Democracy is not just about elections: Thai editorial

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Democracy is not just about elections
The Nation

We need to give our elected representatives an incentive to favour the public interest over their own

BANGKOK: -- Election campaign posters and signboards have gone up in different areas of the city amid calls for urgent political reform and opposition to the February 2 general election.

Most of the signs belong to the Pheu Thai Party, which has been actively pushing for the election to go ahead as scheduled. Notably absent are campaign posters for the Democrat Party, which has boycotted the upcoming poll, citing an urgent need for political reform to restore public confidence in politicians and their parties.

For some, democracy is synonymous with elections, but for others it is about more than just voting. Amid growing anti-government protests in Egypt last July, US President Barack Obama told then Egyptian president Mohammed Morsi that "democracy is about more than elections".

"It is also about ensuring that the voices of all Egyptians are heard and represented by their government, including the many Egyptians demonstrating throughout the country," said Obama. His words echoed those of American political scientist and social activist Howard Zinn who, in arguing for civil disobedience, said: "Democracy is not just a counting up of votes; it is a counting up of actions."

In a representative democracy, elected MPs are supposed to represent the interest of their electorate, and also the public interest. In mature democracies, voters tend to base their choice on political and ethical values, rather than offers of rewards from community leaders. As a result, elected representatives are able to do their jobs as genuine representatives. Also, strong check-and-balance systems in mature democracies help to weed out corrupt or self-serving politicians. In many cases, such politicians are pressured by the public to leave office and they often fail to get re-elected.

Unfortunately, Thailand's political system still lacks the important qualities that make a mature democracy. Thai politicians rarely resign their seats after being caught in wrongdoing. When their legitimacy is challenged, they merely point out that they were elected - a "magical" mantra of legitimacy. Recent actions of many of our elected representatives, such as backing a controversial bill to absolve politicians convicted of corruption and serious crimes during political conflicts, led to widespread anger. In comparison, bills to raise taxes on the wealthy and set up a social safety net for poorer Thais failed to attract much interest from the same politicians.

Ideally, "democracy is government of the people, by the people, for the people", as Abraham Lincoln put it. Elected politicians should act as representatives of all the people, not just certain groups. This means they should also heed the voice of those who did not vote for them.

Given Thailand's evolving relationship between voters and politicians, our democracy needs time to become mature. Hopefully, we are slowly moving towards a time when selfish and corrupt representatives will fail to get re-elected, rejected by voters whose decisions are based on personal conscience rather than private gain.

In the meantime, we have to live with a system dominated by politicians who seem to care little about the interests of the people they are supposed to represent. If we cannot make them change their ways, we must replace them with truer representatives. Politicians need to be called to account by politically mature voters and a check-and-balance system that is stronger and free from political intervention.

-- The Nation 2014-01-02

[Yunla]

For some, democracy is synonymous with elections, but for others it is about more than just voting.

Athenian Democracy, the origin, democracy meant your duty as a citizen to attend public Debates. This later picked up as 'rule of the people' but it actually referred to your duty to engage in public sphere activities especially the Debates.

Voting, "having a vote", is a historical hand-me-down from the original Athenian Democracy concept of "having a voice." Ie. actually physically speaking in public Debates.

In other words, pre-election, or numbers of votes, do not matter at all in a true Democracy. What matters is that post-election, the people have a voice, and everybody has access to channels of open and free public Debate. And that elected representatives engage in open and free debate within government also.

Not going to happen anywhere in the world, at this rate. But that was the dream and maybe in another 1500 years it will come true.

[Mampara]

Unfortunately, Thailand's political system still lacks the important qualities that make a mature democracy.

​This is because education was and still is suppressed in Thailand.

[malathione]

For some, democracy is synonymous with elections, but for others it is about more than just voting.

Athenian Democracy, the origin, democracy meant your duty as a citizen to attend public Debates. This later picked up as 'rule of the people' but it actually referred to your duty to engage in public sphere activities especially the Debates.

Voting, "having a vote", is a historical hand-me-down from the original Athenian Democracy concept of "having a voice." Ie. actually physically speaking in public Debates.

In other words, pre-election, or numbers of votes, do not matter at all in a true Democracy. What matters is that post-election, the people have a voice, and everybody has access to channels of open and free public Debate. And that elected representatives engage in open and free debate within government also.

Not going to happen anywhere in the world, at this rate. But that was the dream and maybe in another 1500 years it will come true.

Wasn't it about voting directly for legislation rather than for people or some such? I don't recall exactly and am loathe to research but I believe the assembly was all citizens who chose to attend a session and was restricted by definition of citizenship.

[Thai at Heart]

We need to give our elected representatives an incentive to favour the public interest over their own.....

Bribe them?

