Littering trash and dumping garbage

[MantisMan]

There is a small Shanty village that was built up by these workers on my street, Moo1 Soi Sunday.

It's on the left side just slightly past Wat Bophut dirt road entrance. They're not bad people. Polite, wave, say hello.

In the past, before I had any Thai language abilities, about 4 months ago to be exact, I'd stop by and give them a 20 kilo bag of rice and a bottle of Khao Lao.

At the time and even now I have no idea of there nationality. They seem to be a small community of about 5 families. I think they are working on the new temple project going on at Wat Bophut.

What bothers me is not the Shanty town nor the people, but the amount of trash they leave around their environs and how they polluted the creek that runs near them. This area is quite nice and could even be claimed to be a eco-friendly place. This is where I saw my first Kamodo dragon, across the street from them.

What I don't understand is the mentality of littering trash and garbage.

Why? Why do it? Why not pick up after yourself?

Is this some kind of cultural thing?

Is it laziness?

Lack of parental teaching?

Lack of common sense?

Lack of government campaigning?

Lack of pride and humility?

Lack of decency?

And it's not just here. It's everywhere in the world. Check photos of shanties in the Philippines and India.

Check out pics of projects in Detroit, New York, Chicago and L.A.

Is there some kind of auto-association with littering/dumping and being poor?

Does being poor automatically equate to not picking up after yourself

Is it a political statement that one is trying to make?

It is only a matter of taking a few empty plastic bags and filling them up.

Just up the road is a Jehovah's Witness building. Yesterday they were outside trimming hedges and picking up trash.

Communal work. Care of one's image and reputation. Pride. Humility. Common decency.

Stock piling trash in large bags has a political statement behind it. It means that we have loads of trash that needs to be picked up.

It means we have a community living here and we need to be recognized as citizens.

Remember the garbage strikes in Naples Italy a few years back?

I just don't get it.

Sorry, seems I have lots of questions with no answers.

Edited December 30, 2013 by MantisMan

[John 1]

Please fix your cat Bruno first.

[Gulfsailor]

There is a small Shanty village that was built up by these workers on my street, Moo1 Soi Sunday.

It's on the left side just slightly past Wat Bophut dirt road entrance. They're not bad people. Polite, wave, say hello.

In the past, before I had any Thai language abilities, about 4 months ago to be exact, I'd stop by and give them a 20 kilo bag of rice and a bottle of Khao Lao.

At the time and even now I have no idea of there nationality. They seem to be a small community of about 5 families. I think they are working on the new temple project going on at Wat Bophut.

What bothers me is not the Shanty town nor the people, but the amount of trash they leave around their environs and how they polluted the creek that runs near them. This area is quite nice and could even be claimed to be a eco-friendly place. This is where I saw my first Kamodo dragon, across the street from them.

What I don't understand is the mentality of littering trash and garbage.

Why? Why do it? Why not pick up after yourself?

Is this some kind of cultural thing?

Is it laziness?

Lack of parental teaching?

Lack of common sense?

Lack of government campaigning?

Lack of pride and humility?

Lack of decency?

And it's not just here. It's everywhere in the world. Check photos of shanties in the Philippines and India.

Check out pics of projects in Detroit, New York, Chicago and L.A.

Is there some kind of auto-association with littering/dumping and being poor?

Does being poor automatically equate to not picking up after yourself

Is it a political statement that one is trying to make?

It is only a matter of taking a few empty plastic bags and filling them up.

Just up the road is a Jehovah's Witness building. Yesterday they were outside trimming hedges and picking up trash.

Communal work. Care of one's image and reputation. Pride. Humility. Common decency.

Stock piling trash in large bags has a political statement behind it. It means that we have loads of trash that needs to be picked up.

It means we have a community living here and we need to be recognized as citizens.

Remember the garbage strikes in Naples Italy a few years back?

I just don't get it.

Sorry, seems I have lots of questions with no answers.

Cause and effect;

Being poor doesn't cause littering and polluting per se;

"Is this some kind of cultural thing?

Is it laziness?

Lack of parental teaching?

Lack of common sense?

Lack of government campaigning?

Lack of pride and humility?

Lack of decency?"

But all these combined do create poverty though.

[MantisMan]

Cause and effect;

Being poor doesn't cause littering and polluting per se;

"Is this some kind of cultural thing?

Is it laziness?

Lack of parental teaching?

Lack of common sense?

Lack of government campaigning?

Lack of pride and humility?

Lack of decency?"

But all these combined do create poverty though.

It's not the poverty perse, but the association of littering and dumping trash.

They seem to go hand in hand and I cannot seem to comprehend why.

Perhaps on my next visit with the bale of rice and bottle of Rice Whisky, I'll bring them some plastic garbage bags as well.

[John 1]

Cause and effect;

Being poor doesn't cause littering and polluting per se;

"Is this some kind of cultural thing?

