Bangkok overrun by huge protest

[GeorgeO]

Looks like failed politico Suthep does not want elections. He wants to seize power.

Another mad man using similar language managed to manipulated the people in a country with the highest level of general knowledge, science and technology of the time. Hitler was elected to office by the overwhelming voting majority of Germans. His speeches containing trigger phrases such as the "struggle of the people" and "power to the people" are similar to the language Suthep is using now to rouse Thais. It speaks volumes of the Thai mindset and character. They seem prone to become blind drones for one side or the other.

Why is it that in a country where vote buying (from all sides) is a tradition, a Democrat does not want elections but to seize power?

Those who believe what Suthep said about retiring from politics are in deep denial of the obvious. They might as well join the hordes of his drones.

Whilst arguing that the people are trying to "seize power" you have conveniently failed to mention issues that the current government are guilty of, and which are the real reason for the current protests ... issues such as corruption, disregard for the rule of law, disrespect of the very people that voted them in and contempt of the courts (unless they wish to use the very same courts to oppose the protesters)...!!

[Prbkk]

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" ( Joseph Goebbels)

Three men make a tiger ( Chinese proverb)

[MJP]

Looks like failed politico Suthep does not want elections. He wants to seize power.

Another mad man using similar language managed to manipulated the people in a country with the highest level of general knowledge, science and technology of the time. Hitler was elected to office by the overwhelming voting majority of Germans. His speeches containing trigger phrases such as the "struggle of the people" and "power to the people" are similar to the language Suthep is using now to rouse Thais. It speaks volumes of the Thai mindset and character. They seem prone to become blind drones for one side or the other.

Why is it that in a country where vote buying (from all sides) is a tradition, a Democrat does not want elections but to seize power?

Those who believe what Suthep said about retiring from politics are in deep denial of the obvious. They might as well join the hordes of his drones.

Whilst arguing that the people are trying to "seize power" you have conveniently failed to mention issues that the current government are guilty of, and which are the real reason for the current protests ... issues such as corruption, disregard for the rule of law, disrespect of the very people that voted them in and contempt of the courts (unless they wish to use the very same courts to oppose the protesters)...!!

If the farmers don't get paid it's all over for PTP. I do have to wonder whether the whole thing isn't a conspiracy against the poor, both sides collaborating to keep the poor as their servants.

[GeorgeO]

All quiet on Monday morning?

Yes. although many of the "small" people ( ie those who live by working, selling, cooking, cleaning and so on) are complaining about the prospect of more interruptions, fewer tourists, and consequently less money to feed their families.

so we are now to believe that you have taken on a role of walking the streets of Bangkok and interviewing the common folk on their opinions of the demonstrations. Give us a break prbkk...!!

[oldsailor35]

Since when is Isaan not a part of Thailand or is that one of the proposed political reforms - get rid of all the poor provinces?

To argue corruption as a reason to bring down a government in Thailand was a joke back in 2006 and is no less a joke today with an unconvicted criminal leading the opposition - Suthep needs to take power because it is now the only thing that can keep him out of jail or exile.

Protestors are determined it seems to rip the heart out of the country destroying investment, tourism and ordinary peoples lives

What choice do the protestors have when her ladyship and big brother refuse to allow the people to have a respectable country to call home, devoid of corruption and vote buying, which just provides lifelong employment to the same corrupt politicians.

Grow up, get some unbiased education and get real. This is Thailand and vote buying is done by all sides, if you don' believe that then best of luck. And just realise that Benito Suthep is probably one of the most corrupt in Thailand today. How do you think he has become a millionaire.His reason for doing what he is can only be the fear of a conviction for murder and his Hi So friends and supporters loosing their money making power and control over the so called "uneducated" classes.

[kirk0233]

Suthep is only the mouthpiece for the slow launch of a miliatry coup. The military with the help of influential others is using Suthep to create an emergency that requires a military intervention to reinstall the loyal subjects, the democrats, as the leading party and at the same time make changes they and the other one in charge favor in the constitution. The democracy of one person one vote is too much of a threat to the traditional institutions in Thailand. A political crisis has to occur in order for the military intervention to appear legitimate locally and internationally. The ongoing use of lese majeste to silence critics is a wonderous thing since the charges can never be revealed. A brilliant way to maintain military control of the country and silence critics while the lapdog democrats provide a democratic cover for the true powers behind the scene.

