Protest leader Suthep declares Bangkok seizure after New Year

[aguy30]

But the absolute majority want Yingluck, did'nt you know that, so why should Suthep be able to tell them what they can have, comparitively no one wants him, as opposed to the millions who voted for Yingluck

Your comment gives the impression that Suthep is/will be running for office. Would you like to state where he said that and when? I seem to recall that he intends to retire to Koh Sumui when this is over. Did you watch any reports from the mass rallies in Bangkok last Sunday? Maybe you are thinking all those people are computer generated images, Avatar style. I believe Suthep has followers for his drive to eliminate the Shins, not for him. He can be as "nutter" as he wants as long as he succeeds.

[takkatan in the land]

It can be considered a dictatorship the actual government? I don't know if dictatorship or something quite close.

Do Sinawatra's government must be replaced? ABSOLUTELY YES.

Shall somebody remove a dictator to place another dictator?

I hope that not everybody is insane in Thailand and can they find better way.

I don't know if Suthep is going to reform to guaranty a fair play for the future. But even in case that he will, he will be not able to complain if after couple of years someone do as same he did to acquire his objectives.

In my opinion he has discredited himself long time ago.

But this now is intolerable, inciting to boycott, fight until death.

What mean that he will cover all damages, is he insane?

Does he think that is over the law?

Someone should let him know that not all is right, the end don't justify the method used to obtaining it.

If someone get injured or death, he should be the responsible and face the consequences of his actions.

You want a reform, make campaign and wait for your turn. And please don't insult other democrats calling it yourself.

[andyww]

Could somebody enlighten me who is paying for all the s&@ ? Thousand of thousands of people who don't work, who is paying the slaty? Logistics supply cost Millions of Baht? Who is paying for that? Would be nice to know for what the demonstration are. I spoke with a lot of my friends 99% of the employees went to work? Than who was one the street? If I saw the protesters closely most of them did not look like the Bangkok elite more like dwellers who turn into professional protesters when paid.Only a question as we talk about vote buying practice?

Unfortunately answering that question would be against the rules of this forum

[takkatan in the land]

The guy is a nutter. Why don't the police arrest him. They have the warrant. Somebody please explain

He is opposing a government which was trying to make unlawful changes to the constitution. Article 113 of the criminal code protects him from authoritative violence.

If it was as clear cut as that , how come the arrest warrant was issued in the first place?

An arrest is not inherently violent, they have the power to arrest him, they just cannot use any violence in the process. Don't ask me how they plan to arrest him without violence, if someone had an answer to that he'd be behind bars already.

nonsense law,

are those politicians whose approve that kind of laws whose should be replaced immediately.

I bet that were not the sinawatra's who proposed to legislate this article.

[MJP]

Honestly, I can't believe any of you take any of this seriously. Suthep this . . . Thaksin clan that . . .

They'd all be better off voting for this bloke . . .

[beautifulthailand99]

He's certainly got balls from this video today walking about collecting money for 'the cause' - it would be very easy for some crazed nut to off him if this video is anything to go by.

[Maha Sarakham Marty]

Could somebody enlighten me who is paying for all the s&@ ? Thousand of thousands of people who don't work, who is paying the slaty? Logistics supply cost Millions of Baht? Who is paying for that? Would be nice to know for what the demonstration are. I spoke with a lot of my friends 99% of the employees went to work? Than who was one the street? If I saw the protesters closely most of them did not look like the Bangkok elite more like dwellers who turn into professional protesters when paid.Only a question as we talk about vote buying practice?

Unfortunately answering that question would be against the rules of this forum

Phfft...nonsense.

[brit1984]

After 240 posts of calling each other for idiots, general mudslinging and being as stubborn as the Thais (Face?), isn't about time we came up with our suggestions to a solution ?

Being pigheaded is leading nowhere.

The reds and yellows aren't going to agree on anything in this century. IMO a coup is not a good solution.

So my idea is the Thailand needs a new political party. Not like the small ultranationalist ones, of which the are too many already. But a party with some political heavyweights from both sides of the divide, there are some reasonably clean and smart guys on both sides.

From the yellow side I would nominate Korn Chakivanij (who as the smart guy he is, resigned from the Democrats board when the Suthep nonsense began) and Surin Pitsuwan (former secretary general of Asean). Those two are both educated in the west and are as "clean" as they come in Thailand!

From the red side, honestly I don't know their members of government well enough to suggest any, but sure amongst their members there are some decent and intelligent people.

Sure a majority of average Thais are fed up with the present stalemate, so a new political party with politics for the benefit of the country and all its people, will be their choice?