[EricBerg]

Things will take time in Thailand. Other countries needed time to reach where they now are as well. One can only hope for Thailand that some new and not corrupt generation of politicians will emerge from the present hectic period. Often is a good breeding ground for new leaders.

[Yunla]

Wasn't it about voting directly for legislation rather than for people or some such? I don't recall exactly and am loathe to research but I believe the assembly was all citizens who chose to attend a session and was restricted by definition of citizenship.

Well you were born a citizen or a slave. And died as such. Rule was by oligarchs. It was not a "nice" situation at all. But the actual Democracy part, was the belief that all citizens had a solemn duty to attend public Debates, and to voice their opinions. To not attend public Debates made you an "idiot" which is our word descended from the Ancient Greek word <from wiki> idiōtēs ("person lacking professional skill", "a private citizen", "individual") which was a terrible insult because you were a private citizen, rather than a citizen who was very active in the public sphere, especially public Debate.

Debate is the essence and backbone of true democracy. You can judge a failed democracy by how little Debate is held, on a public and state level. Everything else is just trimmings and frills.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Yunla

[Thai at Heart]

Wasn't it about voting directly for legislation rather than for people or some such? I don't recall exactly and am loathe to research but I believe the assembly was all citizens who chose to attend a session and was restricted by definition of citizenship.

Well you were born a citizen or a slave. And died as such. Rule was by oligarchs. It was not a "nice" situation at all. But the actual Democracy part, was the belief that all citizens had a solemn duty to attend public Debates, and to voice their opinions. To not attend public Debates made you an "idot" which is our word descended from the Ancient Greek word idiōtēs ("person lacking professional skill", "a private citizen", "individual") which was a terrible insult because you were a private citizen, rather than a citizen who was very active in the public sphere, especially public Debate.

Debate is the essence and backbone of true democracy. You can judge a failed democracy by how little Debate is held, on a public and state level. Everything else is just trimmings and frills.

I think the fact that so many senseless laws get passed in thailand shows there is no debate.

We live with the no booze between 1 and 4 every day. I mean honestly, how does such a stupid law get written? Or how about the rider must have a helmet but not the passenger law?

The quality of laws being passed says a lot about the quality of democracy. I love to read the stories whenever there is a proposal to change the law about land ownership in thailand.

Someone says "selling the country". And that's it. Finished.

[smedly]

and a check-and-balance system that is stronger and free from political intervention.

PTP tried to weaken this very thing or at least what there is of it - and also flat out refused to recognise a ruling by a court which is exactly why we are were we are right now - the people said enough is enough

Good article by the Nation

Additionally needed

- Accountability

- No Immunity from prosecution

- Ban for life not just 5 years including family members

- Convicted criminals banned for life from politics

- Constitutional/charter changes require at least a 2/3 majority of both houses plus court approval

A new Thailand would emerge

[craigt3365]

"Democracy is not just a counting up of votes; it is a counting up of actions." Howard Zinn

I like that one. Lays it out quite well.

[Gsxrnz]

"We need to give our elected representatives an incentive to favour the public interest over their own"

That statement sums it up really.

In Thai politics (and some would say in Thai society as a whole), there is no accountability whatsoever. Blatant thieving from the public purse is not only sanctioned, it's actively encouraged - primarily because everybody is feeding from the trough and here is literally nobody who wants any form of clean up.

Politicians and public servants are given carte blanche to line their pockets. After all, that's why they seek a position of power - and writing a new Charter, a new Constitution, new laws, blah blah blah will do absolutely nothing to stop it continuing. The only ones that have the power and authority to stop it all happening are the ones that are lining their pockets. The chances of this happening are about as high as me winning the PGA Tour.

I've said it many times on TVisa, the man or woman that will eventually lead Thailand out of the political mire has not yet been born. Thailand will have to suffer through a further generation (or two) before any real progress can be made.

[selftaopath]

Only a bastardized version of democracy does not follow rule of law. Something lost here in Land of Scams/Lack of Sanctions (LOS)

[smedly]

Wasn't it about voting directly for legislation rather than for people or some such? I don't recall exactly and am loathe to research but I believe the assembly was all citizens who chose to attend a session and was restricted by definition of citizenship.

Well you were born a citizen or a slave. And died as such. Rule was by oligarchs. It was not a "nice" situation at all. But the actual Democracy part, was the belief that all citizens had a solemn duty to attend public Debates, and to voice their opinions. To not attend public Debates made you an "idot" which is our word descended from the Ancient Greek word idiōtēs ("person lacking professional skill", "a private citizen", "individual") which was a terrible insult because you were a private citizen, rather than a citizen who was very active in the public sphere, especially public Debate.