Is it laziness?

Lack of parental teaching?

Lack of common sense?

Lack of government campaigning?

Lack of pride and humility?

Lack of decency?"

But all these combined do create poverty though.

It's not the poverty perse, but the association of littering and dumping trash.

They seem to go hand in hand and I cannot seem to comprehend why.

Perhaps on my next visit with the bale of rice and bottle of Rice Whisky, I'll bring them some plastic garbage bags as well.

Did you manage to get a photo of the Komodo dragon when you 1st visited this site would be interested to see or was it the common variety Monitor lizard. I would suggest only give these worker's plastic bags you are encouraging them to be lazy by feeding them whisky.

[SOMeTOM]

Might depends from a series of various factors.

One for sure it's this need to do as less as possible, the laziness.

Have you ever watched the crazy stuff they are literally hypnotized from on local tv, the lakorns?

They try to imitate the ultrarich they see on those tv series on any way they can, and throwing rubbish like this possibly make them feel superior as someone else will have to clean their crap (or more likely it will hang around for a looooong time).

If you ask them what they think of people who clean up, they will tell you "They are stupid!", and i can't blame them for this answer, as someone really seems to be so stupid to continue cleaning up after these people INSTEAD of challenging them and perhaps find a end to this rubbish (pun intended).

I had this problem on my road too, you should see these people, of all ages sizes and walk of life, with a rubbish bin available every 10 meters or so, even when passing by one at a half a meter distance from their lazy arm, they still throw it on the floor.

Had some discussion with some of these outstanding true thai citizen when the rubbish was throw on my land, at first i did explain them in a quiet and civilized way, then i had to let repeated offenders understand on the way they seem to understand, loudly and with my opinion about them well eared around....this did work!

Their reason would be "This is Thailand! We do like this! You are farang and you are bad, go back to your country!" ah ahh ahh, almost a copy of what some posters like to write around on the forum.

[Opl]

MantisMan,

I commute everyday by train to get to my work ( not in Thailand)

I admit I have to choose where to seat, littering is often left behind, it's disgusting.

One day, I gave tissues to a guy sitting sniffing on the opposite seat in front of me, who quite naturally, threw them one by one by through the window after use.

After a while, I could not help to tell him " don't litter this way" , he answered " there is no bin, what else do I do?", I replied " keep them in your pocket until you find one" - he stared at me: " that is disgusting !".

Edited December 30, 2013 by Opl

[carmine]

Littering is a way of life here. Inadequate bins alongside the roads, zero bins on the beaches......from the govt down to a kid just old enough to talk..they simply don't care. Govt and the TAT make these bold overtures about going free but its all nothing more than huff and puff because the bottom line is they have no real interest in the welfare of the environment. Sorry, but thats the way it is.

You would be better focusing on the better aspects of the place of which there are many.

[MantisMan]

Cause and effect;

Being poor doesn't cause littering and polluting per se;

"Is this some kind of cultural thing?

Is it laziness?

Lack of parental teaching?

Lack of common sense?

Lack of government campaigning?

Lack of pride and humility?

Lack of decency?"

But all these combined do create poverty though.

It's not the poverty perse, but the association of littering and dumping trash.

They seem to go hand in hand and I cannot seem to comprehend why.

Perhaps on my next visit with the bale of rice and bottle of Rice Whisky, I'll bring them some plastic garbage bags as well.

Did you manage to get a photo of the Komodo dragon when you 1st visited this site would be interested to see or was it the common variety Monitor lizard. I would suggest only give these worker's plastic bags you are encouraging them to be lazy by feeding them whisky.

I'm sorry about that. It was a Monitor lizard.

And yes, you're right about the whisky. I thought the whiskey would break the ice, but you're correct.

Edited December 30, 2013 by MantisMan

[MantisMan]

Please fix your cat Bruno first.

Please stay on topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

[Zumteufel]

I understand your wondering. I feel the same when I see people throw out litter from their cars, mortorbikes or on the street while walking. What the hell.

Not many litter bins around either, though, but not an excuse to just throw stuff. Not exactly the Buddhist way, pissing on nature like that.

[AlphMichaels]

Relevant topic and one I often wonder about. In many of the more rural areas I think it's simply the fact they lack regular or consistent trash collection services. It needs to fall partly to local government to move trash to incinerators or landfills.

But compared to most areas of India, not so bad here.

[salapau]

Come on the Thai people don't care !

[laobali]

Are there Thai (or Lao) words for recycling, conservation, ecology, environment, tree hugger, communal/personal awareness, social responsibility etc?

