The key to why most people who lose weight fail to maintain the weight loss

[Jingthing]

Because it is REALLY REALLY HARD.

In my view, this is even more important than how to lose weight.

Most people can lose weight, even large amounts of weight.

Your typical obese adult has done so, often SEVERAL times. (Yes, that yoyo pattern is not good.)

Most people who do lose weight (doesn't need to mean losing to the point of normal weight, just any major chunk of weight) fail to keep the weight off in the long term.

Basically, keeping off lost weight is definitely MUCH HARDER (as it's a lifetime struggle) than just the LOSING of the weight.

Here is the core of why that is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e26JKMpSNSo

This is something I have understood at a gut level for a long time but the video says it so clearly.

Once you have become fat, certainly obese, not sure about overweight, no matter what your current body weight, you are basically a fat person INSIDE. You are not the same as a person who has never been fat and you never will be. This is very important to understand to have ANY hope of long term success. Losing weight does not transform you into exactly the same as an actual thin person.

So if you lose a chunk of weight, or even lose to normal weight, basically you can't ever just RELAX about it. You've got a struggle on your hands just to maintain that weight loss chunk, for life, and yes the vast majority do fail at that.

In my view, it's helpful to know this TRUTH. Without knowing it, the typical reaction is to think you can just act as if you're naturally at your new weight.

[Gsxrnz]

JT - I lost 30% bodyweight at age 35 and kept it off for 18 years. That video is no news to me. To paraphrase Julia Roberts from "Notting Hill": "I've been on a constant diet since I was 35, I've been hungry for 18 years".

In the same way that those who are prone to get drunk easier than somebody else need to drink less, those that are prone to gain weight more than somebody else need to eat less. It ain't rocket science.

Right now I'm starving. It's my usual indulgence day for a great big mother of all mothers English Fried Breakfast - my weekly food treat for myself. But I weighed in 500 grams under my trigger weight this morning, so it's 2 weet-bix and no sugar for me, and that will be it until tomorrow. My trigger weight is what sends me into a tailspin and have had the same weight (or less) for those 18 years. I know that in 2 days I'll be 1kg below my trigger weight and can start to eat what has become my norm.

I could say "oh what the hell" and cook myself that huge breakfast, but do that 5 or 6 times and suddenly I'm 2kg over my trigger weight, depressed, uncomfortable, ashamed of myself, and will probably decide to increase my trigger weight in my mind. And then in a month I'm buying clothes one size up, and then a month later I'm 2 sizes up and spiralling down a miserable road.

IMHO the only way to lose weight and keep it off is to learn the art of self control. Not saying it's easy, but in time it becomes normal.

[Jingthing]

That's right. It's very hard. It's a lifetime thing. Congratulations on being among the small percentage of people who have achieved long term weight loss maintenance success! 18 year definitely makes the cut. That is no small thing.

I think it's good for people to know the harsh truth about the nature of this problem. A while back I posted an article about a famous American, Governor Huckabee who publicly lost a lot of weight and then publicly gained it back and possibly more. (I hate the man's politics but feel compassion for his weight struggles.) He is a visible classic example of MOST of us who have been there, done that. What mistakes did he make? Basically, he relaxed. This is the normal human thing to do. But fat people who lose weight can't be so "normal" and hope to keep it off.

[Gsxrnz]

Yeah, but "normal" is a very subjective state. What was normal for me then is not what normal is for me now. My normal has been recalibrated and now I don't think of it as being abnormal/unusual.

Every now and then I visualise all the excess food that I used to eat during a week sitting on a table. It was literally enough to feed a family of three for a week, and that's no joke.

I said earlier that I always feel hungry - that may have been an oversimplification. It's simply a different way of feeling than I used to have. If I overeat (which I do occasionally), I feel so damned physically uncomfortable that it scares me. And while it may be a little uncomfortable having that "hunger" bug telling you to have a snack because your body thinks you're hungry, having an enlarged belly through overeating is a damn site worse.

The hunger bug goes away when you eventually eat something in line with your regimen. That bloated uncomfortable feeling always stays with me for a full 24 hours and coincidentally, my bowels shut down in sympathy which makes it worse. My body tells me that if I have a choice of feeling a little hungry or very uncomfortable, the best option is to feel hungry - and that feeling is normal. Maybe it's not even "hunger" in the true sense, maybe it's how those that were never fat always feel?

