Thailand's police chief admits 'men in black' are police

[Thait Spot]

The police are a disgrace and they are employees of Thaksin. The leaders should be arrested and charged with murder for current deaths and 2010 murders.

Based on what evidence? But just as you don't believe in democracy, maybe you don't believe in due process either.

Based on what Chalerm himself said

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[diceq]

Well, seeing as how YOU found that article, what do you want me to say? There is more than one source of information you know. Go look.

You can comment on what I just said, or you can ignore it. Up to you.

I've told you twice already that I cannot find the quote of what he said. And I don't really need to either, because it is pretty apparent that two incidents were mixed up.

The only mix up or confusion is on your part currently. The more you post, the more stupid you look.

Research with an open mind, analyze the information to hand, and don't ignore the parts that don't suit your agenda or beliefs. Easy.

Analyze what? For the fourth time, I did not find the information that you said was a quick google search away. If it is so easy to find, why don't you post it here instead of spending time on telling me how easy it is.

Edited January 2, 2014 by diceq

[diceq]

Based on what Chalerm himself said

And what exactly did he say?

[Tatsujin]

How is it you can read the same information as everyone else, yet you ignore half of it?

Read it again. He refers to the Police on the rooftop AND those smashing vehicles. Both of which were previously claimed to be protestors dressed in stolen uniforms.

What don't you get? Or are you being deliberately obtuse?

I miss read that. I've edited my post. I wasn't referring to the police chief but Chalerm.

Well Chalerm and the Police Chief aren't the only ones to have made statements about the "men in black", there are many other sources of information aside from those already mentioned here.

Anyways, you've worn me down, I'm gonna leave this alone now.

Remember ... "There's none so blind as those who won't see" ...

[Netizen]

Well, seeing as how YOU found that article, what do you want me to say? There is more than one source of information you know. Go look.

You can comment on what I just said, or you can ignore it. Up to you.

I've told you twice already that I cannot find the quote of what he said. And I don't really need to either, because it is pretty apparent that two incidents were mixed up.

Do you receive payment from Thaksin or his stooges for your rabid support?

[tingtongteesood]

What attempts to hide their presence? Crouching behind a wall in an elevated position?

When people are injured or especially if there are deaths involved, there is usually a need for officials to answer for the actions of police, in Europe or anywhere else, if the police are "battling" protesters. Even in Syria. I guess we don't agree on this, and never will.

The dead police was also crouching. Maybe this is a police tactic because they are afraid to get shot to death by violent fascist yellowshirts, like what indeed happen that day.

I agree with you that there is a need to explain what happen, like how the protesters and the police officer were killed. But to answer some absurd conspiracy theories about riot police on a rooftop is not one of them.

As opposed to those lovely democratic red shirts ? ( This is sarcasm for those who don't get it )

[penwithcris]

If governments were asked to resign every time a policeman accidentally or deliberately shot another individual the World would be devoid of governance.

Hardly a week goes by without some 'trigger happy' policeman shooting,often totally innocent, people.

I cannot see Yingluck's government wanting to lose the moral high ground by ordering one policeman to kill another.

Every government around the World has specially trained forces to call on at times of extreme disorder. There is no reason why Thailand should be different

Of course all this could be avoided if Suthep would only pack up his 'soapbox' and stop inciting violence.

An election is pending. Let him put his X like everyone else.

[diceq]

Well Chalerm and the Police Chief aren't the only ones to have made statements about the "men in black", there are many other sources of information aside from those already mentioned here.

Anyways, you've worn me down, I'm gonna leave this alone now.

Remember ... "There's none so blind as those who won't see" ...

See what? You refuse to provide me with the evidence that you say is so easy to find. No wonder you don't want to carry on the discussion.

[smedly]

This is not looking good for Chalerm (or Yingluck for that matter)

Didn't Charlerm just make a statement earlier today or yesterday stating that they were not police

The garbage this government churns out on a daily basis is quite shocking - next they'll be blaming the protestors for Government debt and a failed rice scheme

[Thait Spot]

Based on what Chalerm himself said

And what exactly did he say?

He said that the Men in Black during the 2010 riots were police.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[diceq]

You're the one coming up with the conspiracy theories. I'm just asking what proof you have for them.

And what conspiracy theory is that? Are you referring to the police seemed to have been shot by a fascist yellowshirt? If so, I suggest you look up the definition of the word conspiracy. If you claim that the police were behind the shooting, that would make you the conspiracy theorist. And it's a nutty conspiracy theory at that.