[SPIKECM]

In any other country the solution would lie in a conciliatory approach. With the arrogance on both sides, but especially on the Yellow side, this is a non starter. The only other solution is that the Democrat party change that stupid name they have and accept the election, but make another election in one year's time. During that time Aphisit and Co can get on with forming a real opposition party and criticize Thaksin's party for what it is. They have to understand that populism will always be popular in any democracy. It is the same the world over. If it wasn't for the Labour party's populist policies in the UK, the UK would be up there above Singapore amongst the highest GDP's in the world. That doesn't mean to say that people haven't a right to vote for a populist party. They do have and Aphisit and Co will have to get used to this. Suthep is a mad man. The Yellows don't know how good they have it in Thailand. This is nothing short of greed in my opinion. If they refuse this election there is no other way to go that some degree of civil war. The Elite's days are over. They are going to have to get used to the real world and the quicker they understand this, the less chance of a tragic situation emerging.

[Docno]

I really want Santa to bring me one of these drone things.

Just don't want one of them to have technical malfunction up there and drop on my head... you just know this will happen eventually, and those things will be made illegal.

[Prbkk]

All quiet on Monday morning?

Yes. although many of the "small" people ( ie those who live by working, selling, cooking, cleaning and so on) are complaining about the prospect of more interruptions, fewer tourists, and consequently less money to feed their families.

so we are now to believe that you have taken on a role of walking the streets of Bangkok and interviewing the common folk on their opinions of the demonstrations. Give us a break prbkk...!!

no, just a small sample: taxi, cafe owner, coffee guy, e juice seller...all complained about disruption. I don't solicit information or opinion but listen when it is offered

[Robby nz]

no, just a small sample: taxi, cafe owner, coffee guy, e juice seller...all complained about disruption. I don't solicit information or opinion but listen when it is offered

That would be the ones who the MRS tells me have all upped their prices to take advantage of the crowds, that, she tells me includes the 7/11s.

Those are of course the ones who have chosen not to either join in or give donations or provide free food and water to the protesters.

[Docno]

<snip>. They have to understand that populism will always be popular in any democracy. It is the same the world over. If it wasn't for the Labour party's populist policies in the UK, the UK would be up there above Singapore amongst the highest GDP's in the world. <snip>

Ha! The Singapore government does a darn good job at populism. Most Singaporeans live in subsidized housing. The government frequently upgrades these buildings ... putting in lifts, adding gardens and exercise areas, giving a new paint job, etc. Except if your district votes against the ruling PAP party. Then there are no upgrades to be had. The government/party is very open about this. The former PM, Goh Chok Tong, once gave a televised pre-election speech on the boundary of two electoral districts, one that tends to vote for the ruling party and one that tends to vote opposition. The camera angle was carefully chosen to show how different the public housing looked in both districts... and to my amazement, he explicitly highlighted the contrast in his speech. His basic message was 'if you want your housing to look shiny and new, you need to vote for us'. This district-by-district reward/punishment system seems a lot more questionable than subsidizing rice farmers (which, btw, a lot of countries, including the US, do).

[SouthernMan3]

Urban architect academics used maps / acreage to calculate that the protester tally between 17.00-18.00 hours today was approximately 5.6 million.

[JosteinSetsaas]

In which countries are the foreigners giving their full support to Suthep educated?

How many, and like myself, are now considered an urgent departure to a country like Malasya?

If interested in politics, have we retired now not got enough of political insanity, this considering

all the money we have spent in favor of Thailand?

[Bluespunk]

<snip>. They have to understand that populism will always be popular in any democracy. It is the same the world over. If it wasn't for the Labour party's populist policies in the UK, the UK would be up there above Singapore amongst the highest GDP's in the world. <snip>

Ha! The Singapore government does a darn good job at populism. Most Singaporeans live in subsidized housing. The government frequently upgrades these buildings ... putting in lifts, adding gardens and exercise areas, giving a new paint job, etc. Except if your district votes against the ruling PAP party. Then there are no upgrades to be had. The government/party is very open about this. The former PM, Goh Chok Tong, once gave a televised pre-election speech on the boundary of two electoral districts, one that tends to vote for the ruling party and one that tends to vote opposition. The camera angle was carefully chosen to show how different the public housing looked in both districts... and to my amazement, he explicitly highlighted the contrast in his speech. His basic message was 'if you want your housing to look shiny and new, you need to vote for us'. This district-by-district reward/punishment system seems a lot more questionable than subsidizing rice farmers (which, btw, a lot of countries, including the US, do).