[robblok]

JT - I lost 30% bodyweight at age 35 and kept it off for 18 years. That video is no news to me. To paraphrase Julia Roberts from "Notting Hill": "I've been on a constant diet since I was 35, I've been hungry for 18 years".

In the same way that those who are prone to get drunk easier than somebody else need to drink less, those that are prone to gain weight more than somebody else need to eat less. It ain't rocket science.

Right now I'm starving. It's my usual indulgence day for a great big mother of all mothers English Fried Breakfast - my weekly food treat for myself. But I weighed in 500 grams under my trigger weight this morning, so it's 2 weet-bix and no sugar for me, and that will be it until tomorrow. My trigger weight is what sends me into a tailspin and have had the same weight (or less) for those 18 years. I know that in 2 days I'll be 1kg below my trigger weight and can start to eat what has become my norm.

I could say "oh what the hell" and cook myself that huge breakfast, but do that 5 or 6 times and suddenly I'm 2kg over my trigger weight, depressed, uncomfortable, ashamed of myself, and will probably decide to increase my trigger weight in my mind. And then in a month I'm buying clothes one size up, and then a month later I'm 2 sizes up and spiralling down a miserable road.

IMHO the only way to lose weight and keep it off is to learn the art of self control. Not saying it's easy, but in time it becomes normal.

Yes, that is the whole point self control. I am in the same way as you I am on great weight now in super shape. But at a cost but it becomes normal for me. The longer you keep it the easier it gets.

There might be a small percentage of people who can do it, but I hear of more of those success stories probably because those are people willing to do what it takes instead of blaming outside forces.

I can't say that maintaining this weight makes me feel hungry... does not mean I could not easily eat more without feeling full. It is normal.

Checking weight is a normal routine for me now you got trigger weights and such to keep on program.

[Gsxrnz]

JT - I lost 30% bodyweight at age 35 and kept it off for 18 years. That video is no news to me. To paraphrase Julia Roberts from "Notting Hill": "I've been on a constant diet since I was 35, I've been hungry for 18 years".

In the same way that those who are prone to get drunk easier than somebody else need to drink less, those that are prone to gain weight more than somebody else need to eat less. It ain't rocket science.

Right now I'm starving. It's my usual indulgence day for a great big mother of all mothers English Fried Breakfast - my weekly food treat for myself. But I weighed in 500 grams under my trigger weight this morning, so it's 2 weet-bix and no sugar for me, and that will be it until tomorrow. My trigger weight is what sends me into a tailspin and have had the same weight (or less) for those 18 years. I know that in 2 days I'll be 1kg below my trigger weight and can start to eat what has become my norm.

I could say "oh what the hell" and cook myself that huge breakfast, but do that 5 or 6 times and suddenly I'm 2kg over my trigger weight, depressed, uncomfortable, ashamed of myself, and will probably decide to increase my trigger weight in my mind. And then in a month I'm buying clothes one size up, and then a month later I'm 2 sizes up and spiralling down a miserable road.

IMHO the only way to lose weight and keep it off is to learn the art of self control. Not saying it's easy, but in time it becomes normal.

Yes, that is the whole point self control. I am in the same way as you I am on great weight now in super shape. But at a cost but it becomes normal for me. The longer you keep it the easier it gets.

There might be a small percentage of people who can do it, but I hear of more of those success stories probably because those are people willing to do what it takes instead of blaming outside forces.

I can't say that maintaining this weight makes me feel hungry... does not mean I could not easily eat more without feeling full. It is normal.

Checking weight is a normal routine for me now you got trigger weights and such to keep on program.

Good on you - yes eventually what we're referring to as self control just becomes accepted. The trigger weight and frequent weighing is important. I always know my weight and take action accordingly. Even simple things make a difference. If I feel I'm half a kilo up on where I want to be or approaching that trigger weight, I'll only add half a teaspoon of sugar to my coffee instead of a whole, or scramble two eggs instead of three.

It's not as though the sacrifices are that dramatic as a rule. Even the word "sacrifice" is a bad choice of word because that implies one is giving up something. It doesn't feel like that, it just feels like common sense - you're near your trigger weight, you don't want to have to starve for two days to compensate when you break the barrier, so do a few little modifications for two days and hey, you lost half a kilo instead of gaining it.

