EC approves borrowing to maintain Thai rice pledging

[kingalfred]

The electoral commision is as bent and corrupt as the rest of the government bodies. .DSI etc

[Ulic]

Actually Yingluck already has the northern vote and does not need this to go through at this time. The rice farmers know

if she does not win the election the rice scheme bonanza is over. They will be more motivated than ever to get out and vote to make

sure they are paid for rice they have already pledged. If she wins the scheme is likely to continue, maybe at a reduced rate, if

Suthep wins the power struggle it will be over right quick.

[Briggsy]

Is this the path the Thai economy is heading on?

budget deficit --> increase in government debt --> increase in interest rates --> inflation

[Old Man River]

Can someone please explain to me why the election commission has any authority whatsoever over the rice pledging scheme?

It doesn't. However, since an election has been called if the government wants to raise cash (or do anything that would impact the next government) it must get the approval of the electoral commission.

Basically, the government are not allowed to make 'extra-budgetary' moves while parliament is dissolved. Because they are normally subject to parliamentary procedure.

However, this type of request would normally be expected to be rejected unless the Election Commission is corrupted by outside influences. Mainly because it would almost certainly be seen as an exercise to gain votes with public funds.

This and a few other incidents over the past week or so has basically drawn a line under the fact that this Election Commission has been seriously tainted by Thaksin and the PTP which everyone knows anyway.

Another reminder that Suthep and the protesters are 100% correct about reform before elections and that this government and the entire Thaksin regime must go before there is an election they will support or accept.

If only the UN had a department where it can loan out an non-corruptible Election Commission to countries who have severe problems with fair elections it would be a godsend. Because if any country needed something like this, then Thailand would come at (or near) the top of the list.

Nibbles, previously, before the dissolution when they thought the Amnesty Bill was going through and they expected to be in power for many years, the now acting government was going to do a bond issue. However, they pulled that bond issue back as investors wanted a higher return (it was more expensive than they thought).

Now, as you state, the cost to the Country is secondary to getting the farmers paid as an unexpected election is upcoming.

I really don't have a problem with the EC's approval as they are caught in the middle. If they say no and the farmers don't get paid, they are open to lawsuits. Saying yes, it shifts the added cost of the rice scheme directly where it belongs (the PT).

[JRSoul]

If the farmers are angry because they haven't been paid, and the government has run out of money while sitting on huge rice stocks, the obvious solution is to give the farmers back their bloody rice. This has a number of benefits; government debt is reduced, storage costs are reduced, and farmers are back where they started from, and will get a lesson in what the stuff is worth when they try to sell it.

The downside is that without the subsidy's appeal to their venality, farmers might not vote PTP. But why should that bother a neutral EC?

[Robby nz]

And today 26 / 12

Sorry no link but if you look elsewhere you will find the whole story.

The Caretaker Govt EXPECTS to get the go ahead from the EC to raise money through bonds

The minister of white lies says he wants to issue bonds worth 13 billion.

There was supposed to be a meeting yesterday to talk about that but it is postponed till Jan 3.

Public debt management office is still refusing to sign to borrow money as they are waiting for a legal team to study the matter, no confirmation has been received from the EC.

The BAAC is letting farmers borrow from the bank using their pledging guarantee as collateral.

So the farmers are now :

"Another day older and deeper in debt"

[MYKTHEMIN]

Where's my rubber fertiliser subsidy?

All the rubber growers are in the south so by default must be Dem supporters so ipso facto the government doesn't give a rats ass about you. Meanwhile the PT crooks voters are the farmers in the north whom they are bending over backwards trying to borrow money to pay them in order to secure their votes again in a month and a bit after which they can go and screw themselves too I am sure...

I am in the north issan along with 1000's of other rubber growers!

[smedly]

something I've been saying for weeks now

This government is very obviously broke - I'd like to see an investigation into the accounts and finances of the treasury by an independent accounts team, only then will the truth come out

[Robby nz]

So what we see now is that the farmers have sold their rice to the Govt through a mill for less than they have been promised.

In exchanged they have been given a bit of paper and told to go to the Govt owned bank which will exchange the paper for cash.

Full of expectation they turn up at the Govt bank and the bank says :

"Sorry we have no money to pay you but we will lend you money till we get money from the Govt to pay you".

So the farmer scratches his head and says " hang on a bit if you have no money to pay me where are you getting the money to lend me"

Ah its like this says the banker " the Govt hasn't given us money to give to you but we have some of our own money that we can lend you"

After more head scratching the farmer says " look this is a Govt bank owned by the Govt and therefore part of the Govt so all the money you call your money is actually the Govts money and therefore you should give it to us because it is the Govt that owes us the money.

AH yes but............................... says the banker.

What a monumental cock up.

If there had been anyone in the finance ministry with any foresight this and other things like the diesel fund would have all been sorted before the Govt was dissolved.

