Some interesting statistics about Brits retiring to LOS

[Beetlejuice]

These Western perspectives of ex-pats and Thailand really irritate me. They always seem to represent the loser sex-pats located in the red light areas giving an impression that most Westerners are only here for the seedier side of life and the old fable that Thailand is the world’s biggest brothel.

Why does not the Western media come up here to Chiang Mai and produce a documentary about me or others like me who live normal lifestyles, having lived here for 30 years, my wife, my kids, the locals in my area showing the good scenic areas of Thailand and of those successful ex-pats living normally as families within the Thai communities.

Pattaya is a cease pit and by no means represents the character of Thailand as a whole, that’s like showing the red light districts of Sydney, Australia or in Amsterdam, Holland or Hamburg in Germany as a depiction of those countries.

Total misguided crap in my opinion, typical of what the Western viewing audiences expect to see about Thailand, a completely misleading one-sided demeaning view of the country.

Agree with almost all of it except the Pattaya being a cesspit part.

I don't live in Pattaya and would not choose to but it is not as bad a place as it's painted, in my experience.

I've been to Pattaya for a welcome break from the provinces, much as I like to visit Bangkok for the same reason.

You don't have to engage with the seedier aspects of either town (no more than you have to in any of the world's cities).

If you like "people-watching" and enjoy being amused, inspired, shocked and (dare I say it?) pleasantly surprised by one's fellow beings, there's few places as potentially enthralling.

I know many expats who do live in Pattaya and who do not immerse themselves in the "seedier" (whatever that even means - to each it's different).

There are bad'ns and good'ns in every society.

Pattaya cannot lay claim to be any different.

Each to his own, anyway (within generally accepted limits).

Good post though. Well said, Beetlejuice.

If you ever visit Chiang Mai in the future I would enjoy to meet you and show you a complete opposite side to all that is shown in that video.

My many ex-pat friends are all long timers here and live in proper houses with their Thai wives, families and have pets, have cars, just like back in our own countries, not a brothel, beerbar or sad loser ex-pat to be seen unless especially going out of our way to find them and as I said; why not make a documentary regarding the successful aspects of ex-pat life here?

Pattaya is a place were many sad old has been farangs ill equipped financially plonk themselves and often will become a burden to themselves and problematic to the area as was correctly described in the documentary. The problem is that these types of documentaries try to portray these losers as a generalisation of what constitutes a Thailand ex-pat and this is what irritates me. Perhaps I should create my own documentary and upload it onto Utube.

[SebD]

These Western perspectives of ex-pats and Thailand really irritate me. They always seem to represent the loser sex-pats located in the red light areas giving an impression that most Westerners are only here for the seedier side of life and the old fable that Thailand is the world’s biggest brothel.

Why does not the Western media come up here to Chiang Mai and produce a documentary about me or others like me who live normal lifestyles, having lived here for 30 years, my wife, my kids, the locals in my area showing the good scenic areas of Thailand and of those successful ex-pats living normally as families within the Thai communities.

Pattaya is a cease pit and by no means represents the character of Thailand as a whole, that’s like showing the red light districts of Sydney, Australia or in Amsterdam, Holland or Hamburg in Germany as a depiction of those countries.

Total misguided crap in my opinion, typical of what the Western viewing audiences expect to see about Thailand, a completely misleading one-sided demeaning view of the country.

Agree with almost all of it except the Pattaya being a cesspit part.

I don't live in Pattaya and would not choose to but it is not as bad a place as it's painted, in my experience.

I've been to Pattaya for a welcome break from the provinces, much as I like to visit Bangkok for the same reason.

You don't have to engage with the seedier aspects of either town (no more than you have to in any of the world's cities).

If you like "people-watching" and enjoy being amused, inspired, shocked and (dare I say it?) pleasantly surprised by one's fellow beings, there's few places as potentially enthralling.

I know many expats who do live in Pattaya and who do not immerse themselves in the "seedier" (whatever that even means - to each it's different).

There are bad'ns and good'ns in every society.

Pattaya cannot lay claim to be any different.

Each to his own, anyway (within generally accepted limits).

Good post though. Well said, Beetlejuice.