[jonesthebaker]

Thais are in the top few for being destructive of their local enviornment. I was up north a few years ago visiting some inlaws. they live in a small village - although about 5 familes have small houses built together around a small plot. there was dog shit, chicken shit, plastic bottles, empty cans, etc etc. laying all around the plot. they all sat around seemingly oblivious to the mess and simply stepped over any shit. i asked them why they didnt simply spend five minutes and pick everything up and the place would be so much nicer. they all responded by saying that the mess was due to the rainy season which made the shit and litter etc stick around. they advised me that in the dry season everthing simply dried up quickly and simply blew away.

having said that, if one were to walk around any poor housing area in the UK, litter and dog shit can be seen in many people front gardens.

so i guess it is a poor persons thing. dumb and lazy and ignorant - hence poor. being dumb and lazy and ignorant covers all nationalitys although thais must be in the top 3

Edited December 30, 2013 by jonesthebaker

[recycler]

They just love their country ;-)

[circusman]

Cause and effect;

Being poor doesn't cause littering and polluting per se;

"Is this some kind of cultural thing?

Is it laziness?

Lack of parental teaching?

Lack of common sense?

Lack of government campaigning?

Lack of pride and humility?

Lack of decency?"

But all these combined do create poverty though.

It's not the poverty perse, but the association of littering and dumping trash.

They seem to go hand in hand and I cannot seem to comprehend why.

Perhaps on my next visit with the bale of rice and bottle of Rice Whisky, I'll bring them some plastic garbage bags as well.

Are you hoping that the whiskey will put them in a frame of mind to not litter? Seems to me it will do the reverse.

[davidst01]

its nothing compared to what you might experience in Indonesia. Go for a holiday there and you might not be whinging here

[Birdman]

for us a tropical sunset is one of nature's most stunning events, for locals nothing worth looking at all. Ever noticed, that locals on the coasts build their houses with entrances and terrasses on the opposite side from the sea? While we would never even give that a thought, to build a house on a beach not facing the sea. Bevor we came, the youngest son got that piece of land, which had the smallest value, the land next to a beach, just because beaches had no value at all, because there was nothing they could use and do there.

so, ...

[MrBrad]

They just love their country ;-)

Perfect timing...6 minutes ago! I was about to post the same. No, from what I can see, and contrary to what essentially everyone in the country proclaims, Thais do not love their country. If they did, they'd take better care of it. Biking along the klongs and seeing all the paper, plastic, styrofoam, and all kinds of garbage in the water is mind numbing.

This is the exact sentiment I expressed to one Thai a few weeks ago, and his jaw just about hit the ground. Public Service Announcements could easily be played on radio and TV. Challenging the citizenry to show their love for the land would make a big difference.

Indeed, having adequate waste bins--and then regularly emptying and maintaining them--would be a good start. Even in the shopping malls one is hard pressed to find a place to discard trash.

There obviously is no pride in people's surroundings. Sad.

[climbertrev1]

Come on the Thai people don't care !

Don't generalise. My Thai girlfriend is as appalled by litter and dumping of garbage at least as much as I am.

Recently around Pattaya I have noticed signs going up in Thai telling people not to dump their trash here. The signs also point out that it is illegal to dump trash like this and is subject to fine.

40 years ago dumping of trash or fly tipping, as we call it in the UK, was rife in the UK. It was enforcement of existing laws and introduction of stiffer penalties that reduced the occurrence. Of course to achieve anything you need the rule of law and the will to apply the law. Around Jomtien the dumping of building waste and other waste, some I suspect to be toxic is particularly bad.

The lack of waste management in Thailand is particularly worrying when you consider the issue of toxic and hazardous waste. I know of several quarries that are in the process of being filled with waste of all descriptions. There are half hearted attempted such as inadequate fencing to prevent unauthorised dumping but fly tippers could be getting rid of anything they like in these tips. I know of several instances where village water supplies are being seriously polluted and health is endangered.

The authorities don't even seem that concerned about the rubbish and trash on the beach in Pattaya. There are occasional clean ups but these are far too few to have any real impact. It would appear that the authorities are only really interesting when they can get some tea money out so something.

[MuuDaeng]

That's real problem, and really strange that these people who think always just sabai and bueaty, don't give a ***t. Actually there is couple of things above all the rest in my list of most annoying things in Thailand (Pattaya, Phuket etc...), just can't say which one is more annoying; littering or traffic.

[nithisa78]

Mantis Man, not in Thailand, not anywhere.....for many. Especially the human beings you described. It isn't so easy being a person. You are doing well by them. Thank you. Please, continue. I am trustee with ITF -NGO. We all must do our part. Help each other. That is the, River of Life.

Happy New Year

[Briggsy]

Komodo dragon, in Thailand, I would like to see that.

Surprised at littering?

Giving strangers 20 kilo bags of rice?

I guess you have just arrived. We were all there once.

Best of luck on your Thai journey.

