CNN, BBC all English news really love Thaksin and hate Abhisit

[shiok]

Democracy is determined by definition not location. Sorry bout that.

As much as you don't like the elected government it is the government and you are not God.

I think Obama should be impeached. When enough other people feel that way they will impeach him. Until then he has a job. I can't kick him out. Nor can you kick out a government because you think they are corrupt. They may be corrupt. Should we take your word for it? Who are you.

You are so so wrong.. they bought their votes in the rural areas and even threatened them.. you should not believe him because you know nothing

Where did I say they didn't buy votes? I said democracy is determined by definition not location.

Who should I not believe? I believe the dictionary. Democracy = a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

I meant the part about your doubt on corruption

All the proof out in the open so look it up like the 'dictionary'

Telling people they know nothing or that someone is corrupt is not a very useful debate tool.

It the Thai people want to vote for a corrupt person that is their right. You can not take that right away from them because you think they are corrupt and stupid and still call in a democracy.

What you are pushing is a dictatorship. Where a leader is appointed not elected.

appointed by the mass = elected. what dictatorship, he's doing the mass a favor by leading us and putting his life in danger

[HardenedSoul]

oh dear, you are so behind the fire of taksin, are you actually understanding that the people are fedup of the all taksin-corruption? hello! wake up and please!

Oh really?? Are you actually understanding that the opposition is just as corrupt?

You come across as one of those idiots who's read an article in the western media and consequently thinks he/she knows it all. You then come on here with that moronic "Uh, HELLOoooo?!" like you're on the bloody Jerry Springer show and everyone else has got it so wrong.

Pipe down and come back when you've grown up

[txp158]

oh dear, you are so behind the fire of taksin, are you actually understanding that the people are fedup of the all taksin-corruption? hello! wake up and please!

Oh really?? Are you actually understanding that the opposition is just as corrupt?

You come across as one of those idiots who's read an article in the western media and consequently thinks he/she knows it all. You then come on here with that moronic "Uh, HELLOoooo?!" like you're on the bloody Jerry Springer show and everyone else has got it so wrong.

Pipe down and come back when you've grown up

I usually am very agreeable with anyone about almost anything. But regarding the recent political turmoil in Thailand, Shiok is right. And you sir are wrong. No doubt about it.

[farang000999]

oh dear, you are so behind the fire of taksin, are you actually understanding that the people are fedup of the all taksin-corruption? hello! wake up and please!

Oh really?? Are you actually understanding that the opposition is just as corrupt?

Examples please.

[HardenedSoul]

oh dear, you are so behind the fire of taksin, are you actually understanding that the people are fedup of the all taksin-corruption? hello! wake up and please!

Oh really?? Are you actually understanding that the opposition is just as corrupt?

You come across as one of those idiots who's read an article in the western media and consequently thinks he/she knows it all. You then come on here with that moronic "Uh, HELLOoooo?!" like you're on the bloody Jerry Springer show and everyone else has got it so wrong.

Pipe down and come back when you've grown up

I usually am very agreeable with anyone about almost anything. But regarding the recent political turmoil in Thailand, Shiok is right. And you sir are wrong. No doubt about it.

Oh well that's it then. If you say it like that . . .

NOT

The only thing I need to know is that the PTP won a democratic election. The morons in the PDRC want to do away with one man-one vote because they think ordinary Thais are too damn stupid to know who to vote for but they're not; they just know the Democrats never gave a shit about them before, why would they change? They want to replace the democratic system with an unelected bunch of 400 so-called "good people" who will decide who runs the country.

There will be no reform; there will be no restoration of democracy, just a cabal of powerful businessmen, lawyers, coppers, generals, bureaucrats and their cronies raping and pillaging the country's wealth to sate their own avarice while the poor and uneducated are kept in their rightful place as cheap labour.

I take great comfort knowing that the overwhelming majority of Thais will absolutely NOT accept disenfranchisement and slope off into the countryside with a whimper.

