How I Really Ticked Off A Couple Thais

[cmsally]

Hey cmsally,

Was there ever a time in your life when you were surprised that a person would willing kill you if you were crossing the street simply because you occupied the same space as their vehicle's intended path. Are you so callous that you would ridicule someone for being surprised? What do you say to the old lady or obese person who can't sprint across the road?

I really don't understand the logic that says if something exists in Thailand, it must be alright. Perhaps we should all agree that rape is cool becuase it happens a lot in Thailand - like it or leave it.

My point was to use an extreme example to point out that you need to go out with an attitude of self preservation. You can't expect the other person to slow down or stop. Some people assume you will get out of their way and others just don't see you! Although I always slow down or stop when there's a crossing, light etc. I agree with others in that I wouldn't slam on brakes and there's one good reason for that. 80% of drivers get far too close to other cars. You can see accidents caused by this frequently on crowded highways. One car has to brake and one or even up to 4 or 5 pile into the back - simple reason is they don't allow enough space between them and the car in front. Looking at the chalk marks on the road these seem to be the most common types of accident in the city area.

[JXXXL]

Hey cmsally,

Was there ever a time in your life when you were surprised that a person would willing kill you if you were crossing the street simply because you occupied the same space as their vehicle's intended path. Are you so callous that you would ridicule someone for being surprised? What do you say to the old lady or obese person who can't sprint across the road?

I really don't understand the logic that says if something exists in Thailand, it must be alright. Perhaps we should all agree that rape is cool becuase it happens a lot in Thailand - like it or leave it.

My point was to use an extreme example to point out that you need to go out with an attitude of self preservation. You can't expect the other person to slow down or stop. Some people assume you will get out of their way and others just don't see you! Although I always slow down or stop when there's a crossing, light etc. I agree with others in that I wouldn't slam on brakes and there's one good reason for that. 80% of drivers get far too close to other cars. You can see accidents caused by this frequently on crowded highways. One car has to brake and one or even up to 4 or 5 pile into the back - simple reason is they don't allow enough space between them and the car in front. Looking at the chalk marks on the road these seem to be the most common types of accident in the city area.

So you would rather kill someone than risk being rear ended by the car behind you? Funny, cause I stop all the time for pedestrians and never have had a close call. Do you even own a car?

[Ajarn]

Hey cmsally,

Was there ever a time in your life when you were surprised that a person would willing kill you if you were crossing the street simply because you occupied the same space as their vehicle's intended path. Are you so callous that you would ridicule someone for being surprised? What do you say to the old lady or obese person who can't sprint across the road?

I really don't understand the logic that says if something exists in Thailand, it must be alright. Perhaps we should all agree that rape is cool becuase it happens a lot in Thailand - like it or leave it.

My point was to use an extreme example to point out that you need to go out with an attitude of self preservation. You can't expect the other person to slow down or stop. Some people assume you will get out of their way and others just don't see you! Although I always slow down or stop when there's a crossing, light etc. I agree with others in that I wouldn't slam on brakes and there's one good reason for that. 80% of drivers get far too close to other cars. You can see accidents caused by this frequently on crowded highways. One car has to brake and one or even up to 4 or 5 pile into the back - simple reason is they don't allow enough space between them and the car in front. Looking at the chalk marks on the road these seem to be the most common types of accident in the city area.

So you would rather kill someone than risk being rear ended by the car behind you? Funny, cause I stop all the time for pedestrians and never have had a close call. Do you even own a car?

If I want to stop for a pedestian, I must take my eyes off the front of my car and look behind my car long enough to accurately judge the speed/intentions of anyone coming up from behind. Dangerous, obviously, because my attention is taken away from whatever I may hit...

Frankly, sometimes I feel that I can't look back because there is too much going on infront of me to risk an accident, so I don't stop for the pedestrian, therby making a safe choice for me, other traffic, and the pedestrian.

If you decide to stop for the pedestrian anyway, and you don't have an accident, then I'd say you're lucky, not a better driver.