[robblok]

I got a original view, maybe minding what you eat is normal and not being able to eat all you want is normal. In our current environment there is so much bad food about so restriction seems normal. I can say for a fact when i was younger there was a lot less "bad" food available and people ate more of the normal food (home prepared meals)

The success stories i hear are all about restricting certain kind of foods, maybe the expectation created by the food marketing machine that we can always eat the nice things is totally wrong and that moderation is the way to go.

[robblok]

JT - I lost 30% bodyweight at age 35 and kept it off for 18 years. That video is no news to me. To paraphrase Julia Roberts from "Notting Hill": "I've been on a constant diet since I was 35, I've been hungry for 18 years".

In the same way that those who are prone to get drunk easier than somebody else need to drink less, those that are prone to gain weight more than somebody else need to eat less. It ain't rocket science.

Right now I'm starving. It's my usual indulgence day for a great big mother of all mothers English Fried Breakfast - my weekly food treat for myself. But I weighed in 500 grams under my trigger weight this morning, so it's 2 weet-bix and no sugar for me, and that will be it until tomorrow. My trigger weight is what sends me into a tailspin and have had the same weight (or less) for those 18 years. I know that in 2 days I'll be 1kg below my trigger weight and can start to eat what has become my norm.

I could say "oh what the hell" and cook myself that huge breakfast, but do that 5 or 6 times and suddenly I'm 2kg over my trigger weight, depressed, uncomfortable, ashamed of myself, and will probably decide to increase my trigger weight in my mind. And then in a month I'm buying clothes one size up, and then a month later I'm 2 sizes up and spiralling down a miserable road.

IMHO the only way to lose weight and keep it off is to learn the art of self control. Not saying it's easy, but in time it becomes normal.

Yes, that is the whole point self control. I am in the same way as you I am on great weight now in super shape. But at a cost but it becomes normal for me. The longer you keep it the easier it gets.

There might be a small percentage of people who can do it, but I hear of more of those success stories probably because those are people willing to do what it takes instead of blaming outside forces.

I can't say that maintaining this weight makes me feel hungry... does not mean I could not easily eat more without feeling full. It is normal.

Checking weight is a normal routine for me now you got trigger weights and such to keep on program.

Good on you - yes eventually what we're referring to as self control just becomes accepted. The trigger weight and frequent weighing is important. I always know my weight and take action accordingly. Even simple things make a difference. If I feel I'm half a kilo up on where I want to be or approaching that trigger weight, I'll only add half a teaspoon of sugar to my coffee instead of a whole, or scramble two eggs instead of three.

It's not as though the sacrifices are that dramatic as a rule. Even the word "sacrifice" is a bad choice of word because that implies one is giving up something. It doesn't feel like that, it just feels like common sense - you're near your trigger weight, you don't want to have to starve for two days to compensate when you break the barrier, so do a few little modifications for two days and hey, you lost half a kilo instead of gaining it.

Correct if you work with stuff as trigger weight small changes can get you back on track so you don't need to do too much later on. I also always know my weight and if its up or down.. and usually the reason of it being up too (more salts or carbs or something out of the ordinary).

In the end it becomes easier and not that hard, once you are there its all about making the right choices. I called it sacrifice that might have been wrong but if you compare it to people who eat what they want it is. But for us its the norm and not that hard anymore.

Do you feel strengthened if you look back at old pics of the "fat" you.. i know that if i see those pics they only strengthen my resolve.

Like so many things it is a lifestyle change and add some sports in there for health. It just requires a permanent change.

[robblok]

JT,

Maybe we should look at it like this those normal thin persons know how to do it right and require no change its automatic that they make the right choices. We the ones that become fat did something wrong and got used to it. So for us it requires a concient change while they subconsciously do it right.

Or are you saying that they are wired differently and can do all the things a obese person did without getting fat ?

In one of the BBC documentaries they showed that some kids would refuse the cake while others did not and took it all the time when offered.

While i don't doubt there is a difference in metabolic rate between individuals it seems that thin people are more in tune with their rate and making more of the right choices. Maybe obese have 2 things going against them, a worse metabolic rate and the wrong food choices.