Yes, Thaksin is a pillock and a corrupt one at that but the red shirts aren't stupid; they know he's using their grievances as a platform upon which to engineer a return to Thailand and power but hey, they're using his money to further their aims, aren't they?

[txp158]

Oh well that's it then. If you say it like that . . .

NOT

The only thing I need to know is that the PTP won a democratic election. The morons in the PDRC want to do away with one man-one vote because they think ordinary Thais are too dam_n stupid to know who to vote for but they're not; they just know the Democrats never gave a shit about them before, why would they change? They want to replace the democratic system with an unelected bunch of 400 so-called "good people" who will decide who runs the country.

There will be no reform; there will be no restoration of democracy, just a cabal of powerful businessmen, lawyers, coppers, generals, bureaucrats and their cronies raping and pillaging the country's wealth to sate their own avarice while the poor and uneducated are kept in their rightful place as cheap labour.

I take great comfort knowing that the overwhelming majority of Thais will absolutely NOT accept disenfranchisement and slope off into the countryside with a whimper.

Yes, Thaksin is a pillock and a corrupt one at that but the red shirts aren't stupid; they know he's using their grievances as a platform upon which to engineer a return to Thailand and power but hey, they're using his money to further their aims, aren't they?

You see, that is where you are wrong. There will be election. The 400 so-called "good people" are not here to stay but to reform the country.

Agree, the red shirts are not stupid, they are in it for the money. People like that aren't stupid. They are just too greedy to care. But that's ok if your so-called democracy is just. Too bad, it's not so so just, is it?

In case, you don't know what this guy (who is currently the deputy minister of commerce) says, I'll help you out. The man said in front thousands of red shirt "burn it, burn it all, I'll take full responsibility." Of course, three years later he denied ever saying something like that. People who are capable of doing these things and support these acts are definitely not stupid. I'm sure they want to improve Thailand so much they burnt Bangkok to the ground.

I don't know where you get the idea there will be no election from. I'm too lazy to talk to people who don't read newspaper and keep making something up in their head without any fact to back up their claim. If you don't have anything better to say, don't say it. If you ever do, I'll be here waiting.

Edited December 31, 2013 by txp158

[HardenedSoul]

Oh my good God !!

Could it be that you actually didn't realise that "one man-one vote" will be gone if Suthep succeeds??

Reform?? What reform?? How do you think the system will be reformed? A witch hunt for anyone remotely connected with the PTP?

That will take years and in the meantime, Thailand will be run and controlled by the elite for the elite.

I would say "wait and see" but it's never going to happen.

Edited December 31, 2013 by HardenedSoul

[7by7]

Manarak, I'm not going to clutter up this topic by quoting your post in full; we both know what you said.

Neither am I going to further drag this topic off topic by continuing our argument.

I will simply say that I believe democracy means all adults having the vote; whilst you believe only those deemed qualified by the government should.

Let's leave it at that.

[txp158]

Oh my good God !!

Could it be that you actually didn't realise that "one man-one vote" will be gone if Suthep succeeds??

Reform?? What reform?? How do you think the system will be reformed? A witch hunt for anyone remotely connected with the PTP?

That will take years and in the meantime, Thailand will be run and controlled by the elite for the elite.

I would say "wait and see" but it's never going to happen.

yawn.. and your reference is??

I hope you find one. I'll be waiting in the meantime.

[thailiketoo]

Oh my good God !!

Could it be that you actually didn't realise that "one man-one vote" will be gone if Suthep succeeds??

Reform?? What reform?? How do you think the system will be reformed? A witch hunt for anyone remotely connected with the PTP?

That will take years and in the meantime, Thailand will be run and controlled by the elite for the elite.

I would say "wait and see" but it's never going to happen.

yawn.. and your reference is??

I hope you find one. I'll be waiting in the meantime.

