Thailand deserves better democracy

[brit1984]

Yin Luck is a great PM her party has been elected by the people. Ahbasit is a murderer as is the secret elite that own the generals and judiciary. Power is what this is about, power the Reds want democracy the Yellows the status quo of elitism, corruption, murder of protest, bullying on the streets, poverty in the country side, poor education, retarded thinking. Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yingluck is a great PM?? That is the most hilarious thing I have heard in years!!! She was not elected by the people - she was impositioned by her criminal murderer brother (he actually ordered the murder of over 2,500 people (a majority innocent civilians) in his catastrophic 'get drugs off the streets' massacre). Then there's Tak Bai where he again, made the serious error (admitted by him) of killing approximately the equivalent number of muslims as got themselves killed in unwittingly serving him in his amnesty mission in 2010.

Have you read the English version of 'The Simple Truth' - Abhisit is NO MURDERER!! Again, the murderer in question is Thaksin.

Suthep is not after power at all - he wants good governance with the flawed electoral system removed and replaced with a fair and democratic one that serves the people and nation. He would even accept a PTP government that ruled in a fit and proper way instead of ignoring democracy and parliamentary practices for it's own means and to enrich themselves at the people's expense.

I thnk that you can include yourself in being inflicted with the last three things you mention (assumes you live in the countryside).

for what reason were these reforms that you think suthep wants not enacted during the opposition's last term in office (i.e. after the last coup)...?

for what reason does suthep think this coup will not end (in the same way as the last) with chaos and death on the streets of bangkok when the people fight for a return to democracy...?

for what reason doesn't suthep concentrate on political campaigning to bridge the (not so big) required swing in vote to take power democratically...?

why should anyone trust anything suthep says given his background / history and his lack of any kind of mandate to represent the people of thailand...?

[52midnight]

J. R. R. Tolkien in a letter to son Christopher in 1944:

"Mr Eden in the house the other day [sc. Mr Anthony Eden speaking in the House of Commons] expressed pain at the occurrences in Greece 'the home of democracy'. Is he ignorant, or insincere? demokratia was not in Greek a word of approval but was nearly equivalent to 'mob-rule'; and he neglected to note that Greek Philosophers - and far more is Greece the home of philosophy - did not approve of it. And the great Greek states, esp. Athens at the time of its high art and power, were rather Dictatorships, if they were not military monarchies like Sparta!"

Most of the claims made for democracy are nonsense.

[Mackie]

i agree thailand needs a "strong" ruler/leader but i think there is a lot of confusion about what that means...

a "strong" leader is brave enough to break free from the comfort of telling their own supporters what they want to hear about the evils of the other side

a "strong" leader is willing to admit their own mistakes and shortcomings, and make the tough decisions to fix the problems of their own party

a "strong" leader embraces democracy and puts in the hard work and effort required to win votes through honest and positive campaigning

a "strong" leader takes and holds power in a way that even those who voted for the opposition still accept the result

a "strong" leader puts the people of thailand (and their right to peace and political stability) before one's own ego and hunger for power

a "strong" leader does not force their way to power through force regardless of the destruction and death on the way

Are you referring to the man from Dubai by any chance? He absolutely fits the description. Failed on every single point multiple times.

How can anyone be on his side? Come on, Thaksin is a despicable creature who should be condemned to life imprisonment for what he did to Thailand and Thais.

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/20601-more-dishonesty-about-thailands-upheaval-from-the-international-new-york-times

[Thai at Heart]

The thais got democracy with thainess thrown on in good measure. Its not democracy as long as the legal system isn't equal and pooyais can hide behind defamation.

Reform these two things and in time the rest will take care of itself.

