Farang married to Thai wife....who gets the house if she dies?

[mikey88]

Does anyone have experience of this. A couple, legally married...she is Thai he is farang. The house is in her name and there is no will. They have one daughter.

Does the house pass to the farang?

[eyecatcher]

Not you.....you are a little way down the pecking order. As other posters will confirm.

[PoorSucker]

Yes, and he will have one year to sell the land (or give it to the daughter).

[hellodolly]

Yes, and he will have one year to sell the land (or give it to the daughter).

Well I am relatively sure you are right about the house. Would seem the natural way of things in any country.

But I am sure that he can not sell the property because it is imposable for him to own it. Unless there is some sort of business set up which will also bring other factors into play like tax profit and loss etc.

[uptheos]

Yes, and he will have one year to sell the land (or give it to the daughter).

Well I am relatively sure you are right about the house. Would seem the natural way of things in any country.

But I am sure that he can not sell the property because it is imposable for him to own it. Unless there is some sort of business set up which will also bring other factors into play like tax profit and loss etc.

You can inherit the property, but it must be sold within one year......I'm not sure of the exact process but it's correct.

I guess you sort of own it by proxy for a short time.

[Morden]

Was the house bought before or after the legal marriage? The answer would determine what rights in law he may have.

The best protection for Mr. Farang would be to sign either an usufruct contract or 30 year lease with his wife and lodge it with the land title (which I hope is chanoot at the Land Office). My understanding is that usufruct and lease remain valid after the owner dies.

[PoorSucker]

Yes, and he will have one year to sell the land (or give it to the daughter).

Well I am relatively sure you are right about the house. Would seem the natural way of things in any country.

But I am sure that he can not sell the property because it is imposable for him to own it. Unless there is some sort of business set up which will also bring other factors into play like tax profit and loss etc.

If she own the land when she dies the foreign husband will inherit the land but must sell it within a year.

[Oscar2]

Yes, and he will have one year to sell the land (or give it to the daughter).

But I am sure that he can not sell the property because it is imposable for him to own it. Unless there is some sort of business set up which will also bring other factors into play like tax profit and loss etc.

wrong!

[Morden]

Yes, and he will have one year to sell the land (or give it to the daughter).

Well I am relatively sure you are right about the house. Would seem the natural way of things in any country.

But I am sure that he can not sell the property because it is imposable for him to own it. Unless there is some sort of business set up which will also bring other factors into play like tax profit and loss etc.

If she own the land when she dies the foreign husband will inherit the land but must sell it within a year.

Do you think that applies if she bought the land before the legal marriage?

[PoorSucker]

Do you think that applies if she bought the land before the legal marriage?

Yes, same as if the husband dies she inherit his money even if he had it before they got married.

[hml367]

INHERITANCE OF LAND BY FOREIGNERS

According to section 93 of the Land Code Act a foreigner who acquires land as statutory heir can have an ownership in such land upon a permission of the Minister of Interior. Note that section 93 Land Code Act only refers to foreign land ownership under a treaty and not for example to foreigners inheriting land from their Thai spouse. A foreign spouse of a Thai national can inherit land but cannot register ownership of land and has to sell the land within one year from the date of acquisition.

source: http://www.thailandlawonline.com/thai-real-estate-law/ownership-and-buying-real-estate-in-Thailand

The best thing to do is check with a Thai licensed attorney. I think the heir successor is addressed in Thai laws or regulations.

Here is some information on heirs:

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/thai-family-and-marriage-law/civil-law-on-succession-inheritance-heirs-and-wills

Edited January 6, 2014 by hml367

[Morden]

Do you think that applies if she bought the land before the legal marriage?

Yes, same as if the husband dies she inherit his money even if he had it before they got married.

Interesting. Do you have a source of information to confirm that, please? My understanding is that a husband has a 50% interest in joint property acquired after a legal marriage but no financial interest in property which she owned prior to a legal marriage. What you are saying is very different so I would like to be sure which is correct. It's a very important point, I think you would agree.

[ThaidDown]

If the wife dies intestate the husband does not automatically inherit the land or any of her assets. It depends on who else in the family is still alive, and this includes children, parents and others.

A Usufruct (for life) will continue to give you permission to use the land as you wish until you die. Note, A usufruct between a married couple can be cancelled by either of them at any time during the marriage and up to 1 year after divorce.