Maybe I am being naive (I am) but it must be better than calling my fellow posters for idiots?

Your solutions? Thank you!

i agree, the status quo of divisive politics (including suthep's movement) can never achieve lasting stability nor peace

a new party (or modernization of either of the major parties) is the ONLY solution that can lead to lasting stability and peace

obviously they will need to offer a real clean, positive, and fair future for all thais (and rise above the "blame game")

but with clever use of media (especially social media) such a new party could gain popularity (and power) very quickly

after taking power it could also hold power (and therefore achieve stability) because it's mandate to lead would be accepted by all

[williamta20012]

Maybe it's time for the civilising influence of the farang to make itself heard....

Wow,so there's drunk Farangs in Thailand,really?There's no drunk Thais here though is there?Do you know what the G7 is,the 7 largest economies in the World?BTW,Thailand's not a member!

It just amazes me that the whole gambit in Thailand is to put Farangs down to big themselves up,don't Thais understand that the international community sees the whole country,political system and leadership as a complete and utter joke?

About on the level of trained chimpanzees!

do you know what the G7 is???

so if you have a successful business and there is a thieving uncle leeching money...

then thieving uncles from rich families around the world get together and make a club to discuss monopolies on theft

would you be so proud then say oh the TU7 is such a proud group of succesful entrepreneurs

the is no hope in the world until people can stop using goverment made up language

[beautifulthailand99]

Just back from the small Thai temple Wat Buddharam in Wanstead , East London - when my wife remarked that we were just off to Thailand for 2 months one of the wise old owl ladies of the temple said are you off to support Suthep. My wife remarked that she was fed up of Red, Orange and all the diviseness that comes with the various camps why couldn't there be a colour for the middle white for those that want none of the above just to get on peaceably with their business and hard work - was met with applause ! Naieve certainly but I think the Buddha's middle way has probably got the majority vote.

Her brother works for the military down south and is a middling rank and is quite fed up of all the corruption that goes with the territory - but says if you don't take your share then you are treated with suspicion and don't get on. The army want to get back to a full place at the troughing table along with the democrats rather than sidelined as they currently are - so as others have more elegantly put it the point of thug Suthep is to engineer conditions for a coup so that the army can back to central position of snouts in the Thai trough. Thaksin's big mistake was to think he could have the spoils to his own without sharing with the other elite families. Had he had a bit more strategic nous he could have ensured that all the troughers fed well and instituted some modest reforms and got Thailand noticed and admired on the global arena. Suffice to say like most of hisilk he got too greedy and consumed buy the trophies of power.

[SebD]

Repeating what I said in a similar New Item:

From the OP headline:

" Protest leader Suthep declares Bangkok seizure after New Year...."

Good.

It's been a slow train coming and I think Khun Suthep is choosing to ignore the fact that his "Democracy" supporters may well end up being outnumbered at least two-to-one (not forgetting that the world's media will also be upon Mr S's proposed Thai transition from democracy to autocracy.

This isn't the 1930's. People can see and report and if Abhisit (despite his expensive education) remains stupid enough to think the rest of the world will tolerate the birth of yet another North Korea, he is sadly mistaken.

About time Abhisit grew some and had Suthep arrested and handed over to the justice he so richly deserves.

[truk39]

Hi cnxforever,

Could you estimate the effect of this on voter percentages?

S

Is somebody REALLY in the know about house registration/voter registration in this country?

Please post!!!

I understand, may people, for example construction workers who are only temprary in BKK before going back to the farm, cannot vote in BKK because they are not registered in the shack on the construction site.

How long do you have to be registered in a new residence before you can vote there??

Is there a voter registration (US - style) in LOS??

Is it mandatory to get registered and change your ID card after having moved to another province??

If you have children of school age, do you have to register yourself in the town where they go to school???

Thanks for enlightening me!

In Thailand you are registered where ever your "real" home is.

Meaning you are a resident of where ever your Tabian Baan - or house registration says. Also the Thai national ID card states your hometown as to where you are registered - and not where you actually live since most migrant workers live in rented places. Some Thais spent all their life living and working in Bangkok but are not Bangkok residents.

Meaning that millions of Thais who work in Bangkok or other places in the Kingdom away from home - and most can of course not afford to buy property close to their work place in order to register a new home on a new Tabian Baan.

They can only vote in the district where there Tabian Baan / ID says they are registered.

If you can not afford to go home - or can not get time off for elections you can not vote!

This is why certain countries hold elections always on a Sunday and in some countries it is compulsory to participate in parliamentary elections to make sure all citizens are exercising their duty to vote - employers have to give time off to travel home and vote - or if impossible to return to vote by sealed official letter for citizens who reside abroad for example.