[Valentine]

This is not looking good for Chalerm (or Yingluck for that matter)

Didn't Charlerm just make a statement earlier today or yesterday stating that they were not police

The garbage this government churns out on a daily basis is quite shocking - next they'll be blaming the protestors for Government debt and a failed rice scheme

They could possibly use the protests as an excuse not to pay the farmers considering they were forced onto being a caretaker government with no authority to spend.

[diceq]

As opposed to those lovely democratic red shirts ? ( This is sarcasm for those who don't get it )

I haven't heard any redshirt call for a military coup or to overthrow any democratically elected governments, have you? Just because some redshirts use violence does not make them undemocratic.

[diceq]

You don't know?? Adul has admitted that they were! Or do you consider that a conspiracy theory? Maybe he was misquoted.

Why is it "another discussion"? Because it doesn't fit your own conspiracy theories?

What conspiracy theories would that be? I suggest you look up the definition of the word. You don't like when I point out that you are a conspiracy theorist do you? Well sorry but you are. And it's an extremely nonsensical conspiracy theory as well.

No, I simply missed that part that he admitted to both incidents as I was busy debating the other.

Edited January 2, 2014 by diceq

[smedly]

I think we all knew is was police on the roof as the simple fact is the building was secure and no way for protestors or anyone to get up there without passing through the security around the building

A more interesting fact for me is the company he was in during this admission

[Tatsujin]

Well Chalerm and the Police Chief aren't the only ones to have made statements about the "men in black", there are many other sources of information aside from those already mentioned here.

Anyways, you've worn me down, I'm gonna leave this alone now.

Remember ... "There's none so blind as those who won't see" ...

See what? You refuse to provide me with the evidence that you say is so easy to find. No wonder you don't want to carry on the discussion.

Damn, you're lazy AND blind. Here's a couple it took me 10 seconds to find online:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Men-in-black-are-policemen-Chalerm-claims-30171725.html

http://news.voicetv.co.th/in-english/25421.html

http://pcij.org/blog/2013/02/04/men-in-black-fire-upon-4-cars-of-thai-tv-station-in-bangkok

Am sure you can find the rest if you try just a little bit harder to actually find information instead of simply dismissing or criticising others for spouting conspiracy theories whilst denying reality yourself.

[inzman]

So dice, what you are saying is that you hate the red shirts then. By your own definition.

[hellodolly]

Pol Gen Adul admitted that “men in black” are police and vowed to investigate and bring them to justice procedure

.

It just gets funnier and funnier by the day. the next thing you know he will say he is going to transfer them to another position.

[diceq]

dam_n, you're lazy AND blind. Here's a couple it took me 10 seconds to find online:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Men-in-black-are-policemen-Chalerm-claims-30171725.html

http://news.voicetv.co.th/in-english/25421.html

http://pcij.org/blog/2013/02/04/men-in-black-fire-upon-4-cars-of-thai-tv-station-in-bangkok

Am sure you can find the rest if you try just a little bit harder to actually find information instead of simply dismissing or criticising others for spouting conspiracy theories whilst denying reality yourself.

That I also found. But what I asked for was the claim that Chalerm denied that the people on the roof were police. But maybe you misunderstood me. What I was referring to was that Chalerm might have been commenting on the bashing of the truck when he made the statement he did.

[Tatsujin]

Pol Gen Adul admitted that “men in black” are police and vowed to investigate and bring them to justice procedure

.

It just gets funnier and funnier by the day. the next thing you know he will say he is going to transfer them to another position.

Indeed, one of those famous "inactive" posts that they all get sent to when they've been bad boys, i.e. got caught out at something and they can't cover it up any longer.

[Tatsujin]

dam_n, you're lazy AND blind. Here's a couple it took me 10 seconds to find online:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Men-in-black-are-policemen-Chalerm-claims-30171725.html

http://news.voicetv.co.th/in-english/25421.html

http://pcij.org/blog/2013/02/04/men-in-black-fire-upon-4-cars-of-thai-tv-station-in-bangkok

Am sure you can find the rest if you try just a little bit harder to actually find information instead of simply dismissing or criticising others for spouting conspiracy theories whilst denying reality yourself.

That I also found. But what I asked for was the claim that Chalerm denied that the people on the roof were police. But maybe you misunderstood me. What I was referring to was that Chalerm might have been commenting on the bashing of the truck when he made the statement he did.

Nice backtracking, but I'm not the one that is confused and I'm not misunderstanding anything . . .