Wills by both parties is the only way to ensure your wishes are carried out.

The foreign husband can inherit land, but in practice must dispose of it within a 'reasonable time'. Know of a case where foreigner has had the land for nearly 2 years after wife's death, no children, and he has only had stupidly low offers to buy.

Transfer of land under section 93 of the land act requires permission from the Minister of the Interior and I have never heard of this being given in any case. More on this in the first link below. Further info on classes of inheritance in the second link.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/inheritance-laws-thailand.html

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/thai-family-and-marriage-law/civil-law-on-succession-inheritance-heirs-and-wills

[PoorSucker]

Interesting. Do you have a source of information to confirm that, please? My understanding is that a husband has a 50% interest in joint property acquired after a legal marriage but no financial interest in property which she owned prior to a legal marriage. What you are saying is very different so I would like to be sure which is correct. It's a very important point, I think you would agree.

This is only applicable in case of divorce.

[PoorSucker]

Interesting. Do you have a source of information to confirm that, please?

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/thai-family-and-marriage-law/civil-law-on-succession-inheritance-heirs-and-wills#1635

[Morden]

Interesting. Do you have a source of information to confirm that, please?

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/thai-family-and-marriage-law/civil-law-on-succession-inheritance-heirs-and-wills#1635

Thanks for that.

So, it seems that the husband's 'inheritance' where there is no will, has to be shared with offspring and, probably, other members of the family. The property would have to be sold to satisfy claims unless the various beneficiaries were willing to leave things be.

[hellodolly]

Well I am relatively sure you are right about the house. Would seem the natural way of things in any country.

But I am sure that he can not sell the property because it is imposable for him to own it. Unless there is some sort of business set up which will also bring other factors into play like tax profit and loss etc.

If she own the land when she dies the foreign husband will inherit the land but must sell it within a year.

Well I am relatively sure you are right about the house. Would seem the natural way of things in any country.

But I am sure that he can not sell the property because it is imposable for him to own it. Unless there is some sort of business set up which will also bring other factors into play like tax profit and loss etc.

You can inherit the property, but it must be sold within one year......I'm not sure of the exact process but it's correct.

I guess you sort of own it by proxy for a short time.

I stand corrected

[FiftyTwo]

50% for husband, 50% for child.

There is no legal way the sale of the house can be forced under Thai law, as the 50% owned by the Thai daughter may not be sold.

The usual 'compromise' by court order is for the foreigner father to be given 'manegerial rights' over the entire property on the understanding it will be signed over 100% to the child when reaching age 20. Please note "court understandings" are not enforceable and usually no more is ever said about the deal.

As far as I know 'sale in 1 year' rule has never been enforced even when single foreign inheritor.

If anyone posting the usual "incorrect <deleted>" on these forums knows of any case where a sale was successfully forced (property seized and sold at auction), please let me know.

Edited January 6, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[eyecatcher]

And for those of us who have a mortgage in the spouses name ( the sensible ones)....then the property strictly speaking belongs to the bank......doesn't it?

[FiftyTwo]

And for those of us who have a mortgage in the spouses name ( the sensible ones)....then the property strictly speaking belongs to the bank......doesn't it?

If my wife dies, the compulsory life insurance on her, pays off the home loan, and I inherit.

It only belongs to the bank if I die, and she can't make the payments.

[ataloss]

The Thai spouse (wife in this instance) draws up a will at the District Tessabahn (inexpensive, plus officials, at least at the Sansai Office, have the forms already on their computer) whereby the land goes to daughter and the house to her farang husband. The District Tessabahn keeps copies of all transactions in sealed envelopes. Husband and wife get their copies too. Quite straight forward and completed in twenty minutes or so.

Additionally the farang spouse should enact a separate usufruct to keep the extended Thai family at bay over the daughter's share.

Futhermore the farang husband initiates a separate will to ensure that the daughter gets the house when he dies, and allocates funds at least to pay off the mortgage of the house now in the daughter's name.

Edited January 6, 2014 by ataloss

[FiftyTwo]

The Thai spouse (wife in this instance) draws up a will at the District Tessabahn (inexpensive, plus officials, at least at the Sansai Office, have the forms already on their computer) whereby the land goes to daughter and the house to her farang husband.