Establish People's Council, Or No Election: Suthep

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/688660-establish-peoples-council-or-no-election-suthep/

[FiftyTwo]

I'm constantly amazed at the number of foreigners who want ...

1. An end to democracy in Thailand.

2. A government that hates foreigners and wants rid of them ASAP.

Blows my mind!

Edited December 31, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[manarak]

Manarak, I'm not going to clutter up this topic by quoting your post in full; we both know what you said.

Neither am I going to further drag this topic off topic by continuing our argument.

I will simply say that I believe democracy means all adults having the vote; whilst you believe only those deemed qualified by the government should.

Let's leave it at that.

We don't have an argument yet - didn't call you any names

I thought we were debating.

Side remark: do you mean restricting the age for voting is not the government deeming a part of the population qualified ?

What I am looking for in voters is responsibility (people who don't pay the cost of the government's policies don't endorse any) and loyalty to the country's wellbeing as a whole as opposed to only their own well-being (people voting for whoever is more likely to give away free money at the cost of damaging the country's economic health aren't loyal).

Some voting populations are wiser than others.

Look how the Swiss decided in 2012:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/archive/Voters_say_no_to_longer_holidays.html?cid=32271764

In any of the failing socialist states of southern Europe, such a proposal would have been adopted !

Edited December 31, 2013 by manarak

[txp158]

Too bad, I'm a Thai national, I was born and raised in Thailand. I'm amazed at how people enjoy commenting on Thai politic despite the fact they don't read Thai newspaper.

[thailiketoo]

We don't have an argument yet - didn't call you any names

I thought we were debating.

Side remark: do you mean restricting the age for voting is not the government deeming a part of the population qualified ?

What I am looking for in voters is responsibility (people who don't pay the cost of the government's policies don't endorse any) and loyalty to the country's wellbeing as a whole as opposed to only their own well-being (people voting for whoever is more likely to give away free money at the cost of damaging the country's economic health aren't loyal).

Some voting populations are wiser than others.

Look how the Swiss decided in 2012:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/archive/Voters_say_no_to_longer_holidays.html?cid=32271764

In any of the failing socialist states of southern Europe, such a proposal would have been adopted !

Is your idea only to count the votes of Yellow shirts or people living in Bangkok? How would you determine who determines who is qualified? Or there is my idea. No Thai is smart enough to vote. Have the Thailand voting done in Singapore.

[txp158]

You ...idiot. He said reform then election. The government wants election then reform. Do you think there is ever gonna be any reform if you let Yingluk take control again.

You obviously don't have a clue. Please stop making a fool of yourself.

I believe him. Thailand has needed reform since the 1930's so elections in another 100 years or so? Do you have a century in mind? Why would you call me an idiot? Do you think Suthep and a few angry folks can do something the Thai people have been trying to do for three generations?

He said we need 1 years to make adjustment of the basics. Specific amount time has already been raised, of course not by him alone. There were other groups of people involved in the decision making. They also beg people with knowledge to come out and participate in the seminars regarding how to make thailand better. Specific laws on election and legislative branch need to be changed now. Had they allow the same politician to take control, there'll never be any changes. Back then, MP of my province was the husband of the senate from my province. Didn't you see how Yingluck government wanted to bring it back. Now their plan was rejected by constitutional court, and they won't accept the verdict given. How cool is that?

If you've been watching blue sky, ASTV, FMTV, we wouldn't be making any of this conversation, would we?

Edited December 31, 2013 by txp158

[manarak]

We don't have an argument yet - didn't call you any names

I thought we were debating.

Side remark: do you mean restricting the age for voting is not the government deeming a part of the population qualified ?

What I am looking for in voters is responsibility (people who don't pay the cost of the government's policies don't endorse any) and loyalty to the country's wellbeing as a whole as opposed to only their own well-being (people voting for whoever is more likely to give away free money at the cost of damaging the country's economic health aren't loyal).

Some voting populations are wiser than others.