If you ever visit Chiang Mai in the future I would enjoy to meet you and show you a complete opposite side to all that is shown in that video.

My many ex-pat friends are all long timers here and live in proper houses with their Thai wives, families and have pets, have cars, just like back in our own countries, not a brothel, beerbar or sad loser ex-pat to be seen unless especially going out of our way to find them and as I said; why not make a documentary regarding the successful aspects of ex-pat life here?

Pattaya is a place were many sad old has been farangs ill equipped financially plonk themselves and often will become a burden to themselves and problematic to the area as was correctly described in the documentary. The problem is that these types of documentaries try to portray these losers as a generalisation of what constitutes a Thailand ex-pat and this is what irritates me. Perhaps I should create my own documentary and upload it onto Utube.

It's not possible to disagree with you as what you say is, broadly, true.

I've visited Chiang Mai and liked it very much. Met a few good ex-pats whilst I was there. I have good ex-pat friends in Pattaya, also, who do not indulge in the lurid aspects of the city (and a few who sometimes do - but that doesn't make them a bad person/s per se). Different strokes is all and so long as no-one is hurt and all are willing participants, who am I to judge (glass-houses and all that).

I agree wholeheartedly that it would be wonderfully refreshing to see an "expose" of the majority of ex-pats in LOS (rather than always concentrating on the minority as these programmes tend to). But that wouldn't sell many newspapers or put many bums-on-seats, I suppose. Shame though.

Next time I'm heading to CM I'll drop you a PM. Maybe share a cold one with our partners (just one or two for me though, these days. Any hell-raising I might have once taken part in are rather behind me).

[britmaveric]

Ch4 rubbish. Pattaya is no worse or better than anywhere in Thailand if the facts be known. Sure if you want to piss your life away boozing and whoring then you certainly will go down the drain. I've seen same sorts in CM, Udon, Phuket, Bangkok ect. Life is all about moderation and if you are sensible you can retire nicely in Pattaya and enjoy a good life. The problem is the same muppets who come here would no doubt ruin themselves back in blighty.

[MAJIC]

There arises a question whether it is worth waiting until our sunset/twilight years to fulfill our dreams.

Do it while you are fit enough,and you still can,it's too late when you have Arthritus,or,Diabetis,or some other major illness.I would think the majority are still fit and active at 55,and should have a good few years left in them,to take up their place in the Sun,which most have earned,with a lifetimes work,sweat and tears.

[SebD]

You make your own bed, and you have to sleep in it.

"Where ever you go, there you are"

They asked early in the doco of more than one retiree whether they thought they had made the right decision on moving to Thailand. Their answer, it's better than sitting in a bedset in the UK waiting to die. We all face the end of days. Better in a warm climate with friendly people than in a cold, dang hellhole where no one cares about you. It's better to go out with a bang as apposed to going out with a whimper.

"Where ever you go, there you are"

Nice 1.

Must remember that

[celso]

Still don't see why any normal (not alcoholic/sexpat) retiree would choose to settle in Pattaya over Bangkok.

I mean, look at it.

Edited January 3, 2014 by celso

[britmaveric]

^I agree Bangkok is a cesspool.

[SebD]

Still don't see why any normal (not alcoholic/sexpat) retiree would choose to settle in Pattaya over Bangkok.

I mean, look at it.

Well, there's the beaches and the countryside, for two.

Easy to navigate around without a packed skytrain or gridlocked taxi for another two.

There's four reasons.

Eating out is at least as eclectic and far, far, cheaper than Bangers (there's five).

Oh... and you'll probably bump into far more hypocrites friends than you could have imagined you would, from BKK, doing just the same as you.

Maybe you should try it.

Edited January 3, 2014 by SebD

[nonthaburial]

These Western perspectives of ex-pats and Thailand really irritate me. They always seem to represent the loser sex-pats located in the red light areas giving an impression that most Westerners are only here for the seedier side of life and the old fable that Thailand is the worlds biggest brothel.

Why does not the Western media come up here to Chiang Mai and produce a documentary about me or others like me who live normal lifestyles, having lived here for 30 years, my wife, my kids, the locals in my area showing the good scenic areas of Thailand and of those successful ex-pats living normally as families within the Thai communities.