[Yunla]

J. R. R. Tolkien in a letter to son Christopher in 1944:

"Mr Eden in the house the other day [sc. Mr Anthony Eden speaking in the House of Commons] expressed pain at the occurrences in Greece 'the home of democracy'. Is he ignorant, or insincere? demokratia was not in Greek a word of approval but was nearly equivalent to 'mob-rule'; and he neglected to note that Greek Philosophers - and far more is Greece the home of philosophy - did not approve of it. And the great Greek states, esp. Athens at the time of its high art and power, were rather Dictatorships, if they were not military monarchies like Sparta!"

Most of the claims made for democracy are nonsense.

Actually, although democracy means essentially rule by the people, this is a misunderstanding of how it was applied in the worlds first Democracy, Athenian Democracy, where huge numbers of people were born as slaves for life, and would never be citizens or have the right to vote.

Oligarchs ruled Greece and most of the famous philosophers were pioneers of what we today would see as a very right-wing oligarchy.

However and this is very important. Democracy originally meant "a citizen's duty to attend public Debates" which translated as "rule by the people." Debate was seen as a citizen's duty, above all else. To not engage in Debate, made you an "idiot", a Greek word for somebody who does not engage in the public sphere - especially Debate.

Why this is relevant is that most people don't understand this today, that Democracy actually means Debate, to discuss issues, to iron out differences by expressing opinions and defending those opinions robustly in the arena of open unscripted Debate. The reason Thailand fails as a Democracy is because it has almost zero platforms for debate, even Parliament is lacking in a suitably functional system, and public debates are non-existent.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Yunla

[brit1984]

i agree thailand needs a "strong" ruler/leader but i think there is a lot of confusion about what that means...

a "strong" leader is brave enough to break free from the comfort of telling their own supporters what they want to hear about the evils of the other side

a "strong" leader is willing to admit their own mistakes and shortcomings, and make the tough decisions to fix the problems of their own party

a "strong" leader embraces democracy and puts in the hard work and effort required to win votes through honest and positive campaigning

a "strong" leader takes and holds power in a way that even those who voted for the opposition still accept the result

a "strong" leader puts the people of thailand (and their right to peace and political stability) before one's own ego and hunger for power

a "strong" leader does not force their way to power through force regardless of the destruction and death on the way

Are you referring to the man from Dubai by any chance? He absolutely fits the description. Failed on every single point multiple times.

How can anyone be on his side? Come on, Thaksin is a despicable creature who should be condemned to life imprisonment for what he did to Thailand and Thais.

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/20601-more-dishonesty-about-thailands-upheaval-from-the-international-new-york-times

what the hell are you talking about?... nobody mentioned thaksin... stop fantasizing about him

[digibum]

I take issue with the word "deserves" in the headline. Thailand does NOT deserve it; Thailand must EARN it!

You don't deserve something like Democracy by virtue of having nice weather and good food. You earn it by making the necessary SACRIFICES and societal changes that Democracy requires.

Thailand is a country that has a bad case of wanting its cake and eating it too. They want tourism, just without the tourists. They want foreign investment, just without foreigners owning anything. They want democracy, just without sacrificing any of the aspects of the feudal system they currently enjoy. Currently both sides are basically fighting over which form of dictatorship they would prefer to live under.

Until Thais actually demand a better form of government, they deserve exactly what they get.

[mr ding dong]

Democracy can never work with widespread corruption

[Ulic]

A total BS one sided article. Both sides are equally corrupt, both sides buy votes. If Suthep (Captain Corrupt) wants to

gain legitimacy he must admit that his party has corruption issues as well and come up with a plan to end that corruption.

Then he can move forward and come up with a plan to try and end corruption in Thailand. Until then it is just

the pot calling the kettle black. I say jail Suthep,and Yingluck together, confiscate there ill gotten wealth and move

forward with a plan to end corruption in Thai politics and the police force.

[fasteddie]

The anti-government protesters want better democracy, not less democracy

Thats why they are blockading registration and voting stations, refusing to take part in elections, and saying that farmers are too uneducated to know who is the correct person to vote for.