Didn't thaksin make a similar threat back in the days when he took part in elections personally?

[Prbkk]

no, just a small sample: taxi, cafe owner, coffee guy, e juice seller...all complained about disruption. I don't solicit information or opinion but listen when it is offered

That would be the ones who the MRS tells me have all upped their prices to take advantage of the crowds, that, she tells me includes the 7/11s.

Those are of course the ones who have chosen not to either join in or give donations or provide free food and water to the protesters.

No, they would be the ones who are struggling to survive and who rely on income from week to week to make ends meet , to feed their families. The same ones who are terrified that their livelihoods are going to be adversely affected by the mob of self-interested, poor losers promoting feudalism and chaos.

[SPIKECM]

Yes,socialism and populism aren't necessarily the same thing, but I was only comparing GDP figures. Singapore is unique in so many ways, but I do remember Lee Kaun Yew making a comment on the UK's welfare state. Basically he said that might work for the UK, but it wouldn't work in Singapore. I am sure he was being ironic. I had a quick glance for some quote, but failed to come up with it.

<snip>. They have to understand that populism will always be popular in any democracy. It is the same the world over. If it wasn't for the Labour party's populist policies in the UK, the UK would be up there above Singapore amongst the highest GDP's in the world. <snip>

Ha! The Singapore government does a darn good job at populism. Most Singaporeans live in subsidized housing. The government frequently upgrades these buildings ... putting in lifts, adding gardens and exercise areas, giving a new paint job, etc. Except if your district votes against the ruling PAP party. Then there are no upgrades to be had. The government/party is very open about this. The former PM, Goh Chok Tong, once gave a televised pre-election speech on the boundary of two electoral districts, one that tends to vote for the ruling party and one that tends to vote opposition. The camera angle was carefully chosen to show how different the public housing looked in both districts... and to my amazement, he explicitly highlighted the contrast in his speech. His basic message was 'if you want your housing to look shiny and new, you need to vote for us'. This district-by-district reward/punishment system seems a lot more questionable than subsidizing rice farmers (which, btw, a lot of countries, including the US, do).

Edited December 23, 2013 by SPIKECM

[oldsailor35]

It will be quite useless waiting for the election until after a reform agreement has been decided on, this will go on for years. As has already been discovered, Benito Suthep will just not agree on anything, he keeps moving the goal posts daily. An excellent example is the matter of the elections itself, in the beginning he was 'demanding' it. When the PM said OK in the name of peace and stability for the nation, he then decided "I don't want an election" this meglomaniac is just that, 'crazy'. The government has to go ahead with the election wether the Dems want to be part of it or not, however if they do not participate, it will be a slap in the face for their members. Having got the election over, a Neutral Reform committee needs to be formed to work in parallel with the democratically elected government , not some dictatorship under Benito Suthep to discuss and design proposals for change and present them to the government who will then have to present them to the full parliament for discussion and approval.

This is the only way to do anything, but at all costs keep Benito Suthep out of the process. Abisit is a reasonable man who should be part of the process.

[virtualtraveller]

All these reports have the same familiar backstories about 'the hows, whys and wherefore' of Thaksin, the man at the heart of all this.

AFP, CNN, NYT et al should summarise it as follows;

Recent poll suggested Democrats and Puea Thai were neck and neck in popularity, it was a straw poll but probably more representative of true feeling since there was no overt election fraud activity.

Getting 350,000 people on to the streets is no mean feat, there must truly be something wrong with the present democratic process.

We have moved beyond the colour-coded politics here, let's ditch the royalist-elite-bangkok-southern-middleclass cliches shall we. This is about lots of peeved people who are sick of this merry-go-round and want the entire thing reformed properly for once. Politicians don't.

Forget this idea of the 'majority' or 'masses', they are indeed the largest group, possibly more than 50% and the only unifying thing about them is they shrug, don't pay too much attention and will go along with whatever puts a little more in their pocket next week. Their opinion, at the ballot or otherwise, is a poor one.

[oldsailor35]

""Whoever wants to go inside to register will have to pass through us," he said.

"If we do not hold the country by February 2, we will shut the country down. No one will go to vote," he added."

Did Suthep really say this? I know the APP seems to take a pro govt line in most of its stories, but they don't make stuff up. Suthep's authoritarian, PT like attitude of "my way is the only way" is getting worse. Man's barking mad and gorged on power, dangerous combination. He will be no better than PT and their red stormtroopers if he carries out these threats.

