Is a Thai Adoption Recognised by DIAC/Govt in Australia?

[avander]

My Thai wife and her two children recently returned to Thailand with me to live for a number of years. We were married in Australia 3 years ago and her kids are now 8 and 11. They all have PR visa status in Australia. We have decided I will adopt the children here in Thailand and are about to go through the processes for this.

Are there any potential issues or things I should be aware of in having the adoption recognised by the Australian Government? I want to make sure it is officially recognised in both country's.

[simple1]

OP: Expatriate adoptions

• Expatriate adoptions occur when an Australian living overseas adopts a child from the country in which he/she is a resident or from a third country. Australian Commonwealth, State and Territory Adoption Authorities are not involved with expatriate adoptions. The adoption is administered and finalised through the legal processes in the country where the adoption took place.

Edited January 4, 2014 by simple1

[Mario2008]

Best to go through an international adoption, which much be according to the rules of both Thailand and Australia. In that case you will be come the legal father also under Australian law and the children might acquire your nationality as a result of that.

But check with a good lawyer what the advantages and disadvantages are to make it an international adoption, it is normally a longer (thus more costly) procedure.

[simple1]

Best to go through an international adoption, which much be according to the rules of both Thailand and Australia. In that case you will be come the legal father also under Australian law and the children might acquire your nationality as a result of that.

But check with a good lawyer what the advantages and disadvantages are to make it an international adoption, it is normally a longer (thus more costly) procedure.

Mario, children already have Australian PR that leads to citizenship if/when they return to Australia.

[Mario2008]

Best to go through an international adoption, which much be according to the rules of both Thailand and Australia. In that case you will be come the legal father also under Australian law and the children might acquire your nationality as a result of that.

But check with a good lawyer what the advantages and disadvantages are to make it an international adoption, it is normally a longer (thus more costly) procedure.

Mario, children already have Australian PR that leads to citizenship if/when they return to Australia.

That is why I advised getting a good (competent) lawyer. Check the differences it would make in following both procedures and than decide which one to follow.

One other difference it could for instanc make is in regards to inheritance if Australian law doesn't recognize a pure Thai adoption.

[avander]

Thanks Simple1 and Mario, we will try to make it an "International" adoption complying with rules of Australia and Thailand. I will send a query to the Aust embassy here to find out any special requirements for Australia. I know, for example that they must have lived with me for 2 years prior to formalising.

Edited January 4, 2014 by avander

[simple1]

OP: Australia has an intercountry adoption agreement with Thailand, but allocation of places in 2013 was only 13 children a year and current waiting time is about three to four years from the time the applicant’s file is accepted by Thailand. The waiting time for a girl or a very young child is longer. Whether this process applies in your circumstance I have no idea, but if you are interested in obtaining some detail go to the URL below.

http://www.ag.gov.au/FamiliesAndMarriage/IntercountryAdoption/CountryPrograms/Pages/Thailand.aspx

May be Mario is able to shed some high level advice on this approach?

Edited January 4, 2014 by simple1

[Mario2008]

Can't really comment on it, but realize it is only basic information. In the Op's case it is an adoption of his wife's children, which should make things easier and also on the Australian side things might be easier. As far as I know the Thai side will certainly be easier.

A point of interest is if the Op's wife was married to the father of the children or that the father of the children legitimized the children in another way. If not, it might be that the children can be legitimized by the OP (if he didn't do that already by marrying the mother of the children who had no legal father).

See section 1547 and following of book V of the Thai civil code. : http://www.thailawonline.com/images/thaicivilcode/book%205%20title%201-3%20thai%20civil%20and%20commercial%20code%20.pdf

I must say that seems dodgy to me, as the articles speaks of "parents" and not "the man" so probably the biological father is meant here. But that is open to interpretation and also depends on the exact wording in the Thai language version of the law.

[harrry]

You may also like to consider that adoption means they lose any rights they may have to inferit from the natural father or his family.

[David48]

May I ask a side, but related question, if it's not too personal?

Since your partner's children have temporary or permanent residency in Australia and thus, if they choose, go on to take Citizenship ... why or what advantages do you see in legally adopting them?

Thanks in advance.

[avander]

May I ask a side, but related question, if it's not too personal?

Since your partner's children have temporary or permanent residency in Australia and thus, if they choose, go on to take Citizenship ... why or what advantages do you see in legally adopting them?

Thanks in advance.

Hi David,

Issues relating to inheritance.

[avander]

Can't really comment on it, but realize it is only basic information. In the Op's case it is an adoption of his wife's children, which should make things easier and also on the Australian side things might be easier. As far as I know the Thai side will certainly be easier.

A point of interest is if the Op's wife was married to the father of the children or that the father of the children legitimized the children in another way. If not, it might be that the children can be legitimized by the OP (if he didn't do that already by marrying the mother of the children who had no legal father).

See section 1547 and following of book V of the Thai civil code. : http://www.thailawonline.com/images/thaicivilcode/book%205%20title%201-3%20thai%20civil%20and%20commercial%20code%20.pdf

I must say that seems dodgy to me, as the articles speaks of "parents" and not "the man" so probably the biological father is meant here. But that is open to interpretation and also depends on the exact wording in the Thai language version of the law.

Interms of recognition I have sent an email off to the Australian embassy to clarify. As far as their visas are are concerned it's just a matter of sending DIAC the documentation for the adoption, a name change form & copies of new passports etc and that's it.