[rametindallas]

Can someone please explain to me why the election commission has any authority whatsoever over the rice pledging scheme?

It doesn't. However, since an election has been called if the government wants to raise cash (or do anything that would impact the next government) it must get the approval of the electoral commission.

Basically, the government are not allowed to make 'extra-budgetary' moves while parliament is dissolved. Because they are normally subject to parliamentary procedure.

However, this type of request would normally be expected to be rejected unless the Election Commission is corrupted by outside influences. Mainly because it would almost certainly be seen as an exercise to gain votes with public funds.

This and a few other incidents over the past week or so has basically drawn a line under the fact that this Election Commission has been seriously tainted by Thaksin and the PTP which everyone knows anyway.

Another reminder that Suthep and the protesters are 100% correct about reform before elections and that this government and the entire Thaksin regime must go before there is an election they will support or accept.

If only the UN had a department where it can loan out an non-corruptible Election Commission to countries who have severe problems with fair elections it would be a godsend. Because if any country needed something like this, then Thailand would come at (or near) the top of the list.

Your post deserved to be reposted because you have stated what came to my mind when I read this news article.

[rametindallas]

Can someone please explain to me why the election commission has any authority whatsoever over the rice pledging scheme?

It doesn't. However, since an election has been called if the government wants to raise cash (or do anything that would impact the next government) it must get the approval of the electoral commission.

Basically, the government are not allowed to make 'extra-budgetary' moves while parliament is dissolved. Because they are normally subject to parliamentary procedure.

However, this type of request would normally be expected to be rejected unless the Election Commission is corrupted by outside influences. Mainly because it would almost certainly be seen as an exercise to gain votes with public funds.

This and a few other incidents over the past week or so has basically drawn a line under the fact that this Election Commission has been seriously tainted by Thaksin and the PTP which everyone knows anyway.

Another reminder that Suthep and the protesters are 100% correct about reform before elections and that this government and the entire Thaksin regime must go before there is an election they will support or accept.

If only the UN had a department where it can loan out an non-corruptible Election Commission to countries who have severe problems with fair elections it would be a godsend. Because if any country needed something like this, then Thailand would come at (or near) the top of the list.

Nibbles, previously, before the dissolution when they thought the Amnesty Bill was going through and they expected to be in power for many years, the now acting government was going to do a bond issue. However, they pulled that bond issue back as investors wanted a higher return (it was more expensive than they thought).

Now, as you state, the cost to the Country is secondary to getting the farmers paid as an unexpected election is upcoming.

I really don't have a problem with the EC's approval as they are caught in the middle. If they say no and the farmers don't get paid, they are open to lawsuits. Saying yes, it shifts the added cost of the rice scheme directly where it belongs (the PT).

If they say no and the farmers don't get paid, they are open to lawsuits.

Please inform me how the EC would be open to lawsuits for not breaking the law which strictly forbids allowing a caretaker government to take on new loans.

Saying yes, it shifts the added cost of the rice scheme directly where it belongs (the PT).

No, it doesn't. It shifts the costs to the middle class who are the only people who pay income taxes. When has the PT party paid for anything, excepting bribes?

What this move by the EC does is open the EC up for dissolution on grounds of corruption, overstepping their authority, malfeasance for not enforcing existing laws that clearly state that a caretaker government may not take on any new government laws. There are threads on this forum citing the real possibility, that if a new government in not installed in a timely manner, the government will not even be able to pay government workers.http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/691215-thai-budget-woes-if-govt-delayed/ .

I would call you a bullshit artist but I won't because you are artless.

[chiang mai]

Is this the path the Thai economy is heading on?

budget deficit --> increase in government debt --> increase in interest rates --> inflation

Apologies that I hit the Like Key unintentionally, I didn't mean to support/agree your post.

Increased interest rates are not a precursor to increased inflation, they are normally a response to it.

[Old Man River]

RametinDallas:

Part of the bond issue was already approved, but delayed due to the cost. Perhaps the EC will be sued for malfeasance for allowing the rest. Let's see how it plays out.

Ultimately, I agree that the taxpayers will pay for the rice mess, but it won't be only the middle class just because they pay the majority of the income taxes. Most of the taxes collected come in the form of VAT, not income taxes. BTW, I also pay Thai income taxes.

I have never supported the PT. I am not sure how you got that opinion.

[rametindallas]

RametinDallas:

Part of the bond issue was already approved, but delayed due to the cost. Perhaps the EC will be sued for malfeasance for allowing the rest. Let's see how it plays out.

Ultimately, I agree that the taxpayers will pay for the rice mess, but it won't be only the middle class just because they pay the majority of the income taxes. Most of the taxes collected come in the form of VAT, not income taxes. BTW, I also pay Thai income taxes.

I have never supported the PT. I am not sure how you got that opinion.

I have never supported the PT. I am not sure how you got that opinion.

