Plausibility of an American Citizen Gaining Employment in Thailand

[Berkshire]

without trying to sound obtuse...someone looking for work in Thailand needs to ask this question....what is the reason they are looking for a job ?

if they are looking for a job in Thailand because they are that desperate to live in Thailand ?

I think that's the number one reason why most of these young guys want to work in Thailand--they're simply desperate to live here. It's sad, really, because the short term gratification they will get pales in comparison to the financial hole they'll be digging for themselves into old age. No money saved. No pension. No Social Security. Better to be financially secure before even deciding to settle in Thailand.

As for the topic, to put it simply, there are plenty of low-paying jobs available, but very few (if any) "career" type positions available for a foreigner. MNC's don't typically hire expats from the local area, they'll transfer them from the home country. The benefit that MNC's get from hiring locals is language skills, knowledge of the culture, etc. OP has none of that, so brings very little to the table to begin with.

[Zao]

I work O&G

Ah, of course, O&G. That makes perfect sense. Well done. Oddly enough, O&G offers opportunities for expats in each of the 3 areas OP flagged. Happy for OP.

From POV of sector, O&G can be a good career. Too many (young) people overlook it because of trendy headlines, mis-understanding the breadth of career options. Soutpeel's other comments are spot on, too. Build your career thoughtfully.

[Soutpeel]

I work O&G

Ah, of course, O&G. That makes perfect sense. Well done. Oddly enough, O&G offers opportunities for expats in each of the 3 areas OP flagged. Happy for OP.

From POV of sector, O&G can be a good career. Too many (young) people overlook it because of trendy headlines, mis-understanding the breadth of career options. Soutpeel's other comments are spot on, too. Build your career thoughtfully.

Getting into the Thai O&G game is very difficult these days, unless as an expat you have something very "special" on offer

The Thai industry has a very robust nationalisation program, and as a thumb suck figure, I would say its greater than 90% Thai nationals in the game, and the existing number number of expats is reducing by the year.

I would predict in the next 10 years, there will be just about no expats, or very very few about, therefore the Thai O&G sector would not be a good choice for any farang some trying to make a start in Thailand IMHO

I am already training/mentoring my replacement, but at the moment no set date as to when I am going to be replaced, as in some respects its my decision to managment when I feel the person is ready to take over, as the part of the business i look after is very high captial outlay, and what would be considered "high" risk/ high consequence operations.

For me, i really only need another 4-5 years anyway and the piggy bank will be full, so kind of thinking of quitting the business anyway, and maybe get into flower arranging....

[VegasVic]

How easy would it be for me gaining legal employment in the US being a non-US citizen or green card holder ? , it seems all the job ads I look at want US citizens or green cards holders only

You left out over 2 million work visas issued in the U.S. and hundreds of thousands of educational visas, and most of them find legal employment in the U.S. without being a citizen or green card holder There is no need to show your ignorance on this matter, the OP asked a very good question and the answer is that Thailand is still very much a "closed society" where foreigners LEGALLY in the country have very few options for employment, such is not the case in the U.S. where anyone legally in the country can seek whatever employment they choose Personally I can't imagine why anyone would seek employment in Thailand with the pitiful wages even college graduates make here, just make, save and invest the money you earn in your home country and in a few years you can enjoy an early retirement in the LOS

Yes those pitiful wages I have earned in thailand over the last 13 years are nearly 30 % above the wages being paid for a comparable position in both the US and UK and less tax as well to boot

So I have no problem working for pitiful wages in Thailand and long may it continue

Yes indeed those pitiful wages, if you bother to take the time to actually fact check you will find that on average Thais make 1/10th the wages for the same job as their American counterpart, and that is across the board from non skilled labor to skilled labor to college graduates up to advanced degrees The cost of living in Thailand is 30-50% of that of the U.S.(depending on where in Thailand one resides), so why would anyone work for 1/10th the wage just so they can live 50% cheaper??? Once again I come back to my sound advice to the OP, make, save and invest your money in the U.S., E.U. Australia or wherever you are and then enjoy an early retirement in the LOS

[SheungWan]

without trying to sound obtuse...someone looking for work in Thailand needs to ask this question....what is the reason they are looking for a job ?

if they are looking for a job in Thailand because they are that desperate to live in Thailand ?

