on feb 2nd. or few days after.

That will be accepted by both parties while trying to find a way out and possibly making changes to their visible leadership.

New elections will be called for some months later, at that point the Dem will not be in a position to boycott again and will have try to win power with votes not bullying.

Edited December 23, 2013 by paz

[ManopY]

Bangkok Post said the security officials have estimated 270,000, and we all know being in the control of the government that the quote will be definitely played down.

So was it the big million + ??

Possibly.

Bluesky was reporting 3.5 million. police reported 135,000. so somewhere int he middle is probably correct. I would say about a million or more!

So, it is a world record!

[Thai at Heart]

""Whoever wants to go inside to register will have to pass through us," he said.

"If we do not hold the country by February 2, we will shut the country down. No one will go to vote," he added."

Did Suthep really say this? I know the APP seems to take a pro govt line in most of its stories, but they don't make stuff up. Suthep's authoritarian, PT like attitude of "my way is the only way" is getting worse. Man's barking mad and gorged on power, dangerous combination. He will be no better than PT and their red stormtroopers if he carries out these threats.

Suthep is acting very foolishly. The problem is that as everybody knows, Thailand's future hinges on the reaching, or just approaching, a nexus-point of consensus between rich/poor urban/rural. Problem number two, this is the bigger problem, and the one which Suthep's mad scheme totally does not factor in, is that the rural majority want democratic votes, they are the majority and also the serf class and so they feel that having their votes respected is very important. Suthep overturning the elected Govt and essentially spitting on all those casted votes, is going to cause immensely bad feelings around the nation.

On a practical level, yes Yingluck is no good, yes Thaksin should face additional massmurder charges for the 2500 deaths he ordered, and his nepotistic plundering of the State Fund, there is no dispute from me. But what was good is that PTP were voted for, got into power, and so their supporters put down the pitchforks and said "ok we've got our electoral rights now" etc. And they then started gradually criticising their own PTP members for failing, which is totally natural healthy democracy, and heading in the right direction. Suthep derailed that slow but natural process. The rural / poor thinking that it was great they had got Government's ear, but they didn't like their leadership, for failing to improve infrastructure etc. So they would put more internal pressure on PTP to act like a political party not just insurgents. This is very slow process. Meantime, Dems were gaining popularity also from the PTP failing.

The problems can all be solved without any of the Suthep stuff.

Re; Yingluck abuse of the policy-making machinery, can all be solved by Parliamentary reform, Parliament as a concept is a fluid system which invites augmentation to "get around" nation-specific difficulties, overhauling the mechanisms relating to the power balance of the various parties, their floor-time, and also the policy queueing system of which needs to be regulated by an external body. Thaksin passport issue should never reach the debate floor, especially during flood crisis as it did, that is just ridiculous. This can be solved by strictly regulating policy-submission and queueing. Those reforms take a long time, it also takes a long time for radical new parties such as PTP to settle into more progressive models. Especially as they began as a hero-worship cult. But you have to work with the materials you've got.

However, to scrap the whole process above, and just say "your votes don't matter" (paraphrasing Suthep's conceptual Assembly idea) is inviting disaster. I hope to be proved wrong on all this.

edit: mister coffee & typos

The ultimate clincher for all of this depends completely on whether ptp and the reds can muster enough people nation wide in order to fight.

That is all that is left. If the reds won't fight, Suthep wins. Then if the reds do fight, can they overcome the army and will the army fight.

That's it. Simple. There won't be a valid election. No way, Suthep can't risk it.

[Scamper]

As Yingluck further retreats into a kind of alternate universe - a bunker-like mentality in Isaan, one wonders if she'll stay there for the duration of the campaign, if not longer. But - barring contemplating moving the capital - she will at some point have to contend with the rest of the country. Yingluck seems to forget that she campaigned in 2011 on the message of reform, and that she would do everything she could to bring the country together. But once in office, her version of " reform " was to push every initiative of Thaksin, every cabinet appointment, to crowd as many relatives and confidantes into positions of power, and to literally ram through an amnesty bill that revealed in the final hour - despite all the strenuous and repeated denials - would have completely exonerated Thaksin, and resulted in the eventual return of his assets. So when Yingluck talks about promised reforms for the people, the people no longer believe her. And can anyone blame them ?

