Littering trash and dumping garbage

[Rooo]

In the OP's opening post:

At the time and even now I have no idea of there nationality.

So enough with Thai bashing please. I will start deleting posts & issuing warnings.

[Briggsy]

p.s. It wasn't a "shanty town". It was a labour camp.

[hellodolly]

Come on the Thai people don't care !

Don't generalise. My Thai girlfriend is as appalled by litter and dumping of garbage at least as much as I am.

Recently around Pattaya I have noticed signs going up in Thai telling people not to dump their trash here. The signs also point out that it is illegal to dump trash like this and is subject to fine.

40 years ago dumping of trash or fly tipping, as we call it in the UK, was rife in the UK. It was enforcement of existing laws and introduction of stiffer penalties that reduced the occurrence. Of course to achieve anything you need the rule of law and the will to apply the law. Around Jomtien the dumping of building waste and other waste, some I suspect to be toxic is particularly bad.

The lack of waste management in Thailand is particularly worrying when you consider the issue of toxic and hazardous waste. I know of several quarries that are in the process of being filled with waste of all descriptions. There are half hearted attempted such as inadequate fencing to prevent unauthorised dumping but fly tippers could be getting rid of anything they like in these tips. I know of several instances where village water supplies are being seriously polluted and health is endangered.

The authorities don't even seem that concerned about the rubbish and trash on the beach in Pattaya. There are occasional clean ups but these are far too few to have any real impact. It would appear that the authorities are only really interesting when they can get some tea money out so something.

Glad to see your post. i thought I was on a thread with a bunch of kids who knew nothing of their own past. When the Americans landed on the moon there was a joke going around that you could tell it was the Americans by the litter.

It will take time for Thailand to come to the same realization many other countries have. Or have they. I know in the state of Washington it is common to see signs saying this stretch of road is cleaned up by then they would name a company or union or club. It was not the government and they were cleaning it up because people were littering it. the government did have road side stops with bathrooms and trash bins. often I would see a service club at some of them with coffee.

Then again I forget that a lot of people do not want to miss a chance to bash. If I try to litter my Thai wife gets all upset about it she will carry it until she finds a litter barrel. Some times I feel mean. Just do it to get the reaction.

[hellodolly]

They have no pride in their home, possesions and surroundings. They wouldnt give a rats arse. Pity something wasnt done about it. Like in Singapore many years ago... And now people take pride and grow flowers in and around their abodes, a fine for dropping litter alongs with ciggies. I just dont know hiw the thais can live like this attracting rats and god only knows what else......... YET they look so pristine and are so into theiir self image. Find a window let slone a mirror and they stand there primming themselves, go to their home and its puke city.

O goody another newbie bashing the Thais because they can't live up to their idea's. I hope you at least try to give their different culture a chance before you discover all that is wrong with it.

the Thais may not live up to your expectations in many things but the one thing where ever you have come from is they will surpass your culture in taking care of their families. Sadly as the western culture based on materialism pushes it's way in the old is going out.

[bangon04]

There does seem to be some correlation between trash / litter / filth and eating. I see a lot of street food stalls set up within smelling distance of an open sewer / canal / drain, complete with rats and trash on the floor. The thai customers seem to ignore it.

I couldn't bear to sit and eat food with the stench in my nostrils like that, but here it seems to enhance the experience.

Even in so-called "tourist" areas, the farang sit around with rats, pigeons, stray dogs etc around their feet with the sewer smell all around. I had the misfortune today to walk along Suk Soi 11 and the stench is quite unbearable. Even from the middle of the roadway (which is the only place left to walk anyway) you can smell it.

[hellodolly]

I have two observations. One was a long while ago back in the UK when at a horse racing track with a friend in a union job, and I was looking for a bin to put my empty plastic 'glass' of beer, and he said "throw it on the floor. If you don't you're doing someone out of a job".

Another is the "broken windows" project, which in a nutshell is about if the people have an investment in the area then they take care of it, if they don't, then it's not their problem. I saw it in the property business in UK a couple of decades back when the council houses were offered for sale. Suddenly people took their neighborhood seriously. I haven't been back there in quite a few years, so can't comment on their current predicament.

I live in a rental in Thailand, but I still feel dismay when people throw rubbish away opposite their residence when the bins on either side of the street are no more than 30 seconds walk. I keep dreaming of cleaning up the street and fixing the potholes at my own expense, but then back off, thinking that there's still more that I don't understand about the mentality of my neighbours. They are cordial and good with me, and don't want to undermine that, or find out what the real truth of what they really think of 'that farang' in their street (I'm the only one in the street now, used to be about 50/50, but people die and things move on...).