If so then yes it will always require an effort that others do automatically.

When younger I robbed the cookie jar while my thin brother did not.. he did not have that urge.

But i must say when younger there was a lot less bad stuff available (village in the Netherlands not too much out eat opportunities neither a culture to do so and as a kid you don't have much money). Things went really wrong once i worked in Amsterdam and I bought my lunches instead of preparing them myself.. so much more temptation (that others had an easier time saying no to)

[Jingthing]

The video says quite clearly what I was trying to say. If not clear and confused by my text: PLEASE WATCH AGAIN.

Here is an article which I think expands on and relates directly to the clear topic in the video. The rhetoric of not trying because it is so hard I personally do NOT agree with, but I DO agree with the concept which I think is very similar to the video. It really is SUPER HARD for most fat people to maintain weight loss. This text suggests it's even harder than suggested in the video; I think it probably SOMETIMES is.

I doubt there are very many people in the history of the world who went from obesity to normal weight and kept that way without extraordinary vigilance, I question whether all or most actually needed to starve themselves. But the concept is similar.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2011/12/29/the_new_york_times_magazine_the_fat_trap_and_the_impossibility_of_lasting_weight_loss.html

If the ratio of successful to wannabe losers doesn’t underscore the extreme difficulty of lasting weight loss, the regimen of a National Weight Control Registry member ought to do it. Parker-Pope shadows a 66-year-old female registry member who has kept off 135 pounds for five years. This woman says that she is “always aware of food,” weighs herself every morning, weighs all her food, writes down everything she eats, counts every calorie and gram of protein that passes her lips, exercises from 100 to 120 minutes six or seven days a week, calculates exactly how many calories she burns during exercise, and avoids junk food, bread, pasta, and dairy.

Parker-Pope remarks that these efforts sound exhausting, but she skirts around the fact that they somewhat resemble the symptoms of an eating disorder. Similarly disturbing are descriptions of extreme weight-loss studies in which participants were allowed to consume only 500 calories a day. (Parker-Pope makes it sound unexpected that researchers found signs that the participants’ “bodies were acting as if they were starving”—but they were, in fact, consuming a small fraction of the calories than the average human being needs to live, which is pretty much the definition of starving.)

Fat has become so deeply pathologized in our society that behaviors considered indicators of anorexia or orthorexia when performed by thin people are endorsed by the medical establishment when performed by fat people. But, as Parker-Pope notes, it’s only the extremely “hypervigilant”—the word used by another National Weight Control who writes down everything she eats and says she can never “go back to ‘normal’ ”—who are capable of keeping weight off. As Parker-Pope emphasizes in “The Fat Trap,” researchers have discovered that genetics and hormonal changes make lasting weight loss impossible for the vast majority of fat people.

[robblok]

Oh the setpoint theory, to be honest it has shown that you will get a new setpoint so its not like that guy says (or at least not everyone is agreeing) I can tell you that i feel like i got a new setpoint. Does not mean i can do what i want but the weight is constant around that point. That is kinda what a setpoint is.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/guide/ideal-weight-or-happy-weight

[Jingthing]

It was about more than set points. It's in the video. You don't need to agree.

On the other hand, anyone who asserts a person can maintain a significant weight loss long term without extraordinary vigilance would be obviously not credible.

The fail rates statistics make that quite clear. If it was easier. the fail rates would not be massively high.

[robblok]

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/set-points-settling-points-and-bodyweight-regulation-part-1.html

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ije/si/845921/cfp/ (even more interesting to see what that will give)

I have often read about set points and the opinions are dived about them. Some say they can be changed others say they cant.

[Jingthing]

It's not only about set points but if it serves a purpose to not get that, be my guest.

Maybe I'll repeat this part of the other link here, for emphasis:

Again, weight loss VERY doable by the majority of fat people who try, long term maintenance of weight loss -- still doable BUT much harder and much more RARE.

But, as Parker-Pope notes, it’s only the extremely “hypervigilant”—the word used by another National Weight Control who writes down everything she eats and says she can never “go back to ‘normal’ ”—who are capable of keeping weight off. As Parker-Pope emphasizes in “The Fat Trap,” researchers have discovered that genetics and hormonal changes make lasting weight loss impossible for the vast majority of fat people.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2011/12/29/the_new_york_times_magazine_the_fat_trap_and_the_impossibility_of_lasting_weight_loss.html

[robblok]

It was about more than set points. It's in the video. You don't need to agree.