[SamSipEt]

When I have guests visiting I always point out the crossings but emphasise that the local drivers (both Thai and non Thai) frequently ignore the red lights so be very very careful when crossing the road. I’ve never had a problem simply because I look out for the erratic drivers who seem to be in the majority! I certainly don’t excuse it but accept it and understand that it happens – a bit like countries where people drive on the wrong side of the road – they are wrong but won’t change to driving on the left

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Hey cmsally,

Was there ever a time in your life when you were surprised that a person would willing kill you if you were crossing the street simply because you occupied the same space as their vehicle's intended path. Are you so callous that you would ridicule someone for being surprised? What do you say to the old lady or obese person who can't sprint across the road?

I really don't understand the logic that says if something exists in Thailand, it must be alright. Perhaps we should all agree that rape is cool becuase it happens a lot in Thailand - like it or leave it.

My point was to use an extreme example to point out that you need to go out with an attitude of self preservation. You can't expect the other person to slow down or stop. Some people assume you will get out of their way and others just don't see you! Although I always slow down or stop when there's a crossing, light etc. I agree with others in that I wouldn't slam on brakes and there's one good reason for that. 80% of drivers get far too close to other cars. You can see accidents caused by this frequently on crowded highways. One car has to brake and one or even up to 4 or 5 pile into the back - simple reason is they don't allow enough space between them and the car in front. Looking at the chalk marks on the road these seem to be the most common types of accident in the city area.

So you would rather kill someone than risk being rear ended by the car behind you? Funny, cause I stop all the time for pedestrians and never have had a close call. Do you even own a car?

If I want to stop for a pedestian, I must take my eyes off the front of my car and look behind my car long enough to accurately judge the speed/intentions of anyone coming up from behind. Dangerous, obviously, because my attention is taken away from whatever I may hit...

Frankly, sometimes I feel that I can't look back because there is too much going on infront of me to risk an accident, so I don't stop for the pedestrian, therby making a safe choice for me, other traffic, and the pedestrian.

If you decide to stop for the pedestrian anyway, and you don't have an accident, then I'd say you're lucky, not a better driver.

Shouldn't you always check your mirror anyway - as you just said - there are always cars that are too close!

[SamSipEt]

Oops can I correct myself? To point out the obvious here they drive on both sides of the road in all directions simultaneously with the odd enterprising driver on the pavement as well…

[likite]

To point out the obvious here they drive on both sides of the road in all directions simultaneously with the odd enterprising driver on the pavement as well

…

....and those are the good drivers

[p1p]

Shouldn't you always check your mirror anyway - as you just said - there are always cars that are too close!

Rules are very simple.

Mirror - Signal - (Mirror) - Manoeuver. You never undertake any manoeuver without first signalling your intentions and checking all round that it is safe to do so. Your driving should always be a constant inventory of potential dangers, (using your mirrors) in any case.

Furthermore, if stopping at lights etc. you never remove your foot from the brake until you are certain traffic behind has safely stopped and is in no danger of hitting you and pushing you through the lights. Surprisingly, if you do not take such precautions, you could be held responsible for third party's injuries if you hit them in such circumstances.

[JXXXL]

Hey cmsally,

Was there ever a time in your life when you were surprised that a person would willing kill you if you were crossing the street simply because you occupied the same space as their vehicle's intended path. Are you so callous that you would ridicule someone for being surprised? What do you say to the old lady or obese person who can't sprint across the road?

I really don't understand the logic that says if something exists in Thailand, it must be alright. Perhaps we should all agree that rape is cool becuase it happens a lot in Thailand - like it or leave it.

My point was to use an extreme example to point out that you need to go out with an attitude of self preservation. You can't expect the other person to slow down or stop. Some people assume you will get out of their way and others just don't see you! Although I always slow down or stop when there's a crossing, light etc. I agree with others in that I wouldn't slam on brakes and there's one good reason for that. 80% of drivers get far too close to other cars. You can see accidents caused by this frequently on crowded highways. One car has to brake and one or even up to 4 or 5 pile into the back - simple reason is they don't allow enough space between them and the car in front. Looking at the chalk marks on the road these seem to be the most common types of accident in the city area.

So you would rather kill someone than risk being rear ended by the car behind you? Funny, cause I stop all the time for pedestrians and never have had a close call. Do you even own a car?

If I want to stop for a pedestian, I must take my eyes off the front of my car and look behind my car long enough to accurately judge the speed/intentions of anyone coming up from behind. Dangerous, obviously, because my attention is taken away from whatever I may hit...