It would be interesting if you did keep the area in front of your house and the neighbors clean. I wonder if they might join in. If you ever do try it let us know.

Don't know about the pot holes but the garbage might work out and then maybe fix the odd pot hole. would take time and patience. Defiantly be interesting.

[thefamilyjules]

It´s appalling for sure to see a high degree of negligence with regard to safety, drunkenness, human rights, education, the environment, what have you. I have seen plenty of examples to the contrary, however, some bordering on an OCDish standard of cleanliness and order.

I can handle that it´s probably a matter of ignorance and socialization. What kills me is the outright denial and scapegoating of any of the above.

I attended a conference for work recently -- I work for an NGO -- and one of the keynote speakers was a Thai woman who is a board member and a former provincial senator from the north. I genuinely asked her what positive qualities she has observed and would like to see in foreigners working and volunteering for our organization. She proceeded to launch into a trite, shallow comparison of the West and the East. Not only did she not answer my question, she insulted me and my colleagues by suggesting that the West is responsible for spoiling the environment, among other things, and that we foreigners could learn from the simple life of the

Asians. I just smiled and thanked her. Later, my colleagues and I were like, Are you GD kidding me?!

[quiuvo]

Starts at the top . Let the government put bins everywhere and give big trash bags to neighborhood leaders and call the x day of every month clean up day. It may work. Some of us look for a bin to throw our beer can . Hem.. And finally throw it anywhere out of frustration. Then have trash trucks pick up trash from the bins and bags and put in landfills.

Oh, I was dreaming. Third world countries have that designation for some reasons.

[Minnehaha]

How can you say people take no care in their surroundings?

Have you ever seen the very long trains with the black oil cars. People who live along the tracks throw their garbage onto the trains. Hahahaha. I wonder what happens when the trains arrive at the terminal...

[Briggsy]

What is a black oil car? Freight trains carrying oil from Laem Chabang's oil terminals are in sealed tanks. I have never seen anyone throwing anything at them never mind in them. Please explain.

[myluckythai]

Why care.? They don't! let them live in their own sheit if they want. No use trying to teach them anything anyways. It's their xxxxx country. Be happy you can go when it suits you. They have to live in it. I gave up already on these matters. It's like trying to teach a cow math.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Rooo
language

[SOMeTOM]

O goody another newbie bashing the Thais because they can't live up to their idea's. I hope you at least try to give their different culture a chance before you discover all that is wrong with it.

I can't believe how many people there are, trying to defend the indefensible and confusing ignorance and malfeasance with "culture" .

Do you really believe that people here are complaining or just telling their tales about the inconveniences they had, only because the baddies were thai???

Try to come around my place and misbehave, or act in the "cultural way" you are writing about anywhere near which is going to cause me annoyance, you have no idea on how many ways there are to let you see that was not about being a local or a foreigner....

[Wordworx]

Pretty much the same all over China and SE Asia (Singapore excluded, of course).

The average Chinese has no conception. I've watched them throw garbage on the ground literally next to a trash bin. I've seen several acres of land covered with plastic bags. (They have since largely done-away with plastic shopping bags, at least.) I've been out in some of the most remote and otherwise pristine areas, still cannot get away from the discarded styrofoam containers, food bags, etc.

Remote untended Islands in Malaysia, choked with plastic bottles. And I mean the beaches are totally blanketed.

Try Bali, swimming off the beaches or diving the reefs. You pull a bad day you swim in garbage. Reason being the sh-tbag Indo government is so busy pilfering and destroying their environment (like destruction of rain forest for palm oil industry) they don't bother with basic services, like garbage collection. The lower-end populace dumps their garbage in the rivers. The rivers choke with the crud and plastic. The rains come and the ocean fills up with everything you can imagine. Not the least of which, as always, is the plastic.

Decades ago when I was a kid in US, it was drilled into my head not to litter. Even as a child I would put a gum wrapper in my pocket rather than throw it on the ground or street.

So, the answer is, in short, crap and corrupt governments which do not serve or educate the people.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Wordworx

[hawker9000]

Starts at the top . Let the government put bins everywhere and give big trash bags to neighborhood leaders and call the x day of every month clean up day. It may work. Some of us look for a bin to throw our beer can . Hem.. And finally throw it anywhere out of frustration. Then have trash trucks pick up trash from the bins and bags and put in landfills.