He already is no better. Barking mad is a very good description. He is promoting an ill thought out revolution. He has no white paper on his own subject, but making it all up as he goes along. If people follow this insanity, they will get nothing from it.

The Army will have to step in eventually and return the country to elections according to the constitution.

Thai people will one day have to realise there are no easy answers. Democracy comes one step at a time.

Dare I say what Thailand needs is what all governments need all over the world. Transparency. That's something that is hard won and usually only won, one case at a time. The rooting out of individual cases of corruption. One by one. Tricky and time consuming, but it has to be done, by those that are committed.

There are cases of massive corruption in Australia at present, involving government department heads and so forth. You can't hold the whole government to account, but make it harder and harder for individuals to get away with what they do.

The greatest benefit from this is to put the Shinawatra clan on "notice".

Mmmmm! Massive corruption ? i thought that the Australian Labour Party were sacked recently

[captspectre]

"Huge crowd at gates of BTS stations"

Who knew, or is that cares?

when the protesting clowns gather at bts or the subway, they bother normal working people who are just trying to go to work or go home, the clowns gather each night for free meals, water, and who else knows what they get for "being" around. IF they REALLY want to protest, go to the police station, army head quarters, and the government offices, LEAVE the normal hard working people alone!

[SPIKECM]

By standing on a podium next to Suthep, Aphisit looks less than a reasonable man than he might otherwise appear to be.

It will be quite useless waiting for the election until after a reform agreement has been decided on, this will go on for years. As has already been discovered, Benito Suthep will just not agree on anything, he keeps moving the goal posts daily. An excellent example is the matter of the elections itself, in the beginning he was 'demanding' it. When the PM said OK in the name of peace and stability for the nation, he then decided "I don't want an election" this meglomaniac is just that, 'crazy'. The government has to go ahead with the election wether the Dems want to be part of it or not, however if they do not participate, it will be a slap in the face for their members. Having got the election over, a Neutral Reform committee needs to be formed to work in parallel with the democratically elected government , not some dictatorship under Benito Suthep to discuss and design proposals for change and present them to the government who will then have to present them to the full parliament for discussion and approval.

This is the only way to do anything, but at all costs keep Benito Suthep out of the process. Abisit is a reasonable man who should be part of the process.

[ableguy]

""Whoever wants to go inside to register will have to pass through us," he said.

"If we do not hold the country by February 2, we will shut the country down. No one will go to vote," he added."

Did Suthep really say this? I know the APP seems to take a pro govt line in most of its stories, but they don't make stuff up. Suthep's authoritarian, PT like attitude of "my way is the only way" is getting worse. Man's barking mad and gorged on power, dangerous combination. He will be no better than PT and their red stormtroopers if he carries out these threats.

Suthep is acting very foolishly. The problem is that as everybody knows, Thailand's future hinges on the reaching, or just approaching, a nexus-point of consensus between rich/poor urban/rural. Problem number two, this is the bigger problem, and the one which Suthep's mad scheme totally does not factor in, is that the rural majority want democratic votes, they are the majority and also the serf class and so they feel that having their votes respected is very important. Suthep overturning the elected Govt and essentially spitting on all those casted votes, is going to cause immensely bad feelings around the nation.

On a practical level, yes Yingluck is no good, yes Thaksin should face additional massmurder charges for the 2500 deaths he ordered, and his nepotistic plundering of the State Fund, there is no dispute from me. But what was good is that PTP were voted for, got into power, and so their supporters put down the pitchforks and said "ok we've got our electoral rights now" etc. And they then started gradually criticising their own PTP members for failing, which is totally natural healthy democracy, and heading in the right direction. Suthep derailed that slow but natural process. The rural / poor thinking that it was great they had got Government's ear, but they didn't like their leadership, for failing to improve infrastructure etc. So they would put more internal pressure on PTP to act like a political party not just insurgents. This is very slow process. Meantime, Dems were gaining popularity also from the PTP failing.

The problems can all be solved without any of the Suthep stuff.