Aslo in my home country you have to register where ever you really reside after a period of 2 weeks and not your hometown - even if you live in a rented property you have to register within 2 weeks at your new address. This is also important for the city / town you are moving to as they get a certain amount of tax money per resident from the national budget.

I am afraid I can not - but if one thinks that voter turnout during the last general election in 2011 was approx. 75 % of all eligible voters it surely must be a burden for somebody who has to survive on minimum wage to return home and travel back to work a day or so later.

Just imagine if a resident of the North or Northeast of Thailand works and lives in the South or the other way around - it would be a huge burden to travel home just to vote.

...

And also the fact that traveling that far by pickup/van/bus carries only a 25% chance of survival.

[looping]

Many of the TV trolls hate Suthep. If you are one of them, please feel free to offer alternative ideas on how to rid Thailand of the Shin wannabe dictatorship.

And you think this guy is OK? Hmmmm.

Let's see what the people of Bangkok think in the New Year. Suthep is completely off his trolley and needs a padded room!

And by the way, the PTP were elected by the people.

This is the problem. For a democracy to work:

1. The voters need to have an informed opinion and shouldn't be coerced into voting for a particular person (red villages spring to mind).

2. The government needs to outline some policies (YL was too busy to go into any details I seem to remember apart from the rice scheme, 'Samsung' tablets for schools, etc). They should show that they have budgeted for these, not just dreamed them up.

3. There needs to be a televised debate between the prospective candidates for PM.

I seem to remember that YL wasn't available for a debate, saying that it wouldn't be fair as Abhisit had much more experience than her. By doing so she was actually stating that she wasn't a suitable candidate for election, but things went ahead et viola, here she is as PM, 'democratically elected' by the people.

What ACTUALLY happened during the last 'election' was SO far from democracy that to say YL was democratically elected is stretching things way too far.

I think that each party should have to outline their policies in REALLY F###### simple terms, so that people can understand what they're voting for, and look back before the next election to see if they kept their promises.

Maybe this could be done on television, plain and simple, so that a 5 yr old can understand it (who, BTW may as well have votes under the current system).

[PREM-R]

Many of the TV trolls hate Suthep. If you are one of them, please feel free to offer alternative ideas on how to rid Thailand of the Shin wannabe dictatorship.

And you think this guy is OK? Hmmmm.

Let's see what the people of Bangkok think in the New Year. Suthep is completely off his trolley and needs a padded room!

And by the way, the PTP were elected by the people.

This is the problem. For a democracy to work:

1. The voters need to have an informed opinion and shouldn't be coerced into voting for a particular person (red villages spring to mind).

2. The government needs to outline some policies (YL was too busy to go into any details I seem to remember apart from the rice scheme, 'Samsung' tablets for schools, etc). They should show that they have budgeted for these, not just dreamed them up.

3. There needs to be a televised debate between the prospective candidates for PM.

I seem to remember that YL wasn't available for a debate, saying that it wouldn't be fair as Abhisit had much more experience than her. By doing so she was actually stating that she wasn't a suitable candidate for election, but things went ahead et viola, here she is as PM, 'democratically elected' by the people.

What ACTUALLY happened during the last 'election' was SO far from democracy that to say YL was democratically elected is stretching things way too far.

I think that each party should have to outline their policies in REALLY F###### simple terms, so that people can understand what they're voting for, and look back before the next election to see if they kept their promises.

Maybe this could be done on television, plain and simple, so that a 5 yr old can understand it (who, BTW may as well have votes under the current system).

"What ACTUALLY happened during the last 'election' was SO far from democracy that to say YL was democratically elected is stretching things way too far"

O.K. so please tell what ACTUALLY happened during the last election, in your opinion of course!

[aimbc]

Would I be stating too much if YS can hold a town hall meeting where representative from the public can discuss the current situation with her? It would ease the tension and exhibit some leadership. It would also reaffrm the democractic process of government for all the people. And not just those who has elected her.

[aimbc]

This is now escalating into what.....

It is escalating into what should have happened decades ago.

A serious reform of the political system, instead of empty promises to work on a reform, but in reality just continue to loot the state coffers

Yes, political reform is needed. But let us not forget that IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY. We are witnessing what happens when a basically feudal agrarian economic system runs into the 21st century. The people at the bottom want more of the growth in the GDP. Many want to start and run small enterprises in their villages and not grow rice on rented land.

