Condo committee chairman threatened with being deported

[geriatrickid]

I am so happy I do not own property in Thailand. What a hassle and what a high risk investment.

[BlackJack]

The Juristic Person is the building

The Committee is voted in and oversees the operations of the building and common property

The Juristic Person Manager carries out the work or directs others like clerical, cleaning, techs, gardeners to do the work

If you are on the Committee you can as a co owner and share holder of the building attend and discuss matters regarding the building

DONT sign off on anything regarding payments to contractors or workers and you should be OK

PM me

OK

[Greenhill]

One thing wrong with the answer is the part that you cannot get a work permit on a visa extension based on retirement. I have had four WPs from 3 different provinces all on a nonimmigrant O extension based on retirement. If they got that wrong, what else did they get wrong?

Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

This just shows the total confusion of Thailand!!! If you are 'retired' and on a retirement visa/extension, you cannot work!!! Retirement means 'not working'!!! Can you see the obvious contradiction???

[iancnx]

Frits IMHO that is absolute rubbish and don't believe such an article to be authoritative whatsoever. Sitting on a condo committee is not work provided you employ a JP and a Thai manager and staff to run the day to day operations and administration of the building. It is an overseeing function safeguarding your own property interests. It is not work. It is not denying employment of a Thai in anyway shape or form!

"Phuket Employment Office, Work Permit Division chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan" ....I would say its definitely authoritative...seeing as the answer given comes from the goverment official who decides in the case of Phuket.

Well before you bang on any more and promote this misinformation I suggest you get a transcript of what was actually said in Thai and then get it properly translated .... Or do you always believe everything you read in the media ?

[tropic1000]

A friend's condo office checked with their lawyer with regard to work permit requirements for foreigners on condo committees.

The lawyer replied:

In our view, it is not practical and to the best of our knowledge, no Condominium requires work permit for foreign committee members. We called and checked with the Labor Department, and got confirmation that no work permit is required for foreign committee members as it is deemed as the foreign co-owners manage their own property, not working. However, if the foreign co-owner becomes the juristic person manager, the Labor Department is of the view that the work permit is required.

In any case, it's best to have your manager call the Labor department or consult your condo's lawyer.

As noted by others, this topic has been discussed before on Thai-visa:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/625599-condo-committee/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/653483-can-farangs-work-on-condo-committees-without-a-work-permit/

Following is a 2011 generalized article written by a prominent law firm [note: there is no discussion of committee work]

http://library.addresstalk.com/reflib/2014/1/11/foreigners-beware-penalties-for-working-without-a-permit-may-be-dire

[iancnx]

A friend's condo office checked with their lawyer with regard to work permit requirements for foreigners on condo committees.

The lawyer replied:

In our view, it is not practical and to the best of our knowledge, no Condominium requires work permit for foreign committee members. We called and checked with the Labor Department, and got confirmation that no work permit is required for foreign committee members as it is deemed as the foreign co-owners manage their own property, not working. However, if the foreign co-owner becomes the juristic person manager, the Labor Department is of the view that the work permit is required.

In any case, it's best to have your manager call the Labor department or consult your condo's lawyer.

As noted by others, this topic has been discussed before on Thai-visa:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/625599-condo-committee/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/653483-can-farangs-work-on-condo-committees-without-a-work-permit/

Following is a 2011 generalized article written by a prominent law firm [note: there is no discussion of committee work]

http://library.addresstalk.com/reflib/2014/1/11/foreigners-beware-penalties-for-working-without-a-permit-may-be-dire

Sour peel response?

[Soutpeel]

Frits IMHO that is absolute rubbish and don't believe such an article to be authoritative whatsoever. Sitting on a condo committee is not work provided you employ a JP and a Thai manager and staff to run the day to day operations and administration of the building. It is an overseeing function safeguarding your own property interests. It is not work. It is not denying employment of a Thai in anyway shape or form!

"Phuket Employment Office, Work Permit Division chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan" ....I would say its definitely authoritative...seeing as the answer given comes from the goverment official who decides in the case of Phuket.

Well before you bang on any more and promote this misinformation I suggest you get a transcript of what was actually said in Thai and then get it properly translated .... Or do you always believe everything you read in the media ?

Send me the transcipt in Thai then....no problem

besides how do you know the initial response was in Thai, maybe the guy speak/writes in English ?

[iancnx]

Frits IMHO that is absolute rubbish and don't believe such an article to be authoritative whatsoever. Sitting on a condo committee is not work provided you employ a JP and a Thai manager and staff to run the day to day operations and administration of the building. It is an overseeing function safeguarding your own property interests. It is not work. It is not denying employment of a Thai in anyway shape or form!

"Phuket Employment Office, Work Permit Division chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan" ....I would say its definitely authoritative...seeing as the answer given comes from the goverment official who decides in the case of Phuket.

Well before you bang on any more and promote this misinformation I suggest you get a transcript of what was actually said in Thai and then get it properly translated .... Or do you always believe everything you read in the media ?

Send me the transcipt in Thai then....no problem

besides how do you know the initial response was in Thai, maybe the guy speak/writes in English ?