[diceq]

What were the riots on 2010 all about then? Enlighten me . . . was not holding Bangkok hostage for months undemocratic? Oh wait, in your blinkered world, the red side can do no wrong . . . really, you're blind, stupid AND gullible.

No, protesting and "holding a city hostage" is not undemocratic. To do so to try to incite a coup that overthrows a democratically elected government is. Do you even know what democracy means?

[diceq]

So dice, what you are saying is that you hate the red shirts then. By your own definition.

No, obviously not since the redshirts do not support any dictator. The current government, no matter how flawed in your opinion, was democratically elected. That is an indisputable fact.

[Emptyset]

dam_n, you're lazy AND blind. Here's a couple it took me 10 seconds to find online:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Men-in-black-are-policemen-Chalerm-claims-30171725.html

http://news.voicetv.co.th/in-english/25421.html

http://pcij.org/blog/2013/02/04/men-in-black-fire-upon-4-cars-of-thai-tv-station-in-bangkok

Am sure you can find the rest if you try just a little bit harder to actually find information instead of simply dismissing or criticising others for spouting conspiracy theories whilst denying reality yourself.

That I also found. But what I asked for was the claim that Chalerm denied that the people on the roof were police. But maybe you misunderstood me. What I was referring to was that Chalerm might have been commenting on the bashing of the truck when he made the statement he did.

Nice backtracking, but I'm not the one that is confused and I'm not misunderstanding anything . . .

You are badly misunderstanding Chalerm's intentions if you take his remarks to be an indication of the truth. Not saying you are, lol, but I don't get why people keep bringing up these remarks all the time if they don't believe them.

[diceq]

Nice backtracking, but I'm not the one that is confused and I'm not misunderstanding anything . . .

I thought maybe you were another user. But just checked the history. This is what you said:

it's extraordinary simply because they had denied originally that they WERE Police

I've been asking you for proof of that claim ever since.

[tingtongteesood]

My personal thoughts.

These police were there to incite a violent confrontation. The police were wearing bullet proof vests, the unlucky officer was shot in the side with no protection. So could have been a provocateur situation by Chalerm on Thaksin's orders that went horribly wrong. If this government gets ousted (which they certainly will) I suspect Chalerm won't be hanging around.

Nice conspiracy theory. There is only one little problem with it. The current government is trying very hard not to incite violence to not give the military a justification to carry out another coup. This is painfully obvious when you see the complete lack of police response when the fascists occupy government buildings. How do you think any police force in Europe or U.S would react if a similar incident would occur?

The current government is trying hard to appear not to incite unrest as Yingluck doesn't want to have murder charges against her, PT set the precedent in their thwarted efforts to make the Dems agree to the bullshit amnesty and it must apply to her too, or else the world will see the hypocrisy of the government clearly. Also unlike 2010 they have a power of position and they want to try and keep hold of it so this time a coup is not in their interests. Also the protestors are trying ( for the most part ) very hard not to give the government an excuse to be violent, so give them some credit. In 2010 the red shirts committed violent acts at will, anything they could to cause unrest and make The Dems step down. The 'men in black' were on the reds side for sure.

The current government has a lot to gain from violence actually, as long as they can deny all involvement. They can scare the protestors away with hit and run attacks ( same as the reds did in 2010 ) and discredit them with sacrificial lambs ( same as the reds very probably did in at least 1 documented case, depends how you view the video which I won't link to as it is rather graphic ).

It is my belief that is what happened here, the government just thought they wouldn't get caught, but they did ! The police have stirred up the protestors on orders from the government handed down to the police chief. Did you hear what they were shouting at the protestors at government house over the loud speakers ? Very VERY rude...But people only remember the violence, not why it happened and who instigated it, and since the government is the government, regardless of whether they are good or bad, the international community will side with them as long as they can keep the truth suppressed and get people to read the government propaganda instead.

As for ''fascists'' - if they really are this rather unsavoury lable you have chosen to give them - I would rather have honest fascists working in the interests off the country than criminal whatever Thaksin, Chalerm and the rest of the Mafia family are working in the interests of a fugitive...

[diceq]

My personal thoughts.

These police were there to incite a violent confrontation. The police were wearing bullet proof vests, the unlucky officer was shot in the side with no protection. So could have been a provocateur situation by Chalerm on Thaksin's orders that went horribly wrong. If this government gets ousted (which they certainly will) I suspect Chalerm won't be hanging around.