Thaksin promised them more and they voted for him. Surprise, Surprise. Let's not forget that this was a sea change in Thai politics. The folks at the bottom of the ladder had never before had any meaningful representation. And he began to deliver on some of their promises with infrastructure investment, more money for rural schools, a bare beginning at making health care accessible. It seems clear that the sum total of what was happening scared the living shit out of the Bangkok power structure that really controlled the country and the economy. Hell, if poor people could REALLY elect someone who represented their interests, what would happen in the future?

Let's not be naive. This has happened in emerging countries all over the world. Hell, it is happening in the United States right now. Oligarchic rule is on the wrong side of history. In Thailand, the Genie is out of the bottle and the political and economic structure will slowly but certainly change to afford greater opportunities to all of the Thai people.

This does not not give TS the rights to abuse democracy and his power. It is funny how everyone talk much about democracy and then make excuses for all its downfall and weakness. And that we should do nothing and accept it because it happens else where. You either have democracy or you don't. Because according to everyone here true democracy does not exist. If so where? Just a word coined up to make everyone feel righteous. And democracy is not a one size fits all. So allow Thailand to create democracy in their own way.

[williamta20012]

This is now escalating into what.....

It is escalating into what should have happened decades ago.

A serious reform of the political system, instead of empty promises to work on a reform, but in reality just continue to loot the state coffers

Yes, political reform is needed. But let us not forget that IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY. We are witnessing what happens when a basically feudal agrarian economic system runs into the 21st century. The people at the bottom want more of the growth in the GDP. Many want to start and run small enterprises in their villages and not grow rice on rented land.

Thaksin promised them more and they voted for him. Surprise, Surprise. Let's not forget that this was a sea change in Thai politics. The folks at the bottom of the ladder had never before had any meaningful representation. And he began to deliver on some of their promises with infrastructure investment, more money for rural schools, a bare beginning at making health care accessible. It seems clear that the sum total of what was happening scared the living shit out of the Bangkok power structure that really controlled the country and the economy. Hell, if poor people could REALLY elect someone who represented their interests, what would happen in the future?

Let's not be naive. This has happened in emerging countries all over the world. Hell, it is happening in the United States right now. Oligarchic rule is on the wrong side of history. In Thailand, the Genie is out of the bottle and the political and economic structure will slowly but certainly change to afford greater opportunities to all of the Thai people.

This does not not give TS the rights to abuse democracy and his power. It is funny how everyone talk much about democracy and then make excuses for all its downfall and weakness. And that we should do nothing and accept it because it happens else where. You either have democracy or you don't. Because according to everyone here true democracy does not exist. If so where? Just a word coined up to make everyone feel righteous. And democracy is not a one size fits all. So allow Thailand to create democracy in their own way.

Well lets take a few seconds to DEFINE democracy!

Unfortunately democracy is when the MANY vote to STEAL from the FEW by the monopoly of government violence. This destroys business, the incentive to work and transfers land labor5 and capital to the lazy and stupid.

How embarrassing!

Yes its about power and money bought by bribing the many. Every one here has blood on their hands. The only system that comes close to working is a constitutional republic. As long as the constitution protects the following.

- property rights

- freedom of speech

- sound money

- and the right to bear arms

The last pillar in this house is the High courts ability to uphold those moral logical rights of human beings.

What Thailand NEEDS is a sound currency, no fractional reserve bank lending of fiat, they need to understand how to protect themselves from inflation and above business owners need some FREEDOM!

and im talking about freedom to make mistakes too. Yes if you grow rice and nobody buys it you are growing the wrong product MATE. Deal with it. Dont ask the state to steal for you!

[beautifulthailand99]

George Carlin RIP says it all here about the US but it basically about power and spot on cross-over to the Thai situation

[JAG]

Many of the TV trolls hate Suthep. If you are one of them, please feel free to offer alternative ideas on how to rid Thailand of the Shin wannabe dictatorship.

And you think this guy is OK? Hmmmm.

Let's see what the people of Bangkok think in the New Year. Suthep is completely off his trolley and needs a padded room!

And by the way, the PTP were elected by the people.

This is the problem. For a democracy to work:

1. The voters need to have an informed opinion and shouldn't be coerced into voting for a particular person (red villages spring to mind).

2. The government needs to outline some policies (YL was too busy to go into any details I seem to remember apart from the rice scheme, 'Samsung' tablets for schools, etc). They should show that they have budgeted for these, not just dreamed them up.

3. There needs to be a televised debate between the prospective candidates for PM.

I seem to remember that YL wasn't available for a debate, saying that it wouldn't be fair as Abhisit had much more experience than her. By doing so she was actually stating that she wasn't a suitable candidate for election, but things went ahead et viola, here she is as PM, 'democratically elected' by the people.