Frankly, sometimes I feel that I can't look back because there is too much going on infront of me to risk an accident, so I don't stop for the pedestrian, therby making a safe choice for me, other traffic, and the pedestrian.

If you decide to stop for the pedestrian anyway, and you don't have an accident, then I'd say you're lucky, not a better driver.

Sorry but that is a REALLY LAME excuse. How is it that in much of the developed people are expected to stop, and mostly do, and not have problems with rear enders? I'm not talking about emergency stops here, just courtesy and respect for human life.

Given your rational, you better not stop for traffic lights or the multitude of other things drivers are expected to stop for.

I'm sure you're just trying to have the last word on this. Your rational is just too rediculous to make sense to anyone who has experience behind the wheel.

Edited May 19, 2006 by JXXXL

[likite]

If I want to stop for a pedestian, I must take my eyes off the front of my car and look behind my car long enough to accurately judge the speed/intentions of anyone coming up from behind. Dangerous, obviously, because my attention is taken away from whatever I may hit...

Yeah right................... it's called driving.

[Johpa]

The Thai have no meaningful infrastructure in place that reconciles the differing and often conflicting needs of the pedestrian and the motorist. Thus, negotiating the highways and byeways of this silly country is fraught with danger and one literally takes one's life in one's hands when crossing a road or using the services of a songthaew driver who genetically belongs to another species of man.

Actually I found that there exists some sort of logic to Thai traffic. I am not able to articulate it, but certainly I am able to both drive in Thai traffic and walk about in a Thai city without being overly concerned.

No doubt that driving, either a car or a motorbike, clearly takes a bit more concentration in Thailand than say on an American or UK highway. But I am still able to drive and have a conversation and listen to the radio all at the same time without getting bent out of shape.

I also have no problems crossing the street at a busy intersection. Certainly not as simple as waiting for the traffic to stop at a red light while the pedestrians get a green light, but once you get a sense of the traffic one can cross the street quite safely.

Most Thai road accidents involve alcohol so best not to dribe drunk and best to avoid driving in the wee hours when the drubks head home from the bars.

[Ajarn]

Hey cmsally,

Was there ever a time in your life when you were surprised that a person would willing kill you if you were crossing the street simply because you occupied the same space as their vehicle's intended path. Are you so callous that you would ridicule someone for being surprised? What do you say to the old lady or obese person who can't sprint across the road?

I really don't understand the logic that says if something exists in Thailand, it must be alright. Perhaps we should all agree that rape is cool becuase it happens a lot in Thailand - like it or leave it.

My point was to use an extreme example to point out that you need to go out with an attitude of self preservation. You can't expect the other person to slow down or stop. Some people assume you will get out of their way and others just don't see you! Although I always slow down or stop when there's a crossing, light etc. I agree with others in that I wouldn't slam on brakes and there's one good reason for that. 80% of drivers get far too close to other cars. You can see accidents caused by this frequently on crowded highways. One car has to brake and one or even up to 4 or 5 pile into the back - simple reason is they don't allow enough space between them and the car in front. Looking at the chalk marks on the road these seem to be the most common types of accident in the city area.

So you would rather kill someone than risk being rear ended by the car behind you? Funny, cause I stop all the time for pedestrians and never have had a close call. Do you even own a car?

If I want to stop for a pedestian, I must take my eyes off the front of my car and look behind my car long enough to accurately judge the speed/intentions of anyone coming up from behind. Dangerous, obviously, because my attention is taken away from whatever I may hit...

Frankly, sometimes I feel that I can't look back because there is too much going on infront of me to risk an accident, so I don't stop for the pedestrian, therby making a safe choice for me, other traffic, and the pedestrian.

If you decide to stop for the pedestrian anyway, and you don't have an accident, then I'd say you're lucky, not a better driver.

Sorry but that is a REALLY LAME excuse. How is it that in much of the developed people are expected to stop, and mostly do, and not have problems with rear enders? I'm not talking about emergency stops here, just courtesy and respect for human life.

Given your rational, you better not stop for traffic lights or the multitude of other things drivers are expected to stop for.

I'm sure you're just trying to have the last word on this. Your rational is just too rediculous to make sense to anyone who has experience behind the wheel.