Nobody is blocking registrations now, and nobody is saying that the farmers are too uneducated to know who to vote for.... they are saying that the farmers are too uneducated to 'CARE' who they vote for. Or are you attempting to tell us that the farmers are extremely sophisticated people who only care about what is good for the country as a whole?

On a separate note...

'Winning an election is just the start of the democratic process. How elected representatives then use their position determines their legitimacy to rule. If they abuse their power through corrupt practices to enrich themselves or to advance the narrow interests of their financiers, then they lose legitimacy.'

Just for those who support Thaksin and constantly harp on about how YL and PTP were democratically elected, and how Suthep and the protesters are being 'undemocratic' in protesting against its legitimacy. I won't even mention the populist policies used to grab votes at the expense of other (just as needy) infrastructural projects.

over 500 billion lost that could have been spent on other things to improve Thailand, and it isn't coming back.

How can anyone support that?

'Winning an election is just the start of the democratic process. How elected representatives then use their position determines their legitimacy to rule. If they abuse their power through corrupt practices to enrich themselves or to advance the narrow interests of their financiers, then they lose legitimacy.'

Oh please! going by that criteria would disqualify all democratic governments worldwide.

[brit1984]

Democracy can never work with widespread corruption

and dictatorship can never work with / without widespread corruption

what's your point?... is anyone saying thailand needs more corruption?

[citizen33]

The OP has spent more time as an ASEAN Secretariat administrator than an academic. After advocated a 'step by step', as opposed to a big bang, approach to the coordination of human rights policies in ASEAN, he now recommends an incremental approach to building Thai democracy. Getting into bed with those who want to disenfranchise a large part of the Thai electorate might go down well at Chula, but won't win as many friends at ISEAS.

[brit1984]

Until Thais actually demand a better form of government, they deserve exactly what they get.

i think that is very unfair - from whom (and how) can they "demand a better form of government"?...

who would lead such a movement?... who would fund it?... who would protect them from the police / army?...

most thais would happily support a sensible, positive, non-divisive, non-corrupt political leader / party

but until such a person / entity presents itself, there isn't much they can practically do

[Thaddeus]

i agree thailand needs a "strong" ruler/leader but i think there is a lot of confusion about what that means...

a "strong" leader is brave enough to break free from the comfort of telling their own supporters what they want to hear about the evils of the other side

a "strong" leader is willing to admit their own mistakes and shortcomings, and make the tough decisions to fix the problems of their own party

a "strong" leader embraces democracy and puts in the hard work and effort required to win votes through honest and positive campaigning

a "strong" leader takes and holds power in a way that even those who voted for the opposition still accept the result

a "strong" leader puts the people of thailand (and their right to peace and political stability) before one's own ego and hunger for power

a "strong" leader does not force their way to power through force regardless of the destruction and death on the way

Are you referring to the man from Dubai by any chance? He absolutely fits the description. Failed on every single point multiple times.

How can anyone be on his side? Come on, Thaksin is a despicable creature who should be condemned to life imprisonment for what he did to Thailand and Thais.

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/20601-more-dishonesty-about-thailands-upheaval-from-the-international-new-york-times

what the hell are you talking about?... nobody mentioned thaksin... stop fantasizing about him

Unfortunately his shadow is cast all over the entire spectrum of Thai politics, it is rather difficult to avoid mentioning him, he could solve this problem himself quite easily, but his inflated ego will not allow him to do that.

Many years ago he said that he was done with politics, so why is he still involved?

His ego, that is all that fuels PTP, and his rampant need for power, it matters not one jot to him who dies or suffers in his quest.

[digibum]

Until Thais actually demand a better form of government, they deserve exactly what they get.

i think that is very unfair - from whom (and how) can they "demand a better form of government"?...

who would lead such a movement?... who would fund it?... who would protect them from the police / army?...

most thais would happily support a sensible, positive, non-divisive, non-corrupt political leader / party

but until such a person / entity presents itself, there isn't much they can practically do

It's like everything else, they simply have to demand it like people do in most other countries. Remember the Arab Spring?