The point is you CLEARLY don't know the true source of this 'story', you don't know if it was in Thai, or in bad unintelligible English or a mixture of both. The possibility of questions/answers being misunderstood or badly translated is huge. You have merely believed and promoted a 'story' in the local news and as a result would have less savvy TV readers believe your interpretation of the law is gospel.

I have nothing to back this up but I strongly suspect the official believed he was talking in good faith about a paid position be it either JPM or admin management or another position that any Thai could be employed in.

A Chairman or a Committee member is in NO WAY taking an employment opportunity away from a Thai.

[Soutpeel]

A friend's condo office checked with their lawyer with regard to work permit requirements for foreigners on condo committees.

The lawyer replied:

In our view, it is not practical and to the best of our knowledge, no Condominium requires work permit for foreign committee members. We called and checked with the Labor Department, and got confirmation that no work permit is required for foreign committee members as it is deemed as the foreign co-owners manage their own property, not working. However, if the foreign co-owner becomes the juristic person manager, the Labor Department is of the view that the work permit is required.

In any case, it's best to have your manager call the Labor department or consult your condo's lawyer.

As noted by others, this topic has been discussed before on Thai-visa:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/625599-condo-committee/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/653483-can-farangs-work-on-condo-committees-without-a-work-permit/

Following is a 2011 generalized article written by a prominent law firm [note: there is no discussion of committee work]

http://library.addresstalk.com/reflib/2014/1/11/foreigners-beware-penalties-for-working-without-a-permit-may-be-dire

Sour peel response?

have you even read the first 2 links provided...nothing definitive in these...

but a couple of facts based on some of my remarks:

people keep banging on about immigration...as I have stated its the DOL that decides who is working or not, not immigration

Lawyers can only provide an opinion

per the body of the above.....

"In any case, it's best to have your manager call the Labor department"

[iancnx]

"In any case, it's best to have your manager call the Labor department" [/size]

Agree with all of that Soutpeel. It's a shame the last sentence was not included in the article in the first place.

[Soutpeel]

[The point is you CLEARLY don't know the true source of this 'story', you don't know if it was in Thai, or in bad unintelligible English or a mixture of both. The possibility of questions/answers being misunderstood or badly translated is huge. You have merely believed and promoted a 'story' in the local news and as a result would have less savvy TV readers believe your interpretation of the law is gospel.

I have nothing to back this up but I strongly suspect the official believed he was talking in good faith about a paid position be it either JPM or admin management or another position that any Thai could be employed in.

A Chairman or a Committee member is in NO WAY taking an employment opportunity away from a Thai.

do you ?......your rationalising.

The person quoted in this piece is correct person who would be commenting on this question, as its his department, who would decide who is or isnt working for the Phuket area.

Everyone is looking for paragraphs in the law to try an prove a point, the fact is the answer is not written down in Thai law. Under the current way the law is written and system used, its down to the individual labour department in a particular area to define what they do and dont consider as working and under what conditions a WP will be required

Therefore if the "man" in Phuket or his department says something is working and requires a WP then its working..its that simple, in another area, the "man" may say something different.

the best advice which is always given....consult your local labour department (DOL) and they will tell you what the "rules" are in the local area under their jurisdiction only

[manarak]

Our condo for the last 10 years or so has been run really well, the security, garden maintenance, pool...etc,etc have all been kept up to a very good standard.

The strict rules means that the standards are kept up and everyone's been happy, the committee has an annual AGM, the members are voted in for the year, they

decide where the budget will be spent and direct the Thai office staff.

Yesterday however the chairman sends out an e-mail to all the owners saying that someone has spoken to him (another owner) and said he's going to report him to immigration as he hasn't got a work permit, and insist they get him deported !! (dont know the full details).

The chairman has then spoken to all the other committee members and they have all resigned.

Without the owners committee the place will fall to ruin, imaging the Thai office staff looking after our annual budget ......it will probably be gone in the first week on one new lawnmower, which they would have a receipt for 5 million thb.

My question is does anyone have any views to this type of thing being classed as working, which would require a work permit, there's no salary involved all voluntary. It must be going on all over Thailand, on the condo complexes.

Thanks for your help

I think I know which condo you are talking about.

I have received very clear legal advice that no work permit is required for the activities I undertake as Committee Chairman.

In addition, the Juristic Person Manager, used her contacts to make an appointment to meet a senior official of the Land Office. He also confirmed that no work permit was required.

Equally as importantly we received advice on the circumstances under which immigration is likely to start an investigation and the type of evidence that would be required to take an investigation forward.

Although it was important to confirm our understanding of the legal position, concerns about this were not the main reason for the resignation of the Committee. The behaviour of the co-owner was much more important.

Until there are volunteers to form a new committee, the Condo will now be run entirely at the discretion of the Juristic Person Manager, who still owns a substantial number of units. Actually, I would be more concerned that there will be great reluctance for her to approve any major item of future expenditure which, over time, may lead to a deterioration in the appearance and condition of the condo.

Always good to learn about such a sad state affairs from a forum !

Was it again the loud co-owner?