Oh, I was dreaming. Third world countries have that designation for some reasons.

I disagree. Like so many other things leftists love to tout as the job of the nanny-state, this should be taught at HOME. I know that's where I was taught that littering is a filthy, disgusting, rude habit. Reinforced at school... By the time I was old enough to notice the 'Fine for Littering' signs, I was already beyond being able to comprehend such discourtesy and carelessness.

You buy the bottle of beer or can of soda, YOUR responsibility to hang onto it until you can dispose of it properly. Yeah, I know - shortage of bins. Still - YOUR problem to dispose of YOUR trash.

[HuaHinHim]

its nothing compared to what you might experience in Indonesia. Go for a holiday there and you might not be whinging here

Thing is we are talking about Thailand, but I'd have the same feeling in Indonesia. A pig sty is a pig sty what ever country your in

[cardinalblue]

Respect for the environment is not a value thus one has littering midnight dumping and poor waste management in general..

If things are going to change the solution will need to come through cultural compliance and not regulatory compliance...

Not buying into an effective law and order society , regulations are paper tigers only to appease foreigners..Thais detest regulations and enforcement...

Work the cultural angle..tie it into religion royal family endorsement local community behavior etc

To tell Thais not to do something or you will be punished has zero influence on their attitude and behavior...

CB

[HuaHinHim]

They have no pride in their home, possesions and surroundings. They wouldnt give a rats arse. Pity something wasnt done about it. Like in Singapore many years ago... And now people take pride and grow flowers in and around their abodes, a fine for dropping litter alongs with ciggies. I just dont know hiw the thais can live like this attracting rats and god only knows what else......... YET they look so pristine and are so into theiir self image. Find a window let slone a mirror and they stand there primming themselves, go to their home and its puke city.

O goody another newbie bashing the Thais because they can't live up to their idea's. I hope you at least try to give their different culture a chance before you discover all that is wrong with it.

the Thais may not live up to your expectations in many things but the one thing where ever you have come from is they will surpass your culture in taking care of their families. Sadly as the western culture based on materialism pushes it's way in the old is going out.

I don't agree with your last paragraph after reading about the abduction and murder of a seven year old girl recently after her Thai father left her in his pickup so he could watch the rest of a music concert. I would not or could not even contemplate leaving my daughter alone at that age, no matter what country I was in, and in my home country of Australia may even have her taken away from me by child protection services. I know of many Thai children who live with their grand parents because both parents have run off because they don't want to face up to their responsibilities of raising children but lacked the education that may have prevented unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Education needs to start sometime.

[CaptainS]

for us a tropical sunset is one of nature's most stunning events, for locals nothing worth looking at all. Ever noticed, that locals on the coasts build their houses with entrances and terrasses on the opposite side from the sea? While we would never even give that a thought, to build a house on a beach not facing the sea. Bevor we came, the youngest son got that piece of land, which had the smallest value, the land next to a beach, just because beaches had no value at all, because there was nothing they could use and do there.

so, ...

Maybe slighty offtopic: Even nowaways I know of locals (who plan to rent their houses to foreigners) build houses without seaview which could be easily done by just making them a bit higher.

My GFs (local Samui) relatives also have been suprised that I use that little bit of extra concrete (for what?) to have seaview instead of neighbours wall view, which probably doubled the value of my property. I have also been asked why I have choosen to be as far as possible on my land from the (noisy!) road and not right at the roadside.

So the locals just have a different thinking about those things as us.

To make it less offtopic: My GF also hates littering, not all locals dont care.

[Jose]

Re the "culture" of littering, it wasn't that long ago that street food came wrapped in banana leaves, and houses were made almost entirely from coconut trees. Dumping any of this organic waste was not an issue then.

Then along came the $, and plastic bags, asbestos tiles, cement with it. But unfortunately the waste dumping attitude "culture" didn't change with the arrival of these harmful materials.

So here we are now in 2014 - living in a time with modern (and dangerous) products everywhere, alongside with clueless locals who don't give a sht about their environment, and who belong to a bygone era.

[sbf]

Litter and potholes are two things which intrigue me in our local village. I have pondered the litter thing often. Thais are generally reasonably adept at dealing with their traditional organic waste, most yards are swept daily the leaves piled up and burnt, rice field are ( wrongly in my opinion ) burnt after harvest. The point is there are centuries old ways of dealing with traditional waste, it is just the relatively new packaging waste which has many perplexed.