And you, sir, simply want to argue and harangue others, it seems

[JXXXL]

And you, sir, simply want to argue and harangue others, it seems

No, actually I just want to harangue people who treat posters like idiots who may be surprised at lack of civilization that seems to be commonly accepted by many of the farangs living here.

There's some civilization, or lack thereof, that we all love but there is a lot of ugliness here that is too easily rationalized by people like you.

[Griffin]

I have driven in 4 different countries but don't fancy it here unless I am in a rural area or a tank. Thais apply the same amount of sense to driving as most things. Zero. Hence the mind blowing death toll.

According to official statistics (police), 14,446 people were killed in road crashes in 2003. However the real number might even be higher. According to documentation from the health sector, the real death toll could be 20,000 or higher if victims who die after being removed from the crash scene are included.

To get back to the OP. He was pushing his luck with the bike guy but the Songtaw driver was typical of public transport drivers the world over. Low Paid. Low education. Shouldn't mess around for the sake of a few baht.

[Ajarn]

And you, sir, simply want to argue and harangue others, it seems

No, actually I just want to harangue people who treat posters like idiots who may be surprised at lack of civilization that seems to be commonly accepted by many of the farangs living here.

There's some civilization, or lack thereof, that we all love but there is a lot of ugliness here that is too easily rationalized by people like you.

I guess you'll have to live with your vision of life. Me, who has 20 plus years of driving here with no acidents will just continue along my merry way...

[Plus]

I know only one pedestrian crossing with traffic lights here. If someone wants to cross the road he/she pushes the button and waits, like they do in civilised world.

No one ever slows down if there are no pedestrians and the light is green. Why would they?

Everywhere else people stop for pedestrians only if the speed is already low. It's completely unexpected if someone in a long line of fast moving traffic starts breaking because he spotted a pedestrian a hundred meters away. What is so difficult to understand here?

[The Dan Sai Kid]

And you, sir, simply want to argue and harangue others, it seems

No, actually I just want to harangue people who treat posters like idiots who may be surprised at lack of civilization that seems to be commonly accepted by many of the farangs living here.

There's some civilization, or lack thereof, that we all love but there is a lot of ugliness here that is too easily rationalized by people like you.

I guess you'll have to live with your vision of life. Me, who has 20 plus years of driving here with no acidents will just continue along my merry way...

But, they have not had the pedestrian crossings with lights for very long - a very recent addition.

I do think it is scarey that people don't feel safe crossing at these places - I know that you see people winging it across them all the time - cos they don't want to be hit

[...Ken]

To point out the obvious here they drive on both sides of the road in all directions simultaneously with the odd enterprising driver on the pavement as well

…

....and those are the good drivers

I have logged a fair few miles on motorcycle in North Thailand over a fair few years with never a serious fall. IMHO....the average male Thai driver has better eye/hand control and probably superior depth perception than your average Farrang. Of course, I still curse that oncoming bus passing the pickup on those tight Chieng Dao corners.......but, the Thais do have a driving system that I have reluctantly become to 'appreciate'. For example, that flashing headlight business, I have had numerous rural busses, big transport trucks and Benz's come bearing down on me (motorcycle) in my lane , flashing their lights to tell me to bugger off and hit the ditch.

It took some years to learn, but if you flash your lights back.... and stay your course, they recognize that you do have the legal right away and they will pull back in line. I am not advocating playing chicken with a semi truck, but that there IS a working system.

However, I will add that during every 100 km run to/from our village home I have at least one major defensive action to maintain my life. A wee dram of courage does steel the nerves.

As for crossing the streets in Chiengmai....there is always a monk crossing somewhere, keep a bit upstream and you should be alright. Bad luck to hit a monk.

....Ken

[Loaded]

Anybody recollect the details from a few years back regarding the farang biker who was shot and killed by the Thai driver that he pissed off? Think the guy flipped off the Thai, cut him off, or something like that. If memory serves, this happened somewhere along Moon Muang Rd.

The fat German guy? I met him a few times and he was rude and ignorant (RIP) to Thais working in bars. I heard he did a u-turn at DK books but was followed round by a car that wanted to pass him, he flipped his middle finger. At the montri hotel junction the car pulled in front of him, driver got out and then blew him away at point blank range. Within a couple of hours the driver was arrested...then released. The story was he was a mwmber of the judiciary!!! I know a Thai speaking bar owner who told me his staff were approached the next day and told if they identified the person in the photograph as the shooter they would earn 5K baht.