Debate is the essence and backbone of true democracy. You can judge a failed democracy by how little Debate is held, on a public and state level. Everything else is just trimmings and frills.

I think the fact that so many senseless laws get passed in thailand shows there is no debate.

We live with the no booze between 1 and 4 every day. I mean honestly, how does such a stupid law get written? Or how about the rider must have a helmet but not the passenger law?

The quality of laws being passed says a lot about the quality of democracy. I love to read the stories whenever there is a proposal to change the law about land ownership in thailand.

Someone says "selling the country". And that's it. Finished.

One of the problems here is that Thais are insecure, although they won't admit it they are totally and completely reliant on foreigners, for everything they do,

How many cars - motorbikes - electronics - or other products have they actually designed and put into manufacturing of any significance ....ZERO, we all know that Toyota is a Japanese brand, how many brands are in existence that Thais actually own ....ZERO

Their construction - power - communications - military - aviation etc would be nowhere without foreigners. They can do nothing for themselves except mess stuff up

They have been living off sex tourism for many years yet it's illegal here, ....ahem, at least a 3rd of the money they make from tourism should be going back in to improve things, instead all I see are things getting steadily worse.

Do they understand the concept of never cut off the hand that is feeding you - seems they don't

Why have S. Korea Japan Malaysia Singapore HK and soon to be perhaps Burma thrived yet Thailand has stagnated stuck in a corrupt faulty political vacuum, I believe part of it was to allow outside investment to flourish - maybe there is also a colonial history too

Thailand needs change on a massive scale

[dukebowling]

Here is a novel idea…let the elected officials finish their term...

The only way to have a mature democracy is to stop the coup d'état mentality.

[MaiChai]

The difference between my home country democracy and Thailand is that we get our taxes back in the form of free health care, unemployment and sickness benefits, public transport, etc. In Thailand these taxes get squandered and syphoned off by the government and the population get back very little of their taxes back.

[DocN]

Start with the education, get rid of the anti-defamation law, get rid of that other law, that keeps from discussing everything, enforce laws equally for all, try freedom of press for a change...yes, correct: it is not just about elections, Sherlock!

[JRSoul]

Here is a novel idea…let the elected officials finish their term...

The only way to have a mature democracy is to stop the coup d'état mentality.

The only way to stop criminals is to arrest them. Please take a look at the topic.

Edited January 2, 2014 by JRSoul

[Roadman]

Very good article and very correct. When you can agree on a lot on a thread with others that you sometimes want to growl at. Thailand governance needs a mass overhaul.

[robblok]

Start with the education, get rid of the anti-defamation law, get rid of that other law, that keeps from discussing everything, enforce laws equally for all, try freedom of press for a change...yes, correct: it is not just about elections, Sherlock!

Agree.. defamation law should be gone, and some investigative reporters digging and exposing scandals.

The problem is that there is no openness about the current government. If you don't believe it look at the rice scam. The real figures are a well guarded secret and they only come out with bad ones if they absolutely can't deny it and then still its not the truth but just what they can get away with.

But even if there is no defamation law... journalist can just get killed, life is cheap here and hits on people not uncommon. But it would be a step in the right direction.

I really don't understand that people like the democrats could not even look into the rice scam and have a true audit, its scary how unclear they can be. If you add to that that they wanted the infrastructure done outside the budget with even less checks and balances then you just know changes are needed. The rape of the countries its finances would be the biggest ever with that huge loan. (not to mention they would use it to cover up the rice scam just look at the liquidity problem of the bank paying the farmers)

[SteveB2]

Unfortunately, Thailand's political system still lacks the important qualities that make a mature democracy.

​This is because education was and still is suppressed in Thailand.

How true. Without this, popularism will reign supreme and the government's coffers will be continually trashed to fund vote buying policies.

The following echo in my mind...

"Every nation gets the government it deserves."

― Joseph de Maistre

“Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education.”

― Franklin D. Roosevelt

“Elections belong to the people. It's their decision. If they decide to turn their back on the fire and burn their behinds, then they will just have to sit on their blisters.”

― Abraham Lincoln

For a better explanation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksinomics

[fxe1200]

I think the fact that so many senseless laws get passed in thailand shows there is no debate.

We live with the no booze between 1 and 4 every day. I mean honestly, how does such a stupid law get written? Or how about the rider must have a helmet but not the passenger law?

The quality of laws being passed says a lot about the quality of democracy. I love to read the stories whenever there is a proposal to change the law about land ownership in thailand.

Someone says "selling the country". And that's it. Finished.

I favour the Mexican solution, where you could lease land for 99 years (This law was abandoned in Mexiko 1993). Then Thais would not have to worry about their land being sold out to foreigners.

[Jawnie]

I'm one who thinks corruption at all levels is one of Thailand's biggest obstacles to democracy and faith in government. Thailand continually acknowledges this, too, but little or nothing is done about it.