Look how the Swiss decided in 2012:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/archive/Voters_say_no_to_longer_holidays.html?cid=32271764

In any of the failing socialist states of southern Europe, such a proposal would have been adopted !

Is your idea only to count the votes of Yellow shirts or people living in Bangkok? How would you determine who determines who is qualified? Or there is my idea. No Thai is smart enough to vote. Have the Thailand voting done in Singapore.

I would say anyone that is (or was long enough) a net tax contributor to the budget is qualified, plus a bunch of exceptions!

The requirement is to pay more tax than direct social transfers are received, anyone earning money (or receiving money from investments, insurance payments, etc.), as long as it's enough to pay tax on it, would qualify, plus all the other people who would automatically qualify (community workers / volunteers, state employees, war veterans, etc...)

[thailiketoo]

He said we need 1 years to make adjustment of the basics. Specific amount time has already been raised, of course not by him alone. There were other groups of people involved in the decision making. They also beg people with knowledge to come out and participate in the seminars regarding how to make thailand better. Specific laws on election and legislative branch need to be changed now. Had they allow the same politician to take control, there'll never be any changes. Back then, MP of my province was the husband of the senate from my province. Didn't you see how Yingluck government wanted to bring it back. Now their plan was rejected by constitutional court, and they won't accept the verdict given. How cool is that?

If you've been watching blue sky, ASTV, FMTV, we wouldn't be making any of this conversation, would we?

Although he has promised many benefits Thailand would received under the ′People′s Council′, such as the eradication of corruption and evil politicians, Mr. Suthep has never explained in-depth details of the council, other than insisting that it would be composed of "moral" people.

Mr. Suthep likewise did not name any potential candidate for the People′s Council, but said its members would not be registered to any political party.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/688660-establish-peoples-council-or-no-election-suthep/

Perhaps you could provide some link to answer who, what, where and when of the Peoples Council?

Because if it is not in print it didn't happen.

[txp158]

He said we need 1 years to make adjustment of the basics. Specific amount time has already been raised, of course not by him alone. There were other groups of people involved in the decision making. They also beg people with knowledge to come out and participate in the seminars regarding how to make thailand better. Specific laws on election and legislative branch need to be changed now. Had they allow the same politician to take control, there'll never be any changes. Back then, MP of my province was the husband of the senate from my province. Didn't you see how Yingluck government wanted to bring it back. Now their plan was rejected by constitutional court, and they won't accept the verdict given. How cool is that?

If you've been watching blue sky, ASTV, FMTV, we wouldn't be making any of this conversation, would we?

Although he has promised many benefits Thailand would received under the ′People′s Council′, such as the eradication of corruption and evil politicians, Mr. Suthep has never explained in-depth details of the council, other than insisting that it would be composed of "moral" people.

Mr. Suthep likewise did not name any potential candidate for the People′s Council, but said its members would not be registered to any political party.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/688660-establish-peoples-council-or-no-election-suthep/

Perhaps you could provide some link to answer who, what, where and when of the Peoples Council?

Because if it is not in print it didn't happen.

If you ask me, I like Thailand to go libertarian. That'll definitely end corruption. As for the people's council, I don't know who they will be. But at least, it's better than what we have now. If you don't believe me, why don't you check the biography of each MP and ministry of for Thai party?

Why don't you tell me what we should do? Have another fake election and allow sadam and hitler-like people to rule the country and hope for the best?

[HardenedSoul]

Too bad, I'm a Thai national, I was born and raised in Thailand. I'm amazed at how people enjoy commenting on Thai politic despite the fact they don't read Thai newspaper.

So what you're saying is that you believe everything you read in the Thai newspapers??

Thanks, that was hilarious.

I don't need to read the Thai newspapers to realise what's going on. All I need to do is look at Suthep, his schizophrenic rhetoric, read how he personally ordered troops to open fire on unarmed civilians in front of the temple at Wat Pathum and understand that this moron has managed to convince a supposedly "educated" middle class that the only way to save democracy is to uproot it.