[Ajarn]

have logged a fair few miles on motorcycle in North Thailand over a fair few years with never a serious fall. IMHO....the average male Thai driver has better eye/hand control and probably superior depth perception than your average Farrang. Of course, I still curse that oncoming bus passing the pickup on those tight Chieng Dao corners.......but, the Thais do have a driving system that I have reluctantly become to 'appreciate'. For example, that flashing headlight business, I have had numerous rural busses, big transport trucks and Benz's come bearing down on me (motorcycle) in my lane , flashing their lights to tell me to bugger off and hit the ditch.

It took some years to learn, but if you flash your lights back.... and stay your course, they recognize that you do have the legal right away and they will pull back in line. I am not advocating playing chicken with a semi truck, but that there IS a working system.

I certainly agree with you on this one, Ken. Thais do have a system of driving here, and if you pay attention and play your proper role, you, too, can survive here. Usually

Also, leave your driving ego at home. If you think that they are all after you, and you want to get even or show your feelings by acting anti-social, it's time for a rest, perhaps

[Ajarn]

And you, sir, simply want to argue and harangue others, it seems

No, actually I just want to harangue people who treat posters like idiots who may be surprised at lack of civilization that seems to be commonly accepted by many of the farangs living here.

There's some civilization, or lack thereof, that we all love but there is a lot of ugliness here that is too easily rationalized by people like you.

I guess you'll have to live with your vision of life. Me, who has 20 plus years of driving here with no acidents will just continue along my merry way...

But, they have not had the pedestrian crossings with lights for very long - a very recent addition.

I do think it is scarey that people don't feel safe crossing at these places - I know that you see people winging it across them all the time - cos they don't want to be hit

Just to make sure I don't give the wrong impression, I always stop when the crossing light is red and someone wants to cross. My comments about pedestrians were referring to anywhere/anytime, but not at crossings, generally.

[Loaded]

Approaching crossings can be tricky. If you slow down suddenly to allow someone to cross, there's a very good chance the car or motorbike behind you won't be thinking the same way.

Before I brake I'll take a quick look in my rear view mirror, check where the pedestrian is and then make my decision based on common sense.

[Tywais]

Just to make sure I don't give the wrong impression, I always stop when the crossing light is red and someone wants to cross. My comments about pedestrians were referring to anywhere/anytime, but not at crossings, generally.

Same here but I do watch my rear view mirror carefully.

[ovenman]

No one ever slows down if there are no pedestrians and the light is green. Why would they?

True. What bothers me is that drivers don't stop for these lights if they are red and no pedestrian is crossing the street. I know, TIT, but I can't say I've ever been anywhere else where this selective process occurs as to which traffic lights are the ones to be obeyed.

[ovenman]

Anybody recollect the details from a few years back regarding the farang biker who was shot and killed by the Thai driver that he pissed off? Think the guy flipped off the Thai, cut him off, or something like that. If memory serves, this happened somewhere along Moon Muang Rd.

The fat German guy? I met him a few times and he was rude and ignorant (RIP) to Thais working in bars. I heard he did a u-turn at DK books but was followed round by a car that wanted to pass him, he flipped his middle finger. At the montri hotel junction the car pulled in front of him, driver got out and then blew him away at point blank range. Within a couple of hours the driver was arrested...then released. The story was he was a mwmber of the judiciary!!! I know a Thai speaking bar owner who told me his staff were approached the next day and told if they identified the person in the photograph as the shooter they would earn 5K baht.

Now that you've jogged my memory, that sounds about right. I'd like to say the incident occurred in 2001 or so but my recollection may be faulty in that regard. My point in bringing up the incident at all being that one may want to take care in regards to the Thai that they choose to tick off (to steal words from the thread title). Life can be awfully cheap here...

