Staffing Problems Connected To Sanook Culture?

[drewtown]

I have an Indian restaurant in CM. Waitresses are paid a fair salary plus tips but start work and leave without staying any reasonable amount of time. I've had to call a few when they didn't show up only to find out they are no longer working for me. I treat any staff member with respect and expect them to perform their job in return. And I have read the book "Working with the Thais"- might as well be called working with the Martians.

Any other employers out there with similar woes (secretary, staff)?

[p1p]

I will be shot down for this post, but here goes anyway.

I have had many, many problems over the years and solved them when I instituted a policy of NEVER employing a Chiang Mai native. In my personal experience, staff from elsewhere are many times more hard working, loyal, honest and better in every way.

My current staff come from Esarn, Bangkok, Hot, Chiang Rai and Uttaradit. They have all been with me for several years and none has ever caused a problem

[Ulysses G.]

My staff are the best thing about my business and they are ALL Chiang Mai natives.

I got a few good ones in the beginning and don't hire anyone new unless the staff know them and approve. They know that we have a good workplace and don't want any rotten apples to spoil it.

By the way, we hardly ever hire boys and they are the only bad employees that I have ever had!

[tigerbeer]

high staff turnover is part and parcel of doing business in chiangmai. accept it or find employees from other provinces.

[drewtown]

high staff turnover is part and parcel of doing business in chiangmai. accept it or find employees from other provinces.

tigerbeer, do you have a bar in CM?

[Ajarn]

In my opinion, high turnover among waitresses is extremely normal here, as it is in most places, it seems. Maybe by hiring from out of province (and without a local support system) you are more likely to keep your staff longer... Of course, with restaurant wages often around 3,000 a month, It doesn't seem like you can expect much, either.

[p1p]

Of course, with restaurant wages often around 3,000 a month, It doesn't seem like you can expect much, either.

Must say - the only people who have ever earned as little as 3K per month with me have been part timers

[Ulysses G.]

I am paying WAY over that too. Might be part of the reason that I've had such good luck.

[chuchok]

I am paying WAY over that too. Might be part of the reason that I've had such good luck.

they are also not knockouts UG, otherwise we all know what you would be doing..

[Ulysses G.]

I am paying WAY over that too. Might be part of the reason that I've had such good luck.

they are also not knockouts UG, otherwise we all know what you would be doing..

You are entirely correct.

I don't want any knockouts!

[drewtown]

Ajarn, I pay over the rate you mention. Waitresses get one day off each week. How did you get this figure?

In my opinion, high turnover among waitresses is extremely normal here, as it is in most places, it seems. Maybe by hiring from out of province (and without a local support system) you are more likely to keep your staff longer... Of course, with restaurant wages often around 3,000 a month, It doesn't seem like you can expect much, either.

[Ajarn]

Ajarn, I pay over the rate you mention. Waitresses get one day off each week. How did you get this figure?

In my opinion, high turnover among waitresses is extremely normal here, as it is in most places, it seems. Maybe by hiring from out of province (and without a local support system) you are more likely to keep your staff longer... Of course, with restaurant wages often around 3,000 a month, It doesn't seem like you can expect much, either.

I got that figure from talking to waitresses/ former waitresses/restaurant owners over the years. This figure is about two years old. Farang restaurants may pay more, but not much, in my experience... One farang restaurant, recently deceased, payed 3200 for a fulltime, 60 hour week (12x5) ... Plus tips, which averaged about 100 baht per day.

How much do you pay, and how much do you think is fair?

[p1p]

I am grateful that my initial reply above was received in a reasonable fashion.

Last time I replied in such a manner to a thread on this subject, I was severely flamed and even received some hate PMs and a paticularly nasty email!

I have always believed in looking after my good staff better than they could expect elsewhere - while being quite ruthless in weeding out the lazy, inept or dishonest etc. Most of my staff stay with me for many years. Indeed, before I moved here full time, my restaurants in London had at least five staff members who had been working with and for me for over 25 years, despite receiving many offers to move.

I got that figure from talking to waitresses/ former waitresses/restaurant owners over the years. This figure is about two years old. Farang restaurants may pay more, but not much, in my experience... One farang restaurant, recently deceased, payed 3200 for a fulltime, 60 hour week (12x5) ... Plus tips, which averaged about 100 baht per day.

How much do you pay, and how much do you think is fair?