[thailiketoo]

Although he has promised many benefits Thailand would received under the ′People′s Council′, such as the eradication of corruption and evil politicians, Mr. Suthep has never explained in-depth details of the council, other than insisting that it would be composed of "moral" people.

Mr. Suthep likewise did not name any potential candidate for the People′s Council, but said its members would not be registered to any political party.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/688660-establish-peoples-council-or-no-election-suthep/

Perhaps you could provide some link to answer who, what, where and when of the Peoples Council?

Because if it is not in print it didn't happen.

If you ask me, I like Thailand to go libertarian. That'll definitely end corruption. As for the people's council, I don't know who they will be. But at least, it's better than what we have now. If you don't believe me, why don't you check the biography of each MP and ministry of for Thai party?

Why don't you tell me what we should do? Have another fake election and allow sadam and hitler-like people to rule the country and hope for the best?

When you wanted a new airport you hired someone to design and build it from outside of Thailand. Siemens supplies the Skytrain. Government is too complicated for Thai people. You need to farm it out to Singapore. They will do a better job for a fraction of the price without corruption.

[txp158]

Too bad, I'm a Thai national, I was born and raised in Thailand. I'm amazed at how people enjoy commenting on Thai politic despite the fact they don't read Thai newspaper.

So what you're saying is that you believe everything you read in the Thai newspapers??

Thanks, that was hilarious.

I don't need to read the Thai newspapers to realise what's going on. All I need to do is look at Suthep, his schizophrenic rhetoric, read how he personally ordered troops to open fire on unarmed civilians in front of the temple at Wat Pathum and understand that this moron has managed to convince a supposedly "educated" middle class that the only way to save democracy is to uproot it.

hahaha at least, he did not leave the country and fight it out in court.

Two wolves and a lamb vote on what they'll eat for dinner. If that's your kind of democracy, it deserves to be uprooted.

If you think all democratic constitutions are all just, please think again. If not, why don't you fight it out with this guy.

[txp158]

Although he has promised many benefits Thailand would received under the ′People′s Council′, such as the eradication of corruption and evil politicians, Mr. Suthep has never explained in-depth details of the council, other than insisting that it would be composed of "moral" people.

Mr. Suthep likewise did not name any potential candidate for the People′s Council, but said its members would not be registered to any political party.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/688660-establish-peoples-council-or-no-election-suthep/

Perhaps you could provide some link to answer who, what, where and when of the Peoples Council?

Because if it is not in print it didn't happen.

If you ask me, I like Thailand to go libertarian. That'll definitely end corruption. As for the people's council, I don't know who they will be. But at least, it's better than what we have now. If you don't believe me, why don't you check the biography of each MP and ministry of for Thai party?

Why don't you tell me what we should do? Have another fake election and allow sadam and hitler-like people to rule the country and hope for the best?

When you wanted a new airport you hired someone to design and build it from outside of Thailand. Siemens supplies the Skytrain. Government is too complicated for Thai people. You need to farm it out to Singapore. They will do a better job for a fraction of the price without corruption.

That's what we have been doing, silly. We hired InVision until it was found guilty of foreign corrupt practice act by the US government. What about hopewell, in case you don't remember? There are more instances too many to be listed here. I'll be back in a couple hours, my last patient is waiting now.

[HardenedSoul]

Although he has promised many benefits Thailand would received under the ′People′s Council′, such as the eradication of corruption and evil politicians, Mr. Suthep has never explained in-depth details of the council, other than insisting that it would be composed of "moral" people.

Mr. Suthep likewise did not name any potential candidate for the People′s Council, but said its members would not be registered to any political party.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/688660-establish-peoples-council-or-no-election-suthep/

Perhaps you could provide some link to answer who, what, where and when of the Peoples Council?