[David48]

May I ask a side, but related question, if it's not too personal?

Since your partner's children have temporary or permanent residency in Australia and thus, if they choose, go on to take Citizenship ... why or what advantages do you see in legally adopting them?

Thanks in advance.

Hi David,

Issues relating to inheritance.

Thanks for the reply.

[harrry]

May I ask a side, but related question, if it's not too personal?

Since your partner's children have temporary or permanent residency in Australia and thus, if they choose, go on to take Citizenship ... why or what advantages do you see in legally adopting them?

Thanks in advance.

Hi David,

Issues relating to inheritance.

With Australia it is your will that matters. Others have very little say unless you have been supporting them at the time of death. On adoption however they will lost claim to anything they may be able to inherit from the father's family.

Edited January 5, 2014 by harrry

[David48]

Mate, I don't know if this helps or not ... from the Immigration FAQ's page

How can I adopt a child from outside Australia?

You should seek legal advice before you try to adopt a child from outside Australia.

In Australia, each state or territory is responsible for processing and approving adoptions from other countries.

We cannot help you arrange an adoption. Our role is to assess and decide applications for visas.

For a child to be granted an Adoption visa (subclass 102), one of the following must apply:

The child was adopted (or is to be adopted) with the involvement of an Australian state or territory adoption authority.

• The child was adopted privately by an expatriate Australian resident who has been living outside Australia for more than 12 months (and the residency outside Australia must not have been contrived solely for the purposes of the child’s adoption)
• The child was adopted through an arrangement between two countries other than Australia that are parties to the Hague Convention on the Protection of Children and Cooperation in respect of Intercountry Adoption (the Hague Adoption Convention).

[avander]

<p>

Mate, I don't know if this helps or not ... from the Immigration FAQ's page

How can I adopt a child from outside Australia?

You should seek legal advice before you try to adopt a child from outside Australia.

In Australia, each state or territory is responsible for processing and approving adoptions from other countries.

We cannot help you arrange an adoption. Our role is to assess and decide applications for visas.

For a child to be granted an Adoption visa (subclass 102), one of the following must apply:

The child was adopted (or is to be adopted) with the involvement of an Australian state or territory adoption authority.

• The child was adopted privately by an expatriate Australian resident who has been living outside Australia for more than 12 months (and the residency outside Australia must not have been contrived solely for the purposes of the childs adoption)
• The child was adopted through an arrangement between two countries other than Australia that are parties to the Hague Convention on the Protection of Children and Cooperation in respect of Intercountry Adoption (the Hague Adoption Convention).

While some of this may apply I don't believe it would be much at all. The kids are my wife's to start with and I have already been through the child protection loop to get them all out to Australia over 3 years ago. I think most of the stuff refers to an adoption where neither of the prospective parents have had a prior relationship with the children.

Thanks for the info though.

[avander]

An update as promised form my query to the Aust Embassy in Bangkok. Following is the (slightly tailored) response I received:

=============================================================

Our previous correspondence was centred on visa matters and we have assured
you that xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx already have Australian Permanent Residence
visas. As discussed, when the adoption documents, name change documents and a
copy of the new passports are provided to the Australian Embassy in Bangkok
our systems will be updated to reflect these changes.

Staff at the Australian Embassy in Bangkok are not in a position to provide
assurances that the adoption of your wife's children would be fully recognised
by all Australian Government authorities.

============================================================

I believe the Embassy also represents DIAC so in this regard I expect immigration is OK with a local adoption through the

normal Thia government processes and no issues or problems would result with regard to either visa status or later

applications for Australian Citizenship.

As they say, who knows for other Aust. Federal or State Govt departments but my expectation is that the adoption would

be recognised. I don't see how DIAC would be OK and others would not; it doesn't make any sense. But, who knows?

[simple1]

OP: If you still want clarification on the legal recognition & rights under law for inheritance etc for a privately adopted child in Thailand for an Australian PR, why not contact your home State government adoption agency. A bit more info under the heading 'Guardianship of Children" at the URL below.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/36adopting.htm

BTW are you aware of the process to legally formalise being a stepfather in Australia? It may be of interest and an example at...

http://www.qld.gov.au/community/caring-child/adopting-step-child/

Edited January 8, 2014 by simple1

[avander]

OP: If you still want clarification on the legal recognition & rights under law for inheritance etc for a privately adopted child in Thailand for an Australian PR, why not contact your home State government adoption agency. A bit more info under the heading 'Guardianship of Children" at the URL below.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/36adopting.htm

BTW are you aware of the process to legally formalise being a stepfather in Australia? It may be of interest and an example at...

http://www.qld.gov.au/community/caring-child/adopting-step-child/

Thanks Simple1,

As usual, it appears it is not so simple... The below link is similar as per your QLD link. It is for a Fact Sheet from the NSW Family and Community Services dealing with intra-family adoption. Of course it costs (around $1500 all up it seems) and you all need to be residing in NSW at the time of applying.

Nothing is ever easy (or free), is it?

http://www.community.nsw.gov.au/docswr/_assets/main/documents/adoption/intrafamily_fact.pdf

Oh well, we will continue with the adoption here in Thailand and take it from there once we go back to Oz in a few years. In the meantime I have also sent an inquiry off to the NSW Dept of Family and Community Services detailing our specific situation so will see what they come back with and post in this thread if different to the details contained in the above links.

Once again, thanks

Cheers

A