Until recently there has been little inorganic waste to clear up since most of the daily items consumed by village households were also produced locally and were largely free of packaging. 20 years ago there were no shops in the village, no nearby Tesco's, BigC etc, and therefore little packaging use apart from a large number of glass bottles. These have always had some residual value and were therefore collected and sold.

In our village there is no organised bin system or rubbish collection, as one would recognise it in most European or North American towns. Largely every family must deal with their own waste, some do this well, separating the glass, plastics and other recyclables which can be sold, whilst burning other waste. Others seem to be too busy or too lazy to spare time for this, or just do not "see" the rubbish lying around as unsightly. I really hope that disposable nappies do not catch on here, but I see they are now available in one of our village shops.

Potholes are something else which intrigue me - Isaan villages obviously do not have quite enough intellectual stimulation for me at times - we have a massive series of them just at the entrance to our local village a little further down the road from us. To my mind they are a very poor advertisement for the village being right at the entrance sign id addition to being dangerous and hard on vehicles. I have been watching for years as these potholes have developed and often wondered why these were not dealt with whilst much smaller, and what state the road must degrade to before anything is done, and by whom. I also wondered why the next village up the road is relatively pothole free.

Without getting involved off topic with who is responsible for road construction contracts, specifying materials and checking the specs are adhered to, when it comes to potholes I think that it has a lot to do with the Phu Yai Baan for the village, and whether they see potholes as a problem, and whether they are generally pro-active in keeping the village looking good. My wife informs me the pothole free village up the road has a much better educated leader who organises everyone and on every Mothers or Fathers Day they go out with sand and cement donated by locals and fill in all the potholes, amongst other tidying up efforts in the village. The pothole free village did the 2km of road from their village to just outside ours earlier this year. I fear now our village entrance potholes are such a state that major road repairs are needed, but once done and with my recently gained knowledge of how the pothole repair system works at a local level I will make sure that the 500m down to the village are looked after going forwards.

[cracker1]

I wonder if there is a public rubbish collection and bins in this area ? Ever walked along Sukhumvit road in Bangkok looking for a bin to drop a chewing gum wrapper in ? If there were more rubbish receptacles available I think there would be less rubbish on the streets.

[Ghostnigel]

Cause and effect;

Being poor doesn't cause littering and polluting per se;

"Is this some kind of cultural thing?

Is it laziness?

Lack of parental teaching?

Lack of common sense?

Lack of government campaigning?

Lack of pride and humility?

Lack of decency?"

But all these combined do create poverty though.

It's not the poverty perse, but the association of littering and dumping trash.

They seem to go hand in hand and I cannot seem to comprehend why.

Perhaps on my next visit with the bale of rice and bottle of Rice Whisky, I'll bring them some plastic garbage bags as well.

That was gonna be my post....take them rubbish bags with rice!!

[hellodolly]

It´s appalling for sure to see a high degree of negligence with regard to safety, drunkenness, human rights, education, the environment, what have you. I have seen plenty of examples to the contrary, however, some bordering on an OCDish standard of cleanliness and order.

I can handle that it´s probably a matter of ignorance and socialization. What kills me is the outright denial and scapegoating of any of the above.

I attended a conference for work recently -- I work for an NGO -- and one of the keynote speakers was a Thai woman who is a board member and a former provincial senator from the north. I genuinely asked her what positive qualities she has observed and would like to see in foreigners working and volunteering for our organization. She proceeded to launch into a trite, shallow comparison of the West and the East. Not only did she not answer my question, she insulted me and my colleagues by suggesting that the West is responsible for spoiling the environment, among other things, and that we foreigners could learn from the simple life of the

Asians. I just smiled and thanked her. Later, my colleagues and I were like, Are you GD kidding me?!

It just occur to me that this has been going on for at a minimum of hundreds of years. Now it only stands to reason that if it is hurting the ecology there would be lots of examples to show after 100s of years. As I drive around the country side do you think it would help if this healthy looking jungle was to have signs showing how the littering over hundreds of years had hurt it.

Seems to me there is more damage brought to the country by the pollution producing vehicles and industry that Thailand never had.

Maybe we could have an NGO to look into that.