What ACTUALLY happened during the last 'election' was SO far from democracy that to say YL was democratically elected is stretching things way too far.

I think that each party should have to outline their policies in REALLY F###### simple terms, so that people can understand what they're voting for, and look back before the next election to see if they kept their promises.

Maybe this could be done on television, plain and simple, so that a 5 yr old can understand it (who, BTW may as well have votes under the current system).

People went to the polls throughput Thailand They voted in a secret ballot. The candidates were all registered as required by the Constitution.

The election was internationally recognised as free and fair.

Pheu Thai won a majority of seats. Therefore Yingluck became Prime Minister and formed a government.

What is so far from democracy, apart from the fact that the party you favour did not win?

Contrast that with an attempt to seize power by a would be dictator at the head of a mob, who is intent as part of his programme on preventing elections, which are to be held under the terms of the Constitution, and are called by Royal Decree.

How far from democracy is that?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[citizen33]

Prachatai has published an interesting article that applies Hannah Arendt’s ‘Origins of Totalitarianism’ to the present situation.

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/3802

I'm not sure that I really buy the argument about atomisation and disenchantment of the middle classes – in my opinion it is anxiety about the erosion of their position rather than their objective lot that is the source of the problem – but it is no bad thing to look to the classics for understanding of what is happening.

In terms of the public discourse – the speeches from the protest platforms and their resemblance to similar speeches in the 1930s - Kenneth Burke’s ‘Rhetoric of Hitler’s “Battle”’ (1939) and ‘Rhetoric of Motives’ (1945) are instructive. I guess not many on TVF will be interested but there are illuminating parallels with what we see today.

[paz]

[ranting deleted]

- and the right to bear arms

[ranting deleted]

You have done nothing more here than showing which country you are from, Next time just say it and that you support capitalism, save yourself the writing efferot also considering the dubious results produced.

[tomyummer]

Why doesn't he just get it over with and go directly to Chang Mai, the strong hold and heart of the Thaksin family?

[looping]

People went to the polls throughput Thailand They voted in a secret ballot. The candidates were all registered as required by the Constitution.

The election was internationally recognised as free and fair.

Pheu Thai won a majority of seats. Therefore Yingluck became Prime Minister and formed a government.

What is so far from democracy, apart from the fact that the party you favour did not win?

Contrast that with an attempt to seize power by a would be dictator at the head of a mob, who is intent as part of his programme on preventing elections, which are to be held under the terms of the Constitution, and are called by Royal Decree.

How far from democracy is that?

Hi Jag,

So I guess those 3 points I outlined don't concern you at all?

If people aren't making informed decisions because policies aren't outlined or budgeted for (apart from the promise of candy canes), would you agree that the whole thing is a farce?

Add to that the refusal of YL to debate anything publically (TS did the same I remember), is that still acceptable, in your opinion?

Vote buying, ok?

Whilst we're at it I'd love to hear what you have to say about the red villages, another sign of democracy at work?

Hmmm

Edited December 31, 2013 by looping

[JAG]

These are valid points (although I don't think that vote buying is a major factor). However under the regime Suthep wishes to install ( with a self proclaimed mandate which will not be tested by ballot) there will be no opportunity to make informed decisions, nor for any public decision. An appointed government will rule, and any possible future election will be held under arrangements which will ensure that Suthep and his backers will win.

I don't claim that Thai democracy is not flawed, but I would take an elected government over a dictatorship put in place by a minority mob any day. I suppose that is where we differ.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jackrich]

These are valid points (although I don't think that vote buying is a major factor). However under the regime Suthep wishes to install ( with a self proclaimed mandate which will not be tested by ballot) there will be no opportunity to make informed decisions, nor for any public decision. An appointed government will rule, and any possible future election will be held under arrangements which will ensure that Suthep and his backers will win.

I don't claim that Thai democracy is not flawed, but I would take an elected government over a dictatorship put in place by a minority mob any day. I suppose that is where we differ.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I completely agree. Very well said.

[beautifulthailand99]

When farang 'logic' meets Thai feudal power broking wrapped in a murky envelope of 'democracy' then there will be a great weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The Buddha was no stranger to politics and the exercise of power and his words ring ever truer

with the passing of time - not that any of these Thai politicians would lift there snoughts from the trough for one moment to consider a greater good.

The Buddha once said, 'When the ruler of a country is just and good, the ministers become just and good; when the ministers are just and good, the higher officials become just and good; when the higher officials are just and good, the rank and file become just and good; when the rank and file become just and good, the people become just and good.'(Anguttara Nikaya).

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/whatbudbeliev/229.htm

Edited December 31, 2013 by beautifulthailand99