Pattaya is a cease pit and by no means represents the character of Thailand as a whole, thats like showing the red light districts of Sydney, Australia or in Amsterdam, Holland or Hamburg in Germany as a depiction of those countries.

Total misguided crap in my opinion, typical of what the Western viewing audiences expect to see about Thailand, a completely misleading one-sided demeaning view of the country.

Beetlejuice methinks you have lost the plot a little, of course there are many such as yourself, but that's the point, you are not sensational news. It's the alcoholics expat losers in a "seedy" location that are, hence the news clip.

Do I agree with this news reporting, it doesn't matter, but if I was back in the UK watching that, and I recognized my father, uncle, or even my brother bring interviewed, as these guys were, I would be very embarrassed and possibly ashamed.

As for the scouser at the end, what a very sad story, at least he admitted that he probably had mental issues, but to break down as he did was heart wrenching to watch. The others interviewed apart from the hospital patient, struck me as allowing the alcohol to control their tongues. The whole program struck me as being open and, inquisitive but it was the "dead men walking" aspect that soured it slightly

[i claudius]

I don't think most retirees come to Pattaya because of sex. They choose Pattaya, because we have large expat population,

<deleted>! Of course the primary reason that most tourists visit that disgusting filthy town whose name none of them can pronounce correctly is for the enormous sex trade market. You can find large ex-pat communities in many places in Thailand: Samui, Phuket (not much different than Pattaya) Chaing Mai, etc. Have those towns seen the same increase in diseased alcoholic British retirees at the local hospitals as has Pattaya? I would imagine that all those places have seen increases but not as high as in Pattaya. The difference between these towns is not the size of the ex-pat populations nor the availability of western food. Crikey, check out the Chiang Mai forum to see an ex-pat population obsessed with the availability of western food including that horrid combination of food served up for breakfast in the UK.

Yum!

I am sorry to say that a breakfast like this is disgusting ,---------Where is the black pudding?

[Greer]

I thought the video report was fairly illuminating. As an American, I don't see too many of my fellow countrymen, here, in Thailand. Most elderly Americans opting to retire outside the US do so in Mexico or Costa Rica. So, I've always wondered what the typical expat retiree was like. Thanks to that video, I now have a pretty clear image of what most of the British that come to Thailand are like. Nice to see the reality beneath some of these avatars on TV.

I live in Bangkok, and I honestly think the report was not just poorly researched (a couple of blokes in pubs), but also painted a wrong picture of many retirees - it did portray them in the way popular with fly-in-go-to-the-pub-fly-out jurnalism though...as it sells stories - either to the newspapers, or to the networks, or even to the stations, senior News Editor....

Pattaya is nowadays more like being in a warm version of Russia than Britain anyway - increasingly signage is in Cyrillic (or even Chinese), more than English.

Not sure what the OP's problem with the first couple of posts were - they were definitely not having a go at him, but at the report - a viewpoint with which I must agree.

In reality it's a "comfort food" style fluff report - designed to pander to the popular myth of retirees being sex tourists and down-and-out's - yes there are obviously some, but that is an insult to the majority.

I am not a retiree and came here over 20 years ago to work - my family is Thai and this is my home.

[Greer]

The idea behind the story is good: export the oldies, cheaper than having them at home and more fun for them in the sun. They spoiled the story with the sex/booze angle, but that was to be expected.

The Australian govt is so stingy it won't even pay the pension ( to those eligible for it at home) outside Australia ( except for a few countries, not including Thailand)

Typical scumbag Australian government thieves...

[Greer]

I thought the video report was fairly illuminating. As an American, I don't see too many of my fellow countrymen, here, in Thailand. Most elderly Americans opting to retire outside the US do so in Mexico or Costa Rica. So, I've always wondered what the typical expat retiree was like. Thanks to that video, I now have a pretty clear image of what most of the British that come to Thailand are like. Nice to see the reality beneath some of these avatars on TV.