Corruption will never decrease or change until the country undertakes serious, sustained efforts at high-level corruption through under-cover sting operations. They work, period.

There is little doubt in my mind at enough people could be found to do this, whether in country or Thais living, studying, or working internationally.

Until this type of crime fighting is undertaken, nothing will change.

[Bignose]

The Nation is to be commended on what is one of the best editorials I have read, it is an impartial and reasoned piece that would do any publication proud. After many years of the mundane and insipid press from the UK and Australia, it is an exceptional example of what a free press should be publishing.

There have been many previous posts that have referred to the shortcoming in the Thai education system, I have no experience at all with this but I think it could raise one relevant and fair question,

Even if translated into Thai and distributed throughout the provinces, what percentage of the population would understand the points and issues contained within the article?

My point is that as long as the masses remain uneducated, or even poorly educated, they shall remain unable to appreciate the basic requirements of a democratic state. This will always leave them open to manipulation, coercion and exploitation, something we have seen openly practiced by both sides of the political fence. Any change to alter the status quo would not be achievable in mere years, this would require a generational commitment with bipartisan approval, does anyone in this forum believe this is possible?

The present system is riddled with an intelligent, well educated and wealthy elite. They know how the system works and are well versed in how to exploit it. They are well advised with ample finances to grease wheels, cultivate contacts and allegiances. The one thing they do not have is the social conscience that stops them from abusing their position of trust, they have no conscience or sense of responsibility when it comes to fulfilling their duties and obligations to the people who voted for them, only a cynical indifference to the people they are meant to serve.

Will they willingly dismantle and rebuild the system they have taken years to corrupt? I think not as they are reaping the benefits from that they have sowed. Instead I believe we may be dependent on a shorter term solution, where a temporary government with uniforms and loyal only to the Monarch, would ensure the present pillage is stymied and that the economy can be preserved until a more responsible government can take the helm.

[Issangeorge]

I just read that over 28 constituencies have no registered candidates, that's more than five percent of the total 500 MPs, thus Parliament cannot convene, so what's the point of spending the money on an election?

Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Costas2008]

To uphold Democracy....or the shambles of the word Democracy.

Used from everybody....to satisfy their own interests!

[bigbamboo]

"Democracy is not just a counting up of votes; it is a counting up of actions." Howard Zinn

I like that one. Lays it out quite well.

"Democracy is about counting the cash." Robert Mugabe.

[A1Str8]

Of course. The point of elections is to give people the illusion that they have control over things and their vote, therefore opinion matters. Too bad it doesn't. If it could change anything and mattered it would be illegal. As for the 500MPs and others, it doesn't matter either. It's just a show but at the end the one who is willing to be the next puppet of the owners of the country is going to be elected.

[Scamper]

This is a splendid article. Indeed, democracy is different things to different people. For some, it is an event that takes place in one day every four years. For others, it is a daily expression and a daily holding to accountability. If this country is to develop - in the words of this editorial - into a mature democracy, then all the incentives to produce the opposite must be addressed by society in forums designed to bring that about peacefully and through open dialogue for the good of all.

[kikoman]

In Bangkok, 167 constituency candidates have registered from 23 parties! The (68) other provinces in Thailand all favor holding an election, including the other (6) provinces in the South,

Democracy is the "Majority" voters votes dictate who is to lead Thailand after the next election.

This is based on the "one person one-vote", which is the basic principle of "Political Equality" recognized in the international community of democracies.

Should an election be rejected for the 35 million Thai's that cast votes in the 2011 Election because * (8) Southern provinces are forcefully interfering with the citizens to intimidate those voters from exercising their right to vote?

If Suthep count of (6) Million person protester attended his rally in Bangkok, not the few 100,000 estimated by the media, and he has a huge backing in the other provinces, if Thai's are in fact upset with "corruption" and corruption has been a problem in Thailand decades prior to the 2001 election of Thaksin Shinawatra. Any and all forms of corruption must be included in these reforms, including corruption and nepotism in the country that favor the rich.

It is very important to the continuation of Democracy in Thailand that the vote must be held despite the objections of the (8) provinces, because if Suthep and the Democrats are successful in stopping the wish of the majority of the country from holding an election based on the Royal decree and the Thai constitution it would spell the end of participatory democracy in Thailand, if they can do it any other group will be able to repeat the process!

Cheers

Edited January 2, 2014 by kikoman

[farang000999]

The PTP does not recognize the courts and the party is controlled by a terrorist/criminal from overseas. The PTP is guilty of massive fraud and corruption.

I think massive reform is necessary before an election and that this reform must include important steps to prevent the terrorist/criminal from controlling any political parties in the country.