[soi41]

Here we go again!! Another thread where posters are fighting each other about who are "the rightest of the right". Most of them sadly with limited knowledge of Thai society as a whole and even less when it comes to politics!! But good entertainment!!

May I suggest a solution to the political divide:

Bye bye amart!!

[andygunther]

Looks like failed politico Suthep does not want elections. He wants to seize power.

Another mad man using similar language managed to manipulated the people in a country with the highest level of general knowledge, science and technology of the time. Hitler was elected to office by the overwhelming voting majority of Germans. His speeches containing trigger phrases such as the "struggle of the people" and "power to the people" are similar to the language Suthep is using now to rouse Thais. It speaks volumes of the Thai mindset and character. They seem prone to become blind drones for one side or the other.

Why is it that in a country where vote buying (from all sides) is a tradition, a Democrat does not want elections but to seize power?

Those who believe what Suthep said about retiring from politics are in deep denial of the obvious. They might as well join the hordes of his drones.

They are certainly buying of votes on both sides ... the difference is only that the red ones are purchasing their very cheap.

[pitrevie]

Looks like failed politico Suthep does not want elections. He wants to seize power.

Another mad man using similar language managed to manipulated the people in a country with the highest level of general knowledge, science and technology of the time. Hitler was elected to office by the overwhelming voting majority of Germans. His speeches containing trigger phrases such as the "struggle of the people" and "power to the people" are similar to the language Suthep is using now to rouse Thais. It speaks volumes of the Thai mindset and character. They seem prone to become blind drones for one side or the other.

Why is it that in a country where vote buying (from all sides) is a tradition, a Democrat does not want elections but to seize power?

Those who believe what Suthep said about retiring from politics are in deep denial of the obvious. They might as well join the hordes of his drones.

Hitler never obtained more than 40% of the vote, he was appointed German Chancellor on the basis that he led the largest party.

[ramrod711]

It becomes more and more a Thai soap opera, with bad actors. On one side a PM remote controlled but legally appointed and on the other side a corrupt politician with personnel hate towards TS claiming that he speaks for the Thai population. If this would be the case why not facing the election and than with a democrat lead government all the changes could be implemented. He can't agree to that because he knows he would loose the election. Now he wants to block the election and ensure that nobody goes for voting taking away the basic right of each Thai to express their will. What is wrong with the people that they don't understand that on the end it could only mean a total split of the Thai society, ideas of unelected government different voting rights for different classes of Thai people is far from Democracy.

Perhaps the people are tired of being ruled by a self exiled criminal. As long as Yingluck stays, the police general stays, Tarit stays and the cabinet has a hard time "trying to balance how much influence Thaksin should have" the people will not be happy, and i don't blame them. If they quit i would think that people would leave the streets, return to their homes, but the man in Dubai can't spell lose.

[Jack Mountain]

Having FAILED to remove the govt by any of his moving feasts of final, absolute deadlines, he is now ThREATENING those who do wish to participate in the democratic process. What a sad and sorry excuse for someone meant to be serving the interests of the people ( corruption, insurrection and murder charges notwithstanding).

Yesterday's rally was a major flop for Suthep . It achieved nothing, so now he reverts to the previous policy of intimidation and implied violence. I wouldn't trust this guy for a second

So you think Yingluck has more credibility ...

How many promises has she completed?

Additionally, I am not a big beliver on the elections here in Thailand, it's widely known how the red buying votes...

But even the poor rice farmers also been cheated of the promised money, so the dissatisfaction is increasing even among them.

So, let's theorize, suppose there is no vote buying, which party will win the elections then?

[MaiChai]

Why is Yingluck canvassing in Issan? She has their votes already? Or is this just PR/hiding from Bangkok?

Crosses my mind that the only way another interim government can be brought in to replace the YL government is if the military step in. Then a new government can make amendments before new elections. Maybe this is what Suthep is pushing for? Now you may or may not call this a coup!