Im not a retiree, but I do come to pattaya for roughly 75 days every year to party and have sex - and I'm an American. I hate western women. Most single women in my age bracket are only looking for male models/actors or someone with a net worth of well over 10 million, although that may be due to my level of standards. But I mostly come to Thailand for two reasons, I love asian girls and its cheaper than the Philippines... while you can get great prices from women south of the US Border, I guarantee that none of those women will be asian!

Plenty of single Western guys going with plenty of single Western girls and not a modelling contract or 10 million bucks anywhere in sight.

If you think you need that stuff to get women, there's no hope for you and you'd be better off moving to Pattaya to pay for it for the rest of your life.

Good luck

Aha...another poor misguided soul who thinks that he doesn't pay for sex. What about the cost of the meal, the shows, the drinks, the gifts....?

I must admit that I don't make use of the "services" on offer in the girlie bars here in Thailand (or anywhere), but I know people who do, and they have a lot more spare cash left at the end of the month than we married types I can tell you!

[watso63]

Crap "report" if you can call it that. Film a few drunken old codgers and dreggs of society then create an image of the stereotypical British Expat living it large in an exciting and vibrant, adult orientated playground.

The worst part of the report though was the suggestion that British people could retire here on a state pension....currently £110.15/week or approx 5,500 Thb. No way in a million years, so please Channel 4, try not to put that idea into anyones' head...doh, too late! The worst cases happen when they come with a state pension and all their savings.....the savings can dwindle very quickly and then bang....the smack in the face of harsh reality soon kicks in....and those lovely ladeeeeees don't want to know you anymore.....why not report that Channel 4...as a bit of a warning?

The best way is to have bottomless pits of money (wishful thinking for most of us ) or to have enough savings, a state pension with another kind of pension and other sources of income then life here can be great (fantastic for me at 50 years old...still got a state pension to top me up in 16 years time...unless some <deleted> politicians change the rules)

A lot more to Thailand than just Pattaya etc, but it is a fun place and I have a holiday condo there to visit when I want from my home in Surin.

My god...some retired Brits have common sense and planned a sensible retirement? Now that is simply "Not Newsworthy" is it? ;-)

[Greer]

Anyone posting here saying this report is sensationalising or exaggerating the prevalence of alcoholism, violence and old men seeking young hookers for sex is deluded. Look at the Pattaya daily newspapers, the evidence speaks for itself. It's a soulless place where lost old souls find lost young souls and lose their souls in the bottom of a bottle. I pity the guys that end up here, let alone die here. No Thai gives a hoot about any farang living in that hell hole, and to die being a burden to a prostitute you have nothing in common with or in a hospital where they can't wait for you to go so they can give the bed to a Thai person is a horrible way to end up.

You need to read up some of the recent reports about the treatment of patients in many of the NHS asylums, sorry, I mean "hospitals" in the UK.

Having lived here in Thailand a long time, I have sometimes naturally had to visit a hospital from time to time (when my kids were born, various times with my wife, and even once or twice for myself), and I can tell you that the level and quality of care easily outranks that in most hospitals I have visited in Australia or the UK. Yes, its not free, but its also not expensive.

Do you seriously think that anyone working in one of the NHS Hospitals in the UK gives a damn about the patients? After the reports I have been reading, it certainly doesn't appear to be the case at many of those institutions.

As for the people who live in Pattaya and other locations in the country, the majority came for the much better lifestyle they can have here, the weather, which for 99% of the year is warm (except in Chiang Mai of course), and the lower cost of living. There is also a very real sense of friendship among the expat community, and many nationalities (Thai included) do spend time together socially, so the report is quite definitely selective at best.

[phutoie2]

I await Beetlejuice's YouTube vid. Living in a proper house with a TW, family, cars, and pets.

Will make for fascinating TV. Surprised the BBC have not assembled a team to give us all the alternative side of living here in Thailand.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Konini]

I don't think most retirees come to Pattaya because of sex. They choose Pattaya, because we have large expat population,

<deleted>! Of course the primary reason that most tourists visit that disgusting filthy town whose name none of them can pronounce correctly is for the enormous sex trade market. You can find large ex-pat communities in many places in Thailand: Samui, Phuket (not much different than Pattaya) Chaing Mai, etc. Have those towns seen the same increase in diseased alcoholic British retirees at the local hospitals as has Pattaya? I would imagine that all those places have seen increases but not as high as in Pattaya. The difference between these towns is not the size of the ex-pat populations nor the availability of western food. Crikey, check out the Chiang Mai forum to see an ex-pat population obsessed with the availability of western food including that horrid combination of food served up for breakfast in the UK.