[Halion]

Littering is part of the Thai culture as longs as it is not on their front door. There is little incentive or education regarding littering. Just look at street vendor or market areas when they pack up and go home. Sukhumvit road is awash with garbage when the street vendors pack up for the night and the 7/11 outlets are one of the very few businesses that provide litter bins. It will not go away until there is legislation and enforcement.

Singapore sorted out this problem with 500$ fines for even a cigarette stub.

[marko kok prong]

went to a national park a few months ago on a sunday[big mistake-very busy], i was litterally dumbfounded,people where just throwing plastic bottles and iced coffee cups and bags everywhere,my stepson threw a bottle in a bush,and i told him to pick it up,he looked amazed,when we got to an area that had a bin i showed him to put it in a bin,but it was in one ear out the other he goes around the house dropping bottles and wrappers anywhere around the outside i have given up saying anything,a few times a week i go round picking stuff up,and as you know Thai mothers sons can do no wrong in their eyes,because he has never been taught different,my wife does not litter at least not when she is with me,the thing is you get a big fine for littering in Australia though people do still do it,but i think generally less than here and yes there are more garbage bins. Possibly more action by government and local authorities,maybe ad campaigns on tv and education that it is bad for Thailand in school would improve the situation,i think basically it is something kon thai just do not think about,its like the litter is sort of invisible to them.

[limbos]

It´s appalling for sure to see a high degree of negligence with regard to safety, drunkenness, human rights, education, the environment, what have you. I have seen plenty of examples to the contrary, however, some bordering on an OCDish standard of cleanliness and order.

I can handle that it´s probably a matter of ignorance and socialization. What kills me is the outright denial and scapegoating of any of the above.

I attended a conference for work recently -- I work for an NGO -- and one of the keynote speakers was a Thai woman who is a board member and a former provincial senator from the north. I genuinely asked her what positive qualities she has observed and would like to see in foreigners working and volunteering for our organization. She proceeded to launch into a trite, shallow comparison of the West and the East. Not only did she not answer my question, she insulted me and my colleagues by suggesting that the West is responsible for spoiling the environment, among other things, and that we foreigners could learn from the simple life of the

Asians. I just smiled and thanked her. Later, my colleagues and I were like, Are you GD kidding me?!

It just occur to me that this has been going on for at a minimum of hundreds of years. Now it only stands to reason that if it is hurting the ecology there would be lots of examples to show after 100s of years. As I drive around the country side do you think it would help if this healthy looking jungle was to have signs showing how the littering over hundreds of years had hurt it.

Seems to me there is more damage brought to the country by the pollution producing vehicles and industry that Thailand never had.

Maybe we could have an NGO to look into that.

Plastic products were not around a hundred years ago.

[samuibruno]

yes you are correct

years ago you ate off a banana leafs with bamboo utensils

both of which you just tossed away afterwards back to nature

however with the plastic and polystyrene age the jungle habit/mentality still lives on

its just inbred to throw stuff away

offer a reward and all the litter disappears

plastic bottles , glass, aluminium,steel , dont see much of that lying about for long

[Wombat6]

A possible solution to end people dumping rubbish etc. is to begin with the younger generation. Teachers should advise their students of the consequences of dumping.....ie breeding grounds for Mosquitos, Rats etc. I believe if the King asked all Thais and visitors to stop this practice, most would., and Thais should be proud of the country by cleaning it up and the Government could send a delegation to Australia to learn about the "Clean up Australia Campaign" which was introduced some years ago with great success

[limbos]

A possible solution to end people dumping rubbish etc. is to begin with the younger generation. Teachers should advise their students of the consequences of dumping.....ie breeding grounds for Mosquitos, Rats etc. I believe if the King asked all Thais and visitors to stop this practice, most would., and Thais should be proud of the country by cleaning it up and the Government could send a delegation to Australia to learn about the "Clean up Australia Campaign" which was introduced some years ago with great success

The Thai hotel association, east coast chapter, Samui, is actually doing an excellent job here, within 3 years they had bins on all public schools around the island and teachers are helping out to show the kids how to clean the school yards around the island each day. An outstanding effort by the THA and is exactly what you propagate.

This has been set up up already a few years back.

[carmine]

On the subject of littering i can tell you that tourists are currently coming back from the Anthong National Marine Park complaining of mounds of garbage piled up. Photos on their IPhones, ready to be plastered over the internet. Unbelievable. They understandably want to know why they are paying for an expensive trip to view garbage? Fair question really.

clearly to much to ask for two blokes in a boat to clear the rubbish even if its only for the busiest 14 days of the year! Oh well.....