[Ajarn]

The fat German guy? I met him a few times and he was rude and ignorant (RIP) to Thais working in bars. I heard he did a u-turn at DK books but was followed round by a car that wanted to pass him, he flipped his middle finger. At the montri hotel junction the car pulled in front of him, driver got out and then blew him away at point blank range. Within a couple of hours the driver was arrested...then released. The story was he was a mwmber of the judiciary!!! I know a Thai speaking bar owner who told me his staff were approached the next day and told if they identified the person in the photograph as the shooter they would earn 5K baht.

Now that you've jogged my memory, that sounds about right. I'd like to say the incident occurred in 2001 or so but my recollection may be faulty in that regard. My point in bringing up the incident at all being that one may want to take care in regards to the Thai that they choose to tick off (to steal words from the thread title). Life can be awfully cheap here...

Many years ago, while riding my bike on Chotana, I had a songthaew cut a u-turn right in front of me, forcing me to slide to a stop. I yelled out 'ay hia!' very loudly. Loud enough for his ears, anyway. He immediately slammed his truck into reverse and tried to run me over.

That got my attention. From then on, if I wanted to swear, I swore in English. Helped me to feel better, and it doesn't bother anyone else around me...

True. What bothers me is that drivers don't stop for these lights if they are red and no pedestrian is crossing the street. I know, TIT, but I can't say I've ever been anywhere else where this selective process occurs as to which traffic lights are the ones to be obeyed.

I can't imagine myself stopping either. Maybe I've been here too long, but I can not imagine anyone doing it differently...

[el jefe]

Hey cmsally,

Was there ever a time in your life when you were surprised that a person would willing kill you if you were crossing the street simply because you occupied the same space as their vehicle's intended path. Are you so callous that you would ridicule someone for being surprised? What do you say to the old lady or obese person who can't sprint across the road?

I really don't understand the logic that says if something exists in Thailand, it must be alright. Perhaps we should all agree that rape is cool becuase it happens a lot in Thailand - like it or leave it.

My point was to use an extreme example to point out that you need to go out with an attitude of self preservation. You can't expect the other person to slow down or stop. Some people assume you will get out of their way and others just don't see you! Although I always slow down or stop when there's a crossing, light etc. I agree with others in that I wouldn't slam on brakes and there's one good reason for that. 80% of drivers get far too close to other cars. You can see accidents caused by this frequently on crowded highways. One car has to brake and one or even up to 4 or 5 pile into the back - simple reason is they don't allow enough space between them and the car in front. Looking at the chalk marks on the road these seem to be the most common types of accident in the city area.

So you would rather kill someone than risk being rear ended by the car behind you? Funny, cause I stop all the time for pedestrians and never have had a close call. Do you even own a car?

If I want to stop for a pedestian, I must take my eyes off the front of my car and look behind my car long enough to accurately judge the speed/intentions of anyone coming up from behind. Dangerous, obviously, because my attention is taken away from whatever I may hit...

Frankly, sometimes I feel that I can't look back because there is too much going on infront of me to risk an accident, so I don't stop for the pedestrian, therby making a safe choice for me, other traffic, and the pedestrian.

If you decide to stop for the pedestrian anyway, and you don't have an accident, then I'd say you're lucky, not a better driver.

That's the scariest thing I've ever read about driving or walking here. Please let me know when you'll be on the road so I can make sure I'll be indoors.

[JXXXL]

That's the scariest thing I've ever read about driving or walking here. Please let me know when you'll be on the road so I can make sure I'll be indoors.

Yea, pretty scary when you read what's going on in some peoples' heads.

Edited May 19, 2006 by JXXXL

[Loaded]

To pass your driving test in The UK you must use the Mirror Signal Manouvre (MSM) sequence everytime before you change speed or direction. Failure to do so means you don't obtain a driving licence. Comments from posters that this is not possible suggests that those posters shouldn't bother trying to achieve the British driving licence.

British roads are generally narrower, more windy and have more things happening than the wide roads of N. America. It's a fair assumption that this experience helps to develop driving competence to a higher level than the non-challenging, everyone-has-an-automatic-gearbox roads of da usa.

I guess this is why, in general, British drivers are far more competent than North Americans.

Edited May 20, 2006 by Loaded

[Tywais]

I guess this is why in general British drivers are far more competent than North Americans.

Don't you just love these generalizations. Drop a Brit into the middle of NYC, Chicago or LA and see how they fair. Better be wearing lead pants or diapers.