Nice conspiracy theory. There is only one little problem with it. The current government is trying very hard not to incite violence to not give the military a justification to carry out another coup. This is painfully obvious when you see the complete lack of police response when the fascists occupy government buildings. How do you think any police force in Europe or U.S would react if a similar incident would occur?

The current government is trying hard to appear not to incite unrest as Yingluck doesn't want to have murder charges against her, PT set the precedent in their thwarted efforts to make the Dems agree to the bullshit amnesty and it must apply to her too, or else the world will see the hypocrisy of the government clearly. Also unlike 2010 they have a power of position and they want to try and keep hold of it so this time a coup is not in their interests. Also the protestors are trying ( for the most part ) very hard not to give the government an excuse to be violent, so give them some credit. In 2010 the red shirts committed violent acts at will, anything they could to cause unrest and make The Dems step down. The 'men in black' were on the reds side for sure.

The current government has a lot to gain from violence actually, as long as they can deny all involvement. They can scare the protestors away with hit and run attacks ( same as the reds did in 2010 ) and discredit them with sacrificial lambs ( same as the reds very probably did in at least 1 documented case, depends how you view the video which I won't link to as it is rather graphic ).

It is my belief that is what happened here, the government just thought they wouldn't get caught, but they did ! The police have stirred up the protestors on orders from the government handed down to the police chief. Did you hear what they were shouting at the protestors at government house over the loud speakers ? Very VERY rude...But people only remember the violence, not why it happened and who instigated it, and since the government is the government, regardless of whether they are good or bad, the international community will side with them as long as they can keep the truth suppressed and get people to read the government propaganda instead.

As for ''fascists'' - if they really are this rather unsavoury lable you have chosen to give them - I would rather have honest fascists working in the interests off the country than criminal whatever Thaksin, Chalerm and the rest of the Mafia family are working in the interests of a fugitive...

Well nice of you to admit that you are fascist. At least you are not a hypocrite.

What happened in 2010 is besides the point though. Using violence against a dictatorship to overthrow it is warranted. It's a view shared by most western governments. But your theory fails to explain why the current government would benefit from violence today.

And you claim that rude words were spoken over an intercom, then the riots started, is that correct?

[Tatsujin]

Nice backtracking, but I'm not the one that is confused and I'm not misunderstanding anything . . .

I thought maybe you were another user. But just checked the history. This is what you said:

it's extraordinary simply because they had denied originally that they WERE Police

I've been asking you for proof of that claim ever since.

OK, try this (other sources are available on a website we can't quote here):

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/693070-protesters-demand-thai-govt-explanation-of-shootings/

There has been no clarification but a rejection by Metropolitan Police Chief Karonwit Thoopkrachang saying that the men in black were third parties, not police officers or civilians (siding with the government), said Mr Akanat.

So, just to be sure you understand diceq, the Metropolitan Police Chief Karonwit Thoopkrachang said they were not Police. Clear now? Or are you going to reject this also?

As I said before, you really need to get your own information from multiple sources, read between the lines a little, connect the dots, and you'll see what's really going on here. It's not that hard if you have an open mind.

[falangadang]

So the shot victim cop was shot by other cops who were installed upon a roof?

<deleted>! .... I think the mysterious "black shirt" explanation would have been more plausible!

If anyone of my fellow TV members "get this" please let me know how its meant to make any sense!

[diceq]

OK, try this (other sources are available on a website we can't quote here):

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/693070-protesters-demand-thai-govt-explanation-of-shootings/

There has been no clarification but a rejection by Metropolitan Police Chief Karonwit Thoopkrachang saying that the men in black were third parties, not police officers or civilians (siding with the government), said Mr Akanat.

So, just to be sure you understand diceq, the Metropolitan Police Chief Karonwit Thoopkrachang said they were not Police. Clear now? Or are you going to reject this also?

As I said before, you really need to get your own information from multiple sources, read between the lines a little, connect the dots, and you'll see what's really going on here. It's not that hard if you have an open mind.

You said that Chalerm denied it. But now you are claiming it was the police? Who's backtracking here?

The article goes on to say:

He also called on caretaker Labour Minister Chalerm Yubumrung to explain the presence of men in black on the rooftop of the Labour Ministry...

Which make it seem like the denial by the police was referring to the bashing of the pick-up, not the men on the roof. It is not entirely clear, which seems to be the norm for most sources in this thread. I am not sure if it's just bad reporting or intentional.

In either case, you shouldn't blame the government for something that the police says. If Chalerm did in fact say what you initially claimed, it's reasonable to assume he did so from the erroneous information he got from the police.

Edited January 2, 2014 by diceq