I looked at my post three times and, for the life of me, can't see where I even hinted you were a supporter of PT party.

Every Baht spent/borrowed on the Rice Scheme is being used to line the pockets of Thaksin insiders, build a 'war chest' for the PT party, corrupt the voting process, and is one less Baht that can be spent on education or any program that benefits more than one special interest group. The government should have spent the money they are losing getting farmers to grow crops other than rice (of which there is a World glut) but has, instead, got the farmers deeper into rice farming including planting rice on unsuitable land to take advantage of the Scheme. The Rice Scheme makes no sense economically or agriculturally; it only makes sense politically or corruption-wise. Anyone defending the Rice Scheme is highly suspect of being a government stooge. I apologize for being harsh with you but Thailand was, for thirty years, the World leader in rice exports until this scheme came along and now it's number three. The poor people of Isaan will bear the ultimate burden, having gone into debt to increase their yields and having their present and future markets (other than the government which can't afford the program anyway) destroyed beyond redemption. Barring another 'Scheme', this will destroy the bulk of the economy in rice growing areas.

[rubl]

"The amount of borrowing would be controlled under the pledging-project budget set at Bt410 billion."

So, a (non-)revolving fund of 500 billion, 200 billion extra and now a 410 billion budget? Somehow the reporting on this hasn't improved now that we only have a caretaking government

[Old Man River]

RametinDallas:

Part of the bond issue was already approved, but delayed due to the cost. Perhaps the EC will be sued for malfeasance for allowing the rest. Let's see how it plays out.

Ultimately, I agree that the taxpayers will pay for the rice mess, but it won't be only the middle class just because they pay the majority of the income taxes. Most of the taxes collected come in the form of VAT, not income taxes. BTW, I also pay Thai income taxes.

I have never supported the PT. I am not sure how you got that opinion.

I have never supported the PT. I am not sure how you got that opinion.

I looked at my post three times and, for the life of me, can't see where I even hinted you were a supporter of PT party.

Every Baht spent/borrowed on the Rice Scheme is being used to line the pockets of Thaksin insiders, build a 'war chest' for the PT party, corrupt the voting process, and is one less Baht that can be spent on education or any program that benefits more than one special interest group. The government should have spent the money they are losing getting farmers to grow crops other than rice (of which there is a World glut) but has, instead, got the farmers deeper into rice farming including planting rice on unsuitable land to take advantage of the Scheme. The Rice Scheme makes no sense economically or agriculturally; it only makes sense politically or corruption-wise. Anyone defending the Rice Scheme is highly suspect of being a government stooge. I apologize for being harsh with you but Thailand was, for thirty years, the World leader in rice exports until this scheme came along and now it's number three. The poor people of Isaan will bear the ultimate burden, having gone into debt to increase their yields and having their present and future markets (other than the government which can't afford the program anyway) destroyed beyond redemption. Barring another 'Scheme', this will destroy the bulk of the economy in rice growing areas.

Now we do agree, although if the farmers ever do get paid, it will be almost every baht.

In addition to the several points you made (and thanks for the info - I am a city boy), the rice has been booked by the PT at cost. Since they paid way above market, they are overstating their asset value. Of course, some of it has gone bad, but how much is not being disclosed. When it gets sold, if ever, their cost will be way above market so the losses will be huge. It is an unbelievable mess and I wonder which governments will step up to the plate to make the THB 2 trillion loan.

[smedly]

"The amount of borrowing would be controlled under the pledging-project budget set at Bt410 billion."

So, a (non-)revolving fund of 500 billion, 200 billion extra and now a 410 billion budget? Somehow the reporting on this hasn't improved now that we only have a caretaking government

the EC are operating on the figures they have been given which is accompanied by a white rabbit pulled from a ..................brown tinted circle

how about the EC forcing an audit before they go any further which would push elections out many months and in the meantime the NACC investigation into the EC would be well underway

What a cluster f...... this country really is

Does it need reform ?

I'm not going to answer that - but what I am 100% sure about - nobody that breaths air in Thailand right now has the ability or more importantly the will to change it.......give it to me and I will make the changes required - write them into law and Thailand will get a breath of fresh air that will secure stability for ever

Oh if only

The classroom of Thai junior school is back in session - and it's at Government House - they keep leaving everyday with pockets stuffed

You know - the great train robbery was up there with some of the greatest thefts in history - I'd love to see an independent accounting agency get right in there and go through this governments books - oh I wish I wish I wish

One thing that really bothers me, the rice farmers who I would regard as honourable folk ......yes I did say that and mean it.......... must realise themselves that this whole rice thing is either going to destroy Thailand and hurt all of the people or that it must change - surely they are not that stupid

Anyway it was an election clanger that the EC approved that payment as now it will go to court and create another mess - a bond sale cannot take place .....at what price, Feb 2 Election will never happen