I've had this conversation many times with Thai friends and they think I'm crazy but part of the disconnect is that they don't seem to believe they have the right to speak out. For instance, I use examples like Thailand's reputation for sex tourism and how so many Thais are offended by it. If Thais wanted that shut down they could do it very easily. Have a thousand women activists stand outside Nana and Cowboy and take photos of guys going in and out and post them on the internet. The place would be a ghost town in a few days. Sure, the cops might come and crack some skulls the first night and maybe the second night but if the people keep coming and they're not scared of what happens to them, sooner or later they'll win.

Or if Thais are worried about their reputation as a land of scams, why not speak out when they see tourists getting fleeced? Why do they let fake monks walk around when they know they're not real monks? Why do they not say anything when they see some guy pulling the gem scam in front of the Grand Palace? Why aren't their groups of concerned Thais surrounding the Grand Palace warning tourists? If they're so concerned about their image, why do they do nothing to defend it except to scold you and tell you to leave if you don't like it?

I know, these sound like overly simplistic solutions but the fact that almost nobody stands up and says "this is wrong!" is the problem in Thailand. It's the whole mindset that you put up with it because there's nothing you can do about it. Until Thais quit being so scared of speaking up and demanding better from their government, their police, and even their fellow citizens, they'll get exactly what they deserve.

Nobody is going to hand that to them as long as their too passive to demand it. Why would they?

This isn't about someone leading a movement (leaders may come later) but a grassroots call to people to do the right thing. Ghandi didn't wait for a leader to lead him. Martin Luther King didn't wait for a leader to lead him. All it takes is a single person to rise up and demand something better. If the Thai people want and deserve a better government they'll follow that person. But as long as everyone is willing to sit around and wait for a well-financed leader who is positive, non-divisive, etc, etc, they'll continue to get thugs and corruption.

Like I said, Thailand is a country that wants its cake and to eat it too. They say they want democracy but they're not willing to fight for it or stand up for it.

[Time Traveller]

I hear that the North Korean model of democracy works quite well. There's no protesting there.

[Time Traveller]

/

Edited December 25, 2013 by Time Traveller

[PaullyW]

Until Thais actually demand a better form of government, they deserve exactly what they get.

i think that is very unfair - from whom (and how) can they "demand a better form of government"?...

who would lead such a movement?... who would fund it?... who would protect them from the police / army?...

most thais would happily support a sensible, positive, non-divisive, non-corrupt political leader / party

but until such a person / entity presents itself, there isn't much they can practically do

Sorry but that's just not true. Thais may have to bleed their way to a better country. Perhaps it might not happen for them without great sacrifice.

Perhaps it will take hundreds or thousands or more dieing in the streets having been shot down by the military or whomever before things change.

Revolution.

Nobody said change was as easy as making som tam.

[52midnight]

When - if ever - the oriental peoples stop aping the mistakes and perverted ideals of the (mainly Abrahamic) West, and turn instead to a re-evaluation of their traditional and superior spiritual inheritance, they will not only free themselves from Western exploitation, but will find a new and better path to a new and unexpected future.

A true traditional king is the social leader and spiritual mentor of his people. The Thais have a monarch who not only fulfills this role, but exemplifies in his own character the traits of the hero of the Ramayana. In this they are the most fortunate of peoples. However, whereas a traditional king could hope to rule ten thousand people, perhaps even a hundred thousand in a territory extending a few days ride from his throne in every direction, there is no guarantee that this could scale to millions, or tens of millions, even less to hundreds; nor to vast territories inhabited by conflicting cultures.

Neither politics nor economics can solve our present social dilemmas. The only solution lies in improving the personal character of the men and women who comprise them. Modern democracy with its consumer culture and adulation of violence, wealth, and celebrity have exactly the opposite effect. Yunla's erudite post highlights the impossibility of realizing the democratic ideal in societies of millions: the active contribution to debate by each citizen is impossible. New solutions are essential, but since these would necessarily dis-empower the present ruling elite, they would be met with brutal repression were ever they proposed.