On the other hand, anyone who asserts a person can maintain a significant weight loss long term without extraordinary vigilance would be obviously not credible.

The fail rates statistics make that quite clear. If it was easier. the fail rates would not be massively high.

I agree that it takes some effort.. but just like stopping with smoking it gets easier the longer you do it.

I actually know more people who kept the weight off then who got it back.

Maybe i just know super humans, or my friends are a bit more driven then others.

But it never is without effort. (how minor that effort might be) as the other poster stated.. just checking weight and eating a bit less if you get too close to a weight.

[Jingthing]

Your anecdotes are not meaningful to obesity researchers who look at large populations. I do not value anecdotes as being anything other than anecdotes. I totally reject pushing a meme that weight loss maintenance is not that hard, and formerly fat people can act the same as people who were never fat and actual credible experts support my POV. Not bar stool stuff. I think it is more helpful that fat people know the TRUTH about the degree of their lifetime challenge, rather than a sugar coating.

[robblok]

JT check your video.. its a short one no more as 2 minutes and only about set point.

[robblok]

Your anecdotes are not meaningful to obesity researchers who look at large populations. I do not value anecdotes as being anything other than anecdotes.

The fact is you don't value anything that says it can be done. You love blaming outside stuff all the time.

I come with research proof that says that set points are still debated if you cant get them down.

You seem to always want to stress the impossibility of things .. seems like a real negative mindset. Everyone here on the forum who tells about their success are one offs .. Must be an awful one offs here.

Maybe the others just don't try hard enough.

That lady that writes down what she eat.. is it extreme.. maybe but it helps. Us who weigh themselves and eat less when we reach a weight.. it works..

Thing is they all call it too much effort, while I would not call it much effort at all to stay in health.

Just weighing yourself... wow what an effort.. correcting your food when you see your going up.

[Jingthing]

The fact is you don't value anything that says it can be done. You love blaming outside stuff all the time.

...

I would like to ask that you stop insulting me and trying to make this so personal, in a way its actually a kind of BULLYING.

I never said it can't be done or that people shouldn't try. In fact I EXPLICITLY said the opposite. I said it is very hard and I supported credible sources about the reasons. You don't have to agree of course, not saying that you do.

[robblok]

The fact is you don't value anything that says it can be done. You love blaming outside stuff all the time.

I would like to ask that you stop insulting me, I am getting really sick it, and trying to make this so personal. I never said it can't be done or that people shouldn't try. In fact I EXPLICITLY said the opposite. I said it is very hard and I supported credible sources about the reasons. You don't have to agree of course, not saying that you do.

I am not insulting you at all you just take it that way. you are also editing quotes of me and that is against regulations.

Maybe people should learn from those who do keep the weight off and see that it takes effort. Because that is what they all have in common. From the lady who writes it all down to many others. Effort.. not expecting someone else to solve your problem.

In Coldarodo people stay more on healthy weight because they are forced to exercise (kids) again effort

http://healthland.time.com/2013/08/16/the-good-and-bad-news-about-obesity-f-as-in-fat-obesity-is-no-longer-rising-but-its-more-dangerous-than-ever/

[singa-traz]

Great. Finally, we found it. The scientific justification that can exonerate overweight/obese for being accountable for their situation.

"It's not that I don't want to do anything about it ... but the PHD guy told us, it's really really hard ... and, I'm not superman."

From the video, I actually see the positive side, which is that the newly "reduced weight individual" is actually in a better situation, either:

• he eat 20% less ... and save money ... maybe ordering on the kids menu. You know, smaller size?
• or he eat 10% less (yes, save a bit less), but exercice 10% more (which will increase his fitness and overall health situation).

That really good news for me, I should be saving soon 20% on food.

But guest what, I had another plan ... I just burned 850 kcal by running 10km this morning.

What's your F$%#$ plan?

[Jingthing]

I am not insulting you at all you just take it that way. you are also editing quotes of me and that is against regulations.

...

You are very much insulting me. You have done this countless times on the fat forum often much worse than this example. You obviously disagree with my POV, fine, and I think you actually don't even understand it (perhaps a language barrier), but taking it to the character assassination level I think is too much.