Re; Yingluck abuse of the policy-making machinery, can all be solved by Parliamentary reform, Parliament as a concept is a fluid system which invites augmentation to "get around" nation-specific difficulties, overhauling the mechanisms relating to the power balance of the various parties, their floor-time, and also the policy queueing system of which needs to be regulated by an external body. Thaksin passport issue should never reach the debate floor, especially during flood crisis as it did, that is just ridiculous. This can be solved by strictly regulating policy-submission and queueing. Those reforms take a long time, it also takes a long time for radical new parties such as PTP to settle into more progressive models. Especially as they began as a hero-worship cult. But you have to work with the materials you've got.

However, to scrap the whole process above, and just say "your votes don't matter" (paraphrasing Suthep's conceptual Assembly idea) is inviting disaster. I hope to be proved wrong on all this.

edit: mister coffee & typos

Not a bad post but you neglect the fact that a vote is viewed as a commodity to be traded and sold to the highest bidder in the north! democracy does not come into it.

[bigbamboo]

Whatever happens over the next year the problems are not going to go away. The economy and infrastructure pretty much echo the Thai philosophy of building. Foundations don't matter because they cost a lot but cannot be seen.

However foundations support everything and I'm afraid to say the house will come tumbling down soon.

Everything in Thailand is like a house of cards or one of those games you see in resorts where wood blocks are removed.

I might be missing something but I don't see Thailand as a nation like South Korea with well educated industrious people.

In fact I'd say Thailand is the opposite. No oil,minerals or major export ability. It has been a cheap labour/cheap holiday destination but like Spain etc tourist trades move on to the next hot spot.

'I might be missing something but I don't see Thailand as a nation like South Korea with well educated industrious people.'

That is because Korea got its civil war out of the way 60 years ago, and the country became divided.

The despotic power drunk populist and his minions in the north, and the democratic and more 'western influenced' in the south.

Then the border went up, and guess who came out on top?

If it ever went to a civil war, that would be the likely outcome.

Who knows what will happen next in a country when you have two dictatorial 'democratic' protagonists and religious separatists thrown in for good measure.

I guess the ultimate (and least desirable) scenario would be a three way division begetting the Kingdom of South Thailand under Phuna Suthep, the Democratic People's Republic of North Thailand under President Thaksin and the Islamic Republic of Pattani under pressure from Malaysia.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

[frozin1]

Vote buying... 50/50 for the PTP? Could you cite a source for that ratio?

Here's an excerpt from an article by Bangkok Pundit at The Asian Correspondent.

"The poll surveyed 1,289 between June 24-25, 2011. The answers were that 65.94% said they would not sell their votes, 26.3% said they would accept the money but would not vote for the person they were paid to vote for, and 4.11% said they would take the money and vote for the person they were paid to vote for."

Article link: http://asiancorrespondent.com/116697/vote-buying-thaksin-and-the-democrats/

So while money is accepted by a substantial cohort of voters, it would seem that only a small percentage constitute actual quid-pro-quo vote acquisition. No where near 50/50.

How does the 'contributing' party protect it's interests? Here's a link to an independent poll watchers report @ The Asia Foundation:

http://asiafoundation.org/in-asia/2011/07/13/dark-reality-to-vote-buying-in-thailand/

Pay particular attention to the last sentence of the article. It may well be the crux of Thailand's current political issues.

F1

[Bluespunk]

""Whoever wants to go inside to register will have to pass through us," he said.

"If we do not hold the country by February 2, we will shut the country down. No one will go to vote," he added."

Did Suthep really say this? I know the APP seems to take a pro govt line in most of its stories, but they don't make stuff up. Suthep's authoritarian, PT like attitude of "my way is the only way" is getting worse. Man's barking mad and gorged on power, dangerous combination. He will be no better than PT and their red stormtroopers if he carries out these threats.

He already is no better. Barking mad is a very good description. He is promoting an ill thought out revolution. He has no white paper on his own subject, but making it all up as he goes along. If people follow this insanity, they will get nothing from it.

The Army will have to step in eventually and return the country to elections according to the constitution.

Thai people will one day have to realise there are no easy answers. Democracy comes one step at a time.

Dare I say what Thailand needs is what all governments need all over the world. Transparency. That's something that is hard won and usually only won, one case at a time. The rooting out of individual cases of corruption. One by one. Tricky and time consuming, but it has to be done, by those that are committed.

There are cases of massive corruption in Australia at present, involving government department heads and so forth. You can't hold the whole government to account, but make it harder and harder for individuals to get away with what they do.

The greatest benefit from this is to put the Shinawatra clan on "notice".

Mmmmm! Massive corruption ? i thought that the Australian Labour Party were sacked recently

Both major parties being accused of corruption at present.