[PaullyW]

J. R. R. Tolkien in a letter to son Christopher in 1944:

"Mr Eden in the house the other day [sc. Mr Anthony Eden speaking in the House of Commons] expressed pain at the occurrences in Greece 'the home of democracy'. Is he ignorant, or insincere? demokratia was not in Greek a word of approval but was nearly equivalent to 'mob-rule'; and he neglected to note that Greek Philosophers - and far more is Greece the home of philosophy - did not approve of it. And the great Greek states, esp. Athens at the time of its high art and power, were rather Dictatorships, if they were not military monarchies like Sparta!"

Most of the claims made for democracy are nonsense.

Actually, although democracy means essentially rule by the people, this is a misunderstanding of how it was applied in the worlds first Democracy, Athenian Democracy, where huge numbers of people were born as slaves for life, and would never be citizens or have the right to vote.

Oligarchs ruled Greece and most of the famous philosophers were pioneers of what we today would see as a very right-wing oligarchy.

However and this is very important. Democracy originally meant "a citizen's duty to attend public Debates" which translated as "rule by the people." Debate was seen as a citizen's duty, above all else. To not engage in Debate, made you an "idiot", a Greek word for somebody who does not engage in the public sphere - especially Debate.

Why this is relevant is that most people don't understand this today, that Democracy actually means Debate, to discuss issues, to iron out differences by expressing opinions and defending those opinions robustly in the arena of open unscripted Debate. The reason Thailand fails as a Democracy is because it has almost zero platforms for debate, even Parliament is lacking in a suitably functional system, and public debates are non-existent.

How can a people with such a strong aversion to conflict and confrontation and Face losing ever participate publicly in something as confrontational as a debate?

[thinkingofhow]

Interesting.....why? The spirit of free thought is beat out of children in rural schools by teachers with stocks. It starts in kindergarten and is rife throughout the early education system in rural Thailand. Rout learning as you would memorize a poem for exact repetition is how the learning system works. What is memorized is ficticous history of some elite family. Reality is usurped and replaced with fantasy and Thais live in this fantasy, Freud knew it well as brain washing. It reveals itself in the increadulous daily comings and goings of Thais. As a foreigner I am constantly in disbelief of the reality of Thais, it is understandable only when the depth of the treachery, the mendasity, the deceit by the silent one is revieled. Surely when the streets are bloodied, when goons are not restrained by law, the silent ones must muse and laugh at the muted silenced mass they have masterfully usurped of power and freedom of expression, justice and education.

It a world of globalization, internet and freedom of the press, only countries with leaders like, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Hitler are comparisons of the baseness and desparation for power.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[brit1984]

Interesting.....why? The spirit of free thought is beat out of children in rural schools by teachers with stocks. It starts in kindergarten and is rife throughout the early education system in rural Thailand. Rout learning as you would memorize a poem for exact repetition is how the learning system works. What is memorized is ficticous history of some elite family. Reality is usurped and replaced with fantasy and Thais live in this fantasy, Freud knew it well as brain washing. It reveals itself in the increadulous daily comings and goings of Thais. As a foreigner I am constantly in disbelief of the reality of Thais, it is understandable only when the depth of the treachery, the mendasity, the deceit by the silent one is revieled. Surely when the streets are bloodied, when goons are not restrained by law, the silent ones must muse and laugh at the muted silenced mass they have masterfully usurped of power and freedom of expression, justice and education. It a world of globalization, internet and freedom of the press, only countries with leaders like, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Hitler are comparisons of the baseness and desparation for power. Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

rote learning dominates education in most asian countries... what's your point?...

the education system is thailand may well be weak but it does not have a politically focused syllabus, or any other hidden brain washing agenda

by making comparisons between thailand today and the khmer rouge regime / uganda under amin / nazi germany suggests some serious shortcoming in your education... have you ever been to thailand?