All in all I found the piece to be a decent report of the lack of care available to blue-collar retirees in the UK, the centrality of the sex trade in Pattaya, and the pressure the intersection is placing on the Thai healthcare system.

I think an important difference between CM and Pattaya is, from my experience, the CM forum's 'obsession' with western food is where to find the ingredients to cook it at home rather than find a restaurant that makes it. And I am forever in the debt of many folks who have helped me to that end.

[mimithewoof]

I thought the video report was fairly illuminating. As an American, I don't see too many of my fellow countrymen, here, in Thailand. Most elderly Americans opting to retire outside the US do so in Mexico or Costa Rica. So, I've always wondered what the typical expat retiree was like. Thanks to that video, I now have a pretty clear image of what most of the British that come to Thailand are like. Nice to see the reality beneath some of these avatars on TV.

Zydeco - what planet are you on???? Surely you don't believe every sensational report you watch or read?

Please remember one thing - Pattaya is NOT all there is to Thailand and has developed to its present day format due to American so-called R&R demand during the Vietnam war. Even so, the sleaze centre of the town is relatively small,and is studiously avoided by expats not into the services it provides.

Oddly enough, my friend, the expat patrons of that notorious district aren't all from my country, England - your lot are very well represented as are those from other European states including Russia, but Brit TV channel reporters obviously wouldn't include them in their sensationalist reportage. Please do remember that. across the pond as well as in the UK, nothing sells programmes as fast as scandal.

I live in Chiang Mai, wouldn't want to live in Pattaya, and see the same mix of expat nationalities as in the rest of Thailand, although our versions seem to be more circumspect in their 'hobbies'. Americans outnumber Brits here, and it's worth mentioning that, on the CM Thai Visa forum, the majority of informed comments on our local ladies of the night are written in American English!

Somehow, I don't think Thailand is your perfect destination...

[Konini]

Something I noticed here was the sheer number of older folks who WILL need ongoing care if not today in years to come without any insurance and only the pension to pay for that care. In such expat heavy area's, that really is going to put a strain on the Thai health services in the future. Whatever your views on the man in hospital with diabetes and liver problems, the fact is that he IS in hospital and he probably won't be coming out alive, however long that may take. The Thai tax payers will become aware if they are not already, that they are unable to find places in hospitals due to all these 'bloody foreigners'. Those are words that could - and do - come out of my father-in-law's mouth, despite the fact he lives in a part of England with few settled Eastern Europeans.

A question, not an opinion as I haven't really thought of it before today: shouldn't the UK government (tax payers) take some sort of responsibility for people in this situation? I don't mean for people individually, but as one government paying an amount to another government who are put in the situation of having to fund the health care needs for people for whom they ultimately have no responsibility or claim, let alone having not had income tax from their citizens to 'bank' future funding.

What appears to be a potentially huge problem for the near future, I fear.

[watso63]

The idea behind the story is good: export the oldies, cheaper than having them at home and more fun for them in the sun. They spoiled the story with the sex/booze angle, but that was to be expected.

The Australian govt is so stingy it won't even pay the pension ( to those eligible for it at home) outside Australia ( except for a few countries, not including Thailand)

Typical scumbag Australian government thieves...

Mmmmm, dare I say once a criminal...always a criminal?

Sent from my GT-N5100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[watso63]

The idea behind the story is good: export the oldies, cheaper than having them at home and more fun for them in the sun. They spoiled the story with the sex/booze angle, but that was to be expected.

The Australian govt is so stingy it won't even pay the pension ( to those eligible for it at home) outside Australia ( except for a few countries, not including Thailand)

Typical scumbag Australian government thieves...

Mmmmm, dare I say once a criminal...always a criminal? 555

Sent from my GT-N5100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sent from my GT-N5100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[simple1]

The idea behind the story is good: export the oldies, cheaper than having them at home and more fun for them in the sun. They spoiled the story with the sex/booze angle, but that was to be expected.