[ThaiTrav]

Littering is a way of life here. Inadequate bins alongside the roads, zero bins on the beaches......from the govt down to a kid just old enough to talk..they simply don't care. Govt and the TAT make these bold overtures about going free but its all nothing more than huff and puff because the bottom line is they have no real interest in the welfare of the environment. Sorry, but thats the way it is.

You would be better focusing on the better aspects of the place of which there are many.

Had a girlfriend (thai) once who managed to live in Australia and seperated from her husband whom had brought her there.Wasn't a bad type personality wise ,all was fine till I saw her place of residence, a house in modern suburbia, she was sharing with another and MY GOD! Inside was the dirtiest place I,ve ever seen in my 51 years of life. Stupidly I and a mate cleaned it over 5 days and countless trips to the tip . Old clothes amongst food and rotting food and maggots and stench in every room even the bed and sheets ,plastic bags cd discs cigarette buts and ash ....you name it it was there. Luckily that relationship was short lived .I did learn something..... Is those brought up in pigsville , living in Pigsville ,or acting like a resident of Pigsville won't and can't change ....no matter what .You see we are the farang telling . the Thais and they Hate being told! They can't comprehend intellect ,because they think they know better,but would rather run from it or simply state the does not compute tone .....HUH! Look at the road driving toll ect ! Do you really believe things will change???? Your only fooling yourselves if you do ,drunk driving , speeding a total lack of road meanings lines ,signs and rules and hey they got other mechanisms in place that cause mass culls too , Sonkran ect always gets a good yearly score even if they managed to get a control of one busy season theres other so many areas it would require a complete overhaul and the Thais definitely don't want that! Washing your hands before handling food , keeping food refrigerated and covered or knowing the time its been out festering bacteria ,,this is a tropical climate!! Ahh jus face it !!! Its too hard let em be happy seeing their friends killed on unpoliced roads and living amonst garbage and rotting carcarses, or their kids playing in mountains of garbage with hoards of homeless soi dogs and disease ridden cats in nearly every soi. Consider us the fortunate to have been brought up in clean and respectable neighbourhoods these people weren;t so lucky ,and sadly they know no different and telling them is a total waste of breath and time ,They can't see the big picture. This is Thailand and How dare we try and change that!

[JackieMager]

They have no pride in their home, possesions and surroundings. They wouldnt give a rats arse. Pity something wasnt done about it. Like in Singapore many years ago... And now people take pride and grow flowers in and around their abodes, a fine for dropping litter alongs with ciggies. I just dont know hiw the thais can live like this attracting rats and god only knows what else......... YET they look so pristine and are so into theiir self image. Find a window let slone a mirror and they stand there primming themselves, go to their home and its puke city.

[Shiver]

I have two observations. One was a long while ago back in the UK when at a horse racing track with a friend in a union job, and I was looking for a bin to put my empty plastic 'glass' of beer, and he said "throw it on the floor. If you don't you're doing someone out of a job".

Another is the "broken windows" project, which in a nutshell is about if the people have an investment in the area then they take care of it, if they don't, then it's not their problem. I saw it in the property business in UK a couple of decades back when the council houses were offered for sale. Suddenly people took their neighborhood seriously. I haven't been back there in quite a few years, so can't comment on their current predicament.

I live in a rental in Thailand, but I still feel dismay when people throw rubbish away opposite their residence when the bins on either side of the street are no more than 30 seconds walk. I keep dreaming of cleaning up the street and fixing the potholes at my own expense, but then back off, thinking that there's still more that I don't understand about the mentality of my neighbours. They are cordial and good with me, and don't want to undermine that, or find out what the real truth of what they really think of 'that farang' in their street (I'm the only one in the street now, used to be about 50/50, but people die and things move on...).

[SOMeTOM]

they know no different and telling them is a total waste of breath and time ,They can't see the big picture. This is Thailand and How dare we try and change that!

I agree, just telling them it's not going to achieve much if anything at all.....but try to scream it to them instead, holding on one of your hands a baseball bat, a bamboo stick or even a machete, clearly showing at the same time that what they do it's not making you happy, and as magic you will get an almost completely resolved issue.

I had problem in the past with neighbours thinking my land was their free parking space, then i used that magic trick and now it's just a memory from the past.

Mind you, that probably wouldn't help you in making them your friends, but honestly, whom really want to have those elements closer than what they are already?

A happier life is achievable with a little dedication, you just have to find the right tools.....

[Birdman]

They have no pride in their home, possesions and surroundings. They wouldnt give a rats arse. Pity something wasnt done about it. Like in Singapore many years ago... And now people take pride and grow flowers in and around their abodes, a fine for dropping litter alongs with ciggies. I just dont know hiw the thais can live like this attracting rats and god only knows what else......... YET they look so pristine and are so into theiir self image. Find a window let slone a mirror and they stand there primming themselves, go to their home and its puke city.

ever been to other 3rd world countries? no?

[Nemesis7]

All of the Above is the right answer.