[Robby nz]

I don't normally read the garbage you post Fab4 but because you have decided to pick on me, this time I have and I will answer.

Perhaps if you and your red mates wont believe words but perhaps you will believe photos. and the link :

http://www.dhammawhe...hp?f=12&t=19354

More pictures at Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/buddha.isara/posts/10152045598508446


Red Shirts gathering at the door of Wat Onoi, demanding the abbot not criticize the government:




Bags containing fecal matter are thrown to the monastery



More pictures:
https

[metisdead]

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[Spare]

Bangkok Post said the security officials have estimated 270,000, and we all know being in the control of the government that the quote will be definitely played down.

So was it the big million + ??

Possibly.

Bluesky was reporting 3.5 million. police reported 135,000. so somewhere int he middle is probably correct. I would say about a million or more!

I would tend to agree with that.

I have been in 100,000 (and upwards) crowds on a few occasions in my time, namely Glastonbury festival, Wembley Stadium concerts etc...

I have stood at the top of Olympia watching 100,000 people come up from Wembley Stadium, and they were cleared within 15 minutes. But here they have been 1 hour + crossing a bridge, and just one part of the protests.

So based on experience and the photos we have from different venues, I think an easy 1 million minimum. Not sure about 3.5 million, but a safe mill.

100,000 in 15 mins equal to 111 person per second. NOT possible.

[cmiuc]

of all these protests over the years, i never heard what is the problems... i have heard of all the colors, red, yellow, demo.. peui thai.. but never why... no issues ever listed...usually when people protest over something, it usually is pretty serious... even in the states,people want to kick Bama out over the OBcare... which is pretty serious for a lot of people, along with unemployment issues, but yet, nobody really has done that much of protesting... (or maybe i am wrong)... but here never heard why, it makes me think some idiot drums up the people to just dislike another person, when Taksin was in office it the head of some big Thai newspaper who didn't like him, that caused his problem, and now its Suthep, whoever he is, that doesnt like YL... I guess Thai's are such a social country that gossip and "i hate my brother" is the cause of their thinking... and then you put some lao khao and some red backs and people will do anything for you even they don't know why...

crazy... hehe and until their is an official counting, it still seems less than 1% don't like her... how can that bring down a gov't? I would tell them all to blow off... and get a job... (and not my job) hehe

[ManopY]

Looks like failed politico Suthep does not want elections. He wants to seize power.

Another mad man using similar language managed to manipulated the people in a country with the highest level of general knowledge, science and technology of the time. Hitler was elected to office by the overwhelming voting majority of Germans. His speeches containing trigger phrases such as the "struggle of the people" and "power to the people" are similar to the language Suthep is using now to rouse Thais. It speaks volumes of the Thai mindset and character. They seem prone to become blind drones for one side or the other.

Why is it that in a country where vote buying (from all sides) is a tradition, a Democrat does not want elections but to seize power?

Those who believe what Suthep said about retiring from politics are in deep denial of the obvious. They might as well join the hordes of his drones.

They are certainly buying of votes on both sides ... the difference is only that the red ones are purchasing their very cheap.

But they make the country pay it very expensive!

[jackr]

Whatever happens over the next year the problems are not going to go away. The economy and infrastructure pretty much echo the Thai philosophy of building. Foundations don't matter because they cost a lot but cannot be seen.

However foundations support everything and I'm afraid to say the house will come tumbling down soon.

Everything in Thailand is like a house of cards or one of those games you see in resorts where wood blocks are removed.

I might be missing something but I don't see Thailand as a nation like South Korea with well educated industrious people.

In fact I'd say Thailand is the opposite. No oil,minerals or major export ability. It has been a cheap labour/cheap holiday destination but like Spain etc tourist trades move on to the next hot spot.

Plenty of gas (oil by-product) in the Gulf, though I agree with the rest.

[jmccarty]

How is downtown Bangkok today?

I need to go in for business, where not to go today?