Because if it is not in print it didn't happen.

If you ask me, I like Thailand to go libertarian. That'll definitely end corruption. As for the people's council, I don't know who they will be. But at least, it's better than what we have now. If you don't believe me, why don't you check the biography of each MP and ministry of for Thai party?

Why don't you tell me what we should do? Have another fake election and allow sadam and hitler-like people to rule the country and hope for the best?

When you wanted a new airport you hired someone to design and build it from outside of Thailand. Siemens supplies the Skytrain. Government is too complicated for Thai people. You need to farm it out to Singapore. They will do a better job for a fraction of the price without corruption.

That's what we have been doing, silly. We hired InVision until it was found guilty of foreign corrupt practice act by the US government. What about hopewell, in case you don't remember? There are more instances too many to be listed here. I'll be back in a couple hours, my last patient is waiting now.

Isn't self-medication frowned upon by the medical profession?

Edited December 31, 2013 by HardenedSoul

[thailiketoo]

Although he has promised many benefits Thailand would received under the ′People′s Council′, such as the eradication of corruption and evil politicians, Mr. Suthep has never explained in-depth details of the council, other than insisting that it would be composed of "moral" people.

Mr. Suthep likewise did not name any potential candidate for the People′s Council, but said its members would not be registered to any political party.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/688660-establish-peoples-council-or-no-election-suthep/

Perhaps you could provide some link to answer who, what, where and when of the Peoples Council?

Because if it is not in print it didn't happen.

If you ask me, I like Thailand to go libertarian. That'll definitely end corruption. As for the people's council, I don't know who they will be. But at least, it's better than what we have now. If you don't believe me, why don't you check the biography of each MP and ministry of for Thai party?

Why don't you tell me what we should do? Have another fake election and allow sadam and hitler-like people to rule the country and hope for the best?

When you wanted a new airport you hired someone to design and build it from outside of Thailand. Siemens supplies the Skytrain. Government is too complicated for Thai people. You need to farm it out to Singapore. They will do a better job for a fraction of the price without corruption.

That's what we have been doing, silly. We hired InVision until it was found guilty of foreign corrupt practice act by the US government. What about hopewell, in case you don't remember? There are more instances too many to be listed here. I'll be back in a couple hours, my last patient is waiting now.

You have not contracted out government to another country. No that is not what we have been doing. Don't lie. I know it is easier than telling the truth but a lie is still a lie. I believe Singapore contracts out part of their defense to the UK (someone who knows can speak to that). Singapore is not a stupid country. It's also not a democracy. Thailand is not ready for self government. Best do what Hong Kong did. Long term lease.

[7by7]

Neither am I going to further drag this topic off topic by continuing our argument.

We don't have an argument yet - didn't call you any names

I thought we were debating.

It seems that as well as not knowing the meaning of the word 'democracy' you also don't know the meaning of the word 'argument.'

Understandable if English is not your first language; but have you considered obtaining a dictionary?

Side remark: do you mean restricting the age for voting is not the government deeming a part of the population qualified ?

It is obvious that the franchise should only be extended to adults, which is why I said 'adults' in my post!

At what age one is deemed to be an adult is debateable; in some countries it's 18, others 21.

But in a true democracy, all adults should be able to vote, not just those whom the government deem worthy (although I will admit to being unsure about the insane and felons).

What I am looking for in voters is.......loyalty to the country's wellbeing as a whole as opposed to only their own well-being........

Do you include those who use loopholes and off shore accounts to avoid paying tax? You must believe in removing the franchise from them as well for your argument to have any merit.

[manarak]

It seems that as well as not knowing the meaning of the word 'democracy' you also don't know the meaning of the word 'argument.'

Understandable if English is not your first language; but have you considered obtaining a dictionary?

Side remark: do you mean restricting the age for voting is not the government deeming a part of the population qualified ?

It is obvious that the franchise should only be extended to adults, which is why I said 'adults' in my post!