I think that's the number one reason why most of these young guys want to work in Thailand--they're simply desperate to live here. It's sad, really, because the short term gratification they will get pales in comparison to the financial hole they'll be digging for themselves into old age. No money saved. No pension. No Social Security. Better to be financially secure before even deciding to settle in Thailand.

As for the topic, to put it simply, there are plenty of low-paying jobs available, but very few (if any) "career" type positions available for a foreigner. MNC's don't typically hire expats from the local area, they'll transfer them from the home country. The benefit that MNC's get from hiring locals is language skills, knowledge of the culture, etc. OP has none of that, so brings very little to the table to begin with.

The great travellers in the UK used to be the young Aussie doctors, dentists, lawyers and accountants who would be able to get jobs for varying durations and move around when and where the fancy took them. There are still free magazines in London advertising for their services. They had something which was in demand and paid decently. What we seem to increasingly get on this forum are foreigners lacking appropriate professional qualifications hoping to embark on some career in Thailand and open to suggestions. Not exactly a good strategy or any strategy at all apparently apart from a Hail Mary! pass.

Edited January 12, 2014 by SheungWan

[Soutpeel]

How easy would it be for me gaining legal employment in the US being a non-US citizen or green card holder ? , it seems all the job ads I look at want US citizens or green cards holders only

You left out over 2 million work visas issued in the U.S. and hundreds of thousands of educational visas, and most of them find legal employment in the U.S. without being a citizen or green card holder There is no need to show your ignorance on this matter, the OP asked a very good question and the answer is that Thailand is still very much a "closed society" where foreigners LEGALLY in the country have very few options for employment, such is not the case in the U.S. where anyone legally in the country can seek whatever employment they choose Personally I can't imagine why anyone would seek employment in Thailand with the pitiful wages even college graduates make here, just make, save and invest the money you earn in your home country and in a few years you can enjoy an early retirement in the LOS

Yes those pitiful wages I have earned in thailand over the last 13 years are nearly 30 % above the wages being paid for a comparable position in both the US and UK and less tax as well to boot

So I have no problem working for pitiful wages in Thailand and long may it continue

Yes indeed those pitiful wages, if you bother to take the time to actually fact check you will find that on average Thais make 1/10th the wages for the same job as their American counterpart, and that is across the board from non skilled labor to skilled labor to college graduates up to advanced degrees The cost of living in Thailand is 30-50% of that of the U.S.(depending on where in Thailand one resides), so why would anyone work for 1/10th the wage just so they can live 50% cheaper??? Once again I come back to my sound advice to the OP, make, save and invest your money in the U.S., E.U. Australia or wherever you are and then enjoy an early retirement in the LOS

This maybe so...but the topic under discussion has nothing to do with what an average Thai makes, its to do with farangs working in Thailand...and as stated I dont and would not work for a 1/10 of the wage of the preveiling international rates for what I do, just so I could live in Thailand.

the 30% I mentioned doesnt include a "perceived" cost of cheaper living expenses in Thailand, which IMHO after 13 years here are not much cheaper anyway, if you live a life in Thailand which is similar to what your used to in farangland,

if you want to join the mamma noodle/35m condo brigade/motocy brigade then yes of course it will be cheaper, but this is no different to living in the US and living in a trailer park

everyone to their own I guess

[Soutpeel]

The great travellers in the UK used to be the young Aussie doctors, dentists, lawyers and accountants who would be able to get jobs for varying durations and move around when and where the fancy took them. There are still free magazines in London advertising for their services. They had something which was in demand and paid decently. What we seem to increasingly get on this forum are foreigners lacking appropriate professional qualifications hoping to embark on some career in Thailand and open to suggestions. Not exactly a good strategy or any strategy at all apparently apart from a Hail Mary! pass.

Yes but you also have realise there is was/is a "special" relationship between Aussie and the UK which allowed this, the UK was seen as the "homeland" and the doctors etc were taking locum positions, as it gave good experience they were taking back to Aussie, they were taking "gap" years etc, the they always intended for the most part to go home to Aussie at some point.

this is not the same as if happening in Thailand with farangs, they are hoping to set up permanently in a lot of cases..