[affen02]

I can not with my good will understand the foreigners in here supporting the removal of an elected government, and support for a maniac who now also will stop the promised election, probably because there he know he will lose again. Foreigners talking about corruption as it was something new in Thailand, and just blossomed under the Thaksin years. Corruption has been, is , and will still be here long after our time, it is so deeply root fested in Thai society that i doubt it will ever entirely disappear. Suthep is proclaiming he speaks for the Thai people, well he might speak for the 150 000 or so on the streets of Bangkok, but what about the rest of the country. Just taste the words Peoples Democratic Reform Committee, this are words we know from Pol Pot, Soviet Union, Cuba and North Korea. It seems to be like the more democratic words they can put into a movement or government, the more fascist or dictator run it is, or becomes. Thailand is today dangerously close to a civil war, and i am deeply concerned for my family if so happen, and so should u all be. What if the masses, who by the way, far outnumber the few thousands on the streets of Bangkok by millions, decide to look at us foreigners as part of the Bangkok elite. What will happen to us then. I 'm glad i' m close to the Cambodian border, because that is probably one of the places where we end up, if we can make it out of here.

[allan michaud]

The PM posted a picture of her hugging her son with the caption: "I'm inspecting the work in many Northeast provinces and I have many missions to do each day. At least I have my son. We give moral support to each other."

So it's OK for her to bring her son into politics, but not if anyone else mentions him.

At least he is safe from fictitious attacks at his school.

[ILOOKFORWORK]

At least they got the number closer to the actual figure. The PDRC posted the following on their Facebook website - "Urban architect academics used maps/acreage to calculate that the protester tally between 17.00-18.00 hours today was approximately 5.6 million." I can't stop laughing at the insanity.

[aussieinthailand]

Bangkok Post said the security officials have estimated 270,000, and we all know being in the control of the government that the quote will be definitely played down.

So was it the big million + ??

Possibly.

Ok, one report say ten's of thousands, another report say's at least 150,000 thousand, but didn't Suthep say he would get 1.7 - 2.3 million???

and your asking "SO was it the big million+?"

and Y/L got seven protestors blowing whistle's,,, the numbers speak for themselves mate. The people of Thailand are against you.

[MaxLee]

I guess Bangkok ONLY Bangkok will have a very NEUTRAL dangerous Christmas and New Year, So dear travelers, get the hell out of Bangkok while you can, before anyone gets hurt for the rest until further notice...

Tourism ONLY Tourism, Bangkok ONLY Bangkok

The next upcoming article:

Protest affects Tourism arrivals by 1 million blablabla...

Edited December 23, 2013 by MaxLee

[gabruce]

so she quoted all these legal reasons why she could not step down from her role a CT PM - but again has neglected her duty to that office - she is either CT PM or not, this woman refuses to take responsibility for any duties even as caretaker

I would charge with derelict of duty and submit it to a court

Definitely she is campaigning for the upcoming election and not worrying about being PM, not to say that she spent much time being PM before the protests. So, maybe there isn't much difference between now and then, though I expect she won't be on many trips outside Thailand until the election happens (or doesn't happen).

[ILOOKFORWORK]

I don't normally read the garbage you post Fab4 but because you have decided to pick on me, this time I have and I will answer.

Perhaps if you and your red mates wont believe words but perhaps you will believe photos. and the link :

http://www.dhammawhe...hp?f=12&t=19354

Looks like more uninformed sheep are jumping on the bandwagon.

[HeavyDrinker]

Here we go again!! Another thread where posters are fighting each other about who are "the rightest of the right". Most of them sadly with limited knowledge of Thai society as a whole and even less when it comes to politics!! But good entertainment!!

May I suggest a solution to the political divide:

marieantoinetteexecute-a8b7aa02f3a17f0904724853bbfc83dc2b9c738a-s6-c30.jpg

Bye bye amart!!

Indeed and well put but it helps the breakfast go down with a chuckle....

[Spare]

Having FAILED to remove the govt by any of his moving feasts of final, absolute deadlines, he is now ThREATENING those who do wish to participate in the democratic process. What a sad and sorry excuse for someone meant to be serving the interests of the people ( corruption, insurrection and murder charges notwithstanding).