[binjalin]

Interesting.....why? The spirit of free thought is beat out of children in rural schools by teachers with stocks. It starts in kindergarten and is rife throughout the early education system in rural Thailand. Rout learning as you would memorize a poem for exact repetition is how the learning system works. What is memorized is ficticous history of some elite family. Reality is usurped and replaced with fantasy and Thais live in this fantasy, Freud knew it well as brain washing. It reveals itself in the increadulous daily comings and goings of Thais. As a foreigner I am constantly in disbelief of the reality of Thais, it is understandable only when the depth of the treachery, the mendasity, the deceit by the silent one is revieled. Surely when the streets are bloodied, when goons are not restrained by law, the silent ones must muse and laugh at the muted silenced mass they have masterfully usurped of power and freedom of expression, justice and education. It a world of globalization, internet and freedom of the press, only countries with leaders like, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Hitler are comparisons of the baseness and desparation for power. Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

rote learning dominates education in most asian countries... what's your point?...

the education system is thailand may well be weak but it does not have a politically focused syllabus, or any other hidden brain washing agenda

by making comparisons between thailand today and the khmer rouge regime / uganda under amin / nazi germany suggests some serious shortcoming in your education... have you ever been to thailand?

that is absolutely not true (I make no comparisons to the regimes you list) but Thailand's education system is heavily biased

no mention of WW2, japan's occupation and HEAVILY biased towards Nationalism and "things we cannot discuss here" so your comment is not true : "or any other hidden brain washing agenda"

[retsdon]

Jathuporn, Suthep, Chalerm,, Newin, the Etonian Abhisit - they're all the same and not one of them would smell election in a more advanced democracy. In fact, the lot of them would be behind bars already. De Toqueville was pretty much spot on when he observed that in a democracy people get the government they deserve. As long as Thais in general are accepting of corruption and thuggery amongst their political leaders, there's nothing going to change.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Jathuporn, Suthep, Chalerm,, Newin, the Etonian Abhisit - they're all the same and not one of them would smell election in a more advanced democracy. In fact, the lot of them would be behind bars already. De Toqueville was pretty much spot on when he observed that in a democracy people get the government they deserve. As long as Thais in general are accepting of corruption and thuggery amongst their political leaders, there's nothing going to change.

Can't answer for the rest of them - but please show me an example of where Abhisit can be accused of corruption.

He (with Korn) are two of the most honest politicians in Thailand with unblemished records so I think that you should retract his name from this list and insert Yingluck and 99% of the PTP MP's (there may be 1 or 2 there for the interests of the people) but that is a big may be and it might be closer to 100%!!.

[brit1984]

Interesting.....why? The spirit of free thought is beat out of children in rural schools by teachers with stocks. It starts in kindergarten and is rife throughout the early education system in rural Thailand. Rout learning as you would memorize a poem for exact repetition is how the learning system works. What is memorized is ficticous history of some elite family. Reality is usurped and replaced with fantasy and Thais live in this fantasy, Freud knew it well as brain washing. It reveals itself in the increadulous daily comings and goings of Thais. As a foreigner I am constantly in disbelief of the reality of Thais, it is understandable only when the depth of the treachery, the mendasity, the deceit by the silent one is revieled. Surely when the streets are bloodied, when goons are not restrained by law, the silent ones must muse and laugh at the muted silenced mass they have masterfully usurped of power and freedom of expression, justice and education. It a world of globalization, internet and freedom of the press, only countries with leaders like, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Hitler are comparisons of the baseness and desparation for power. Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

rote learning dominates education in most asian countries... what's your point?...

the education system is thailand may well be weak but it does not have a politically focused syllabus, or any other hidden brain washing agenda

by making comparisons between thailand today and the khmer rouge regime / uganda under amin / nazi germany suggests some serious shortcoming in your education... have you ever been to thailand?

that is absolutely not true (I make no comparisons to the regimes you list) but Thailand's education system is heavily biased

no mention of WW2, japan's occupation and HEAVILY biased towards Nationalism and "things we cannot discuss here" so your comment is not true : "or any other hidden brain washing agenda"

if you did not make the comparisons to those terrible regimes someone with access to your thai visa account did

a nationalistic bias is a characteristic of education in many countries... what's your point?

is there some kind of conclusion you are trying to make from your jumbled rhetoric?...