The Australian govt is so stingy it won't even pay the pension ( to those eligible for it at home) outside Australia ( except for a few countries, not including Thailand)

Your comment on Oz government not paying Aged Pension to eligible Australians who relocate to Thailand is inaccurate.

[FiftyTwo]

My god...some retired Brits have common sense and planned a sensible retirement? Now that is simply "Not Newsworthy" is it? ;-)

All in the past .....

Currently almost impossible for anyone to plan a sensible retirement.

The golden years of company pensions and returns on investments are well and truly over.

In the UK it's almost impossible for normal folk to save anything, and if they could, inflation would eat it.

Edited January 4, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[Konini]

EDIT: Sorry, that was in reply to Simple1

Syntax clarification: For Brits, Australians call all benefits paid by the government pension - for Aussies, the only pension in UK is the Old Aged Pension (do they still call it that?) and all other payments such as dole, sickness and disability are called benefits.

Off topic, I know, but does one get a pension in Australia?

In UK, you pay National Insurance stamp, when we left in 1987 it was 9% of your wages, which gives you among other things free health care and entitlement to the pension at 65, and if you didn't work throughout your life or didn't earn enough to pay NI, then you get the DHSS pension which is for 'poor people'. Very simplified version of what really happens, but suffice for this purpose.

In Australia, as far as I know, there is only the DSS pension, which is a full payment for those who aren't able to provide for themselves, or a partial payment to bump up your own Super payments to the DSS pension level - I could be wrong and stand to be corrected. We lived in Aus for pretty much all of our working lives and provided for our future ourselves I always assumed from my knowledge of the system that we will never get anything from the government, ever (unless we ran out of money, which isn't going to happen). Am I wrong in assuming this, or did somebody plant a seed in our first few days there and we'll get something when we reach whatever magical age is applicable? If an incorrect seed was planted, a very good job was done of it as I've never even broached the subject with our accountant. We don't need it, but paid enough taxes over the years for me to snatch their hands off if we're entitled to something we're not. (Those years, that is, before we got wise enough and found that we earned enough money to say taxes are for people who don't earn enough for all the magical schemes such as negative gearing, the best gift ever given to those people who don't need it, and the worst gift for the country as a whole. The couple over the road from us jointly earned less money than me (my husband earned more) but each of them paid more tax than both of us combined. We took full advantage of what was on offer, but it really isn't a fair system. Kerry Packer paid less personal income tax than us, so I'm not going to be made to feel guilty. I still know that morally it's wrong though).

Edited January 4, 2014 by Konini

[zydeco]

I thought the video report was fairly illuminating. As an American, I don't see too many of my fellow countrymen, here, in Thailand. Most elderly Americans opting to retire outside the US do so in Mexico or Costa Rica. So, I've always wondered what the typical expat retiree was like. Thanks to that video, I now have a pretty clear image of what most of the British that come to Thailand are like. Nice to see the reality beneath some of these avatars on TV.

Zydeco - what planet are you on???? Surely you don't believe every sensational report you watch or read?

Please remember one thing - Pattaya is NOT all there is to Thailand and has developed to its present day format due to American so-called R&R demand during the Vietnam war. Even so, the sleaze centre of the town is relatively small,and is studiously avoided by expats not into the services it provides.

Oddly enough, my friend, the expat patrons of that notorious district aren't all from my country, England - your lot are very well represented as are those from other European states including Russia, but Brit TV channel reporters obviously wouldn't include them in their sensationalist reportage. Please do remember that. across the pond as well as in the UK, nothing sells programmes as fast as scandal.

I live in Chiang Mai, wouldn't want to live in Pattaya, and see the same mix of expat nationalities as in the rest of Thailand, although our versions seem to be more circumspect in their 'hobbies'. Americans outnumber Brits here, and it's worth mentioning that, on the CM Thai Visa forum, the majority of informed comments on our local ladies of the night are written in American English!

Somehow, I don't think Thailand is your perfect destination...

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.