At what age one is deemed to be an adult is debateable; in some countries it's 18, others 21.

But in a true democracy, all adults should be able to vote, not just those whom the government deem worthy (although I will admit to being unsure about the insane and felons).

What I am looking for in voters is.......loyalty to the country's wellbeing as a whole as opposed to only their own well-being........

Do you include those who use loopholes and off shore accounts to avoid paying tax? You must believe in removing the franchise from them as well for your argument to have any merit.

I am learning some more English thanks to you!

It's common practice that convicted criminals, felons and the insane can't vote.

And of course anyone avoiding taxes illegally should join the ranks of the felons - I wouldn't miss such people's votes!

[7by7]

Using loopholes and off shore accounts is tax avoidance, not tax evasion.

Tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidance isn't.

So, I ask you again: Do you include those who use loopholes and off shore accounts to avoid paying tax? You must believe in removing the franchise from them as well for your argument to have any merit.

[mogandave]

Using loopholes and off shore accounts is tax avoidance, not tax evasion.

Tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidance isn't.

So, I ask you again: Do you include those who use loopholes and off shore accounts to avoid paying tax? You must believe in removing the franchise from them as well for your argument to have any merit.

Not sure where you are from, but in the US, money in offshore accounts is fully taxable and must be declared.

[txp158]

You have not contracted out government to another country. No that is not what we have been doing. Don't lie. I know it is easier than telling the truth but a lie is still a lie. I believe Singapore contracts out part of their defense to the UK (someone who knows can speak to that). Singapore is not a stupid country. It's also not a democracy. Thailand is not ready for self government. Best do what Hong Kong did. Long term lease.

The Five Power Defence Arrangements (FPDA) are a series of defence relationships established by a series of bilateral agreements between the UK, australia, New Zealand, Malaysia and sigapore (all Common wealth members) signed in 1971, whereby the five states will consult each other in the event of external aggression or threat of attack against Peninsular Malaysia and Singapore. The UK has the following personnel and facilities based in Malaysia and Singapore in support of the FPDA: a small Naval facility at Sembawang in Singapore and staff in the Integrated Area Defence System Headquarters (HQ IADS) at Butterworth in Malaysia. Staff at Sembawang total one Commander Royal Navy (who also serves as the Assistant Defence Attaché to Singapore), one Chief Petty Officer, one Petty officer and three Ministry of Defence civil servants.

I don't think contracted out government to another country would be the right word for FPDA. And btw I said libertarian meaning privately own. If the government decide to let there be competition in term of management of the public property, that would be fine. If the government decide to give a single entity to operate its property then that's not libertarian, is it?

ITO JV is an organization formed among Italian-Thai Development PCL, Takenaka corporation and Obayashi corporation, a team with mastery of architectural, constructional, and electrical/mechanical/plumbing techniques that was responsible for main-contracting Suvarnabhumi Airport. Airport of Thailand PLC (บริษัท ท่าอากาศยานไทย จำกัด) was accused of illegally hire ITO to build its conveyor system.

Scandal surrounding CTX 9000 which is sold to airport of Thailand PLC can be found here but it's all in Thai. To make the story short, ITO was required to build inline screening of luggages as part of new airport security protocol, so it contacts Invision, an american national company, to sell CTX 9000. Invision instead of selling the machine, asked ITO to contact its representative in Thailand aka Patriot. In the end, airport of Thailand PLC paid ITO 2.6 billion bahts, while ITO paid patriot 2 billion and patriot paid Invision 1.4 billion. Despite 3 contracts was made, all inventory and procurement operations under all contracts are identical in all respects.

None of this would be on the news, had there be no merger between invision and GE, a company in the U.S. market in 2004. Due to merger of a company in US market, internal investigation was made so that integration would be deemed transparent. However, it appears that the law firm which conducted the inspection had declared Invision may be committing an offense under the FCPA (foreign corruption practice act). Later on, Invision was found guilty by united states district court, northern district of california. The document relating to the case can be found here.