[VegasVic]

You left out over 2 million work visas issued in the U.S. and hundreds of thousands of educational visas, and most of them find legal employment in the U.S. without being a citizen or green card holder There is no need to show your ignorance on this matter, the OP asked a very good question and the answer is that Thailand is still very much a "closed society" where foreigners LEGALLY in the country have very few options for employment, such is not the case in the U.S. where anyone legally in the country can seek whatever employment they choose Personally I can't imagine why anyone would seek employment in Thailand with the pitiful wages even college graduates make here, just make, save and invest the money you earn in your home country and in a few years you can enjoy an early retirement in the LOS

Yes those pitiful wages I have earned in thailand over the last 13 years are nearly 30 % above the wages being paid for a comparable position in both the US and UK and less tax as well to boot

So I have no problem working for pitiful wages in Thailand and long may it continue

Yes indeed those pitiful wages, if you bother to take the time to actually fact check you will find that on average Thais make 1/10th the wages for the same job as their American counterpart, and that is across the board from non skilled labor to skilled labor to college graduates up to advanced degrees The cost of living in Thailand is 30-50% of that of the U.S.(depending on where in Thailand one resides), so why would anyone work for 1/10th the wage just so they can live 50% cheaper??? Once again I come back to my sound advice to the OP, make, save and invest your money in the U.S., E.U. Australia or wherever you are and then enjoy an early retirement in the LOS alt=thumbsup.gif pagespeed_url_hash=1443177670 width=25 height=19>

This maybe so...but the topic under discussion has nothing to do with what an average Thai makes, its to do with farangs working in Thailand...and as stated I dont and would not work for a 1/10 of the wage of the preveiling international rates for what I do, just so I could live in Thailand.

the 30% I mentioned doesnt include a "perceived" cost of cheaper living expenses in Thailand, which IMHO after 13 years here are not much cheaper anyway, if you live a life in Thailand which is similar to what your used to in farangland,

if you want to join the mamma noodle/35m condo brigade/motocy brigade then yes of course it will be cheaper, but this is no different to living in the US and living in a trailer park

everyone to their own I guess

You really are a clueless wonder! Nowhere do I say what an "average Thai" makes, I clearly state that "on average Thais make 1/10 the wage of their American counterpart" in some cases it might be 1/8 in other cases it might be 1/15th, and this is true for those making minimum wage right up to those with advanced degrees Is it possible that you have been over in Thailand for so long that English is your second language now? In any event I come back to my premise in answering what the OP was asking, and that is why would anyone come to Thailand to seek employment at 1/10th the wage they could make back home when the living costs on average are on only about 1/2 of what they are back home Just save and invest your income back in the states or wherever you are from and the retire early to Thailand and enjoy a very comfortable retirement

[Soutpeel]

You really are a clueless wonder! Nowhere do I say what an "average Thai" makes, I clearly state that "on average Thais make 1/10 the wage of their American counterpart" in some cases it might be 1/8 in other cases it might be 1/15th, and this is true for those making minimum wage right up to those with advanced degrees Is it possible that you have been over in Thailand for so long that English is your second language now? In any event I come back to my premise in answering what the OP was asking, and that is why would anyone come to Thailand to seek employment at 1/10th the wage they could make back home when the living costs on average are on only about 1/2 of what they are back home Just save and invest your income back in the states or wherever you are from and the retire early to Thailand and enjoy a very comfortable retirement

One could suggest your the clueless one, you keep banging on about what the "on average Thai" makes, which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic under discussion....which is "Farangs finding employment in Thailand", Not what the "on average thai" makes versus their counterpart in the Land "O" free"

[steveromagnino]

I clearly state that "on average Thais make 1/10 the wage of their American counterpart" in some cases it might be 1/8 in other cases it might be 1/15th, and this is true for those making minimum wage right up to those with advanced degrees Is it possible that you have been over in Thailand for so long that English is your second language now? In any event I come back to my premise in answering what the OP was asking, and that is why would anyone come to Thailand to seek employment at 1/10th the wage they could make back home when the living costs on average are on only about 1/2 of what they are back home