Yesterday's rally was a major flop for Suthep . It achieved nothing, so now he reverts to the previous policy of intimidation and implied violence. I wouldn't trust this guy for a second

So you think Yingluck has more credibility ...

How many promises has she completed?

Additionally, I am not a big beliver on the elections here in Thailand, it's widely known how the red buying votes...

But even the poor rice farmers also been cheated of the promised money, so the dissatisfaction is increasing even among them.

So, let's theorize, suppose there is no vote buying, which party will win the elections then?

DEM for sure.

Justification from last election:

PT get 15 millions vote = 7.5 real votes + 7.5 bought votes (my estimates of 50:50)

DEM get 11 million vote = 11 real votes.

[Hawkman]

Makes me laugh when people focus on one photo and say that's not 100,000 without realising the protests were in many, many places.

The western media are then fed lies about how many are protesting by reducing a huge percentage off the total (no one knows for sure, but it was big) and then you get the red shirt/sheep on here who believe what they are told.

For all the red shirts here moaning at the reasons behind the protests, I have one question, if it was the Dems in power and they tried to bring in a bill that would whitewash themselves from the shootings in 2010 and any other corruption they've done and at the same time brought in a Pledging Scheme that with Isaan tax money benefited certain elite in BKK and made some people in the Dems very rich while putting the country's finances under huge strain and then lie and talk down to the people it was all done in the sake of "reconciliation and forgiveness" (yes Yingluck, we believe in Santa Claus too).

What would they red shirts have done? Nothing?

[aussieinthailand]

""Whoever wants to go inside to register will have to pass through us," he said.

"If we do not hold the country by February 2, we will shut the country down. No one will go to vote," he added."

Did Suthep really say this? I know the APP seems to take a pro govt line in most of its stories, but they don't make stuff up. Suthep's authoritarian, PT like attitude of "my way is the only way" is getting worse. Man's barking mad and gorged on power, dangerous combination. He will be no better than PT and their red stormtroopers if he carries out these threats.

According to the BBC they are stopping anyone who wishes to register for Feb 2 elections, HOW VERY DEMOCRATIC,,, NOT...

[Spare]

Bangkok Post said the security officials have estimated 270,000, and we all know being in the control of the government that the quote will be definitely played down.

So was it the big million + ??

Possibly.

Bluesky was reporting 3.5 million. police reported 135,000. so somewhere int he middle is probably correct. I would say about a million or more!

I would tend to agree with that.

I have been in 100,000 (and upwards) crowds on a few occasions in my time, namely Glastonbury festival, Wembley Stadium concerts etc...

I have stood at the top of Olympia watching 100,000 people come up from Wembley Stadium, and they were cleared within 15 minutes. But here they have been 1 hour + crossing a bridge, and just one part of the protests.

So based on experience and the photos we have from different venues, I think an easy 1 million minimum. Not sure about 3.5 million, but a safe mill.

3.5 million is still short of the 5 ,million that came on 9-Dec (said BBC). Here is the proof:

RT @LilMsEditor: Haha. “@RichardBarrow: 4pm BBC World now saying 150,000 on the streets of #Bangkok. Rally stage still saying BBC said 5 million protesters”

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/687567-thailand-live-monday-9-dec-2013/page-6

[dru2]

Looks like failed politico Suthep does not want elections. He wants to seize power.

Another mad man using similar language managed to manipulated the people in a country with the highest level of general knowledge, science and technology of the time. Hitler was elected to office by the overwhelming voting majority of Germans. His speeches containing trigger phrases such as the "struggle of the people" and "power to the people" are similar to the language Suthep is using now to rouse Thais. It speaks volumes of the Thai mindset and character. They seem prone to become blind drones for one side or the other.

Why is it that in a country where vote buying (from all sides) is a tradition, a Democrat does not want elections but to seize power?

Those who believe what Suthep said about retiring from politics are in deep denial of the obvious. They might as well join the hordes of his drones.

The only significant word in your post is 'hordes'.