[brit1984]

Jathuporn, Suthep, Chalerm,, Newin, the Etonian Abhisit - they're all the same and not one of them would smell election in a more advanced democracy. In fact, the lot of them would be behind bars already. De Toqueville was pretty much spot on when he observed that in a democracy people get the government they deserve. As long as Thais in general are accepting of corruption and thuggery amongst their political leaders, there's nothing going to change.

Can't answer for the rest of them - but please show me an example of where Abhisit can be accused of corruption.

He (with Korn) are two of the most honest politicians in Thailand with unblemished records so I think that you should retract his name from this list and insert Yingluck and 99% of the PTP MP's (there may be 1 or 2 there for the interests of the people) but that is a big may be and it might be closer to 100%!!.

not sure how yingluck is corrupt... i thought she was (literally) just a pretty face

i also doubt your 99% estimate would change if you widened the scope to include non-PTP MPs

i do agree though about abhisit and korn... hope they stand up soon to fix the "democrats"

[SICHONSTEVE]

Jathuporn, Suthep, Chalerm,, Newin, the Etonian Abhisit - they're all the same and not one of them would smell election in a more advanced democracy. In fact, the lot of them would be behind bars already. De Toqueville was pretty much spot on when he observed that in a democracy people get the government they deserve. As long as Thais in general are accepting of corruption and thuggery amongst their political leaders, there's nothing going to change.

Can't answer for the rest of them - but please show me an example of where Abhisit can be accused of corruption.

He (with Korn) are two of the most honest politicians in Thailand with unblemished records so I think that you should retract his name from this list and insert Yingluck and 99% of the PTP MP's (there may be 1 or 2 there for the interests of the people) but that is a big may be and it might be closer to 100%!!.

not sure how yingluck is corrupt... i thought she was (literally) just a pretty face

i also doubt your 99% estimate would change if you widened the scope to include non-PTP MPs

i do agree though about abhisit and korn... hope they stand up soon to fix the "democrats"

The whole of the Shinawatra family clan is corrupt and she is a Shinawatra.

she is not a pretty face at all, I think that they should change their opticians or raise their standards. All I see is a pathetic, pouting ignoramous with false tears flowing when someone citicises her for being useless.

[Spare]

One man one vote is not good enough. Thailand deserves better.

[brit1984]

Jathuporn, Suthep, Chalerm,, Newin, the Etonian Abhisit - they're all the same and not one of them would smell election in a more advanced democracy. In fact, the lot of them would be behind bars already. De Toqueville was pretty much spot on when he observed that in a democracy people get the government they deserve. As long as Thais in general are accepting of corruption and thuggery amongst their political leaders, there's nothing going to change.

Can't answer for the rest of them - but please show me an example of where Abhisit can be accused of corruption.

He (with Korn) are two of the most honest politicians in Thailand with unblemished records so I think that you should retract his name from this list and insert Yingluck and 99% of the PTP MP's (there may be 1 or 2 there for the interests of the people) but that is a big may be and it might be closer to 100%!!.

not sure how yingluck is corrupt... i thought she was (literally) just a pretty face

i also doubt your 99% estimate would change if you widened the scope to include non-PTP MPs

i do agree though about abhisit and korn... hope they stand up soon to fix the "democrats"

The whole of the Shinawatra family clan is corrupt and she is a Shinawatra.

she is not a pretty face at all, I think that they should change their opticians or raise their standards. All I see is a pathetic, pouting ignoramous with false tears flowing when someone citicises her for being useless.

does that include their children? for example, if i was to impregnate yingluck....