Scandal surrounding the contract between Thai government and STEYR - DAIMLER - PUCH Spezial fahrzeug AG&CO KGsty, a large manufacturing conglomerate based in Steyr, Austria can be found here. The document is also in Thai.

I'm too lazy to translate everything for you. While don't you learn some thai and read it yourself? It might change your perspective on contracting out government businesses.

[thailiketoo]

You have not contracted out government to another country. No that is not what we have been doing. Don't lie. I know it is easier than telling the truth but a lie is still a lie. I believe Singapore contracts out part of their defense to the UK (someone who knows can speak to that). Singapore is not a stupid country. It's also not a democracy. Thailand is not ready for self government. Best do what Hong Kong did. Long term lease.

The Five Power Defence Arrangements (FPDA) are a series of defence relationships established by a series of bilateral agreements between the UK, australia, New Zealand, Malaysia and sigapore (all Common wealth members) signed in 1971, whereby the five states will consult each other in the event of external aggression or threat of attack against Peninsular Malaysia and Singapore. The UK has the following personnel and facilities based in Malaysia and Singapore in support of the FPDA: a small Naval facility at Sembawang in Singapore and staff in the Integrated Area Defence System Headquarters (HQ IADS) at Butterworth in Malaysia. Staff at Sembawang total one Commander Royal Navy (who also serves as the Assistant Defence Attaché to Singapore), one Chief Petty Officer, one Petty officer and three Ministry of Defence civil servants.

I don't think contracted out government to another country would be the right word for FPDA. And btw I said libertarian meaning privately own. If the government decide to let there be competition in term of management of the public property, that would be fine. If the government decide to give a single entity to operate its property then that's not libertarian, is it?

ITO JV is an organization formed among Italian-Thai Development PCL, Takenaka corporation and Obayashi corporation, a team with mastery of architectural, constructional, and electrical/mechanical/plumbing techniques that was responsible for main-contracting Suvarnabhumi Airport. Airport of Thailand PLC (บริษัท ท่าอากาศยานไทย จำกัด) was accused of illegally hire ITO to build its conveyor system.

Scandal surrounding CTX 9000 which is sold to airport of Thailand PLC can be found here but it's all in Thai. To make the story short, ITO was required to build inline screening of luggages as part of new airport security protocol, so it contacts Invision, an american national company, to sell CTX 9000. Invision instead of selling the machine, asked ITO to contact its representative in Thailand aka Patriot. In the end, airport of Thailand PLC paid ITO 2.6 billion bahts, while ITO paid patriot 2 billion and patriot paid Invision 1.4 billion. Despite 3 contracts was made, all inventory and procurement operations under all contracts are identical in all respects.

None of this would be on the news, had there be no merger between invision and GE, a company in the U.S. market in 2004. Due to merger of a company in US market, internal investigation was made so that integration would be deemed transparent. However, it appears that the law firm which conducted the inspection had declared Invision may be committing an offense under the FCPA (foreign corruption practice act). Later on, Invision was found guilty by united states district court, northern district of california. The document relating to the case can be found here.

Scandal surrounding the contract between Thai government and STEYR - DAIMLER - PUCH Spezial fahrzeug AG&CO KGsty, a large manufacturing conglomerate based in Steyr, Austria can be found here. The document is also in Thai.

I'm too lazy to translate everything for you. While don't you learn some thai and read it yourself? It might change your perspective on contracting out government businesses.

Those are things any government can contract out. I meant contracting out the function of government as China did with Hong Kong. Seeing how the Thai government has done since the 1930's is basically an exorcise on missed chances and corruption. I'd give up if I were you. 100 years of failure is enough. Hire someone who can run a state around here like Singapore. Contract out the Parliament, PM and cops and Army. Be realistic. Thailand is a wonderful country with a lousy government.