Also, I would like to inform you I have broken no rules with my edits. SNIPPETS unless used maliciously to change meaning within the snippets are not only allowed but encouraged. Many people don't know that. You see if everyone always included all posts, it would waste so much space. There is no need to show an entire post when you are only replying to the INCLUDED part of it. Cheers.

[robblok]

I am not insulting you at all you just take it that way. you are also editing quotes of me and that is against regulations.

...

You are very much insulting me. You have done this countless times on the fat forum. You obviously disagree with my POV and I think you actually don't even understand it (perhaps a language barrier).

I would like to inform you I have broken no rules with my edits. SNIPPETS unless used maliciously to change meaning within the snippets are not only allowed but encouraged. Many people don't know that. You see if everyone always included all posts, it would waste so much space. There is no need to show an entire post when you are only replying to the INCLUDED part of it. Cheers.

It is wong if it takes a post out of context and that is what you always do with my posts.

I disagree with your POV but you seem to think that anyone disagreeing with your POV is bullying you. Bringing counter arguments is bullying.

Shooting down other arguments or not even going into them.. that is your style.

[Jingthing]

I disagree there was a problem with my edits. I was responding to that part. That is in my opinion totally allowed.

Disagreeing isn't bullying. Insulting and character assassination (stuff like -- you're always looking for excuses) over a long pattern of many months is bullying. By constantly pouring dirt on my character, that is an attempt to encourage other people to not take the points I make seriously because they are supposedly motivated by a character flaw that you accuse me of. This shouldn't be about anyone's alleged character flaws. You present yourself as the Strong Man and your attacks have a pattern of calling me a weak man, a forum version of muscle guy kicking sand at a weaker man on the beach. Also you have gained some allies who sometimes support you in the character attacks. If that isn't bullying, online style, I don't know what is.

[Naam]

singa-traz

I just burned 850 kcal by running 10km this morning.

What's your F$%#$ plan?

my plan for the mornings hardly ever changes

-3 soft boiled eggs,

-1 slice of roasted (not toasted) whole grain bread,

-small portion cheese with a small portion of salami,

-never any F$%#$ 10km run.

[Naam]

SNIPPETS unless used maliciously to change meaning within the snippets are not only allowed but encouraged.

JT is right!

[robblok]

SNIPPETS unless used maliciously to change meaning within the snippets are not only allowed but encouraged.

JT is right!

[robblok]

singa-traz

I just burned 850 kcal by running 10km this morning.

What's your F$%#$ plan?

my plan for the mornings hardly ever changes

-3 soft boiled eggs,

-1 slice of roasted (not toasted) whole grain bread,

-small portion cheese with a small portion of salami,

-never any F$%#$ 10km run.

I would not be running 10km either.. id die.. but if it helps him and he likes it why not.

I like lifting heavy ass weights and acting like im strong.

I like your breakfast.

[up-country_sinclair]

A guaranteed three step plan to maintain weight loss:

1. Eat less than you did when you were fat.

2. Exercise more than when you were fat.

3. Repeat daily.

[robblok]

Great. Finally, we found it. The scientific justification that can exonerate overweight/obese for being accountable for their situation.

"It's not that I don't want to do anything about it ... but the PHD guy told us, it's really really hard ... and, I'm not superman."

From the video, I actually see the positive side, which is that the newly "reduced weight individual" is actually in a better situation, either:

• he eat 20% less ... and save money ... maybe ordering on the kids menu. You know, smaller size?
• or he eat 10% less (yes, save a bit less), but exercice 10% more (which will increase his fitness and overall health situation).

That really good news for me, I should be saving soon 20% on food.

But guest what, I had another plan ... I just burned 850 kcal by running 10km this morning.

What's your F$%#$ plan?

When i was in weight loss mode i did 10km rows on my rowing machine... now that i gotten there I don't need that amount of rowing. I do less.

Thing is maintaining weight loss is impossible if you don't check yourself regularly. I really don't understand that they call that extreme. They always taught me to measure / check is to know, not only for weight but everything. If measuring is already too much effort then i wonder what do people expect the effort to be.

What kind of effort should it be then ?. I would say 1 hour of exercise every day and a starvation diet is extreme effort. But writing stuff down is not.