The statement that the restaurant pays ONLY 3K per month is not entirely correct then, becauuse the staf member can almost double that amount, indeed frequently more than double it when tips are considered.

We had two shifts, from 7am to 3pm and from 3pm to 11pm. The full time waiting staff earned 5,500 plus tips per month for six shifts per week. Overtime was paid at time-and-a-half. Kitchen staff etc. earned substantially more.

Tips varied from 100 to about 500 Baht per (waiting staff) head per shift. Tips were all placed into a common pot and devided, on a weighted system, between all staff members concerned with the running of the restaurant for that particular shift. This even included the prep staff who prepared the food during the previous and following shifts and those who cleaned up afterwards. All contributed to a customer's enjoyment, so all should receive a benefit from the customer's recognition of that.

All staff also received extra benefits from the business.

You should be aware that many restaurants, (especially overseas,) have a policy of charging a "Service Charge", which has the effect of substantially reducing the amount of tips being left by customers. Some pass this on to their staff, however the majority do not, and the proprietors simply pocket the extra income.

I personally believe this practice should be banned unless the staff receive every penny.

[Ulysses G.]

You should be aware that many restaurants, (especially overseas,) have a policy of charging a "Service Charge", which has the effect of substantially reducing the amount of tips being left by customers. Some pass this on to their staff, however the majority do not, and the proprietors simply pocket the extra income.

I personally believe this practice should be banned unless the staff receive every penny.

I agree. Doing this REALLY sucks, because the customer wants to help out the staff - who are usually being paid very little - but they don't want to be ripped off by paying a service charge that goes to some fat cat boss.

These jerks should be keelhauled!

[Ajarn]

The statement that the restaurant pays ONLY 3K per month is not entirely correct then, becauuse the staf member can almost double that amount, indeed frequently more than double it when tips are considered

First, I never said 'ONLY 3K' at any point, and secondly, though I recognize the value of tips, many places here offer very little in the way of tips, or their 'sharing' isn't seen as fair, or it's highly seasonal/inconsistant, etc., etc..

It's a tough life, no matter how you look at it.

[meadish_sweetball]

These jerks should be keelhauled!

Interplanetary goats! Barnacles! Sycophants! Bath-room admirals! Gibbering Ghosts! Vermicelli!

[earlofwindermere]

I have several staff and they have been with me since the beginning. I asked them why they didn't leave like a lot of other businesses do. Their reply was that I was more flexible with the work days. For example, one of my staff is a university student. I allow her days off to study for the exams. Apparently most students end up quitting their jobs at exam time because their bosses won't allow this.

[seeker108]

You should be aware that many restaurants, (especially overseas,) have a policy of charging a "Service Charge", which has the effect of substantially reducing the amount of tips being left by customers. Some pass this on to their staff, however the majority do not, and the proprietors simply pocket the extra income.

I personally believe this practice should be banned unless the staff receive every penny.

Learn something new every day. I always figured the service charge went 100% to the staff and was just a way of ensuring that everyone left at least some minimal tip. Though I never really liked the policy as I felt tipping was your way of showing appreciation of good service. On rare occasions with really bad service I have left nada, but on occasion I have left as much as 50% with excellent service and a very reasonable meal price.

I will carefully investigate this in the future and shun any restaurant that does not give at least 90% to the staff (and they better have a good reason if they are keeping any part of the tip). I guess the exception would be if they are paying very high salaries and in a sense the service charge is helping to cover the extra salary.

Back to the initial topic. I am very interested to see this thread as I suddenly lost 2 secretaries and a maid for various strange reasons. The curious thing was that despite having been very responsible employees and well treated these 3 simply did not show up one day without the curtesy of any notice whatsoever (without knowledge of anyone previously doing this with me). And in each case they knew this would greatly inconvenience me. I think they would almost never do this to a Thai employer who had treated them very well (at least the secretaries). Anyway in interviewing more than 50 applicants by now, in every case, if they were currently employed, they always said that they would need to give at least 2 weeks notice and in one case 2 months notice. This was even in cases where the salary, benefits and work environment were better from me and they seemed to really want the job and knew they would probably lose the chance if they did not jump on it right away.

I have had many strange non-related events lately and I am chalking them all up to some unusual cycle of karma at this time. Even so the abrupt departures were a bit of a shock.

I am greatly heartened by P1P's experience as I have 3 out-of-town applicants coming soon.

Seeker