[FiftyTwo]

In UK, you pay National Insurance stamp, when we left in 1987 it was 9% of your wages, which gives you among other things free health care and entitlement to the pension at 65, and if you didn't work throughout your life or didn't earn enough to pay NI, then you get the DHSS pension which is for 'poor people'. Very simplified version of what really happens, but suffice for this purpose.

You still get to use the NHS, even if you never pay NI.

NI is just another tax, and 20% not 9% (You pay 10%, employer pays 10%, but in reality employer just pays you 10% less)

[Konini]

In UK, you pay National Insurance stamp, when we left in 1987 it was 9% of your wages, which gives you among other things free health care and entitlement to the pension at 65, and if you didn't work throughout your life or didn't earn enough to pay NI, then you get the DHSS pension which is for 'poor people'. Very simplified version of what really happens, but suffice for this purpose.

You still get to use the NHS, even if you never pay NI.

NI is just another tax, and 20% not 9% (You pay 10%, employer pays 10%, but in reality employer just pays you 10% less)

Sorry, yes, I did it a bit too quickly and didn't explain myself well.

So in theory, NI has only gone up 1% in 27 years, which isn't too bad, or has the employer contribution been added since we were there?

In Aus, employers have to pay 9% of your base weekly wage or monthly salary into a private superannuation fund, and this is not a pay the employee 9% less thing in my experience. It is the culmination of a trade off between the Hawke government and trades' unions starting in the late 1980's. The same goverment that introduced negative gearing, which is a nightmare to explain but basically allowed those earning higher wages to invest at a loss on paper, claiming all expenses including mortgage interest on investment properties to retire a lot earlier than planned. It works only for those with a high tax code. We took advantage of what they system offered, but having been brought up in a socialist country can see that it is clearly morally wrong.

[FiftyTwo]

In Aus, employers have to pay 9% of your base weekly wage or monthly salary into a private superannuation fund, and this is not a pay the employee 9% less thing in my experience.

Employers don't give you anything for nothing, the more they have to pay you in compulsory benefits, the less they pay you in actual cash.

[watso63]

My god...some retired Brits have common sense and planned a sensible retirement? Now that is simply "Not Newsworthy" is it? ;-)

All in the past .....

Currently almost impossible for anyone to plan a sensible retirement.

The golden years of company pensions and returns on investments are well and truly over.

In the UK it's almost impossible for normal folk to save anything, and if they could, inflation would eat it.

Agree, to a point. Many that did are benefitting, as I am. Reading some of your previous posts, you did well for yourself too. It is getting harder, but a lot of people turned to owning property as an investment and if they time things right and sell up to retire to Thailand then it can work out. I planned about 15 years ahead to move to the sun (Spain was my original choice) I knew I was going to get a good liveable pension aged 41 and indexed linked for life (but the best bit is I don't pay any tax on it whatsoever). A couple of years ago I found out my brother was married to a Thai, came on holiday with him.....soon forgot about Spain, sold everything bought a condo in Pratumnak, met a really good Thai woman and settled in the Buriram/Surin area. Keep myself fit like yourself, cycling mostly....if I want to party then a 400Thb stay in the Thai Hotel, Buriram and Speed Disco and Tawaeng Daeng are brill.

It takes a lot of courage, discipline and self belief for many to leave everything behind, but Skype, Facebook etc help......but bar flies will always be the same and if it's their bag, then so be it.

Sent from my GT-N5100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited January 4, 2014 by watso63

[Konini]

In Aus, employers have to pay 9% of your base weekly wage or monthly salary into a private superannuation fund, and this is not a pay the employee 9% less thing in my experience.

Employers don't give you anything for nothing, the more they have to pay you in compulsory benefits, the less they pay you in actual cash.

I don't want to be argumentative (honest) but I managed and recruited staff for a fair old while and that was never my policy even after the initial 3% super contribution was introduced, and jobs which were offered to me (I have the ego boost of never having applied for them) were on similar terms.

There again, I suppose small business people could be price (wage) sensitive. In my late teens, I learned the lesson of paying peanuts and getting monkeys, but some of the employers I came across in later years would rather pay the peanuts even after I proved to them where they were going wrong in their thinking - one who brought me in to address constant pilfering by new staff for years still insisted on paying the lowest wages possible and getting the people nobody else would employ.