While it may be true on average to consider 1/10th, I would say that Bangkok management wages vs. USA senior management are closer to perhaps 1/4 - 1/2 depending on the role. Speaking from personal experience (as I have always earned a totally Thai salary rather than an expat package) I know that every senior exec in my company now (and companies I worked for in the past) is earning within the ballpark of what they would earn in a similarly sized mid level company in a 2nd tier city in USA other than arguably the CEO (exec management around $100 - $200k USD per year; senior management around $60k - $90k USD per year; junior management $15k - $75k per year etc etc). This is quite on par with jobs outside my company, and in fact when I am approached to change jobs or in discussions recruiting new staff, I am fairly sure these numbers are quite typical for a "decent standard" Thai company (i.e. subsidiary of an MNC, Thai listed company, decent size Thai company). No doubt wages are less if you are working outside the CBD in some tinpot little organization in Nakhon Nowhere. There is definitely a difficulty in pulling really decent New York/LA/SF level salaries however, hence why I'd say it's 1/4 - 1/2 maybe on average for the type of job a foreigner could do.

So for someone like the OP looking to move to work here, there are decent paying jobs out there, loads of them in some industries (PR, advertising, finance, property, construction, etc), but they tend to require or look at a decent work record; a decent academic record....and you need the connections to land a job or find out about a job here - made a whole lot easier if you are here already.

The best jobs are not going to be advertised, so you need links with recruitment agencies, and to closely follow the firms you want to work for. The fact you are not a Thai (and resulting need to do work permit etc) are not a deal breaker, however proving your worth here is more difficult. It's well known that Thailand is a major 'loser magnet' economy - there are some real dregs out there working here for a pittance simply to hang out at Nana Plaza. You can forget that whole aspect of life here if you are serious about working here. There are also some very very smart people here too from around the world (plenty from Japan, Singapore, HK, Australia, etc) so you need to be hanging around the right people to some degree - here it's know who, not know how that matters most, at least to get in the door.

Although I have only lived some of my life in USA, I am unsure that I would be financially better over in USA compared to here, I doubt it simply as I am a person of simple tastes; if you want to live like an American(eating steak daily, driving a BMW 5 series etc etc) in Thailand, then the equation won't work at all because it will cost you more to live here, and you'll earn less, on that I agree.

I am not entirely sure nor do I agree that Thai bosses are tyrants any more than any other nationality, at least not in an 'international standard' company - certainly the ownership can result in more owner interference and less oversight than a US firm - but there are ways to work around almost every aspect of the workplace. In general, I can say I find the work environment to be pretty relaxed and enjoyable; my staff are willing to work far harder than their American counterparts, but certain aspects of managing them is required to ensure they are kept happy, for want of a better word.

Edited January 13, 2014 by steveromagnino

[DaraRai]

Thank you for all of the posts and advice in this forum. I just want to point out, though, that I'm not trying to live in Thailand because of the bars or that lifestyle at all; I'm not even male. As for academics, I'd say that I attended a university with rather good standing where I majored in economics and went on to some marketing and analytic work. For those who posted about the salaries and lifestyle afforded by working in Thailand, I respect your advice, but I really want insight more along the lines of whether it's common or relatively possible to gain a good position within a company in Thailand, be it an international one or a Thai one.

[Tomtomtom69]

The very last thing in the world i would want to do with my life, is to be employed by a Thai company. They seem to have little sense of how to treat an employee, how to pay fair wages, how to create long term relationships, how to offer great customer service, etc. etc. Life is short. Why on earth would a foreigner with options, want to go to work for a company that puts you in that position? More than likely, the only reason Thai people work for Thai companies, is that they have no other choices. I know Thai people who work for foreign companies, and they tell me all of those aspects are better, and more favorable, than with a home grown firm. So, think long and hard about a decision like this. Or try to gain employment with a multinational firm, that has some idea about how businesses around the world operate, and treat their employees.

I know what you mean. Until recently I was one of those suckers working for a large Thai firm. Needless to say the experience sucked with all sorts of little cultural nuisances that got in the way rather than getting the job done. So glad I'm no longer with that company. From now on only international companies with international managers for me!