[ddavidovsky]

Suthep is only the mouthpiece for the slow launch of a miliatry coup. The military with the help of influential others is using Suthep to create an emergency that requires a military intervention to reinstall the loyal subjects, the democrats, as the leading party and at the same time make changes they and the other one in charge favor in the constitution. The democracy of one person one vote is too much of a threat to the traditional institutions in Thailand. A political crisis has to occur in order for the military intervention to appear legitimate locally and internationally. The ongoing use of lese majeste to silence critics is a wonderous thing since the charges can never be revealed. A brilliant way to maintain military control of the country and silence critics while the lapdog democrats provide a democratic cover for the true powers behind the scene.

This is the most insightful comment I've seen on this board in recent days.

Democracy will never work in Thailand as long as there is this alternative power base that sees itself as the true authority. The covert political manipulation that has been going on for decades is frankly staggering.

Frightening too how easily a mass of educated people have been brainwashed by the 'fighting corruption' mantra, as if corruption is something that can be eradicated overnight by decree. Corruption can only be combated by paying adequate salaries to everyone. The money for those salaries can only come from higher taxation. And the money for that taxation can only come from years of economic growth. And I would assume that this kind of economic growth would benefit most from a long-term levelling out of society. In short, it will take decades.

In the meantime, progressive democracy is the best bet. It doesn't matter if a government is good or bad - all governments screw up, even the best of them - the important thing is that it can be voted out if the screw-up is big enough. A non-democratic fascist system of the type being openly promulgated now in front of the Democracy Monument is not only a recipe for corruption on a mega-scale, but will be impossible to remove for a long time. If Suthep gets his way, Thailand is setting itself up for several decades of Suharto-like dictatorship.

[Tycoon]

BANGKOK: -- THE NUMBER of passengers using the BTS Skytrain yesterday was so great that operators at BTS stations such as Mo Chit, Siam, Asok, Sala Daeng, Chidlom had to open the gates and allow travellers to pass through without buying a ticket.

That would of killed them worse than any bomb. Public safety comes a distant last to the baht, never forget that in Thailand.

They would of been going mental, thinking of all those lost fares.

[metisdead]

Posts using derogatory nicknames or intentional misspelling of people’s names will be removed. If you don’t want your post to be removed, spell people’s names correctly.

[Docno]

Looks like failed politico Suthep does not want elections. He wants to seize power.

Another mad man using similar language managed to manipulated the people in a country with the highest level of general knowledge, science and technology of the time. Hitler was elected to office by the overwhelming voting majority of Germans. His speeches containing trigger phrases such as the "struggle of the people" and "power to the people" are similar to the language Suthep is using now to rouse Thais. It speaks volumes of the Thai mindset and character. They seem prone to become blind drones for one side or the other.

Why is it that in a country where vote buying (from all sides) is a tradition, a Democrat does not want elections but to seize power?

Those who believe what Suthep said about retiring from politics are in deep denial of the obvious. They might as well join the hordes of his drones.

Hitler never obtained more than 40% of the vote, he was appointed German Chancellor on the basis that he led the largest party.

At last, someone who actually knows History!

Interesting parallel. Leader of the party with the largest minority wins the election, forms a government and then manipulates and changes things to favor themselves and keep power for ever. That reminds me of someone more recent................. like Hitler also a convicted criminal.

Yes and no. Hitler never won a majority of the vote. But his popularity soared after the 1933 elections that you refer to. This article by one of the world's foremost historians of the Nazi period makes the point: http://www.historytoday.com/ian-kershaw/hitler-myth. Had there been a free and fair election in the mid- late 30s, Hitler would have likely won by a landslide (though he never risked this, and all later elections were shams). Basically, he promised that he would end the chaos in the streets that was horrifying ordinary Germans: he carried out this promise by aggressively persecuting the left and by violently purging the more outwardly thuggish elements of his own party (the brown shirts). I'm not sure what to make of Suthep. I'm always wary of English translations of Thai speeches, but some of what I've read suggests that he's become drunk on power... all this talk about putting his life down for the cause, etc. Hitler did make the same claims... sacrificing his well-being and life for the good of the German nation. And Suthep's speaking style sometimes approaches the rabid style we associate with Hitler ... soaring emotion (outrage and anger), threats, and demands . ... a very different style from the likes of King or Mandela, for instance.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Docno

[Larry001]

Suthep who ???? Madman