Impossible.

You can't split a house and land after original registration at the land office.

[wolf5370]

Was the house bought before or after the legal marriage? The answer would determine what rights in law he may have.

The best protection for Mr. Farang would be to sign either an usufruct contract or 30 year lease with his wife and lodge it with the land title (which I hope is chanoot at the Land Office). My understanding is that usufruct and lease remain valid after the owner dies.

USUFRUCT between a married couple is seen part of the married estate and as such can be subject to revocation during a divorce - always best to use a third party to exempt it - anyone external will do (USUFRUCTs do not have to only refer to a single individual). Lease could be problematic if the new owner decides to cause issues and if you live longer than 30 years.

IMO best is to put the land in the kids name with 3 party USUFRUCT on it. Few people are interested in buying land with a USUFRUCT on it as it passes along with the deed (chanote), and third party on the USUFRUCT would protect it against divorce proceedings, so its pretty safe (no land anywhere is completely safe as governments always reserve the right to compulsory purchase or even resettle land).

[FiftyTwo]

IMO best is to put the land in the kids name with 3 party USUFRUCT on it. Few people are interested in buying land with a USUFRUCT on it as it passes along with the deed (chanote), and third party on the USUFRUCT would protect it against divorce proceedings, so its pretty safe (no land anywhere is completely safe as governments always reserve the right to compulsory purchase or even resettle land).

Impossible.

Can't devalue the property of a minor, it has to be owned by the minor, free and clear of all debt and emcumberance.

[wolf5370]

IMO best is to put the land in the kids name with 3 party USUFRUCT on it. Few people are interested in buying land with a USUFRUCT on it as it passes along with the deed (chanote), and third party on the USUFRUCT would protect it against divorce proceedings, so its pretty safe (no land anywhere is completely safe as governments always reserve the right to compulsory purchase or even resettle land).

Impossible.

Can't devalue the property of a minor, it has to be owned by the minor, free and clear of all debt and emcumberance.

No debt (? - I am assuming there is no mortgage on said property), and USUFRUCTS are usually set up at point of transfer at the land registry - if the child is the third party on the USUFRUCT, even if one considered a USUFRUCT an encumbrance, could be put aside. Although I would think it is overkill - one would hope we can trust our own kids not to evict us!

Our land is owned solely in my wife's name and willed to our children on her death (we don't actually live on the land, so not much of an issue for us).

[BB1955]

And for those of us who have a mortgage in the spouses name ( the sensible ones)....then the property strictly speaking belongs to the bank......doesn't it?

If my wife dies, the compulsory life insurance on her, pays off the home loan, and I inherit.

It only belongs to the bank if I die, and she can't make the payments.

I looked into this as I am in the same boat . If your home is financed you can not get a usufruct the land office will not register it . If your wife dies and the insurance pays off the house without a will , the house will go to her family usually the mother is first in the pecking order then the list goes on ... If she has a will that's registered leaving the house to you , then the house is yours and you have one year to dispose of it . This is true even if you are listed on the insurance policy as the one to receive the assets ...

From everything else I have read about a divorce , you are just S.O.L ......

[FiftyTwo]

And for those of us who have a mortgage in the spouses name ( the sensible ones)....then the property strictly speaking belongs to the bank......doesn't it?

If my wife dies, the compulsory life insurance on her, pays off the home loan, and I inherit.

It only belongs to the bank if I die, and she can't make the payments.

I looked into this as I am in the same boat . If your home is financed you can not get a usufruct the land office will not register it . If your wife dies and the insurance pays off the house without a will , the house will go to her family usually the mother is first in the pecking order then the list goes on ... If she has a will that's registered leaving the house to you , then the house is yours and you have one year to dispose of it . This is true even if you are listed on the insurance policy as the one to receive the assets ...

From everything else I have read about a divorce , you are just S.O.L ......

Rules of inheritance in Thailand, are clear and not dependant on the nationality of the family members.

Anyone telling you different is either wrong or lying.

[onthedarkside]

Inappropriate post removed.

[eyecatcher]

From our point of view it seems like the classic loophole.

Simple and obvious yet brilliant.....its a good idea to make a more of this, along with the will.

Keep it under your hats though loopholes are great until someone here with an ounce of brain spots it.